Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

[HalfTangible]

They're not 'Tomb Kings in SPAAAAAACE'

They're 'Metal Tomb Kings with Ultrarifles IN SPAAAAAAAACE'!

=D

....

OW! Who threw that?!

EDIT: On a more serious note, something just occured to me. The void dragon, beneath Mars. it's a C'Tan god, right? And under the new fluff, the C'Tan are slaves to the necrons. Is it possible that it's trying to break free of Necron control by transferring itself to human hands, who regard it as their Omnissiah?

[Shadow Lord]

Is it possible that the Void Dragon is a C'Tan who managed to escape destruction?

[Squark]

From what I saw of that, the implication is that the Void Dragon on mars is a shard of it that the Necrons have lost, and would very much like to recover.

[deuterio12]

The mindless mission that all Necrons were on was basically really similar to Tyranids...the Necrons were coming to harvest every living thing in the galaxy (yawn).

A quite common misconception, just like the one that necrons are (were?) mindless shambling bots.

The necrons don't want to wipe out every living thing on the galaxy. They want to close the warp and enslave the galaxy to provide a constant stream of delicious living beings to their gods.

Really, what I liked, no, loved on the necron codex was that it dared to go beyond. This is a race whose basic infantry makes even SM run for cover and call for reinforcments. This is a race that can break trough the emperium's defenses all the way to Mars. This is a race that can actualy tell the warp to go f*** itself and close it from reality. This is a race that won the last galactic round of 40k and is coming for the second one. This is a race that actualy deploys fullpower gods into battle instead of mere shards or avatars.

But now? You can't even call them tomb kings in space They become freaking robot eldars. Fractured empire trying to regain their previous glory and have shards of their gods, allying with other races when needed, and their suposed elite infantry has just average armor? Been there, done that.

That's of course not mentioning how aparently we'll get a full codex of necrons worshiping SM for how great and mary suastic they are, since it's Matt "necrons are best pony friends with blood angels" Ward writing it.

[Psychotic]

Soooooo.....

My friends and I are having our yearly Apocalypse in the winter. With exception to one or two, there've never been superheavies fielded at this event. Apparently most of my friends are now bringing one. Being a relatively poor college student who can't afford to drop $100+ dollars on a model that I'll field maybe once a year, what can I do?

[Tren]

The necrons don't want to wipe out every living thing on the galaxy. They want to close the warp and enslave the galaxy to provide a constant stream of delicious living beings to their gods.

I, and I imagine most people, fail to see a substantive difference between "devour all biomass forever" and "devour all souls forever". They were a largely faceless force, bent effectively on total annihilation. They were robot space zombies.

"Really, what I liked, no, loved on the necron codex was that it dared to go beyond...

Firstly, I don't see how much of that is any different given the new changes in fluff. They're still the most technologically advanced race in the galaxy, with a lot of unique and impressive feats to their name in the background. It's also worth noting that every faction's background is full of puffery, and makes them out to be the most coolestest and super-amazing faction. Clearly for balance reasons though, no single faction is ever as cool and super amazing as their own fluff makes them out to be. If you're getting upset that a handful of Necron warriors can't steamroll a tactical squad, I think you're expectations are out of touch with reality.

This is a race that actualy deploys fullpower gods into battle instead of mere shards or avatars."

I also don't think you could call the 3rd edition C'tan "fullpower gods". Their power level, while fairy impressive in game terms, is a far cry from reality-bending star-eating super-being gods.

But now? You can't even call them tomb kings in space They become freaking robot eldars. Fractured empire trying to regain their previous glory and have shards of their gods, allying with other races when needed, and their suposed elite infantry has just average armor? Been there, done that.

Eldar is the plural of Eldar. Also, the "former empire in the twilight of it's days" is hardly a unique motif to the Eldar. While we obviously don't have the full details of the fluff yet, they sound reasonably distinct. They're not a race of potent future-seeing psykers on the verge of extinction, plying the depths of space in planet-sized sail boats. The bulk of their race (i.e. warriors and immortals) are effectively mindless and bent to the will of the more sentient overlords (much like Khemri), who sound more concerned with pursuing their own agendas than enacting any species wide renaissance.

