Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

[Talkkno]

I still see merit in supporting a ball of 2+/3++ death to everything that will not die no matter how many lascannons, battle cannons, demolisher cannons, multilasers, autocannons, plasma guns, and oh, so many lasguns are shot in its direction.

Lemen Russ Demolishers?

[Provengreil]

Bad.



Bad.
Justifying a bad unit by taking more bad choices doesn't make it good. And I know you've already been told this.

you did, but as Renegade Paladin said, this particular assertion is circular. There is tactical value in the assault terminator, else they wouldn't be something so often held up as a comparison model, this unit or that unit is better/worse than hammernators. so the question is: If you have about 300 points, give or take, in terminators, why wouldn't you be willing to spend a few more to give yourself a good chance of not scattering upon deep strike, should you choose to teleport them? you already pointed to locator beacons as something worth taking when discussion the gate of infinity, they can use this too, or even be the squad with the librarian. They aren't unsupported, you just say that any way the army supports them is bad...because they're supporting a unit that is bad...for lack of support.

Or did I misunderstand something? if so, then tell me, what would be support for this unit?

Just a wondering, is there an exeption to this?

Not really, the only thing in debate is whether the choices are bad to begin with. once you accept that a given choice is objectively bad, making that choice harder is worse outside of a few pocket scenarios. Look at the hammernator example currently in discussion, and accept cheesegear's conclusions that they, and their support objects, are bad. Now, with that in mind, consider the following plan:

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turn 1: drop in 2 drop pods with tactical squads, each equipped with a teleport homer among any other gear, and riding in pods with teleport homers. as they come in, they get some small arms fire going and support from anything heavy in the background, lets call it 2 thunderfire cannons.

turn 2 or 3: the terminators come in, ready to whomp anything still standing, as it'll be (hopefully) somewhat ragged from previous fighting, fighting that probably isn't over if you've done it right. also in these turns, a third tactical squad comes in to either help with the fight of grab a couple objectives, as the situation demands.

turn 4+: cleanup, remove enemy troops/tanks as mission demands with extreme prejudice. final blows on tanks or MCs should be scored in these rounds.

turn 5+: grab any objectives, and get those terminators swinging again, anything they can reach.

sounds OK on paper I suppose. But, remember to assume the terminators are a bad choice. now you've spent ~100 points on supporting wargear to support this bad choice, just burying yourself deeper. you've also formulated an entire game plan on this same unit. So, if you accept that the terminators are bad, that plan is crap, and gonna make you lose. now, If this same plan actually goes as listed, you may well be thanking yourself for dropping those points to make entirely sure the terminators went where you wanted them to. to recap, if you think a unit is bad, and another unit/wargear paired with it is bad, don't take them; you'll think the result is bad every time. But you have to first reach the conclusion that the unit/gear is, in fact, bad.

[Ricky S]

The problem with hammernators is that in codex marines they really dont have a good way to enter the game. Deepstriking leaves them open to a turn of shooting or a mishap. Land Raiders are expensive hunks of metal that blow up just as easily as any other tank. Storm ravens would be ideal but codex marines dont get them. They would be great in blood angels except hammernators are not needed at all as someone already said. There is a plethora of melta and powerfists in blood angel armies already.

I personally prefer regular termies in codex marine armies. They are as shooty as the rest of the army and can pack a punch in close combat as well, in the form of a powerfist. They also dont have to worry about deepstriking as much because they can land further away and still put on the hurt.

All that being said they are still terminators with storm shields, they can survive a lot of punishment. I have seen games where they have walked through the entire enemy army with not one dying.

[Renegade Paladin]

Lemen Russ Demolishers?

Demolisher cannons are on that list, are they not? Lascannons and plasma guns, no less deadly to 2+ infantry, are also on the list. Sadly, 3++ does wonders.

[horngeek]

Starting a Grey Knights army this coming year...

So, first things first. In a 1000 point army of Grey Knights, how much of it do you guys think should be dedicated to Troops (i.e. Terminators) and what else do you think I should get?

Not sure what to name my Brother-Captain, though...

[Cheesegear]

There is tactical value in the assault terminator, else they wouldn't be something so often held up as a comparison model, this unit or that unit is better/worse than hammernators.

Comparing is Theory-Hammer. Not conducive to the actual game. Hammernators are used as a comparison model outside of the game. In 1v1 scenarios where Hammernators really shine. In the game proper, Hammernators are rarely - if ever - used as examples, and only as Deathwing or Blood Angels in Stormravens.

