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2013-01-14, 11:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
Page 171, its still irritating finding the one exception to the "Ignore Examples" rule
My Homebrew: found here.
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2013-01-15, 02:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
You missed the example in my post, 5 for fireball is for a wizard, it'd be 6 for the Sorc, because he gets spells later that's his minimum.
I said right there in the post that the minimum level for the spell to be cast is dependent on the class casting it not the spell it self.
If your class gives you spells at a different progression it will change what your minimum caster level is, lets take remove curse as an example.
Level: Brd 3, Clr 3, Pal 3, Sor/Wiz 4
Same spell, different minimum caster level for each class.Last edited by TypoNinja; 2013-01-15 at 02:19 AM.
A man once asked me the difference between Ignorance and Apathy. I told him, "I don't know, and I don't care"
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2013-01-15, 02:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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2013-01-15, 03:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
Have we thought of a name for the new thread? I suggest "Well that went well".
Yeesh that would be a massive task. I might be able to whip up a spreadsheet for myself or someone else to maintain, though. (Especially if we get a bunch of collation done by various posters.)Projects: Homebrew, Gentlemen's Agreement, DMPCs, Forbidden Knowledge safety, and Top Ten Worst. Also, Quotes and RACSD are good.
Anyone knows blue is for sarcas'ing in · "Take 10 SAN damage from Dark Orchid" · Use of gray may indicate nitpicking · Green is sincerity
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2013-01-15, 05:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
Last edited by TypoNinja; 2013-01-15 at 05:28 AM.
A man once asked me the difference between Ignorance and Apathy. I told him, "I don't know, and I don't care"
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2013-01-15, 07:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
Class level =/= caster level. A Cleric with the Force domain needs at least three Cleric levels to cast Magic Missile, because that's the level at which she gets a 2nd level domain slot. Generally, a third level Cleric will have a Cleric caster level of three.
However, if that Cleric somehow had the Mage Slayer feat, she could then cast Magic Missiles with a caster level of -1, because she still has a 2nd level domain slot, and there's no rule anywhere saying that you need anything besides an Xth level slot and a casting stat of 10+X in order to cast an Xth level spell.
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2013-01-15, 07:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
If you take the mage slayer feat and try to cast a burning and with a CL of -3, does it give back 3d4 HPs with fire?
Last edited by Pilo; 2013-01-15 at 07:48 AM.
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2013-01-15, 10:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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2013-01-15, 10:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
Open the lid and snatch a homebrewed treat from Cookie's Jar
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Originally Posted by DudeWhyAreAllTheNamesTaken(Imgur)
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2013-01-15, 11:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
Last edited by Chained Birds; 2013-01-15 at 11:10 AM.
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2013-01-15, 11:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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2013-01-15, 11:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
Or "WTF!" More of the Dysfunctional Cules Rollection?
π = 4
Consider a 5' radius blast: this affects 4 squares which have a circumference of 40' — Actually it's worse than that.
Completely Dysfunctional Handbook
Warped Druid Handbook
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2013-01-15, 12:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
Caster level rules:
Horribly worded and Assbackwards phrasing, but on PHB p171, it says specifically that because a wizard has to invest at least 5 CL into 3rd level spells because they get 3rd level spells at 5th level. the rule applies to all classes, so clerics, who get 2nd level spells at third level, have to invest 3CL into magic Missiles, and so does the Divine Crusader, who will only have 2CL at lvl 2, and can only get at maximum CL14, when they are stated to specifically need CL 17 to cast all their spells.My Homebrew: found here.
When you Absolutely, Positively, Gotta Drop some Huge rocks, Accept NO Substitutes
PM Me if you would like a table from my homebrew reconstructed.
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2013-01-15, 02:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
Specifically, the wording is as follows when describing casting a spell at a lower caster level.
You can cast a spell at a lower level than normal, but the caster level you choose must be high enough for you to cast the spell in question, and all level-dependent features must be based on the same caster level
Earlier on page 171.
A spell's power often depends on its caster level, which for most spellcasting characters is equal to your class level in the class you're using to cast the spell.Last edited by Talderas; 2013-01-15 at 02:14 PM.
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2013-01-15, 02:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
actually, no it doesnt, because
The Divine Crusader prepares and casts spells as a clericMy Homebrew: found here.
When you Absolutely, Positively, Gotta Drop some Huge rocks, Accept NO Substitutes
PM Me if you would like a table from my homebrew reconstructed.
