Results 31 to 60 of 361
-
2011-08-04, 10:04 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2011
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXIII
Put me in as a contestant. I have watched a few of these and am finally interested in the SI.
-
2011-08-04, 01:04 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2011
- Location
- Clockwork Nirvana
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXIII
I'll try my hand at this one. These things always seem useful when I mine them for ideas, and I like this class in general.
Last edited by Hecuba; 2011-08-04 at 01:09 PM.
-
2011-08-04, 05:37 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2010
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXIII
For a RAW answer about the Divine Crusader's spell list, I sent a PM to Curmudgeon. That should clear up any issues.
Quotebox
-
2011-08-04, 06:49 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Location
- Bellona
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXIII
OK, I think I will actually enter this one, instead of just saying I will like last competition. I've got a pretty strong concept already, and it has overall come together already in my head, which is a good start...
This is a lot of fun, I've never really looked at Divine Crusader as a class, instead of just as a dip!
-
2011-08-04, 07:56 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2009
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXIII
Yeah. I've got a few interesting domains in mind. I expect to see at least one other person use one of them, which is why it's low on my "interesting stuff" list. There's one with fantastic flavor that I really want to get working, but I'm not confident that I can pull off the crunch.
The more I think about it, the more I like the whole "no, you can't just get other domains" thing. That way it becomes more about working with one domain than a race to expand your spells list as wide as possible.In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
My compiled Iron Chef stuff!
~ Gay all day, queer all year ~
-
2011-08-04, 09:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2011
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXIII
Actually, I've been think, and I think I'll compete instead of judging.
-
2011-08-05, 07:02 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2009
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXIII
Pish to the posh! If you want to feel better about yourself, look no farther than Felix or Perpetua. Not all of my builds win medals .
I second that emotion! I was actually angry when I found the clause in Complete Warrior saying you had to use melee attacks.
I think that we do need to develop a party line for this competition, so that everyone can at least start on the same page.
Oh, and I'll be competing. There's an optimization domain, right?
-
2011-08-05, 07:42 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2009
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXIII
...Why the heck is the Divine Crusader a PREPARED caster?!? They've only got 1 known spell per level - why do they have to prep that?
Well that kills my first build idea...
-
2011-08-05, 07:54 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2008
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXIII
I think I'll compete this time. I have an... original idea. At the very least I might be a serious contender for honorable mention
-
2011-08-05, 08:38 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2009
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXIII
Sooooo many half-tricks floating around in my brain. Why won't they coalesce?
In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
My compiled Iron Chef stuff!
~ Gay all day, queer all year ~
-
2011-08-05, 08:41 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2009
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXIII
-
2011-08-05, 08:48 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2009
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXIII
Part of the problem, for me at least, is that I don't have too many domains memorized, so I can't brainstorm too terribly much if I'm not actually at my books. Other ingredients? Yeah, I might not have all the details down, but I can at least think of big-picture stuff and fun tricks. The DC basically is its domain, though, so without knowing exactly how that's going to work, I can't come up with too many useful ideas on the bus, you know?
In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
My compiled Iron Chef stuff!
~ Gay all day, queer all year ~
-
2011-08-05, 09:18 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2010
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXIII
I got a response from Curmudgeon about the RAW of the matter.
Originally Posted by CurmudgeonQuotebox
-
2011-08-05, 11:48 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2009
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXIII
But it seems like Curmudgeon contradicted you...
sounds very different than
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon
-
2011-08-05, 12:11 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2010
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXIII
Quotebox
-
2011-08-05, 12:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2009
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXIII
I'm not sure that's really a valid argument, though. The class doesn't state that there's no way to add spells to your spell list, only that the class spell list consists of a very few specific spells.
Spells per Day: A divine crusader casts divine spells. She may only prepare and cast spells from her chosen domain (see above). Effectively, a divine crusader has a class spell list of only nine spells (one per spell level).
Basically, it's a semantic wash. Bad editing at it's finest. A GM could interpret it either way, in my opinion.
If we're going to make a ruling, let's leave out the absolutes. How about anyone who relies on adding spells to the class spell list gets penalized in Elegance, the same as though they had taken a flaw? You're not breaking RAW, since the RAW is ambiguous, but you're also not necessarily going to get the character past every GM either.
Hope that helps.
-
2011-08-05, 12:35 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2010
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXIII
My big question for this challenge is if domain granted abilities that reference cleric level will have minimum 1, or be entirely useless to you.
Thanks, Telasi for the spectacular OotSatar!
Currently playing:
In Debbie D's awesome "The Three Goddesses" game -Ireth, the shyest nymph you'll ever meet, bardic servant of the goddess of love.
-
2011-08-05, 01:41 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2006
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXIII
I suppose I'll sign on as a judge for this one.
Please note that, for my judging, Curmudgeon's ruling will be considered RAW.SpoilerMY CRITERIA: When more than a single example is given for a score, not all examples need be met to warrant that score.