At best, Hammernators are used as Bubble Wrap to stop your opponent assaulting your Predators and Razorbacks.

If you have about 300 points, give or take, in terminators, why wouldn't you be willing to spend a few more to give yourself a good chance of not scattering upon deep strike, should you choose to teleport them?

Because Wraith already pointed out, you can use those 300 points to spend on other things, then use those extra points that you'd spend on extra things on even more things.

you already pointed to locator beacons as something worth taking when discussion the gate of infinity, they can use this too, or even be the squad with the librarian.

Yeah...For Sternguard who can shoot out of a Gate. Or Bikes with Meltas. Or Shootynators with Cyclones. Not for Hammernators.

Or did I misunderstand something? if so, then tell me, what would be support for this unit?

Under Codex Marines, there is no support for Hammernators. You can't make them Scoring (Death/Logan/GK-wing), they're expensive (take anything else), they don't shoot (you're Codex Marines), and they're slow (they're an Assault unit -_-).

They don't fit in a Mech list (Land Raiders are too expensive and don't do much), and for Infantry-lists, again, Hammernators don't shoot, and are expensive. Which is terrible for Infantry lists who want as many models on the board as possible - which also rules out Deep Striking anything that isn't exactly one Drop Pod.

In an All-In list you'd better be taking Lysander or Thunderfire Cannons, because they give you 3+ cover saves. Which are nearly as good as Invulnerables, as I can only think of 3 things off my head that ignore cover and AP3 at the same time.

Sternguard (x5) - 155-170 Points
x2 Lascannons

Combi-Plasmas to suit. You could also take Plasma Cannons instead of Lascannons to be cheaper for a more 'all around' unit. Put a Power Fist on the Sergeant for insurance and you're still cheaper than Hammernators. Again, with Lysander or a Thunderfire, these guys have a 3+ Cover Save and will destroy pretty much anything put in front of them. Add Pedro and/or more models for fun Scoring times.

The only time to take Hammernators is with the inclusion of Special Characters.

He'Stan. Makes Hammers better. But also makes HF/MM Dreads better too. And those things are ridiculously cheap.
Kor'Sarro. Outflank in a Land Raider. The Land Raider doesn't get shot, the Hammernators don't get shot. And on the turn they arrive (exact same chance to arrive as if they had Deep Struck) they can actually do something. Kor'Sarro also gives Furious Charge to the Lightning Claws if you have some (you should). And this is only providing that you don't have Kor'Sarro on a Bike with Command Squad.
Shrike; Infiltrate 10 of them. Your opponent can not deal with this.

Interestingly enough, those are the top 3 Special Characters (in order) for Codex Marines.

Starting a Grey Knights army this coming year...

So, first things first. In a 1000 point army of Grey Knights, how much of it do you guys think should be dedicated to Troops (i.e. Terminators) and what else do you think I should get?

Not sure what to name my Brother-Captain, though...

As a rule of thumb the number of Troops should be (Points/500)+1, regardless of how many points each unit costs.

Strike Squads are cheap. Terminators not so much. Terminators are only good when you can have lots of them (this includes Hammernators), which probably isn't always going to be the case, especially in 1000 points.

[horngeek]

So, what. Take just Strike Squads? Or maybe a squad of Terminators to accompany the Brother-Captain?

I know what he's going to be in terms of wargear already- I'm going to use the model of the Brother-Captain with a Nemesis Force Halberd.

[Cheesegear]

So, what. Take just Strike Squads? Or maybe a squad of Terminators to accompany the Brother-Captain?

I know what he's going to be in terms of wargear already- I'm going to use the model of the Brother-Captain with a Nemesis Force Halberd.

Here's an attempt at 1000 points. Little-to-no Conversions required and you shouldn't have to go bitz hunting.

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Brother-Captain - 185 Points
Incinerator, Nemesis Force Halberd
Brain Mines, Rad Grenades

Terminators (x5) - 225 Points
x4 Halberds, x1 Hammer, Psycannon

Strike Squad (x10) - 295 Points
x2 Psycannons, x2 Hammers, x3 Halberds
+ Rhino

Strike Squad (x10) - 295 Points
x2 Psycannons, x2 Hammers, x3 Halberds
+ Rhino

1000 Points.

I don't know how the Brother-Captain model fits together (I use Stern and/or Draigo model), but hopefully the Incinerator from the Terminator box isn't too hard to attach.

