Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

[Ninjaman]

Terminators aren't most infantry.

This goes for pretty much anything with a 2+ or a ++ of 4 or bettet

[filvento]

What are your thougts about Tomb Blades of The new Necrons?
As weel as Spyders/Scarabs things.
Still triying to figure what to get Scarabs, Tomb Blades or Wraiths.
Pretty hard decisition, About HQ's i think Imotek is the One.
And warriors + Ghostarks are a MUST.

[lord_khaine]

There is a general agreement in this thread that Wraiths are about the strongest cc choice to come out of the new codex.

Also, Imotek is a shiny distraction, Zahndrekh is the real deal.

As for Ghostarc's, people are not quite in agreement about whereever they are worth the bother or not.

[Provengreil]

What are your thougts about Tomb Blades of The new Necrons?
As weel as Spyders/Scarabs things.
Still triying to figure what to get Scarabs, Tomb Blades or Wraiths.
Pretty hard decisition, About HQ's i think Imotek is the One.
And warriors + Ghostarks are a MUST.

Personally, I think tomb blades will be good, but only with shield vanes. They don't have the numbers for reanimation to matter when most anti infantry guns have 3-6 shots and AP 4, or just a huge number of shots. If you want tesla, twin linking is nice, but the gauss weapons are where it's at for them in the end.

I've tried 3 spyders backing up a scarab swarm, and it worked really well, though it must be said my opponent was not very good. still, scarab bases have 3 wounds, eternal warrior, fearless, and 4 entropic attacks, which is death incarnate to vehicles and something to slow down even honor guard squads. maybe. the spyders themselves were underwhelming, but if you pump out a couple scarab bases per spyder and manage to get them in close combat with something largely unable to hurt it, like your basic space marines with no power fist, it'll do well enough for a 50 point model.

Wraiths, to me, seem better than terminators. no 2+ save, but with 2 wounds, T5, sweeping capability, and a 12" move it seems worth it to me. adding 10 points to pretty much always go first is also really powerful IMO.

Imotek seems good, but at his cost, plus the court you're gonna want, that's a lot of investment. fine for the higher games, but I'd leave him out of anything less than 1750.

As for warriors, I've fielded them in 3 different ways now, and my favorite and seemingly most effective was 20 with a phaeron and a ghost ark backup, or at 9, a lord with a res orb, and they ride in a ghost ark, and lastly just 10 in a ghost ark. All told, I find I prefer tesla immortals as troops though, simply because as a troop type, they have no significant need for a harbinger, lord, or phaeron.

EDIT: to put in my 2 credits on the ghost ark itself, I love hurricane bolters. so when i saw the flayer arrays, I loved those too. and armor 13? heck yes!(being open topped, I don't count on surviving the first penetrating hit, so the reduction won't matter) The only issue with it that I see is that it's repair function will probably not get used very much; warriors will often die in large groups, or even all at once. The people killing the warriors will be sure to either sweep them in CC, or if they HAVE to torrent them down, just take the ark before they even bother. so that's kinda wasted points, unfortunately. Still, an armor 13 transport with 2 flayer arrays is not to be discounted.

[lord_khaine]

A couple of minor issues..

Scarabs swarms dont have eternal warrior, also, wraiths only have T4.

[Provengreil]

A couple of minor issues..

Scarabs swarms dont have eternal warrior, also, wraiths only have T4.

sorry, it's the lychguard that have T5, my bad.

also, I could have sworn swarms had vulnerable to templates and eternal warrior as part of their rules. But I seem to have misplaced my rulebook, so I can't check atm.

[IthilanorStPete]

sorry, it's the lychguard that have T5, my bad.

also, I could have sworn swarms had vulnerable to templates and eternal warrior as part of their rules. But I seem to have misplaced my rulebook, so I can't check atm.

No Eternal Warrior, but they do have Stealth - and of course, vulnerable to templates/blasts.

[Cheesegear]

What are your thougts about Tomb Blades of The new Necrons?
As weel as Spyders/Scarabs things.
Still triying to figure what to get Scarabs, Tomb Blades or Wraiths.
Pretty hard decisition, About HQ's i think Imotek is the One.
And warriors + Ghostarks are a MUST.

