Helping a new guy create a really powerfull sorc?

[Khorin]

Hello guys,

I am new to the Forum & to the dnd itshelf. It's abut 4 months that I first played.

It happened so, that i recently got an invitation to join a game. But All the other guys are very experienced players & have few tier 1 monsters in there.

I just want some help to be able to play along without feeling greatly underpowered or a burden to the party. [Which consists of 3 characters, and i am gona be the 4th, 2 wizards & a planar druid(?)]
Adding that the are all experienced & have optimal prestige & spell choices.

I read the classes & i ended up playing a Sorc because i love the flavor too much to take anything else. When i said that to my DM he said it's ok & that i sould be a dragonwrought kobold with Loredrake archetype so i will be 1 lvl ahead of the others in spellcasting so the gap of power will be seriously shortened.

I am Here on the forum asking for your guidance into a build, Alternative Class Features, Prestige Classes, Spell selections.

Thanks in advance mates, & sorry for my bad english, i am not a native speaker

[Acanous]

for Prestige Class, you propably want Mage of the Arcane Order. It will allow you to keep up with the wizards in your party, in terms of spell selection.(I keep thinking it's in Tome and Blood, but I'm sure it's somewhere else...)

That planar shepard, however, is going to brutalize anything the DM throws at you.

This thread is relevant to your interests. Charisma can be applied to almost anything, given the right item, feat, or class. Good luck!

[HalfDragonCube]

for Prestige Class, you propably want Mage of the Arcane Order. It will allow you to keep up with the wizards in your party, in terms of spell selection.(I keep thinking it's in Tome and Blood, but I'm sure it's somewhere else...)

That planar shepard, however, is going to brutalize anything the DM throws at you.

This thread is relevant to your interests. Charisma can be applied to almost anything, given the right item, feat, or class. Good luck!

Mage of the Arcane Order is in Complete Arcane, IIRC.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Solo's Stupendously Superior Sorcerer Stratagems

[noparlpf]

Two wizards and a druid? That's a crazy power level right there.
What level are you starting at?

I'm not that great at optimizing and all (I don't know the intricacies of the game quite well enough after only a year), but I played a sorcerer 6/stormcaster 10 (Stormwrack page 70-ish) in several 16th level one-shots and short adventures. He only had 7th level spells; I sacrificed 8th level spells because I like the flavor of the sorcerer better than the wizard. And even so, he once took down the tarrasque (minus the wishing bit) single-handedly in three rounds. So you should be fine.

[gbprime]

The wizards and the druid have lots and lots of spells to choose from. You will not, you just have longer battery life (so to speak). So that means you want the spells you do take to always work.

What level will the character be?

Try this...

Sorcerer 6 / Ruathar 3 / Sanctified One of Kord 2 / Abjurant Champion 5

Ruathar is from Races of the Wild, need 3rd level spells to enter. It gets you the Knowledge (Religion) you need to enter Sanctified One (from Complete Champion). You lose 1 caster level by taking Sanctified One, but the first level ability is Holy Fire, which turns every fire spell you cast into UNTYPED DAMAGE for free... which means nobody is immune to your damage spells.

This means your combat spells include Combust (lvl 2, Spell Compendium), Scorching Ray (lvl 2, Player's Handbook), Fireball (lvl 3, Player's Handbook), Orb of Fire (lvl 4, Spell Compendium), and Mass Fire Shield (lvl 5, Spell Compendium). No one will ever get fire resistance against them.

After that, you can pretty much do any class, but I put Abjurant Champion on there (Complete Mage) because it comes with lots of stuff, great hit points, and full attack bonus, and Sanctified One of Kord provides the weapon proficiency you need to qualify. (You just need to pick up Combat Casting some time.)

For feat selection, I would recommend...

1 - Combat Casting (Player's Handbook)
3 - Bloodline Feat (Dragon Mag Compendium, gives you bonus spells)
6 - ??
9 - Minor Shapeshift (Complete Mage, have to learn Polymporph 4th level spell, then lets you give yourself temporary Hit Points each and every round as a free action!)

And you can pick up another feat at 1st level if you are human, plus 1 or 2 more if your DM allows Flaws. (Personally I don't like them, but some people do.)

This is optimized without being ridiculous.