Originality: Originality looks in part at the established archetypes and builds that the community at large has produced over the years. Characters attempting to perform, yet less adept at performing, as a well-established archetype - for instance, a charger - than typical for that archetype will score lower here than characters attempting to break new ground. Examples of a given score -
5 - A new concept, necessitating the Divine Crusader PrC.
4 - A new concept, using Divine Crusader without requiring it to tick.
3 - An unusual concept that has been showcased on gaming forums before, or that is featured in other contest entrants. It’s not new, but it’s not stock standard either.
2 - An old reliable concept, substituting Divine Crusader for the one typically used in discussions of builds of this type.
1 - A build either cut and pasted or cobbled together entirely from extant handbooks and other known works. No new ideas are presented.
Power: Power is measured assuming a 1st - 20th campaign. Characters that come to power very late in the progression, or that are somehow ineligible to play at low levels, can expect a deduction here as surely as characters whose power peaks at low-to-mid levels and then relatively diminishes. Examples of a given score, relative to other entrants in the contest -
5 - Easily the most powerful, flexible build presented here.
4 - A powerful character that might need help or additional preparation in specific circumstances to continue to do its job well.
3 - A build that is of average power for the contest, neither significantly stronger nor appreciably weaker overall. It may dominate in niche cases or be rendered weak in other niche cases.
2 - While less powerful than the typical entry for this contest, the character manages to contribute reasonably without relying on help from other party members.
1 - The build struggles to perform to the expectations typical for a character in the role assigned. Either the character relies heavily on help from other party members or requires specific equipment not restricted to the given role in order to be useful.
Elegance: Note that I tie the Elegance score closely to the Secret Ingredient. Shifter Druid 18/Moonspeaker 2 may be simple, but it is not an elegant use of Moonspeaker, to my mind. Note also that my default assumption is that characters presented are being inserted into an already-established world. A character that requires the DM to rewrite or ignore large swaths of existing fluff for your concept to work is unlikely to score highly in Elegance. References to Unearthed Arcana include those aspects of Unearthed Arcana that are included in the Variant section of the SRD. If I have to go hunting through books just to figure out where you got a particular feat, item, template, or obscure skill usage, expect no more than a 2 in Elegance. Examples of a given score -
5 - Divine Crusader is entered appropriately early and taken to completion. All class levels, feats, skills, and disclosed items are smoothly tied together and progress the whole concept seamlessly and in a logical order. Favored Class rules are adhered to, and single-level dips are kept to a bare minimum - no more than one. No Unearthed Arcana, templates, LA or Racial HD, or other obvious power-oriented shenanigans were used. One could reasonably expect a majority of DMs to allow both the concept and progression to happen in a typical game.
4 - Divine Crusader is entered reasonably early, perhaps delayed a bit or taken piecemeal, but finished. All class levels, feats, skills, and disclosed items are useful, but may not be intuitive choices to augment the presented concept. No Unearthed Arcana, templates, LA or Racial HD, or other obvious shenanigans were used, though Favored Class rules may have been ignored. One might expect to have to explain some bits of the build fairly carefully to a DM and possibly work out some accommodations, but flying books or dice bags are unlikely.
3 - Divine Crusader is taken to completion, but entered later than expected or typical of this contest. Class levels, feats, skills, and disclosed items are taken in a disjointed fashion, perhaps indicating power is more important than concept. This character may use a race with a level adjustment for thematic reasons, or be forced to take a flaw or two to fit everything in, or use some other method of grabbing more feats or spells or other features than one would typically expect. One would have to work closely with the DM for some features of the presented build to be available, work as described in the build presented, or come online in a timely fashion, and wouldn’t necessarily expect to get this character approved by a DM that doesn’t know the player well.
2 - Divine Crusader is abandoned before reaching its capstone or entered too late to finish before Epic levels. Class levels, feats, skills, and disclosed items do not share a unifying theme or work toward a more powerful whole. A template and LA are both included, possibly with flaws. Without an established rapport with a DM, one would expect the concept to meet with enough resistance that having a Plan B is advised when pitching the idea.
1 - Vivacious Anthropomorphic Dire Were-Squid Half-Fiend Domain Wizard with Frail and Inattentive and. . . no. Just no. So many discordant templates and feats and ideas have been slapped together that ‘a Wizard did it’ is the only viable explanation for the character’s existence. Divine Crusader appears to have been an afterthought to the overall design. You would fully expect the character idea either to be rejected by the DM, or to have come into being entirely through the DM’s meddling with your character, and wouldn’t broach the subject with the DM if dice, books or other potential projectiles were within easy reach.
Use of Secret Ingredient: This is a conglomeration of how well, and how thoroughly, you incorporate the abilities of the Secret Ingredient into the build. Examples of a given score, relative to other entrants -
5 - A fresh, original usage maximizing the particular strengths and minimizing the particular weaknesses of the Divine Crusader. Every aspect of Divine Crusader is utilized in the best way of any entry presented.
4 - A solid, complete usage of Divine Crusader. Specific strengths of the Secret Ingredient were emphasized with minimal emphasis taken away from other strengths, or without negating known weaknesses.