Solid core to the force. Not great. Model count is small, but you're GKs so don't expect a lot of models anyway. Psychic Communion on the Brother-Captain is generally invaluable if you plan on Deep Striking, personally I'd try to hide the Terminators behind the Rhinos, and your first upgrade to your army should be a Stormraven, quite easily taking it into the 1250 mark.

Combat Squad-wise, two Psycannons in the back, the 3/2 Halberds and Hammers go hunting in the Rhino.

[horngeek]

Thanks!

Still need to come up with a name for the Brother-Captain, though...

And yeah, I'm not good at conversions.

[Ricky S]

Cheesegear you wouldn't take a librarian instead?

[Hootman]

Still need to come up with a name for the Brother-Captain, though...

Personally, I prefer to name my models AFTER they do something to earn one. If I wasn't posting from my phone, I'd dig up the heroic sacrifice of Captain Han Salio that could have won me the game with a tiny bit more luck.

Edit: Found it. He had his name as of the following post.

Cheesegear you wouldn't take a librarian instead?

It's possible he would, but Horngeek specified having (or wanting) a Halberdier Brother Captain. At such low points, GK Librarians may not have the same punch or utility as thdy do at higher ones. I know they have to buy their powers, but the Brother Captain being more useful and/or cheaper is just speculative (never played with Grey Knights, haven't gotten around to memorizing that book yet).

[Trixie]

Starting a Grey Knights army this coming year...

So, first things first. In a 1000 point army of Grey Knights, how much of it do you guys think should be dedicated to Troops (i.e. Terminators) and what else do you think I should get?

Not sure what to name my Brother-Captain, though...

I'd... Advise against BC, actually. In big games, Grand Masters are much better, in small, like 1000 points game, 1 or 2 Ordo Malleus Terminator Inquisitors with Psycannon provide by far biggest bang for the points. BC is not actually worth it, if you just want to have such model use him as Anval Thawn instead.

Plus, with BC high I, sword giving him 3++ might actually be a better choice, halberd is mostly useless.

I'm also not convinced about CG advice, IMHO, all SSquads need is one Hammer, key to them is keeping them cheap and shooting, not buying tons of expensive wargear. Also, Incinerator on BC seems like a waste of BS to me, and if you want to go that route, I'd advice for Psycannon on BC, and Incinerator on Terminators.

Yes we do: Buy Logan Grimnar to change Wolf Guard from Elites into Troops, then buy all your Wolf Guard Terminator armor. The internet has dubbed this "Loganwing".

Technically, Loganwing is just Wolf Guard squads, and indeed, most popular lists with them have only 1/5 of then in TDA.

Space Wolves Wolf Guard can be built as Hammernators (or with a different weapon, but keeping the crucial part, the stormshield), but they are more expensive than Grey Knight Termies

They're more expensive than Paladins. By a lot. Which says volumes about how 'good' they are.

Minor correction there, GK Terminators are scoring by default. No need for a Grand Master.

...I cannot help but wonder why internet always insists on using GM to make things scoring, when there are better choices you can take to make scoring units more powerful, but oh, well.

our biggest psychic power users are nids, because of feel no pain hive tyrants and zoanthropes, and grey knights because...well, grey knights.

Um... How exactly FNP helps against Perils?

The problem with hammernators is that in codex marines they really dont have a good way to enter the game. Deepstriking leaves them open to a turn of shooting or a mishap. Land Raiders are expensive hunks of metal that blow up just as easily as any other tank. Storm ravens would be ideal but codex marines dont get them.

Technically, there's Caestus assault ram. Damn thing needs to be 50-75 pts cheaper, though.

[Tren]

Technically, there's Caestus assault ram. Damn thing needs to be 50-75 pts cheaper, though.

I hope you mean 50-75pts cheaper, and with worse stats. As is it's a Supersonic vehicle with comparable survivability to a Land Raider that can hold more terminators than any other non-super heavy vehicle in the game. It even gets an Ordnance Ap1 ram, even though you'll probably never use it. It's a hefty chunk of points to be sure, but it's a hefty chunk of vehicle.

[evisiron]

So I got to play an ETC ranked tournament last weekend with my "battlewagons, Ghazzy and Snikrot" list.
Here is a very quick summary of how it went:

Game 1 vs Grey Knights

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Capture and control against a pretty popular list: Coteaz, strike squads in rhinos, some purifiers, triple psyrifleman dreads.
He pounded my army hard but had left himself overextended and unable to contest his home objective when a Nob, a boy and Big Mek dashed the last little bit to capture.