[Hanuman]

I'd say it depends on what you want to be powerful at. I'd pick up a basic shax haversack, leadership feat, max ranks in perform, and start thinking about what spells you like.
As a bonus, I'll give you my favorite spells by level 0-5
0Prestidigitation
So much to do, lots of creativity.
1SilentImage
Make creative holograms, pull cons, trick foes.
2Invisibility
Such a wonderful defense!
3Fly
Invisibility + Fly? You might as well be made of air.
4Dancing Chains
This horribly nasty little gem of BoVD is one of the most brutal spells ever. It's no Streamers but it's longevity, its ease of use, and it's imagery are absolutely horrific.
5Wall of Stone
Create a custom wall of stone, this can protect, control and confuse most enemies, and provide long-lasting non-magical utility for endless scenarios.


My all time favorite tactic is this spell chain:
1) Cast Dancing Chains
Details: throw a handful of chains (about 3 heavy links each will do)
2) Cast Wall of Stone
Details: create a slot underneath too small to crawl through, and murder holes near the front of it, shape it to protect against foes
3) Either use the chains right away, or cast Cloudkill to complete the chain, space the cloudkill so the edge of the cloudkill is flush with the wall.
4) Use all the chains at your disposal to start working at your foes as you see fit, 4 chains can grapple a single foe at once, you get to use all of them each round. If you feel like it, have one of the chains return to you, you can climb it by using a move action without a climb check for 15' hover. Chains technically don't have a speed or a real HP so they can essentially ruin any caster/psion's day. Up to 1/CL chains can work on a single target making this strategy a very effective asssassination spell, and stone wall only compounds in effectiveness in enclosed spaces.
Use chains to grapple foes and drag them back into the cloudkill. Feel free to have your ranged characters charge up to the wall and fire through murderholes, and the melee units take cover behind the wall sides in order to flank bypassers.
5) Once you are switch from juggling multiple opponents to being clearly in control, use an unseen servant (either cast or using your handy collar of perpetual attendance) to pick up a lock as a free action. Attempt to pin a foe using the chains and then have your servant place locks on the chains, permanently grappling them pinned.


----------


Other fun spells? Greater Mighty Wallop will make you loved by your party's weapon users, web + wall of limbs is also a great horrorshow and can be stupidly effective in small spaces, haste, soundlance, mage armor, nerveskitter and detect magic are all things to look into.

[Yorae]

2 wizards & a planar druid(?)

Meaning that the Druid is a Planar Shepherd? That's fairly terrifying.

Make sure to check out Races of the Dragon for the "Wings of X" line of spells that are Sorcerer only. In particular, Wings of Flurry is crazy good.

If you're competing with tier ones and they have some decent optimization, I say go for it and make this guy a spellslinging beast. It just so happens I was working on something similar lately.

Loredrake is on the crazy side, but if your DM said it's alright, then, hey, have a blast! =P If he/she's open to Loredrake, maybe he will also be open to the Spellhoarding template?

Kobold Sorcerer / Incantatrix (or Incantatar, if you're playing a male) / Fatespinner

1 - Sorcerer 1 - Dragonwraught (perform Draconic Rite of Passage)
Flaw (Vulnerable): Maximize Spell
Flaw (Noncombatant): Iron Will
2 - Sorcerer 2
3 - Sorcerer 3 - Draconic Reservoir (perform Greater Draconic Rite of Passage)
4 - Sorcerer 4
5 - Sorcerer 5
6 - Sorcerer 6 - Practical Metamagic (Maximize Spell)
7 - Incantatrix 1 - Bonus: Extend Spell
8 - Incantatrix 2
9 - Incantatrix 3 - Arcane Thesis (Wings of Flurry)
10 - Incantatrix 4 -Bonus: Persistent Spell
11 - Incantatrix 5
12 - Incantatrix 6 - Widen Spell
13 - Incantatrix 7 - Bonus: Twin Spell
14 - Incantatrix 8
15 - Incantatrix 9 - Practical Metamagic (Twin Spell)
16 - Incantatrix 10 - Bonus: Explosive Spell
17 - Fatespinner 1
18 - Fatespinner 2 - Delay Spell
19 - Fatespinner 3
20 - Fatespinner 4

Some spells to take/consider:
Wings of Flurry
Orb of X
Greater Invis
Ruin Delver's Fortune (Persist!)
(Greater) Mirror Image
Arcane Spellsurge
(Greater) Arcane Fusion

Make sure you boost your Spellcraft as much as possible, then you can cast buffs at their normal spell levels and then use Metamagic Effect to Persist+Extend them after the fact. If you can do this to Arcane Spellsurge and/or (Greater) Arcane Fusion, you've got some serious power to throw around.

Persist Ruin Delver's Fortune three or four times on yourself.
Congrats, you now have Divine Grace, Poison and Fear Immunity, Evasion, and optionally a handful of extra HP.

