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2011-11-09, 05:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2010
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Re: In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
A quicker (and better) fix is to just let them cast off of their entire list (only for levels they would normally have, of course.) The problem still remains that the vast majority of utterances suck, are incredibly circumstantial, or are strictly worse than spells/maneuvers/soulmelds/invocations of equivalent level.
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2011-11-09, 06:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2011
Re: In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
well, yeah. i know that. but still, i remember there was some weird combination of utterances that could kill any non-regenerating monster in the MM without ever touching the dice after rolling initiative, and a few other tricks that worked out really well, if you had access to the right utterances, some of which you'd need to research or get extra in another way. this is at Lv. 20, of course.
78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.
Where did you start yours?
The PCs were already a special forces type unit in a kingdom's military, so the campaign started in the general's office.
Extended Homebrew Signature
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2011-11-09, 06:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2005
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- Earth
Re: In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
It would be interesting to see a Truenamer PRC that focuses on the alteration of a Truename to alter reality.
For example, the Truenamer alters their own true name so that they now have the ability to fly.
Instead of modifying the world around you, it's modifying the very definition of "you" that the world works off of permanently.
Let's see, aim for 10th level entrance.
Stuff like an untyped Truespeak bonus (perhaps equal to HD) as you are simply rewritten to remember and speak Truespeak better. Or perfect flight at your base speed. Or fast healing 1. Or DR. Or True Sight. All as Ex abilities of course.
Maybe capstone it with the ability to use Timeless Body as an Immediate action as you reenforce your true name, making yourself more real than reality and thus ignoring any effect for the duration. It's certainly less broken than gate.
Note to self, remember to only advance utterances on 9/10 levels.
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2011-11-09, 06:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
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Re: In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
That was supposed to be the idea behind Acolyte of the Ego, and to a lesser extent Disciple of the Word. Yep.
Kyeudo's fix rolls them both into one PrC.Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
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2011-11-09, 08:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2008
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- NYC
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2012-07-23, 02:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2009
Re: In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
Wow, thanks for making this handbook Zaq, it's made me want to try out the class for the next character I make. Well actually the one after the next game cause in the game my current group is about to run, we're all making characters for one of the other players at the table (we only get to know the person who we're making the character for) and I dont want to make the guy I'm making a character for, who is rather new to RPG's, scared of truenamers forever . While their are not many Utterances that are great I can't wait for the right situations to use stuff like Archer's Eye and Spell Rebirth
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2012-07-23, 10:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2012
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2012-07-23, 07:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2009
Re: In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
I know Zaq may not have wanted to advertise it, but it does make for a very good loremaster type class, and that is something I've wanted to try for some time now. I'm mostly thanking him for the advice on how to build a truenamer (I didn't know about knowledge devotion before this handbook for one of the many important facts I learned about truenaming) that won't be completley terrible. Plus I want to see if I can get the GM to allow me to use this handbook as my masterwork tool .
Last edited by speeddemon; 2012-07-23 at 07:56 PM.
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2012-07-23, 11:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
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Re: In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
If you can't get a homebrew version of the Truenamer approved, at least ask your DM to let you craft that +30 competence item, an item familiar, or both. You'll need all the help you can get.
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
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2012-07-24, 01:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
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Re: In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
I have plans to create a variant class called the Truespeaker. (Of course, I have many plans, and little motivation to further them.)
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2012-07-24, 02:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2009
Re: In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
I should be able to get a competence item and item familiar from the GM pretty easily, since she's new to GMing and will actually probably be asking me for most rule advice. I don't think the group I'm in is that high in optimization so this class will be a nice way to optimize a character with plenty of flavor without completely outshing everyone else.
Last edited by speeddemon; 2012-07-24 at 02:28 AM.
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2012-07-24, 07:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
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Re: In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
"Great, so now we're countering their experience with our ineptitude."
(That's just where my brain went at the idea of treating the Truenamer's narrowness and weakness as a feature rather than a bug.....)Last edited by willpell; 2012-07-24 at 07:27 AM.
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2012-07-24, 05:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2012
Re: In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
Hi all, thanks for the guide & discussion. I haven't made it past pg 5 yet, but one obvious thought came to mind fairly early: why would anyone think the 2 listed amulets of the silver tongue are an end-all-be all thing?
The class has great troubles, yes, but here is one of the easiest "smoothers out" a DM could do for a player or game including truespeak:
AMULET OF THE SILVER TOGUE
all flavour per TOM pg 263
E bonus Cost caster/creator Level
+1..........100 gp..............1
+2..........400 gp..............2
+3..........900 gp..............3
+4..........1,600 gp...........4
+5..........2,500 gp...........5
+6..........3,600 gp...........6
+7..........4,900 gp...........7
+8..........6,400 gp...........8
+9..........8,100 gp...........9
+10........10,000 gp.........10
+11........12,100 gp.........11
+12.........14,400 gp........12
+13.........16,900 gp........13
+14.........19,600 gp........14
+15.........22,500 gp........15
+16.........25,600 gp........16
+17.........28,900 gp........17
+18.........32,400 gp........18
+19.........36,100 gp........19
+20.........40,000 gp........20
sure, it's a tax, but so are weapons. The warrior's +4 keen, vorpal adamantine scimitar costs 203,315 gp of his 760,000 gp at L20. 40,000 at L20, or even 100 gp at L1, isn't too terrible at all.
