Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

[Hootman]

Not sure if this is just IA or actually Apocalypse, but the Grot Tank Squadron makes me very happy. Admittedly, my knowledge of anything outside of the standard codices is quite limited.

Speaking of IA, are the rules from it considered legal for all play in which they aren't specifically banned, like Forgeworld seems to be? Or is it more a blanket "gotta ask or you can't play"? I know you can choose to only play with people who say yes, but I'm wondering what the official ruling is.

[Zorg]

It's probably one of the reasons people say "Forgeworld OP."

I may be mis-remembering, but haven't you said Vypers are rubbish and most stuff in teh Eldar codex is overpriced on several occasions?
Something being cheaper and better than something overpriced and terrible doesn't seem particularly overpowered to me.

Speaking of IA, are the rules from it considered legal for all play in which they aren't specifically banned, like Forgeworld seems to be? Or is it more a blanket "gotta ask or you can't play"? I know you can choose to only play with people who say yes, but I'm wondering what the official ruling is.

Imperial Armour is Forge World, so...

This is the info for the 40k marked units from IA:Av2

This unit is intended to be used in 'standard' games of Warhammer 40,000, within the usual limitations of Codex selection and force organisation charts.
As with all our models these should be considered 'official', but owing to the fact they may be unknown to your opponent, it's best to make sure they are happy to play a game using Forge World models before you start.

edit: Supposed Necron Codex cover art:

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[Gryffon]

edit: Supposed Necron Codex cover art:

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So much like.

[Renegade Paladin]

So, must be the Season of Apocalypse, since my game is coming up soon.

What's everyone's favourite unit/formation?

I like the heavy weapons company just for the lulz.

The "Imperial shield" Infantry company. You get another 3 Stratagems included and defensive fortifications and if you play IG you should already have that many models to beging with. So you don't have to do anything you werent planing already

Sadly, it's out of print and draws on the 4th edition codex anyway.

[Squark]

Might just be a combination of my distaste for the open-topped skiff design (It looks so silly to me) and the pixellation, but I'm not fond of it. Might look better on the book with the title and a border, though.

[Borgh]

I might actually start a necron army now, liking them more and more (apart from the transports)

[The_Final_Stand]

I, as a current Necron player, wish to respond thus: lulwut.

I mean, really, there seems to be a bit too much colour that isn't black or green, which is what I'm used to. Also, the Lord without legs.

Verdict:

[HalfTangible]

I, as a current Necron player, wish to respond thus: lulwut.

I mean, really, there seems to be a bit too much colour that isn't black or green, which is what I'm used to. Also, the Lord without legs.

Verdict:

1) The lord has legs.
2) I think the idea is supposed to be that the planet is burning.

Which makes it even dumber, as the necrons don't have flame weapons as far as i know... I have to agree, this is...

[Ceridan]

1) The lord has legs.
2) I think the idea is supposed to be that the planet is burning.

Which makes it even dumber, as the necrons don't have flame weapons as far as i know... I have to agree, this is...

The Necrons may not, but almost every race that they wish to destroy uses some form of flame, plasma or melta weapon and a stray shot would start a fire and I doubt the Necrons would bother with putting it out. I would expect most of the planets they raid/raze would look like burnt husks.

[Trixie]

edit: Supposed Necron Codex cover art:

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Looks a bit fan-arty to me.

I hope finished product will look better :P

[Eldan]

Don't like it. Doesn't seem to show off different troop types in the way these codices usually do, I don't like the colours and the poses are boring and don't seem to say "Necron" to me. I mean, are they posing? Really?

[Winterwind]

I have to admit, this supposed cover art does look kinda fake to me. It seems a bit as if it was put together somewhat amateurishly with some 3D graphics tool; not at all up to usual GW standards (which aren't even all that high to begin with), and not fully with their usual art style, either. Though whether this is because it really looks that way or whether it might look much better in reality, and it's just the format that doesn't do it justice, I don't know.