Also, make sure you take the Metamagic Specialist ACF from Player's Handbook 2, so that you can cast your metamagic'd spells without needed full round actions to do so. When using Arcane Spellsurge, remember that you can cast a metamagic spell with this ACF as a swift action, then cast one without it as your standard action.

Make sure you take Time Stop as one of your 9ths.
Then you can set up a bunch of Delayed Twinned Maximized Widened Wings of Flurry, with the final one also being Explosive as well. When time resumes, everything that isn't friendly within 60 ft. should be brutally beaten into a fine pink paste (or green, or purple... aberrations are weird). As a bonus, if you're indoors, what's left of them is probably coating the walls from Explosive Spell.

Of course, you can do plenty of other things with it prior to getting Time Stop, that's just a pretty awesome nova.

[Telonius]

Dragonwrought Kobold with Greater Draconic Rite of Passage is tailor-made for entry into Mystic Theurge with no actual casting levels lost.

Clr1-3
Mystic Theurge1-3
Incant1-10
MT4-7

You end up casting as a 10th-level Cleric/20th-level Sorcerer, with the ability to apply any of the Incantatrix goodies to your Cleric spells as well as your Sorcerer spells. (Hello, day-long persisted buffs!)

Spell domain makes a mockery of your Spells Known limitation.

An alternate to this would be taking Dweomerkeeper levels for the last four, eventually getting Wish 1/day as a Su ability (i.e. no XP cost). This would work particularly well with Mantle of Spells. Choose to divide your Dweomerkeeper levels, three to Sorc and one to Cleric. Select "Greater Anyspell" as the spell Mantle of Spells points to. Every arcane spell level 5 and under is available to you now, whenever you want; you end up casting as a Sorc19/Clr11.

[darksolitaire]

Have you Desert Kobold be spawned in magical ritual by a white dragon.
White Dragonspawn, that is ;)

[Yorae]

Have you Desert Kobold be spawned in magical ritual by a white dragon.
White Dragonspawn, that is ;)

Antarctic Ice Desert =p

[Keld Denar]

<Build>

I find your lack of Residual Magic (CMage) disturbing. You have Incantatrix abuse. Seriously, go look at Residual Magic. The 2nd ability, in particular. That, combined with Arcane Spellsurge makes your spells/day EXPLODE. Seriously.

Round 1
Standard: Cast Arcane Spellsurge
Swift: Cast Timestop

Round 1.1
Swift: Cast some other spell
Standard: Cast super metamagic delayed Wings of Flurry

Round 1.2
Swift: Cast normal Wings of Flurry, get tons of free metamagic from Residual MM.
Standard: Cast super metamagic delayed Wings of Flurry

Round 1.X
Swift: Repeat 1.2
Standard: Repeat 1.2

Timestop ends
Round 2: Cast Prestidigitation to clean blood and viscera from robes, loot bodies.

[Dusk Eclipse]

What's the source of Residual Metmagic?

[Keld Denar]

What's the source of Residual Metmagic?

I find your lack of Residual Magic (CMage) disturbing.

CMage - Complete Mage

[Diarmuid]

I'm sorry, I just cant sit by and watch this thread any longer.

This guy is a sefl proclaimed absolute noob and you guys are throwing some of the most complicated, difficult to understand optimization methods at him.

Now I realise his DM has done him a major disservice by telling him to make a loredrake kobold in the first place, but you guys are going to give this poor chap an anyuerism.

[gomipile]

A simpler option would be Shadowcraft Mage. This lets a few low-level spell selections substitute for a wide variety of evocation and conjuration spells.

This way, he can grow his character's abilities as his knowledge of the system and spell lists grows. Its a lot better then getting stuck in the "I chose my sorc's spells totally wrong" rut.

[Dusk Eclipse]

CMage - Complete Mage

Ok... now I feel really stupid...

[JaronK]

If you're already going Loredrake, might as well be Venerable (+3 all mental stats, but Dragonwrought Kobolds get no physical penalties for this) and use the Greater Draconic Rite of Passage, which requires one feat and gives you -4 hp, -1kgp, and +1 Sorcerer Level. That'll put you a full spell level above your peers.

Then consider Mage of the Arcane Order for spell flexibility, and Wings of Flurry for shootin' bad guys.

JaronK

[Fouredged Sword]

Look up the mailman. Really.

Laugh as everyone else in the party is stull laying down battlefield control when you just make something dead.