Obviously there's some general similarities between the two ancient, technologically advanced rival races, but that's about all the deeper it runs.

Also, their basic infantry (Warriors) have average armor. Their elite infantry (Immortals) have elite armor.

That's of course not mentioning how aparently we'll get a full codex of necrons worshiping SM for how great and mary suastic they are, since it's Matt "necrons are best pony friends with blood angels" Ward writing it.

Honestly, given the new context of intelligent and individualistic Lords who in some cases respect battefield valor, this no longer sounds like a complete ass-pull that completely disregards the background of the two factions.

**

Soooooo.....

My friends and I are having our yearly Apocalypse in the winter. With exception to one or two, there've never been superheavies fielded at this event. Apparently most of my friends are now bringing one. Being a relatively poor college student who can't afford to drop $100+ dollars on a model that I'll field maybe once a year, what can I do?

Superheavies aren't really imbalanced, its Destroyer weapons that tend to cramp people's fun. I'd recommend making sure both sides have an approximate number of D weapons to help keep it balanced. As far as your own shiny gribblies, are there any formations that strike your fancy? If not, just remember that in Apocalypse you can load your list with as many super-elite killy units as you want. Often times lots loading up on every day cool stuff out of a codex--in great amounts-- is just as effective as a super-heavy.

[FireJustice]

Soooooo.....

My friends and I are having our yearly Apocalypse in the winter. With exception to one or two, there've never been superheavies fielded at this event. Apparently most of my friends are now bringing one. Being a relatively poor college student who can't afford to drop $100+ dollars on a model that I'll field maybe once a year, what can I do?

There's some apocalypse datasheets that you can scratch build with zero to little cost.

I can think off Chaos DoomDay Device and Stompas as examples people here use

[Ricky S]

Soooooo.....

My friends and I are having our yearly Apocalypse in the winter. With exception to one or two, there've never been superheavies fielded at this event. Apparently most of my friends are now bringing one. Being a relatively poor college student who can't afford to drop $100+ dollars on a model that I'll field maybe once a year, what can I do?

You dont need super heavies to play though. It can be fun but the various datasheets for space marine companies and death wings etc are really fun to play as well.

You could also build your own super heavy and if your friends are too fussy you could use something like a transformer to be a titan. Or build one out of lego.

A friend of mine actully built a titan out of paper mache. It had a wire frame and he drew a smiley face on it. It looked ridiculous but was a lot more scary when it took out a unit of 20 hammernators in one shot.

[Penguinizer]

I find that you can get some pretty good looking super-heavies with enough time and effort. I recommend looking up what other people have built and using it for ideas.

[deuterio12]

I, and I imagine most people, fail to see a substantive difference between "devour all biomass forever" and "devour all souls forever". They were a largely faceless force, bent effectively on total annihilation. They were robot space zombies.

Again go read the actual codex, because they actualy wanted to build a galaxy-spanning empire (there's even a wicked cool farseer vision of it) that made sure of a constant supply of souls instead of leveling everything to a wasteland.

Firstly, I don't see how much of that is any different given the new changes in fluff. They're still the most technologically advanced race in the galaxy, with a lot of unique and impressive feats to their name in the background.

Nope, they're now seriously lagging behind. SM are now better at mass producing power armor, SM special IA land raiders are now tougher, and they also now have worst communication than the Tau.

It's also worth noting that every faction's background is full of puffery, and makes them out to be the most coolestest and super-amazing faction. Clearly for balance reasons though, no single faction is ever as cool and super amazing as their own fluff makes them out to be.

SW, BA, and GK.

If you're getting upset that a handful of Necron warriors can't steamroll a tactical squad, I think you're expectations are out of touch with reality.

I would at least expect them to able to hold their own, instead of now needing to relay in overwhelming numbers to get the job done.

I also don't think you could call the 3rd edition C'tan "fullpower gods". Their power level, while fairy impressive in game terms, is a far cry from reality-bending star-eating super-being gods.

This is 40K, gods have a really tough time. The emperor himself was in mortal danger from a nameless warboss.