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2013-01-15, 02:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
You're wrong about sublime chord, too.
It specifically casts sublime chord spells.Originally Posted by CAr pg 61
In any case, while the intent was clearly that a spellcaster can't cast a spell at a caster level lower than the number of levels in the class granting access to the spell, the absence of an actual minimum caster level rule means that there is no way to call any adjudication of the point unimpeachable RAW. It's a case of RAW doesn't actually exist so we can only use RAI.
On the bright side, that means its still definitely a mechanic that belongs in this thread.Last edited by Kelb_Panthera; 2013-01-15 at 02:31 PM.
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2013-01-15, 02:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
I think it is RAW. The PHB states that the caster level used to cast a spell is equivalent to the class level of the class you're using to cast it. It further goes on to state that you can voluntarily lower the caster level when casting a spell but it may not be lower than what you would have when casting the spell at the earliest.
RAW does not state that a caster cannot caster a spell at a caster level lower than when he would gain it. It only states that the caster cannot voluntarily lower his caster level below what he needs to cast it. The only common mechanism that outright blocks casting a spell of a given spell level is lowering the character's casting attribute below 10+Spell or granting negative levels.Last edited by Talderas; 2013-01-15 at 02:48 PM.
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2013-01-15, 02:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
Originally Posted by SRD
A 7th level Wizard could cast a CL 5 Fireball, but not a CL 4 one.
Because you need to be a level 5 Wizard to cast Fireball.π = 4
Consider a 5' radius blast: this affects 4 squares which have a circumference of 40' — Actually it's worse than that.
Completely Dysfunctional Handbook
Warped Druid Handbook
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2013-01-15, 02:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
No, it doesnt, thats talking about casting a spell slot, not the same issue.
A Sublime Chord can choose spells from the Wizard/Sorcerer and Bard Spell lists (conflict resolution clause)
The PHB has a paragraph example explaining what that rule in the SRD means, and amazingly, it is an example, and not a waste of time. It does state outright that it means that you cant invest less CL then when your given class would be able to cast the spell normally.
This enters huge problems when you have instances such as the Divine crusader where it explains that they cast as though they were a cleric.
Edit: Oh, name for the new thread: "Casters" ~ Additional Dysfunctional rules.Last edited by toapat; 2013-01-15 at 03:03 PM.
My Homebrew: found here.
When you Absolutely, Positively, Gotta Drop some Huge rocks, Accept NO Substitutes
PM Me if you would like a table from my homebrew reconstructed.
Drow avatar @ myself
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2013-01-15, 05:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
π = 4
Consider a 5' radius blast: this affects 4 squares which have a circumference of 40' — Actually it's worse than that.
Completely Dysfunctional Handbook
Warped Druid Handbook
Avatar by Caravaggio
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2013-01-15, 05:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
that paragraph is the only example in the books that i can think of that actually explains anything about the game. Being that there are minimum CL requirements to cast a given spell.
Because of handwaivium, the divine crusader is thus an even worse class then is given on the surface.My Homebrew: found here.
When you Absolutely, Positively, Gotta Drop some Huge rocks, Accept NO Substitutes
PM Me if you would like a table from my homebrew reconstructed.
Drow avatar @ myself
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2013-01-15, 06:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
New thread here
π = 4
Consider a 5' radius blast: this affects 4 squares which have a circumference of 40' — Actually it's worse than that.
Completely Dysfunctional Handbook
Warped Druid Handbook
Avatar by Caravaggio
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2013-01-25, 01:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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2016-08-30, 01:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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2016-08-30, 10:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
Threadcomancy aside...
Test of feat in question:
"Prerequisite: Con 13.
Benefit: You heal ability damage and ability burn damage more quickly than normal. You heal a number of ability points per day equal to 1 + your Constitution bonus."
The feat works off of CON _bonus_ not CON score.
The proposed dysfunction by deuxhero was that you can no longer heal CON damage, as you would be trying to heal 1+"bonus". With CON damage, it is likely your "bonus" is -1 or worse, so you'd heal 1-1 > 0 damage.
So your correction is incorrect.
This is not a dysfunction for a few reasons. The main one being "Feats stop working if you fail to meet the prerequisites". As "CON 13" is a prereq, if you have less than that, then the feat stops functioning, and you heal ability damage as normal.