[Telonius]

Now I realise his DM has done him a major disservice by telling him to make a loredrake kobold in the first place, but you guys are going to give this poor chap an anyuerism.

Not to mention putting a total noob in the presence of a Planar Shepherd and (presumably) a pair of Batmen, all played by very experienced players. If he's going to do anything other than stand there slack-jawed while the other three create the Tippyverse, he's going to have to do some serious build optimization.

[Madwand99]

Dragonwrought Kobold with Greater Draconic Rite of Passage is tailor-made for entry into Mystic Theurge with no actual casting levels lost.

Clr1-3
Mystic Theurge1-3
Incant1-10
MT4-7

Greater Rite requires 6HD to function, so this build doesn't work, unless I'm missing something. I like it though, if it worked.

And yeah, the phrase "thrown into the deep end" doesn't even cover what a newbie is going to go through in a super-optimized party like this. It takes a large amount of play skill to take advantaged of a complex build-- that includes ANY full spellcaster, not just the extremely optimized builds suggested here. I truly feel sorry for him. It's easier to learn in a low-op group.

My suggestion is get build help, a LOT of build help, from the other optimizers in your party. Don't be afraid to ask them for help. Hopefully that will get you up to speed ASAP.

[Flickerdart]

Yeah, Mailman is probably your best bet - your party members will be incredibly good at battlefield control and buffing themselves sky-high, but at the end of the day you need someone to actually deal the damage. It also doesn't take a lot of system mastery to nuke things for a ton of damage.

[Urpriest]

Yeah, Mailman is probably your best bet - your party members will be incredibly good at battlefield control and buffing themselves sky-high, but at the end of the day you need someone to actually deal the damage. It also doesn't take a lot of system mastery to nuke things for a ton of damage.

Plus, Mailman is spelled out level by level, so he won't have a hard time figuring out what to do.

[Madwand99]

It occurred to me that no one has posted a link yet, so here you go:

The Mailman

[sreservoir]

If you're already going Loredrake, might as well be Venerable (+3 all mental stats, but Dragonwrought Kobolds get no physical penalties for this) and use the Greater Draconic Rite of Passage, which requires one feat and gives you -4 hp, -1kgp, and +1 Sorcerer Level. That'll put you a full spell level above your peers.

Then consider Mage of the Arcane Order for spell flexibility, and Wings of Flurry for shootin' bad guys.

JaronK

loredrake is +2 effective levels, no? you'd be two levels ahead.

[JaronK]

Lore drake gives you +2 Sorcerer levels, GDRP gives +1. But Sorcerers are half a spell level behind Wizards and Clerics naturally, and two Sorc levels gives one spell level, so with all of those in play he'd be one spell level ahead of everyone else... at any given level, he'd have access to one higher level of spells (until he maxes at 9s, of course... at which point he can start taking epic feats at level 15).

JaronK

[Midnight_v]

It occurred to me that no one has posted a link yet, so here you go:

The Mailman

+1 I was appalled that it wasn't the first or second post. It is pretty much THE go to sorcerer especially for learning curvature. Its easy and does its job well, but it has the potential to get complex. Bravo tier 2.

[Retech]

*Cough*


Venerable Loredrake GDRP White Dragonspawn Abomination is even better. You can put in your background that you are the absolute perfect model of your race, giving you even more sorcerer levels. From this, a total of +5 sorcerer levels, which absolutely craps on anything a wizard can bring to bear.

Actually, how about...

Cleric 1/Mystic Theurge X

Just ask your DM to allow additional "epic level" Mystic Theurge, going past level 10 and just continuing the spell progression. Use your cleric side to DMM Persist every single buff imaginable by spamming nigh sticks and use your sorcerer side for the spells that actually give saves.

You can pretty much combine the race with any build out there and make it even stronger. I played one of these at level 5 (giving me level 10 sorc casting, aka level 5 spells) and it absolutely trashed everything (it was a random series of one-shot adventures that was PVP, and everyone for themselves in their most optimised builts, save Pun pun)

[JaronK]

*Cough*


Venerable Loredrake GDRP White Dragonspawn Abomination is even better.

I for one wouldn't want the level adjust. Plus there are a variety of issues with that template.

JaronK

[gbprime]

I'm sorry, I just cant sit by and watch this thread any longer.

This guy is a sefl proclaimed absolute noob and you guys are throwing some of the most complicated, difficult to understand optimization methods at him.

Now I realise his DM has done him a major disservice by telling him to make a loredrake kobold in the first place, but you guys are going to give this poor chap an anyuerism.

+1 and amen. Hence my somewhat simpler solution.