[Etcetera]

I have to admit, this supposed cover art does look kinda fake to me. It seems a bit as if it was put together somewhat amateurishly with some 3D graphics tool; not at all up to usual GW standards (which aren't even all that high to begin with), and not fully with their usual art style, either. Though whether this is because it really looks that way or whether it might look much better in reality, and it's just the format that doesn't do it justice, I don't know.

Really?

I'd say it's fairly consistent in style with other 5th ed Codex covers, and while I agree that it isn't as good as the previous Codex cover, I don't think it looks like it was made using CGI.

I bloody hate the red, though. Who do they think they are, Chaos?

[Timberwolf]

Nah they're the ones who love the Blood angels...

[Etcetera]

It's a quick and crappy edit, but I do think a green background really improves the image. At very least the red should be less saturated.

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And here I am sounding like a broken record.

[Cheesegear]

I may be mis-remembering, but haven't you said Vypers are rubbish and most stuff in teh Eldar codex is overpriced on several occasions?

Several times. However, with everyone now trying to ape MSU Razorspam, and finding replacements for Land Speeders within their own Codex, Vypers are, apparently, making a comeback. Even though Venoms are practically the same with a Transport Capacity.

Anyway, people don't like Forgeworld. It's generally an even more expensive option in an already expensive hobby. It's nearly always online - except at specialised GDs. Forgeworld stuff is, yes, generally better than regular Codex options (Lucius Drop Pods, Bray'Ath Ashmantle, Sevrin 'lol', Thulsa Doom Kane!? Was somebody drunk?). The issue (that I've found), is that not everyone has access to Forgeworld, and that makes it 'OP'.

[Zorg]

The issue (that I've found), is that not everyone has access to Forgeworld, and that makes it 'OP'.

That attitude has always bugged me. I mean a Land Raider costs $110 bucks, so it's not easy to 'access' either... At least the IA books are available in stores now.
I remember waaaay back in the day when nobody really had access to anything (pre-internet, no AU mail order), so you made do with what you got, and played against whatever your opponent brought. Maybe it's a generational thing :/


Anyways, more Necrons:

A Cryptek (HQ unit):



pic via Bramguant

Rules rumours:

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via Yakface

NECRON ARMY-WIDE SPECIAL RULES

• We'll Be Back from the previous codex has been replaced by Reanimation Protocols (sorry I keep accidentally calling it Resurrection Protocols in some of these teasers). It now works at the end of each phase, but only on a 5+. You now remove models and place a token or marker next to the unit to remind you how many rolls to make (although you could just use the downed models as markers, but the important thing is you know that these markers don't affect gameplay at all).
The rules are very clear about when/how models that return to play via RP are placed and if the entire unit is wiped out then the unit is gone and no RP rolls can be taken. Similarly, if the only model left in the unit is a character (such as a joined IC or a Cryptek/Lord) then these models alone are not sufficient to allow the other models to attempt their RP rolls. Nearly every non-vehicle unit in the game benefits from RP (as opposed to the old WBB, which only worked for 'Necrons'), except for the C'Tan shards.

Reanimation Protocols returns the model to play with a single wound unless they have a Phylactery in which case they come back (the first time they get back up) with D3 wounds.

• Ever-Living. This is basically just an additional Reanimation Protocol rule that characters have to describe how they're placed back on the table. Only characters (including basic Lords & Crypteks) have this rule, no squads do. The only real thing to note about it is that if the model wasn't joined to a unit when it went down, then if it returns to play it must be placed within 3" of the spot it fell.
So characters are the only models it really matters where their 'marker' is placed when they are removed. So in some situations, such as an enemy unit killing a character with Ever-Living in CC and then consolidating on top of his marker, it would be entirely possible to prevent him from returning to play (as they can't if you are unable to place them within 3" of the spot they went down).