Result: Win

Game 2 vs Space Wolves

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Standard Mech space wolf list with triple Long Fangs that underestimated the speed of battle wagons plus Ghazzy Waaagh, almost everything engaged by turn 2. He pulled back a little near the end but couldn't kill enough Orks after the initial assault hit.

Result: Win

Game 3 vs All Infantry Imperial Guard

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Painted to a good standard no less! 3 giant blobs of infantry with little command groups and the like, in a kill points mission. He makes the mistake of popping in right beside me with Outflank special character and friends, hoping to wreck battlewagons early. This means I can engage his giant units on an almost individual basis with my whole force.

The humans are killed to a man.

Result: Win

Note: This won us the Bloodiest Battle Award for having something like 250 dead models between us!

Day 2

Game 4 vs Eldar

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An Eldar Mech list. I'd been dreading this. Thankfully his skimmers can't pass the 3+ anti Ramming roll and one by one they get crushed by the battlewagons, and the Orks have a great time ripping up the gooey centres.

Result: Win

Game 5 vs Grey Knights

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A different Grey Knight player, but an almost identical list. It's kill points and is a hard fought battle, but eventually the game ends with me several kill points ahead.

Result: Win

Final Result:

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Glorius victory, 1st place of 30. I walk away with a large trophey, an abundance of vouchers, a bottle of champagne and a smile on my face.

[Ninjaman]

Personally, I prefer to name my models AFTER they do something to earn one. If I wasn't posting from my phone, I'd dig up the heroic sacrifice of Captain Han Salio that could have won me the game with a tiny bit more luck.

Edit: Found it. He had his name as of the following post.

Nids can't do that

And when finding names for characters i just pick something i think sound cool.

[Timberwolf]

I don't name my characters, but if I did, it'd be something appropriate to a feat on the tabletop, either indestructibility (like the lone missile launcher scout who rammed his finger into Marbo's eye and poked really hard while the lone wolf flailed ineffectually at him), an amazing feat of destruction that was survived against the odds (Powerfist Death Company man vs Daemon Prince) or just being really awesome (the sniper who killed Fateweaver).

I could name them if they've been converted up and are really distinctive, but I can't really see the point.

[Hootman]

IUm... How exactly FNP helps against Perils?

It won't. However, it DOES help against small arms fire that you botch your save against, as well as any AP3 missiles that find the Hive Tyrant (whenever I play vs Nids, it's usually between 4 and 8. Per turn.). Zoanthropes are less likely to benefit in my games, because they're almost always even higher priority targets for my missiles than the Tyrant. 3++ is very good, but any failure is Instant Death--in my experience, especially when using Pistol/CCW Marines and having a sad lack of ranged weapons aside from vehicles, this is more than worth it.

Nids can't do that

Then you're not trying very hard. My Nid-Bro has named his Trygon and Zoanthropes after terrible music (which he inexplicably loves while knowing it's awful), and I assume he'll name his Tervigon(s) when he gets around to it. The rank and file guys are a bit harder, but he did have that one Termagant survive something like 4 vehicle explosions and capture an objective...

[horngeek]

I'd... Advise against BC, actually. In big games, Grand Masters are much better, in small, like 1000 points game, 1 or 2 Ordo Malleus Terminator Inquisitors with Psycannon provide by far biggest bang for the points. BC is not actually worth it, if you just want to have such model use him as Anval Thawn instead.

Did I mention my lack of conversion skills? Because I'm pretty sure I did.

EDIT: Acutally, 'Nids are MORE suited to the 'name for battlefield deeds' method. Because any names they get (up to and including their species names) are given by their opponents. So, if a Nid gets a name for a deed, that particular creature has been identified specifically by your opponents. Easy!

[Cheesegear]

Cheesegear you wouldn't take a librarian instead?

It's possible he would, but Horngeek specified having (or wanting) a Halberdier Brother Captain.

There you go.

Plus, with BC high I, sword giving him 3++ might actually be a better choice, halberd is mostly useless.

Not really. Being able to strike before Sanguinary Guard, other ICs or Wyches is very good. At least I've found Halberd BC/GM to be quite useful, at least I've done damage while the Dark Eldar Archon ripped me a new one.

I'm also not convinced about CG advice, IMHO, all SSquads need is one Hammer, key to them is keeping them cheap and shooting, not buying tons of expensive wargear. Also, Incinerator on BC seems like a waste of BS to me, and if you want to go that route, I'd advice for Psycannon on BC, and Incinerator on Terminators.