3 - Use of Divine Crusader was typical for the contest. Synergies were not emphasized especially, and some features of the Divine Crusader were ignored for the sake of maximizing a particular trick or two. If the main trick you're highlighting is the particular domain you're using, don't expect higher than a 3 here.
2 - Others used the Divine Crusader more thoroughly, but this entry’s usage wasn’t bad. The overall concept works but doesn’t especially synergize with the Divine Crusader's strengths well. If the main trick you're highlighting is based on your other class(es), don't expect higher than a 2 here.
1 - The Divine Crusader is actively hindering the concept presented. Clearly the character would have been stronger with a different Prestige Class, and the Divine Crusader got shoe-horned in there because of the contest.
-
2011-08-05, 01:42 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2010
- Location
- Suburban Dystopia
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXIII
There seem to be enough judges, so I'm entering this time around. I've got a cool idea or three.
.
Ding, You've Got Trophies!Spoiler
Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone you may still exist but you have ceased to live. - Samuel Clemens
Oh, and DFTBA.
-
2011-08-05, 01:43 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2009
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXIII
It just keeps getting better. I think abilities that reference cleric level are quite clear--some specifically list a minimum of one, while the others would be completely useless. I'm intrigued to see how people will really get this class to work, since adding spells and abusing domain granted powers is becoming difficult.
Weapon Specialization optimization?
-
2011-08-05, 01:45 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2010
- Location
- Suburban Dystopia
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXIII
It also doesn't say what the Divine Crusader's caster level is. While I think we can safely assume it equals the levels in the PrC, I'd be inclined to play it safe on things that reference cleric level. IMO, either avoid them or don't rely on them, because odds are at least 1 judge will have a different opinion on it than you.
.
Ding, You've Got Trophies!Spoiler
Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone you may still exist but you have ceased to live. - Samuel Clemens
Oh, and DFTBA.
-
2011-08-05, 01:53 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2006
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXIII
-
2011-08-05, 04:54 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2011
- Gender
-
2011-08-05, 07:02 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2009
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXIII
Quick question: If we want a domain that's not usually associated with any deities, what Weapon Focus do we take? For example, I can't find a source for some of the domains listed in the Spell Compendium (I won't say which, for fear of influencing people and/or tipping my hand). MOST of them are in CDiv, but not ALL of them. I see four options, none of which I really like:
1) Pick an existing deity, write a brief but cogent argument for why that deity should have that domain, and go from there. This is probably the best of the four, but it treads a little bit far from RAW for comfort.
2) Burn a feat on Weapon Focus without specifying what it is or gaining any specific benefit from it. You've paid the cost of entry, even if you don't get the usual secondary benefit. I don't like this because of how amazingly flavorless it ends up being.
3) Pick another domain. This will make me sad for reasons that should be obvious.
4) Use the "generic alignment" weapons and devote yourself to your alignment, which just happens to include your domain. (I think the generic associations are found under the Spiritual Weapon spell and possibly in Complete Champion). This is basically combining the problems with #1 and #2.
Any thoughts, judges and entrants?In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
My compiled Iron Chef stuff!
~ Gay all day, queer all year ~
-
2011-08-05, 07:22 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2008
- Location
- In an Octopus's Garden
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXIII
I think all of the domains presented in the Spell Compendium appeared somewhere else first. That would probably be the best place to check for affiliated dieties.
Dex
SpoilerRegarding my Necrotic Apprentice trick:
Regarding my Non-Epic Hidecarved Dragon:
Check out the Versatile Domain Generalist.
-
2011-08-05, 07:27 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2009
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXIII
Argh. I'm trying to be evasive and not make it immediately obvious which domain I'm using.
Assuming that there is, in fact, such a domain that doesn't actually have any associated deities, what then?In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
My compiled Iron Chef stuff!
~ Gay all day, queer all year ~
-
2011-08-05, 07:29 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Location
- Terra Australis
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXIII
This list compiled by Curmudgeon is very useful.
My winning competition entries: Kinvig Arrumskor | The Great Pumpkinhead | Wynfrith d'Acker
Torn-City - Massively multiplayer online browser based crime RPG
-
2011-08-05, 07:43 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2011
- Location
- Denver
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXIII
I may do this if I have the time.
Last edited by SowZ; 2011-08-05 at 07:44 PM.
Homebrew PrC: The Performance Artist
Avatar by Kymme
-
2011-08-05, 07:47 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2006
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXIII
If I were competing, I'd be most likely to lean to #1, recognizing that any of the above options might cause a deduction.
For additional anxiety creation, note that choosing a deity that ties you to a specific setting (Eberron, FRCS, etc.) has in the past been justification for a deduction.
-
2011-08-05, 08:00 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2011
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXIII
It's difficult to try to think of both an original, yet powerful domain. I was going to go for the Spell domain, when I realized ANYSPELL DOESN'T WORK WITH A DIVINE CRUSADER!!!