Eldar is the plural of Eldar. Also, the "former empire in the twilight of it's days" is hardly a unique motif to the Eldar. While we obviously don't have the full details of the fluff yet, they sound reasonably distinct. They're not a race of potent future-seeing psykers on the verge of extinction, plying the depths of space in planet-sized sail boats. The bulk of their race (i.e. warriors and immortals) are effectively mindless and bent to the will of the more sentient overlords (much like Khemri), who sound more concerned with pursuing their own agendas than enacting any species wide renaissance.

Again, robot eldar (which many times are mislead by leaders with their own agenda thank you very much), just heavily focused on heavy number of wraithguards. Which was already in the fluff as well.

I'll bet you that their new "psyker" will in the fluff have some devices that allow them to predict the future.

Also, their basic infantry (Warriors) have average armor. Their elite infantry (Immortals) have elite armor.

You mean, like every other single non-marine faction but IG? Orks have megarmor, tau have crisis suits, eldar have their own power armors, you name it.

[banjo1985]

Thanks for posting the new Necron pictures Zorg, I've been looking forward to their release for ages! I'm undecided on the sculpts, there seems to be a mix of good (the new immortals) and god-awful (flayed ones), but the variety of new units there gives me hope for the new release. Maybe my moth-balled Necrons will now become competitive!

I've never given a crap about fluff, so I'm not too bothered how much Ward changes it, as long as the rules fit in with the power levels of the new codices (Tyranids not withstanding).

As for the new Necrons getting there assess handed to them in CC vs Tactical Squads, it actually looks pretty even. At 12pts each the Necrons will have the advantage of numbers to compensate for poor I, and a 4+ isn't that bad. It's a near pointless comparison anyway, because both those units should be shooting in the midfield, not beating seven bells out of each other in CC.

Really, 4+ armour is fine when you have a 5+ get up and carry on save afterwards. I'm not into mathhammer, but it must be pretty similar to a basic 3+. It's nice to make the Warriors defined from MEQ, with the current codex they're just more expensive, slower, less flexible marines. Necrons are a xenos army, it's good that they've been differentiated. Of the non-marine armies only Tau and Eldar have 4+ across the board, Dark Eldar, Tyranids and Orks are all largely poorer than that. I can't see how Necrons armour is now the same as all the other xenos?

[Winterwind]

Really, 4+ armour is fine when you have a 5+ get up and carry on save afterwards. I'm not into mathhammer, but it must be pretty similar to a basic 3+. It's nice to make the Warriors defined from MEQ, with the current codex they're just more expensive, slower, less flexible marines. Necrons are a xenos army, it's good that they've been differentiated. Of the non-marine armies only Tau and Eldar have 4+ across the board, Dark Eldar, Tyranids and Orks are all largely poorer than that. I can't see how Necrons armour is now the same as all the other xenos?

You don't have to be much into mathhammer to see that a 4+ followed by 5+ is exactly the same as 3+ (don't be so scared of rudimentary math, people - if you just try it, you will find it's really rather simple! ). The latter lets 1/3 through; the former lets 1/2*2/3=1/3 through. Except the Necrons' solution is superior, because it's not completely rendered nil by AP4 or better weapons, and is improved if they stand in 3+ or better cover.
And yeah, I fully agree - 4+ saves are actually a fairly rare thing. Most things have either better or worse. Combines with T4, this gives Necrons a rather unique profile.

I'm kinda worried about the fluff though. See, with all of its sense of foreboding and doom, the many stories hinting at possible aspects of the Necrons without ever spelling them out, and the incredibly horrific images of a Necron-ruled future, I actually considered the old Necron codex to be the best piece of WH40k fluff I've ever read. By a huge margin.
But, not going to comment on that until I've seen the new one.

[Cheesegear]

3+ or better cover.

Fairly certain that without Stealth or other such rules, that stuff doesn't exist.

the many stories hinting at possible aspects of the Necrons without ever spelling them out, and the incredibly horrific images of a Necron-ruled future

Indeed. The best horror is the kind where you don't have a clue what's going on. That's what I like about the Cain series - at least - when Necrons show up, it doesn't particularly matter why they're there. Just that everything's going to die and you should run. Fast.

I hope Ward doesn't ruin it. But I'm prepared for him to do so.

