Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

[Arcanoi]

Oh right, they can only use Night Scythes. Well, back to drawing board then.

Well, you could pair the squad of Immortals with an objective-camping squad of Warriors and just put the Immortals in the Arc you take for the Warriors...

This is what see as most of a problem with Necron transports. Anything with a reliable number of lascannons (say, two per Necron transport) will absolutely destroy it, because AV 13 is going down in first round, and they are not DE with their 5 and more vehicles on board.

Indeed. The Necron Vehicles are absurdly well armed (The Night Scythe has a Tesla Destructor, rather than something useful like Quantum Shielding to fit it being a transport) but schizophrenic because they can't flat-out, like Fast Skimmers want to, while firing.

[Ricky S]

This is what see as most of a problem with Necron transports. Anything with a reliable number of lascannons (say, two per Necron transport) will absolutely destroy it, because AV 13 is going down in first round, and they are not DE with their 5 and more vehicles on board.

Chances are you will need more like 4 or 5 lascannon shots per vehicle to take it out. You have to hit it, then penetrate it and then still roll on the damage chart. So that means that most people will be able to take out probably one or two transports in the first turn.

[Squark]

Oh right, they can only use Night Scythes. Well, back to drawing board then.

On other hand,

This is what see as most of a problem with Necron transports. Anything with a reliable number of lascannons (say, two per Necron transport) will absolutely destroy it, because AV 13 is going down in first round, and they are not DE with their 5 and more vehicles on board.

EDIT:
Idea emerged as soon as I opened Codex.

HQ (not relevant for this, let's say Overlord on Command Barge)
5 Warriors, Cryptek with Harbringer of Storms
Ghost Arc

Now take 5 of those units. That totals to 1155 points. Rest are probably Elites/Heavy Support.

OK, now we got decent anti-infantry (50 Gauss flayers) and goodish anti tank (25 Haywire shots per turn). A way of making Necron MSU work?

Not completely sure about how Crypteks work, but I think you can have only one cryptek of each harbinger upgrade in an overlord's royal court, and I'm not sure if there are other ways to get a cryptek. Also, I do not know if you can give your overlord a royal court if he's in a command barge.

[Arcanoi]

Not completely sure about how Crypteks work, but I think you can have only one cryptek of each discipline in an overlord's royal court, and I'm not sure if there are other ways to get a cryptek.

You can have any number of a given type of Cryptek in your army, but only one of any of the Harbinger upgrades. So only one Gaze of Flame, or Harp of Dissonance or Veil of Darkness.

[Sila Prirode]

Not completely sure about how Crypteks work, but I think you can have only one cryptek of each discipline in an overlord's royal court, and I'm not sure if there are other ways to get a cryptek. Also, I do not know if you can give your overlord a royal court if he's in a command barge.

Arcanoi already answered the number of Harbringers, and I can't really find that rule about the barge, so I guess it is allowed. Now, after more reading, I think the best thing to add to above list would be 2 Doomsday Arks, which would bring two S9 AP 1 Large blasts per turn. This can act as a Lascannon shot against Mech lists, or as a pie plate against anything that isn't in vehicle.

[filvento]

A point is that You are not going to use Ghost arks full of warriors for mechanized units. Doomsday Ark is pretty nasty too.
Ghost arks are still cool with 10 warriors on it. 2 of them. You can kill any marine unit. Besides, why u cant fire if you moved at cruiser speed?

Cruising speed + Rapid fire? Why not.

[Renegade Paladin]

Indeed. The Necron Vehicles are absurdly well armed (The Night Scythe has a Tesla Destructor, rather than something useful like Quantum Shielding to fit it being a transport) but schizophrenic because they can't flat-out, like Fast Skimmers want to, while firing.

...

You realize that flat-out precludes firing weapons even if you aren't Necrons, right?

A point is that You are not going to use Ghost arks full of warriors for mechanized units. Doomsday Ark is pretty nasty too.
Ghost arks are still cool with 10 warriors on it. 2 of them. You can kill any marine unit. Besides, why u cant fire if you moved at cruiser speed?

Cruising speed + Rapid fire? Why not.

For the same reason you can't fire when you run and the vehicle can't fire when it moves cruising speed. Land Raiders can fire one weapon at cruising speed because they have a special rule for it. Unless Ghost Arks are fast vehicles. If they are, I'm not clear on how Fast and transport capacity work together.

[Arcanoi]

...

You realize that flat-out precludes firing weapons even if you aren't Necrons, right?