• Entropic Strike. This is mainly a Scarab rule, but it also applies to a few close combat weapons in the army as well. Basically if a model suffers an unsaved wound from an Entropic weapon then it has it armor save immediately changed to '-'. Obviously this would only apply to multi-wound models as any other type of model would be dead if it suffered an unsaved wound (ignoring the argument about whether a wound stopped by 'Feel No Pain' still counts as an unsaved Wound or not).
Against vehicles, for each hit by this weapon type means at the end of the phase you roll a D6 and on a 4+ the vehicle's armor value is reduced by '1' on all facings. If a vehicle is reduced to '0' on any facing then it becomes wrecked immediately.

• Living-Metal. Not just for the Monolith anymore! Many vehicles in the codex have this and it basically allows the vehicle to ignore a Shaken result on a 2+ and a Stunned result on a 4+. These rolls are made immediately when the vehicle is damaged so this is nowhere near as good as the Grey Knights ability to remove Shaken/Stunned results.

• Phase out is gone (good riddance, I say ).

• There doesn't appear to be any Force Org shifting around in this codex at all unlike most other recent codexes (so taking any special character doesn't allow you to take a unit in a different section of the Force Org chart at all).


NECRON ARMY-WIDE WEAPON NOTES

• Gauss Weaponry does NOT have rending. It retains the 'auto-glance' on a penetration roll of a '6' rule, but has otherwise has lost the 'auto-wound' on a roll of a '6' regardless of Toughness that it used to have. The Gauss Cannon is now apparently Assault 2 & AP3 (I'm assuming the Strength is still 6).

• Telsa Weapons. With these weapons for every '6' rolled to hit the 'target suffers 2 additional automatic hits'. Whether or not that means the target suffers 2 or 3 hits in this case is a bit ambiguous, but I think the word 'additional' means that its actually 3 (one for the original hit for rolling the '6' to hit and then another additional two for a grand total of 3). The big daddy version of this weapon found on a lot of the heavier vehicles is the Tesla Destructor (and is almost always twin-linked to really maximize the chance to get those extra '6's to hit).
All Tesla weapons are 24" and AP '-', but the Destructor is S7, Assault 4 and 'Arc' (which means you roll a D6 each unit, friendly and enemy, within 6" of your target and on a '6' they are struck with D6 S5 AP- hits as well). While the AP '-' keeps this weapon from being a premiere light vehicle killer, I think with all the potential S7 shots this can theoretically kick out, it still going to be pretty good at zapping vehicles.

The weapons go in order from lightest to heaviest as: Tesla Carbine -> Cannon -> Destructor.

• Particle Weapons. These are basically the blast weapons of the Necron army (with the exception of the pistol variant) with no special rules. They all have a pretty high Strength and a mid-range AP.

The weapons go in order from lightest to heaviest as: Particle Caster (pistol) -> Beamer -> Shredder -> Whip.

• There aren't any weapons that ignore invulnerable saves in the codex either...however there are quite a few little special abilities scattered about that simply remove models from play if they fail a certain kind of test, which does effectively ignore invulnerable saves (and any other kind of save too).



via Bramgaunt

Monolith, Warriors and Destroyers stay the same price and the same composition. 12 Warriors & 3 scarab bases.

Also, i haven't seen any mention of the Eternal Life rule, which allows whole units to get up again. No idea how it works, though.


Also, the Cryptec is slightly less expensive then the Overlords, the flayed ones however are 35€, thats 9€ more then rumoured.


35 ->Euro<-. 35 Euro for the Flayed ones. Not Pound. And Ferrox is correct, everything that's 20.50 gbp transtales to 26 Euro.


Ah, Immortals and Deathmarks ARE one kit. Just to clear this one out.