[deuterio12]

You don't have to be much into mathhammer to see that a 4+ followed by 5+ is exactly the same as 3+ (don't be so scared of rudimentary math, people - if you just try it, you will find it's really rather simple! ). The latter lets 1/3 through; the former lets 1/2*2/3=1/3 through. Except the Necrons' solution is superior, because it's not completely rendered nil by AP4 or better weapons, and is improved if they stand in 3+ or better cover.

Actualy, it's worse, because at best you get one chance per model per round, and if the squad is wiped out you don't get it at all.

An actual 3+ or 5++ save can save your model's ass multiple times per round.

And yeah, I fully agree - 4+ saves are actually a fairly rare thing. Most things have either better or worse. Combines with T4, this gives Necrons a rather unique profile.

Speaking of which, I just noticed the new pariahs are basically technologycally inferior terminators. Their inv and armor are both worst and so are their weapons (two-handed relic blade or vanilla power weapon). Also can't shoot anymore. They also lost their ability to punch trough inv saves, which was what made them unique. And they cost the same as hammernators. Sure they can in theory get back up, but they won't because they'll be wiped out in close combat and never got to roll their chance.

So much for "best tech in 40K".

I'm kinda worried about the fluff though. See, with all of its sense of foreboding and doom, the many stories hinting at possible aspects of the Necrons without ever spelling them out, and the incredibly horrific images of a Necron-ruled future, I actually considered the old Necron codex to be the best piece of WH40k fluff I've ever read. By a huge margin.

Now that I can agree with. That's a rather well made description of what makes(made) the necrons unique.

[Ricky S]

Is it true that not even power weapons will get rid of the new we'll be back rule?

[Borgh]

Actualy, it's worse, because at best you get one chance per model per round, and if the squad is wiped out you don't get it at all.

An actual 3+ or 5++ save can save your model's ass multiple times per round.


Speaking of which, I just noticed the new pariahs are basically technologycally inferior terminators. Their inv and armor are both worst and so are their weapons (two-handed relic blade or vanilla power weapon). Also can't shoot anymore. They also lost their ability to punch trough inv saves, which was what made them unique. And they cost the same as hammernators. Sure they can in theory get back up, but they won't because they'll be wiped out in close combat and never got to roll their chance.

So much for "best tech in 40K".


Now that I can agree with. That's a rather well made description of what makes(made) the necrons unique.

sauce for all the rule details? I can only found general descriptions.

[Trixie]

Actualy, it's worse, because at best you get one chance per model per round, and if the squad is wiped out you don't get it at all.

An actual 3+ or 5++ save can save your model's ass multiple times per round.

Actually, in half of the situations it IS better, because taking one save is better than taking save after save from lasgun salvoes until you eventually fail enough of them...

IMHO, Necrons are perfect, though they need their own ATSKNF variant.

[FlyingScanian]

Actually, in half of the situations it IS better, because taking one save is better than taking save after save from lasgun salvoes until you eventually fail enough of them...

IMHO, Necrons are perfect, though they need their own ATSKNF variant.

Also, did someone say AP3 weapons? Marines are moderately fried, Necrons will still have that 5+...

(yeah, yeah, cover etc... in which case the necrons would have it just as well as the Marines, only with an additional 5+ insurance)

[Trixie]

Fairly certain that without Stealth or other such rules, that stuff doesn't exist.

3+ cover?

How about going to ground or turbo-boosting? No special rules needed...

[Cheesegear]

How about going to ground or turbo-boosting? No special rules needed...

Going to ground is not the best move in the world. In fact I've never voluntarily done it in my life. And I've only ever seen it done voluntarily by Gretchin.

Turbo Boosting is alright. But I hardly think the majority of Necrons are going to have that ability.

Also, Turbo Boosting is, itself, a special rule.

[Ricky S]

Going to ground is not the best move in the world. In fact I've never voluntarily done it in my life. And I've only ever seen it done voluntarily by Gretchin.

Turbo Boosting is alright. But I hardly think the majority of Necrons are going to have that ability.

Also, Turbo Boosting is, itself, a special rule.

You've never gone to ground? I really dont believe it. Not even with any of your scout squads on the last turn of the game to keep them alive on the objective?

[Squark]

Turbo Boosting is alright. But I hardly think the majority of Necrons are going to have that ability.

Also, Turbo Boosting is, itself, a special rule.