The point is that other fast Skimmers are cheaper because they're less heavily armed. The Night Scythe is a fast skimmer for 100 points toting what is essentially two TL-Autocannons that have a chance of hitting up to twelve times. It even has a rule that allows it to go at Cruising Speed and fire everything. But it also has a rule that lets it Flat-Out 36" and if you want to use it as a transport, you want to be Flat-Outing up the board for the cover save. Thus, for the first turn at least, your gun that you payed ~50 points for is wasted. Thinking on that now, though...

Spoiler

Show

[b]HQ[/b}

Imotekh the Stormlord - 305pts
- Catacomb Command Barge

Troops

Necron Warriors x5 - 165pts
- Night Scythe

Necron Warriors x5 - 165pts
- Night Scythe

Necron Warriors x5 - 165pts
- Night Scythe

Necron Warriors x5 - 165pts
- Night Scythe

Necron Warriors x5 - 165pts
- Night Scythe

Necron Warriors x5 - 165pts
- Night Scythe

Heavy Support

Doom Scythe - 175pts

Doom Scythe - 175pts

Doom Scythe - 175pts

Total: 1820

Which gives you room for a bunch of Scarabs or a Triarch Stalker or something like that.

[Renegade Paladin]

I run Hellhounds and Devil Dogs in my army, and they have big guns that they can't shoot when they go flat-out. Now, they're tanks, so they can ram things with 18" of movement behind them and be about as effective as a Demolisher round to the face, but even without that (which I tend to save for after they've had their guns shot off) at the end of the day I don't feel they're worth less for having Fast and their assortment of heavy weapons, because while firepower is good, firepower where it needs to be is even better. My Hellhound has saved games against majority-Terminator forces that it would have a hard time burning to death by staying behind a rock in the back until turn 5 and then tearing off to contest the nearest objective.

Now, being a Guard player who doesn't (yet) use Valkyries, I don't have a lot of experience with how this plays with skimmers, but I have to note that Vendettas are nigh-universally declared awesome and yet are fast skimmer transports with multiple heavy weapons.

[filvento]

Night schyte could be cool thou but. Once you reach your enemy with all the night shytes and you have your warriors out. Yes you shoot. You not gonna kill everthing, next turn you get wreckled or charged.
Besides.. when you play with imotek thats atleast 2 or 3 turns playing with Night Rules.. What do you want a Doomsday for? You not gonna be able to reach anyhting.

I would play Ghost arksx2 A doom schyte Monolith. Imotek, wraiths.. Idk.. Still hard to get a list.

[Cheesegear]

After having the Codex for a few days, and checking the internet for a couple of clarifications (Are Ghost Arks worth it?), my review of the Necron Codex is summed up as;

"What if Dark Eldar were slower?" (in other words; What if Dark Eldar were bad?)

Shooty units are shooty. Assaulty units are Assaulty. But there's not a whole lot that can do both. Vehicles are flimsy and durable at the same time and able to dish out some power. Ghost Arks are phenomenally important, but get targeted quickly because opponents aren't stupid. I'm of the opinion that Necrons are in the power-scale of Codex Marines, rather than Blood Angels or Space Wolves.

Due to the "That unit must die!" mentality that Reanimation encourages, I'm expecting Vindicators to maybe come back in the meta-game for a while because AV13 is good. Heavy Flamers and Flamestorms should see more play (Cheesegear says as if they don't already feature in most armies).

And...Yeah. Sweeping Advance just got even more important. So Terminators are once again less valuable than they used to be. Hooray! Riflemen Dreads are going to take a beating, and I'm unsure what Codex Marines are going to replace them with to deal with Necrons. Maybe it's back to the TLAC/DCCW-HF combo?

Maybe I'll do the whole Codex review in a few days. Necrons seem to be more exciting than Grey Knights so I'm actually expecting to get a few games in, so maybe I'll learn some things on the table instead of 'in theory'.
(I don't know why it is. But my meta-game isn't impressed with Grey Knights)

[Ninjaman]

So i came up with an army idea for kill team:

Deathleaper
6 sporemines.

Due to ''every man for himself'' the mines drop individually, to mess with the enemy, and becourse i got points. And most importantly the sporemines are ignored for the purpourse of mission objectives, so i won't have to take ld if 4 die.

Death leaper jumps down into cover, shoots something, jumps out. Repeat. If the enemy is down to half, just jump him into a place the enemy can't reach and pray that he fails his ld. I Deathleaper dies you lose. Deathleaper can also reduce ld of one enemy, this will help him failing his ld.