Here's something I prepared earlier.

Tomb Blades are okay. Outclassed by Destroyers.

Scarabs are bad, unless you want to fly up the board just to eat a tank instead of just paying points for something that can shoot it.
Spyders are neat because Psychic Defense is kind of important.

Wraiths are one the top Assault units in the game. Especially when carrying around a Destroyer Lord. Unfortunately, do to small unit sizes and T4, you need to be able to back up your army with other Assault units. Otherwise they're running up the board by themselves getting Lascannon'd and Long Fanged to death.
In short, Wraiths are amazing if the Codex could support them. Which it kind of doesn't (see Codex: Space Marines and Hammernators). Get lots of Wraiths, and Praetorians. And try and make your entire army as Jump Infantry as possible.

Imotekh doesn't work in armies less than 1750. Requires a second Overlord and two Solar Pulses. Pretty much junk against Infantry armies.

Judging from The Internet and my own experiences, Warriors are not that important. Immortals are far better. The difference is in the armour save and better guns.

Zahndrekh + Court
Triarch Stalkers / C'Tan
Immortals (MSU Night Scythes)
Wraiths (2 max units) and Destroyers
Doom Scythes. Maybe one unit of Spyders.

Here's some more I prepared earlier.

[Renegade Paladin]

This goes for pretty much anything with a 2+ or a ++ of 4 or bettet

Which is... What? Meganobz, Terminators, Obliterators. In short, stuff that's really expensive and no one takes loads of because they cost too much. I don't know about you, but I tote around plenty of AP2 stuff; not everything in the army needs to match it. Strength 6 wounds Toughness 4 on 2+, which is all it really needs to do; against most infantry S10 is just gravy. Anything not multiwound in power armor or worse, which is the majority of infantry in the game, is killed just as dead by a Colossus as a Medusa, and unlike with the Medusa, cover won't save them. They have equivalent costs for a reason, and it's because they do different jobs and do them well. I can do the mathhammer if you want, but I should think this a fairly self-evident proposition.

[iyaerP]

So what do you mean when you say that Codex SM doesn't support hammernators?

The fact that there is no other good dedicated CC unit in the codex? The difficulty of getting them into CC in the first place without the investment in a land raider crusader? They are just weak when compared to GK termies dropped out of stormravens?

[Cheesegear]

The fact that there is no other good dedicated CC unit in the codex? The difficulty of getting them into CC in the first place without the investment in a land raider crusader? They are just weak when compared to GK termies dropped out of stormravens?

All of the above.

[Tome]

So what do you mean when you say that Codex SM doesn't support hammernators?

The fact that there is no other good dedicated CC unit in the codex? The difficulty of getting them into CC in the first place without the investment in a land raider crusader? They are just weak when compared to GK termies dropped out of stormravens?

Actually, Hammernators will stomp GK Termies flat, point for point. The 3++ is sort of a deal breaker.

Paladins are a different matter entirely.

[iyaerP]

Three things:

1: I don't actually play 40k tabletop, so most of my knowledge is from lurking here and in my local gamestore where 40K gets played side-by-side with me playing Puerto-Rico/whatever else is at board-game-night.

2: I wasn't positing a fight between GK termies and SM hammernators, I was more implicating that the GK units are better because a stormraven has the mobility that a landraider really doesn't to put the GKs where they want to be faster.

3: Whats the differnce between GK pallies and GK terminators?

[Renegade Paladin]

Actually, Hammernators will stomp GK Termies flat, point for point. The 3++ is sort of a deal breaker.

Paladins are a different matter entirely.

Why? A thunder hammer will ID them.

3: Whats the differnce between GK pallies and GK terminators?

Terminators have two wounds; that is, you have to wound them and have them fail their armor save twice before they die. Their toughness is only 4, though, and a thunder hammer's strength is 8. There's an instant death rule that says if a model takes a hit from a weapon with S double its T or more, it dies immediately. 4x2=8, so...