[Timberwolf]

I had quite a nice game today. I took my Deathwing and the Dreadnought twins out for a little spin as I was out of town, knew I'd have time to kill and they're my most portable army. Belial (AKA Tyberos the Red Wake if we're being brutally honest here, and since Forgeworld is being discussed) prodded buttock most satisfactorily, mullering an Ethereal and bodyguard all by himself. I then spent the rest of the game going back and forth between two differentg sides of the board while the twins kept shooting ineffectually, but it was fun.

[Tome]

I had quite a nice game today. I took my Deathwing and the Dreadnought twins out for a little spin as I was out of town, knew I'd have time to kill and they're my most portable army. Belial (AKA Tyberos the Red Wake if we're being brutally honest here, and since Forgeworld is being discussed) prodded buttock most satisfactorily, mullering an Ethereal and bodyguard all by himself. I then spent the rest of the game going back and forth between two differentg sides of the board while the twins kept shooting ineffectually, but it was fun.

Wait, someone actually used an Ethereal? We are talking a Tau Ethereal here, right? The infamous 'take this to make your army worse' HQ choice?

Stomping an Ethereal isn't much of an accomplishment. They're not exactly hard to kill (being Tau with no armour, guns or mobility).

[Timberwolf]

Yes, someone did.

And it's not so much of an achievement as a, "Look, here's Belial, here's a squad of Tau. I shall roll Belial's 6 lightning claw attacks. Oh look, no Tau, I didn't really need the rest of the squad" kind of moment.

[Tome]

Yes, someone did.

And it's not so much of an achievement as a, "Look, here's Belial, here's a squad of Tau. I shall roll Belial's 6 lightning claw attacks. Oh look, no Tau, I didn't really need the rest of the squad" kind of moment.

Weird. You'd think folks would know better than to field those things.

And yeah, that sounds like how your average close combat with Tau goes.

[Cheesegear]

And yeah, that sounds like how your average close combat with Tau goes.

Only because Power Weapons were involved. Tau normally get a 4+ save and don't normally instantly die in combat. It's normally Sweeping Advances that kill them.

[Zorg]

Rules (and model) for the Land Raider Proteus are up on Forge World. I like them, it's a good and proper tank for Marines, and has loads of fun options.
Oh, and it's an elites choice so you can have six land raider lists with regular marines.

[Penguinizer]

I'm annoyed that Grey Knights are so good. It's the power weapons. They counter my plaguemarines so easily.

[Tome]

I'm annoyed that Grey Knights are so good. It's the power weapons. They counter my plaguemarines so easily.

Load up on low AP shooting weapons, particularly those with a range greater than 30" like Lascannons, Plasma Cannons and Blastmasters. They're a small army with only their armour saves to protect them and limited range, if you can whittle them down before they can get into range, you'll stand much better odds against them.

If you have to do close combat, use a Defiler. They don't care about Force Weapons.

[IthilanorStPete]

Rules (and model) for the Land Raider Proteus are up on Forge World. I like them, it's a good and proper tank for Marines, and has loads of fun options.
Oh, and it's an elites choice so you can have six land raider lists with regular marines.

I like the look - it's nicely retro - but the rules get a solid "meh" from me. The customizability is cool, but there's just not a whole not new to it.

[Winterwind]

Load up on low AP shooting weapons, particularly those with a range greater than 30" like Lascannons, Plasma Cannons and Blastmasters. They're a small army with only their armour saves to protect them and limited range, if you can whittle them down before they can get into range, you'll stand much better odds against them.

I'm still fondly remembering that one time when my two Fire Prisms destroyed a full squad of 10 Purifiers with a single shot. Good times, good times.

[Penguinizer]

Load up on low AP shooting weapons, particularly those with a range greater than 30" like Lascannons, Plasma Cannons and Blastmasters. They're a small army with only their armour saves to protect them and limited range, if you can whittle them down before they can get into range, you'll stand much better odds against them.

If you have to do close combat, use a Defiler. They don't care about Force Weapons.

Since we tend to play optimized lists against eachother, I have 9 obliterators to play around with. I should probably get an alternative to those for more casual games.