[One Step Two]

Another thing to mention on the ghost-ark, it has living metal too, so it's got decent odds on going to get it's licks in if you're smart about cover and minimise damage, but to be honest, it's not a small model in any regards, so opponents will know to shoot the ever-loving snot out of it, as Cheese already mentioned.

Maybe I'll do the whole Codex review in a few days. Necrons seem to be more exciting than Grey Knights so I'm actually expecting to get a few games in, so maybe I'll learn some things on the table instead of 'in theory'.
(I don't know why it is. But my meta-game isn't impressed with Grey Knights)

Because, quite frankly, the Grey Knights are boring. They were the shiny golden boys before, and they still are. Still expensive and small elite army, still the same psychic dominators as before, just with a little more shiny ontop. What made them interesting, the ability to take Inquisition Storm-troopers, and the ability to use allied armies, is gone and we're worse off for it.
The necrons however, got a lore re-boot, some people like it, some don't, but regardless of the fluff, they have some fancy new options that are begging to be tried out. In many ways, the new Necron Codex is a brand new army, it's playstyle changed heavily from what it used to boast, and lets face it, Phase Out sucked, and it's gone.

As a note of things to try out:

Catacomb command barges are an open-topped skimming vehicle.
Put a lord with warscythe and nothing else in there, fly over a unit, lop some heads off, shoot it, then hop out and assault.

Canoptek Wraiths: Have we mentioned these? I want to mention these. They have rending now, oh, and they can upgrade to get Lash-whips (anything in base contact gets Iniative 1). Posse them up with a destroyer lord and enjoy yourselves.

[Ricky S]

What made them interesting, the ability to take Inquisition Storm-troopers, and the ability to use allied armies, is gone and we're worse off for it.

But they still have henchmen. Indeed some of the most interesting armies I have played against are full henchmen armies with a few units of greyknights.

[Cheesegear]

But they still have henchmen. Indeed some of the most interesting armies I have played against are full henchmen armies with a few units of greyknights.

The Monkey Army of DOOOOM!!!

[One Step Two]

But they still have henchmen. Indeed some of the most interesting armies I have played against are full henchmen armies with a few units of greyknights.

Yes, this is true, but I think the idea of needing to take a specific HQ to change the army dynamic more than a few special rules is absurd. Coteaz is cool, but I don't want to have the exact same Inquisitor to do that, any Inquisitor Lord should grant that. It may sound peevish, but frankly, the whole thing felt tacked on, like
"oh, hey we forgot to add inquisitors and inquisitoin troops to this codex."
"Yeah... lets just stack it on a special character and call it a day."

EDIT:

The Monkey Army of DOOOOM!!!

My favourite variation on it, is the Barrel of Monkeys(tm) Take 2 monkeys, and 3 weapon servitors, pop them into a chimera, add an inquisitor, shake well, and destroy all the things.

[banjo1985]

Canoptek Wraiths: Have we mentioned these? I want to mention these. They have rending now, oh, and they can upgrade to get Lash-whips (anything in base contact gets Iniative 1). Posse them up with a destroyer lord and enjoy yourselves.

They are a pretty big improvement on the previous rules. 5 points less for an extra wound, rending, and a bigger max unit size. Bit of a nerf to their mobility, but they still have the 3++, so all-in-all a good improvement. I2 is going to be an issue without the lash-whip like upgrade, but with 3++ that's slightly less important, as long as they only get thrown at units that don't have a large number of attacks. Torrenting will take Wraiths out fast, as it always used to. As you say, a great place to put a Destroyer Lord.

I'm away from my codex, but do they get Entropic Strike as well? Im so then that makes them super viable. If not, they'll struggle to displace big units of Scarab's in my initial list plans.

[Ninjaman]

Do anybody have any comments on my kill team list. Does it sound reasonable, stupid, brilliant?

[Etcetera]

Do anybody have any comments on my kill team list. Does it sound reasonable, stupid, brilliant?

Kill-team still exists?

[banjo1985]

I'm not sure that it exits officially (GW hate the idea you'd want to play a game with only a few models, where's the profit for them in that?), but the rules are readily available on the internet and there are still plenty of people that play it I think.

Well, I've heard it said that Deathleaper is pretty useless in the context of a normal game, but Kill Team's is a completely different kettle of aardvarks. A stealthy Lictor might excel in such small scale skirmish games where models are going to be spread out. I don't know how Spore Mines work, so I can't really comment further. Would also be a good idea to give Deathleaper a nice special rule as one of the three you can use on your team, I'm thinking Furious Charge or Preferred enemy maybe?