Especially considering most of what I've heard of the new codex indicates most of the Necrons' "moves as a jetbike" units are becoming jump infantry, or, in the case of scarabs, beasts.

Which is a pity. Scarabs with 2++ saves were awesome.

[BoSheck]

I believe the BRB specifically mentioned fortifications as 3+ saves--people usually don't play with those, but I've seen it on more than one occasion so it's certainly not an absolute.

Side note: I send troops to ground all the time. But I also play a foot list, it's pretty easy to see when you need to go to ground. Instances like: are these guys on an objective, and not going to be in range to do anything useful next turn? Sure. Are they getting completely wiped out by low AP weapons and would all die anyway? Why not--get lucky, take the heat off some other unit. It's worked out multiple times before, it'll work out again in the future.

Speaking of foot lists, I've got a league game coming up tomorrow and I wanted to make sure some people have a good time. So this is the list I was putting together. I spent the entire weekend cutting wolf claws, plasma pistols and storm shields off of models I didn't assemble (read: the help got a little carried away with the upgrades) so I freed up about 5 Wolf Guard terminators and 8 Wolf Guard models. To celebrate I took my excess Ravenwing upgrade sprues and converted five more cyclones for the terminators and cannibalized some multi-meltas for combi-meltas on the Wolf Guard.

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1500 Point Wolves
275 - HQ - Logan Grimnar
100 - HQ - Rune priest - Jaws, Living Lightning
115 - Elite - Wolf's Hook - 5x Scouts w/2x power weapons, meltagun
143 - 5x Wolf Guard: 1x storm bolter, 1x combi-melta, 1x boltgun, terminator, CML
148 - Troops - 5x Wolf Guard: 1x storm bolter, 1x combi-melta/pistol, 1x boltgun/pistol, terminator/CML/Wolf Claw
168 - Troops - 5x Wolf Guard: 1x storm bolter, 1x combi-melta/Powerfist, 1x boltgun/pistol, terminator/CML/Wolf Claw
148 - Troops - 5x Wolf Guard: 1x storm bolter, 1x combi-melta/pistol, 1x boltgun/pistol, terminator/CML/Wolf Claw
148 - Troops - 5x Wolf Guard: 1x storm bolter, 1x combi-melta, 1x boltgun/pistol, terminator/CML/Wolf Claw
140 - Heavy - Pack Tiewaz - 5x Missile Long Fangs
115 - Heavy - Sunwolf Pack - 4x Multimeltas Long Fangs

So plenty of firepower, Wolf Guard all have 5 wound groups, psychic protection for the army and...woofwoofwoof.

My biggest concern is this: part of me feels like I don't even need the combi-meltas in the wolf guard; like they aren't even necessary. But it's only 20 extra points, so the most I could do is upgrade all the wolf claws to power fists. Alternatively I could drop all the claws and add 2 fists or some mixture of the two (resulting in designated forward and reserve units...)

Edit: Also, I'm thinking of actually not using living lightning for once. Maybe fury of the wolf spirits, murderous hurricane or stormcaller instead. But, again, that idea kind of gives me a sinking feeling.

[Hootman]

Fairly certain that without Stealth or other such rules, that stuff doesn't exist.

Stealth, Turboboost, Go To Ground, Bolster Defenses, and natural bunkers. The last one is the only 3+ that doesn't require action by a model to be 3+ Cover. We have maybe 2 things that could be that at my FLGS, but I admit that it's probably rare in most places and on almost all tables.

[Tren]

Again go read the actual codex, because they actualy wanted to build a galaxy-spanning empire (there's even a wicked cool farseer vision of it) that made sure of a constant supply of souls instead of leveling everything to a wasteland.

I have read the codex, thank you. It's still irrelevant. Whatever the specifics of their particular end game, they're still very much like the Tyranids in being an advanced, inscrutable, overwhelming, force of space horrors whose agenda is to end life as we know it. Admittedly, I prefer the Necron awakening horror from beyond reality kind of aesthetic, but a lot of their defining characteristics as a force in 40K were still shared with Tyranids.

Nope, they're now seriously lagging behind. SM are now better at mass producing power armor, SM special IA land raiders are now tougher, and they also now have worst communication than the Tau.