Strike Knights have one attack. You need more Hammers. In smaller squads, no, it's not worth it to have more than one. In larger squads, more attacks = more better. When Combat Squadding you can leave one Hammer behind in both squads for Insurance. Or you can have two Hammers and go hunting.

As for the Incinerator on Captains/GMs, it's a points issue. Psycannons are everywhere in a GK army. Specifically, on Terminators for 25 points. On a Bro-Captain? 40 Points. The only way to grab points is to either make the army bigger (which is a different list because you wouldn't be strapped for points), or to drop Hammers which I already advise against doing, or dropping models. Which is bad because you're Grey Knights and bad because you'll also lose the Psycannons.

I cannot help but wonder why internet always insists on using GM to make things scoring, when there are better choices you can take to make scoring units more powerful, but oh, well.

So far I've been using my Grand Master to make things Scout or re-roll 1s. Making things Scoring implies that most people can't build a proper list with 3+ Troops in it already. If anything, I'd make Purgation Squads Scoring and have them squat on my backline while the rest of my army moves forwards.

[DaedalusMkV]

I only tend to give my models real, permanent names after they do something noteworthy, with the exception of my fluff-centric Chaos Marines where everyone has a name and history. Probably the best example would be Captain Kilgore, my IG Company Commander, who started as a lowly Sergeant who beat the snot out of the Emperor's Champion in a one-on-one duel with nothing but a chainsword to be promoted to Lieutenant, where he had a fairly successful run until eventually punching out a C'tan with his Power Fist then surviving the resulting explosion and beating the tar out of a pair of hapless Tomb Spiders. Alternatively, Crisis Shas'ui Ilos'ei, whose brave sacrifice tied up a Daemon prince long enough to save my Fire Warriors and won me a game. Probably should have promoted him, but Shas'vre are such a waste of points...

I'll be bringing my Tau to a 1500 point tourney in June, which will mark my second tournament and the first one I have any hope of actually succeeding at (in hindsight, taking Tau to 'Ard Boyz was not the best of plans). I might as well put up a list for consideration, see what everyone thinks.

Tau 1500 point Tourney list:

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HQ:
Shas'el: Cyclic Ion Blaster, Plasma Rifle, Targetting Array, Hardwired Multitracker, Drone Controller and one Shield Drone: 115
(Anti Elite-infantry specialist. Kills Terminators and Marines dead.)

Elites:
2 Crisis Suits: Plasma Rifle, Fusion Blaster, Multitracker: 124
(Good at dealing with units with good saves and light vehicles. Short-ranged, but I've been using them for a long time and I'm pretty good at compensating for that. Eat MCs alive.)
2 Crisis Suits: Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Multitracker: 124

Troops:
10 Fire Warriors: Shas'ui: 110
10 Fire Warriors: Shas'ui: 110
(Will hop in the Pathfinders' Devilfish.)
16 Kroot: 112

Fast Attack:
6 Pathfinders: 72
-Devilfish: Disruption Pods: 85
6 Pathfinders: 72
-Devilfish: Disruption Pods: 85

Heavy Support:
Hammerhead: Railgun, Burst Cannons, Multitracker, Target Lock: 165
Hammerhead: Railgun, Burst Cannons, Multitracker, Target Lock: 165
2 Broadside Battlesuits: Target Lock, Drone Controller, 1 Shield Drone: 160

Total Points: 1499

I know Tau are probably the single worst army in the game at this point, but there's no possible way I'll have time to totally finish painting either of my other armies at this point. I have an extremely wide pool of models to choose from with my Tau, so assume that I have access to at least two units of anything except Vespid and Sniper Drones. Anyone have any ideas for how to improve it?

[Ninjaman]

Did I mention my lack of conversion skills? Because I'm pretty sure I did.

EDIT: Acutally, 'Nids are MORE suited to the 'name for battlefield deeds' method. Because any names they get (up to and including their species names) are given by their opponents. So, if a Nid gets a name for a deed, that particular creature has been identified specifically by your opponents. Easy!

But i am not sure if something like that has ever happened to me. At least i don't keep track.

I only tend to give my models real, permanent names after they do something noteworthy, with the exception of my fluff-centric Chaos Marines where everyone has a name and history. Probably the best example would be Captain Kilgore, my IG Company Commander, who started as a lowly Sergeant who beat the snot out of the Emperor's Champion in a one-on-one duel with nothing but a chainsword to be promoted to Lieutenant, where he had a fairly successful run until eventually punching out a C'tan with his Power Fist then surviving the resulting explosion and beating the tar out of a pair of hapless Tomb Spiders. Alternatively, Crisis Shas'ui Ilos'ei, whose brave sacrifice tied up a Daemon prince long enough to save my Fire Warriors and won me a game. Probably should have promoted him, but Shas'vre are such a waste of points...