[Provengreil]

Three things:

1: I don't actually play 40k tabletop, so most of my knowledge is from lurking here and in my local gamestore where 40K gets played side-by-side with me playing Puerto-Rico/whatever else is at board-game-night.

2: I wasn't positing a fight between GK termies and SM hammernators, I was more implicating that the GK units are better because a stormraven has the mobility that a landraider really doesn't to put the GKs where they want to be faster.

3: Whats the differnce between GK pallies and GK terminators?

for the third, paladins are more expensive but, unless you're strapped for points(whick, being the knights, you are), they're better or at least the same in every way. most notably, they have 2 wounds. still won't help against hammernators, but on non instant death stuff it's better.

As for SM support of the hammernators, they're fantastic for their cost, but It's true they have little synergy. land raiders can be brought down fast, and the only guy that speeds up reserves to teleport them in costs as much as a land raider and is a lot easier to kill. then of course you need to either have a beacon or just trust your deep strike, two strategies seen virtually nowhere outside of chaos marines and daemons in my experience, though I personally tend to trust my dice a bit more.

[Tome]

Three things:

1: I don't actually play 40k tabletop, so most of my knowledge is from lurking here and in my local gamestore where 40K gets played side-by-side with me playing Puerto-Rico/whatever else is at board-game-night.

2: I wasn't positing a fight between GK termies and SM hammernators, I was more implicating that the GK units are better because a stormraven has the mobility that a landraider really doesn't to put the GKs where they want to be faster.

3: Whats the differnce between GK pallies and GK terminators?

Yeah, GK Termies in Stormravens isn't the best idea. They tend to both be more valuable, being scoring, and less durable, due to a lack of 3++ save. They also generally don't mind having to walk so much, gives them time to whittle things down with their shooting.

I'll certainly agree that the GK Termies have more support though.

Paladins, incidentally, are GK Terminators on steroids. Durability goes up thanks to 2 wounds and Feel No Pain, and so does assault ability - mostly due to their increased WS. They're also ridiculously expensive, to the point where the netlist built around them, Draigowing, is basically just 15 Paladins and a couple of HQs.

Why? A thunder hammer will ID them.

WS 5 makes a pretty big difference. Less hits from the hammers, more saves forced by the Pallies.

[iyaerP]

Okay, so that question answered, if codex SM Hammernators are considered good but with poor synergy, why is Deathwing for the Dark angels considered good?

I know that cheesegear listed it earlier along with Draigowing and Sanguinary Guard as good starter armies that are reliable and low-cost.

Just the fact that they are troops is enough to justify it? Or do Dark Angels get some codex-specific rules of DOOM?

[Tome]

Okay, so that question answered, if codex SM Hammernators are considered good but with poor synergy, why is Deathwing for the Dark angels considered good?

I know that cheesegear listed it earlier along with Draigowing and Sanguinary Guard as good starter armies that are reliable and low-cost.

Just the fact that they are troops is enough to justify it? Or do Dark Angels get some codex-specific rules of DOOM?

From what I understand, Troops is one part, Cyclone Missile Launchers for ranged anti-tank is another and Fearless is the third.

[The Glyphstone]

Wraiths are one the top Assault units in the game. Especially when carrying around a Destroyer Lord. Unfortunately, do to small unit sizes and T4, you need to be able to back up your army with other Assault units. Otherwise they're running up the board by themselves getting Lascannon'd and Long Fanged to death.
In short, Wraiths are amazing if the Codex could support them. Which it kind of doesn't (see Codex: Space Marines and Hammernators). Get lots of Wraiths, and Praetorians. And try and make your entire army as Jump Infantry as possible.

Imotekh doesn't work in armies less than 1750. Requires a second Overlord and two Solar Pulses. Pretty much junk against Infantry armies.

What about synergy between Imotekh and Wraiths? You can have them in assault Turn 2 in most cases, so you only need 1 turn of Night Fight to hide them from Lascannons/LongFangs/whatever (yeah, Acute Senses, but they can always roll bad, so it's better than nothing).

[Tychris1]

Just trust your deep strike, two strategies seen virtually nowhere outside of chaos marines and daemons in my experience, though I personally tend to trust my dice a bit more.