Anyways, for optimized list games I have for 1750 point games:

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HQ:
Sorcerer, Mark of Slaneesh, Lash. 125
Sorcerer, Mark of Slaneesh, Lash. 125

Elites:
3x Terminator, 3 combi-meltas, 1 powerfist. 115
3x Terminator, 3 combi-meltas, 1 powerfist. 115

Troops:
6x Plague Marines, 2 Meltaguns, Rhino with second twinlinked bolter. 198
6x Plague Marines, 2 Meltaguns, Rhino with second twinlinked bolter. 198
6x Plague Marines, 2 Meltaguns, Rhino with second twinlinked bolter. 198

Heavy support:
3x3 Obliterators. 675

Total: 1749

I know I'm a douchebag for running this list, but is it ok for optimized list battles? Is there something I should change?

[Tome]

Since we tend to play optimized lists against eachother, I have 9 obliterators to play around with. I should probably get an alternative to those for more casual games.

Anyways, for optimized list games I have for 1750 point games:

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HQ:
Sorcerer, Mark of Slaneesh, Lash. 125
Sorcerer, Mark of Slaneesh, Lash. 125

Elites:
3x Terminator, 3 combi-meltas, 1 powerfist. 115
3x Terminator, 3 combi-meltas, 1 powerfist. 115

Troops:
6x Plague Marines, 2 Meltaguns, Rhino with second twinlinked bolter. 198
6x Plague Marines, 2 Meltaguns, Rhino with second twinlinked bolter. 198
6x Plague Marines, 2 Meltaguns, Rhino with second twinlinked bolter. 198

Heavy support:
3x3 Obliterators. 675

Total: 1749

I know I'm a douchebag for running this list, but is it ok for optimized list battles? Is there something I should change?

If GKs are proving a problem, then maybe change out some of the Terminators and Plague Marines. In both cases you're paying a good chunk of their points for durability that just isn't there against GKs' assaults.

Regardless, your general tactics against GKs should be to keep the Plague Marines out of GK assault range for as long as possible while the Obliterators whittle them down with Plasma Cannon/Lascannon shots. Same as usual really, except that your Plague Marines are a lot more vulnerable to assault then they usually are.

The list is the standard optimised Chaos list, I see little wrong with it if you're playing in a similarly optimised environment.

[evisiron]

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HQ:
Sorcerer, Mark of Slaneesh, Lash. 125
Sorcerer, Mark of Slaneesh, Lash. 125

Elites:
3x Terminator, 3 combi-meltas, 1 powerfist. 115
3x Terminator, 3 combi-meltas, 1 powerfist. 115

Troops:
6x Plague Marines, 2 Meltaguns, Rhino with second twinlinked bolter. 198
6x Plague Marines, 2 Meltaguns, Rhino with second twinlinked bolter. 198
6x Plague Marines, 2 Meltaguns, Rhino with second twinlinked bolter. 198

Heavy support:
3x3 Obliterators. 675

Total: 1749

I know I'm a douchebag for running this list, but is it ok for optimized list battles? Is there something I should change?

Running that list doesn't make you a douchebag.

As for optimised, it's about as well as you can do with that Codex. My friend runs something similar, tweaking it from tourney to tourney, but hasn't had much success. At the moment it's Lash Princes instead of sorcerers, defiler instead of some obliterators and only one termi-cide unit (with plasma). At the last tournament he suffered most against a Jakero list, ripped apart by 20-something lascannon shots per shooting phase.

From your list the only things I would really change is switching sorcerers to Winged Princes to increase the mobility of the lash effect. Being able to drag a unit to nowhere is better when you don't have to bring a rhino full of plague marines with you, and they can lend some much needed CC punch when necessary. You lose the ability to hide them in your Metal Bawkses, but it seems a fair trade off.

By the way, is there a reason behind the second bolters on the rhino, or was it just to fit in the loose points?