This is turning into a Chewbacca defense. "SM are now better at mass producing power armor?" What does that even mean? The Necrons don't produce anything, their entire species has already been transfered into living metal bodies.

What you seem to be complaining about is that the basic citizen of the Necron race--the Necron equivalent to a Conscript-- is only about as tough as a genetically engineered super human in advanced powered armor. That's patently ridiculous. The fact that the average Necrontyr in their shiny living metal body is a rough match for a Space Marine--and has a better gun-- is pretty clear indication of their technological superiority.

SW, BA, and GK.

Are still not nearly badass as Space Marines are portrayed in fluff, in novels, or in video games.

I would at least expect them to able to hold their own, instead of now needing to relay in overwhelming numbers to get the job done.

Being a few points cheaper than a Tac marine with a roughly comparable stat line hardly seems like needing overwhelming numbers.

Again, robot eldar (which many times are mislead by leaders with their own agenda thank you very much), just heavily focused on heavy number of wraithguards. Which was already in the fluff as well.

If Chewbacca lives on Endor you must acquit. I'm not even sure what you're saying here. That Farseers frequently mislead and deceive the Craftworld for their own benefit? Source on that.

The difference is that individual Farseers or Autarch's don't have absolute rule over planets of mindless drones with a handful of noble courtiers attending to them. They're also generally more interested in the preservation of their species as a whole, and don't really pursue individual interests the way the new Necron Overlords are described to.

You mean, like every other single non-marine faction but IG? Orks have megarmor, tau have crisis suits, eldar have their own power armors, you name it.

And you don't think the Triarch's or the Lycheguard might have 2+ saves, plus reanimation? The Dispersion shield sounds pretty nasty as well, and it's certainly something other factions don't have.

[Tome]

So I'll likely be attending my first tournament at the end of the month. Sounds like it ought to be pretty fun.

Thing is, I'm not sure what list to bring. My local metagame is pretty casual, and thus so are my lists for that, not to mention at a different points level entirely.

On the one hand there's my Tau. I love my little blue space-commies, they were what got me into playing 40K in the first place, and I have the models I'd need to make the competitive Tau list. Not to mention I know most of the theoretical ins and outs of using them properly, even if I haven't been able to apply them much. Bad side is, they're currently one of the weaker Codices out there, which isn't likely to make things at all fun, and I might have gotten a bit rusty with them since I picked up my GKs.

On the other hand, there's my Grey Knights. The Codex is strong, but I've never used these guys competitively. My usual list is Terminator spam, and I don't really have the models for anything else. Some supporting units of PA dudes and some Inquisitorial stuff, not enough for a full army.

Which do you folks think I should bring, the Tau or the GKs? And if GKs, what sort of list should I bring, bearing in mind what I have and a few small additions? The tournament is 1750 points and has restrictions on Elite/Fast Attack/Heavy Support slots (can't take a second slot of one until all three have one unit in, same for the third slot).

[Craftworld]

For the third time...why does everyone really hate Ward...whenever I ask this question (and it might happen again this time) I get a catch all answer that really doesn't make sense and/or I get the feeling that people just hate him because "the cool kids are doing it" sort of reason. The "BA and Necrons are friends" is to me...ludicrous...from what I have read, both forces (after fighting another foe by combining their forces, sorry I don't remember the exact foe) were tired out/undermanned to continue fighting so they stopped fighting and went their separate ways. That isn't buddy buddy, thats "Hey, lets survive to kill them later." It happened in DoW Winter Assault between IG/SM and the Eldar and I don't hear "Eldar and IG are buddy buddy." An explanation would be great.

[13_CBS]

For the third time...why does everyone really hate Ward...whenever I ask this question (and it might happen again this time) I get a catch all answer that really doesn't make sense and/or I get the feeling that people just hate him because "the cool kids are doing it" sort of reason. The "BA and Necrons are friends" is to me...ludicrous...from what I have read, both forces (after fighting another foe by combining their forces, sorry I don't remember the exact foe) were tired out/undermanned to continue fighting so they stopped fighting and went their separate ways. That isn't buddy buddy, thats "Hey, lets survive to kill them later." It happened in DoW Winter Assault between IG/SM and the Eldar and I don't hear "Eldar and IG are buddy buddy." An explanation would be great.