I'm trying Kill Teams later this week myself, now I've finally got a few of my DE painted:

5 Warriors
Blaster
Raider
120 pts

3 Reavers
Heat Lance
78 pts

The idea is to have the Reavers turbo boost over individual models every turn unless there's a good Heat Lance target. The Warriors disembark from the Raider immediately and spread out, hopefully the Blaster will deal with any pesky Terminators or Meganobs that take to the field. The Raider is there pretty much just to attract fire, and well, a Dark Lance is never a bad thing to have floating around.

[Etcetera]

I'm not sure that it exits officially (GW hate the idea you'd want to play a game with only a few models, where's the profit for them in that?), but the rules are readily available on the internet and there are still plenty of people that play it I think.

Well, I've heard it said that Deathleaper is pretty useless in the context of a normal game, but Kill Team's is a completely different kettle of aardvarks. A stealthy Lictor might excel in such small scale skirmish games where models are going to be spread out. I don't know how Spore Mines work, so I can't really comment further. Would also be a good idea to give Deathleaper a nice special rule as one of the three you can use on your team, I'm thinking Furious Charge or Preferred enemy maybe?

I'm trying Kill Teams later this week myself, now I've finally got a few of my DE painted:

5 Warriors
Blaster
Raider
120 pts

3 Reavers
Heat Lance
78 pts

The idea is to have the Reavers turbo boost over individual models every turn unless there's a good Heat Lance target. The Warriors disembark from the Raider immediately and spread out, hopefully the Blaster will deal with any pesky Terminators or Meganobs that take to the field. The Raider is there pretty much just to attract fire, and well, a Dark Lance is never a bad thing to have floating around.

Uh, these then?

'cos they say "No models with an armour value permitted". Or are you playing a different version?

[hamishspence]

the Battle Missions book has a Kill Team mission.

Each side selects a 200 pt army (0-1 HQ, 0-2 Troops, 0-1 Fast Attack) and is played on a 3 to 4 ft square board. All models operate as individual units. In an assault each model may split up attacks among eligable units.

Each army may give 3 models a Universal Special Rule each (no Universal Special Rule may be taken more than once.

[banjo1985]

My friend suggested Kill Teams, so not sure what set of rules he's using. No problem with the no transports though, gives me room for a minimum size squad of Incubi.

That is the one issue with Kill Teams I guess; there are a lot of sets of rules out there, all of them slightly different. Does the Battle Missions version allow transports? I'm making a guess that this is the set we're using on Friday.

[Ninjaman]

Uh, these then?

'cos they say "No models with an armour value permitted". Or are you playing a different version?

the Battle Missions book has a Kill Team mission.

Each side selects a 200 pt army (0-1 HQ, 0-2 Troops, 0-1 Fast Attack) and is played on a 3 to 4 ft square board. All models operate as individual units. In an assault each model may split up attacks among eligable units.

Each army may give 3 models a Universal Special Rule each (no Universal Special Rule may be taken more than once.

Yeah the battle mission ones, but these are much the same. And the special rules are optional. I think these are like an amandment. It makes good sense since the only differences are the limatations on choices (no zoans!) and army specific changes (No instictive behavior, yay!)

[hamishspence]

as far as I can tell, it does. However, it also states "in Kill Team, the more terrain the better"- so that needs to be remembered when selecting them.

[banjo1985]

Okay thanks, at least a Raider doesn't have a big footprint! And cover saves shouldn't be difficult to manage.

[Cheesegear]

That is the one issue with Kill Teams I guess; there are a lot of sets of rules out there, all of them slightly different.

My favorite set of Kill Team rules is called Necromunda. It's a totally free rules-set and everything.

[Ricky S]

The first time I played against monkey's they got the extra 12" range. So my opponent had 36" multi meltas. It was a rude shock to my baal predator. I have also played against an entire monkey army. They have a ridiculous amount of shooting. My opponent had about 50 lascannons flying at my first turn.

What do you guys think of a blendertron in a drop pod in a mechanised blood angels army? Would it work?

[Etcetera]

My favorite set of Kill Team rules is called Necromunda. It's a totally free rules-set and everything.

I agree, but it's so drearily hard to find people and a venue that will support a campaign that lasts longer than one battle.

[Trixie]

What do you guys think of a blendertron in a drop pod in a mechanised blood angels army? Would it work?

No, unless you land of 3 of them.

I agree, but it's so drearily hard to find people and a venue that will support a campaign that lasts longer than one battle.

Speaking of finding people, someone haven't been online for a long time :P