You obviously haven't seen my Tyranids then

Deepstriking Trygon/Doom of Malantai go go go

Anyway, as I was staring at my Termagaunts last night and I began wondering about the two Weapons I never use. Spinefists and the flamer template you get per 10 Termagaunts (Codex is missing and I can't remember it as much as Spinefist). So I was wondering what situation would they be useful in/What are your opinions on the two weapons?

[Cheesegear]

Okay, so that question answered, if codex SM Hammernators are considered good but with poor synergy, why is Deathwing for the Dark angels considered good?

I know that cheesegear listed it earlier along with Draigowing and Sanguinary Guard as good starter armies that are reliable and low-cost.

Pretty sure I never said that Draigowing was a good starter army. Deathwing is.

Because Deathwing are Scoring and run around with Cyclones and there are almost always more than one unit of them?

What about synergy between Imotekh and Wraiths?

Yeah, that's fine. But I hope you're playing a high points bracket.

[Renegade Paladin]

You obviously haven't seen my Tyranids then

Deepstriking Trygon/Doom of Malantai go go go

LOL, Doom of Malantai. Excuse me while I keep all my troops in their APCs. At least, that seemed to totally hose it the one time I played against it. (I felt bad that game; the guy playing quit the hobby right there and sold all his models to another player for $40 before leaving.)

[Tychris1]

LOL, Doom of Malantai. Excuse me while I keep all my troops in their APCs. At least, that seemed to totally hose it the one time I played against it. (I felt bad that game; the guy playing quit the hobby right there and sold all his models to another player for $40 before leaving.)

Lol, Would you be so kind as to allow me to send my Trygon to rip open your tin can? You should feel bad though, this isn't a huge hobby and every person we lose is one less player to keep us going. Still that was a bit of a over reaction, did the player have any anti Vehicle weapons to pop them open?

[Provengreil]

does the doom itself not come with that lance power?

[Renegade Paladin]

Lol, Would you be so kind as to allow me to send my Trygon to rip open your tin can? You should feel bad though, this isn't a huge hobby and every person we lose is one less player to keep us going. Still that was a bit of a over reaction, did the player have any anti Vehicle weapons to pop them open?

He got exactly one kill point; a Leman Russ Executioner via melee Carnifex, which I promptly shot to death thereafter. There was a Trygon involved too, but it was also shot to death. If he had anything else that could reliably hurt tanks, I don't know about it, because it was all shot to death soon after crossing midfield.

I was just his last game in the tournament; he'd apparently gotten roflstomped in the preceding ones as well. You may note that I say I always lose; I'm not kidding and everyone in my club knows it. If my self-hating cube of dice and I manage to stomp someone into the ground, he's not very good at this, to put it mildly.

[Provengreil]

He got exactly one kill point; a Leman Russ Executioner via melee Carnifex, which I promptly shot to death thereafter. There was a Trygon involved too, but it was also shot to death. If he had anything else that could reliably hurt tanks, I don't know about it, because it was all shot to death soon after crossing midfield.

I was just his last game in the tournament; he'd apparently gotten roflstomped in the preceding ones as well. You may note that I say I always lose; I'm not kidding and everyone in my club knows it. If my self-hating cube of dice and I manage to stomp someone into the ground, he's not very good at this, to put it mildly.

you and I should have a match: I regularly fight my own dice harder than my opponent.

[Tome]

you and I should have a match: I regularly fight my own dice harder than my opponent.

My dice, meanwhile, just love me.

Probably because they know what happens if they don't.

[filvento]

How does Force weapon of Gk works? I mean a guy just killed 11 Scarabs of mine with instant death with a group of 5 GK's. With a librarian all psikers with force weapons.

[Renegade Paladin]

How does Force weapon of Gk works? I mean a guy just killed 11 Scarabs of mine with instant death with a group of 5 GK's. With a librarian all psikers with force weapons.

They work like all other force weapons. Page 50 of the main rulebook.

[filvento]

Yea but they ALL strike with that force weapon? Cause isnt just 3 psichycs per Unit? if he has 11 Gks, the 11 Gks attack with that force weapon rule? And kjust one rollcheck? Its OP.