In the case of the Blood Angels leaving the Necrons alone, I suspect that this riles up WH40K fluff fans because the usual Imperial policy against Xenos is to exterminate every last one, and indeed most of the fluff puts a lot of emphasis on this. While individual Imperial forces might strike deals with aliens from time to time, this is almost always with sentient races that are capable of negotiating and aren't bent on the immediate destruction of humanity--namely Tau, who often use diplomacy as a way to get what they want, and the Eldar, whose farseers might foresee the necessity of an alliance with us filthy apes/deem it necessary to use us filthy apes as means to an end. Thus, from the way the Imperium works (or is supposed to work), alliances and peace with aliens is supposed to be a rare thing, and tends to only pop up when one or both sides deem it better to leave the other alone if only because there are bigger, more dangerous things to fight (Tyranids, Orks, Chaos, and, of course, Necrons). (Remember; the Black Templars once stumbled across a battle between Eldar and Dark Eldar, and instead of allying with the Eldar or even waiting until one sided defeated the other, they simply charged in immediately and dispensed the Emperor's justice with their power fists.)

On top of this is the fact that Necrons, like the Tyranids, Orks, and Chaos, are supposed to be the "utterly inhuman" enemies of 40K; faceless enemies that are more forces of destruction than actual civilizations.

Thus, when Matt Ward came in and did something that seemingly flew in the face of not just established canon but also the established character and aesthetic of the Imperium, and through it the established character and aesthetic of WH40K...well, people got angry. (That he also did things like trump up the importance of the Ultramarines and made the Grey Knights do silly things to a certain group of Sisters of Battle only made some people angrier. 1d4chan possesses nothing less than pure hatred for Matt Ward's changes to the fluff.)

(Also, even though I don't play the table top game: the Grey Knights dreadknight just look silly in my opinion. Yo dawg, I heard you like power armor, so I put some power armor around your power armor so you can kill demons while you kill demons.)

[Craftworld]

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In the case of the Blood Angels leaving the Necrons alone, I suspect that this riles up WH40K fluff fans because the usual Imperial policy against Xenos is to exterminate every last one, and indeed most of the fluff puts a lot of emphasis on this. While individual Imperial forces might strike deals with aliens from time to time, this is almost always with sentient races that are capable of negotiating and aren't bent on the immediate destruction of humanity--namely Tau, who often use diplomacy as a way to get what they want, and the Eldar, whose farseers might foresee the necessity of an alliance with us filthy apes/deem it necessary to use us filthy apes as means to an end. Thus, from the way the Imperium works (or is supposed to work), alliances and peace with aliens is supposed to be a rare thing, and tends to only pop up when one or both sides deem it better to leave the other alone if only because there are bigger, more dangerous things to fight (Tyranids, Orks, Chaos, and, of course, Necrons). (Remember; the Black Templars once stumbled across a battle between Eldar and Dark Eldar, and instead of allying with the Eldar or even waiting until one sided defeated the other, they simply charged in immediately and dispensed the Emperor's justice with their power fists.)

On top of this is the fact that Necrons, like the Tyranids, Orks, and Chaos, are supposed to be the "utterly inhuman" enemies of 40K; faceless enemies that are more forces of destruction than actual civilizations.

Thus, when Matt Ward came in and did something that seemingly flew in the face of not just established canon but also the established character and aesthetic of the Imperium, and through it the established character and aesthetic of WH40K...well, people got angry. (That he also did things like trump up the importance of the Ultramarines and made the Grey Knights do silly things to a certain group of Sisters of Battle only made some people angrier. 1d4chan possesses nothing less than pure hatred for Matt Ward's changes to the fluff.)

(Also, even though I don't play the table top game: the Grey Knights dreadknight just look silly in my opinion. Yo dawg, I heard you like power armor, so I put some power armor around your power armor so you can kill demons while you kill demons.)

This was what I thought was why people hated that part. If any part of 4chan is included in this...I understand immediately why this has gotten so big. Thank you for that explanation.

[Ogremindes]

Ward is supposedly the one writing the codex. We're lucky they aren't called C'tan'na.

Hey! I already made that joke!