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2012-07-24, 05:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2009
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Re: In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
i don't think there's any need for 20 different ones. +5, +10 and +20 (and maybe +30) will do.
Also, fighters don't use scimitars and don't get vorpal on them (But that's beside the point. I agree that 40k is a small fee at high level)Originally Posted by actual quote from this forum
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2012-07-24, 06:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2012
Re: In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
I disagree, I think the class has enough suckatude built in they ought be uping their amulet pretty much every level.
I'd probably house rule the class to be able to craft that specific item (or other slot, within reason, for +50% cost, or slotless for double cost), right from level one up.
I'm not sure what you are getting at about scimitars...but they are used in my games, although cornball, rediculous, make believe weapon types are all banned.
I'm also well aware I don't actually play 3.5/d20 D&D & have no interest in doing so; RAW is full of trash. DM's need to be garbagemen IMHO.
Still, if some warrior type(s)10/dervish 10 with a pair of +4 keen vorpal scimitars is useless or too feeble to be a L20 character in one's game, well, let's just say I'm glad that's not the case for my players.
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2012-07-24, 09:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2011
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Re: In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
That's just a hilarious misuse of wealth, unless you're in some really oddball party with no way to cast Greater Magic Weapon and Keen Edge, and none of the enemies you fight buff themselves or play intelligently.
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2012-07-24, 10:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2005
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Re: In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
NOW COMPLETE: Let's Play Starcraft II Trilogy:
Hell, It's About Time: Wings of Liberty
Does This Mutation Make Me Look Fat: Heart of the Swarm
My Life For Aiur? I Barely Know 'Er: Legacy of the Void
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2012-07-25, 02:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2012
Re: In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
But intelligent foes don't dispel your buffs? LOL.
I'd imagine the party could (& probably did) cast those spells (along with circle of death) making them if desired.
The Glyphstone wrote: "You realize Vorpal was modified in 3.5 to only trigger on natural 20's and not any crit, right? It's the next best thing to worthless if you have to spend money on it."
Yeah. Such a character probably only lops off one head/round in combat.
RAW the keen probably is a waste, but we stack it an improved crit still, as should everyone.
At any rate, let's all just smugly be glad we don't play together & maybe talk about Truenamers?
I think the class is actually quite salvageable, abiet (gasp) needing a great deal of modifications.Last edited by GenghisDon; 2012-07-25 at 02:32 AM. Reason: additional thoughts
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2012-07-25, 03:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
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Re: In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
And how exactly is he making 20 attacks a round, assuming statistically average rolls? Even if he's got a Vorpal in each hand and 20 BAB, that's still only 8 chances each round to roll the 20, and he's probably not hitting on anything but a 20 if he's taking both TWF and iterative penalties (that's assuming that you even get iteratives on your off-hand which I'm not certain is true).
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2012-07-25, 08:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2009
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- Michigan
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Re: In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
Last edited by Lans; 2012-07-25 at 08:29 AM.
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2012-07-25, 08:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
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Re: In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
1 head/round? You'll be extremely lucky if you get 1 head/encounter. And I'd personally still rather those nat 20s go to saving throws myself.
As far as salvaging the Truenamer, have you seen Kyeudo's Fix? (I pimp it every chance I get, it deserves the publicity.)Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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2012-07-25, 09:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
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2012-07-25, 09:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2010
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Re: In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
Guys, I understand that this discussion has become interesting, but you can create a new thread to talk about it if it's important to you. This is a thread about the Truenamer class, and the discussion here by forum rules must be about Truenamers. Show Zaq a little respect, and keep the discussion about his excellent handbook or your experiences with the class.
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2012-07-25, 10:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2012
Re: In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
Sure, 'tis over & never was interesting to start with, Raggedangel . No disrespect was ever intended towards Zaq.
Thanks for the link, Psyren
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2013-01-17, 11:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2013
Re: In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
Sooo, i started playing a true namer a couple weeks ago, thought it looked interesting, argued about many many things with the GM, granted some, denied others, well with the most recent I seem to be denied conjunctive gate, at least the free version, looking at 1k xp a pop for using it now, should I just commit Seppuku and make another character? As far as I was concerned it was a key section of the class, at this point i am wondering if i should just off my self and restart a fresh character.
Looking for some advice on how i could argue it, or if i should give up and call it done.
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2013-01-17, 12:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
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Re: In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
Gate with its normal XP cost is still Gate. As long as the DM only nerfs it into the Bronze age, rather than Stone as I probably would, it should still give the game a good bending at the very least. And if you suffered through 18 levels of misery (1st doesn't count since TNs are almost good by the standards of that level, prior to their TS DCs beginning to skyrocket) to get to Truenamer 20, you deserve something for your trouble.
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2013-01-17, 12:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2008
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- NYC
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Re: In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
Gate in something with nice abilities, order it to fail its next save, then UPD power stones of Mind Switch and Astral Seed, kill yourself, and regenerate as the creature (doing it the other way also works, as Astral Seed explicitly allows you to Mind Switch into someone else's body and then smash the crystal to make it stick).
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2013-01-17, 01:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2007
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- Stillwater
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2013-01-18, 10:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
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2013-01-18, 11:01 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2009
Re: In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
If your regard a class feature you get at level 20 as a key section of a class, then you play a different type of D&D then I do (to borrow an expression by Zaq).
I have currently a level 12 truenamer. He is doing fine. Of course, he doesn't have much in terms of competition: the party members are: a Samurai, a Ninja, a Monk and a Healer, all single classed, all level 12...