I'll be bringing my Tau to a 1500 point tourney in June, which will mark my second tournament and the first one I have any hope of actually succeeding at (in hindsight, taking Tau to 'Ard Boyz was not the best of plans). I might as well put up a list for consideration, see what everyone thinks.

Tau 1500 point Tourney list:

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HQ:
Shas'el: Cyclic Ion Blaster, Plasma Rifle, Targetting Array, Hardwired Multitracker, Drone Controller and one Shield Drone: 115
(Anti Elite-infantry specialist. Kills Terminators and Marines dead.)

Elites:
2 Crisis Suits: Plasma Rifle, Fusion Blaster, Multitracker: 124
(Good at dealing with units with good saves and light vehicles. Short-ranged, but I've been using them for a long time and I'm pretty good at compensating for that. Eat MCs alive.)
2 Crisis Suits: Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Multitracker: 124

Troops:
10 Fire Warriors: Shas'ui: 110
10 Fire Warriors: Shas'ui: 110
(Will hop in the Pathfinders' Devilfish.)
16 Kroot: 112

Fast Attack:
6 Pathfinders: 72
-Devilfish: Disruption Pods: 85
6 Pathfinders: 72
-Devilfish: Disruption Pods: 85

Heavy Support:
Hammerhead: Railgun, Burst Cannons, Multitracker, Target Lock: 165
Hammerhead: Railgun, Burst Cannons, Multitracker, Target Lock: 165
2 Broadside Battlesuits: Target Lock, Drone Controller, 1 Shield Drone: 160

Total Points: 1499

I know Tau are probably the single worst army in the game at this point, but there's no possible way I'll have time to totally finish painting either of my other armies at this point. I have an extremely wide pool of models to choose from with my Tau, so assume that I have access to at least two units of anything except Vespid and Sniper Drones. Anyone have any ideas for how to improve it?

Looks decent. I would properbly take ASS on the broadsides.
I am not sure fusion is needed with your rail guns. If you still need them i would propperbly drop the multitrackers and plasmarifles, then make the fusion blasters twinlinked and give them a flamer. S 6 is too low against vehicles.
You could also go with fusion and missile pods.

[Wraith]

Did I mention my lack of conversion skills? Because I'm pretty sure I did.:

If you get some of the older metal Grey Knight models, they all come in 3 parts - left arm, right arm, body - and with the sole exception of the Brother-Captain's right hand (which is always holding a Halberd in a particular way) the three bits are completely interchangable.

This includes the model for B-C Stern; though again his right hand is fixed, his left arm can be swapped with that of any other (certainly metal, probably plastic) Grey Knight. Making a unique combination is no harder than buying some bits and glueing them up in a different order.

So if you want a guy in Terminator armour and wielding a Psycannon, give that a try.
The metal models have a slightly different finish to the new plastic ones, so they'll stand out as 'important', and one unusual paint-job later (I'd suggest Gold, rather than silver, as it seems to be traditional for important 40k people to wear gold armour) you're all done, no conversions needed.
Glue on some extra purity seals or a plastic Banner Pole to the top of their shoulders if you like, to give them a bit more detail, but that's so easy it doesn't even count as a conversion!

[Squark]

Um... How exactly FNP helps against Perils?

It doesn't but you'd be surprised how many Casual players don't know what FNP does and doesn't work against.

[Ricky S]

I don't name my characters, but if I did, it'd be something appropriate to a feat on the tabletop, either indestructibility (like the lone missile launcher scout who rammed his finger into Marbo's eye and poked really hard while the lone wolf flailed ineffectually at him), an amazing feat of destruction that was survived against the odds (Powerfist Death Company man vs Daemon Prince) or just being really awesome (the sniper who killed Fateweaver).

I could name them if they've been converted up and are really distinctive, but I can't really see the point.

I always name my captain/librarians because it gives character to the army and basically represents you on the battlefield (idealistically). Whats more my captain actually deserves a name for the countless heroic duels he has won. There is not much a relic blade and storm shield cant handle.

For all of the regular guys who perform heroically they get medals and ribbons painted on. So far only one sarge has recieved that honour for single handedly killing 17 kroot and destroying two hammerheads while surviving nearly an entire army shooting at him for two turns.

[Provengreil]

It won't. However, it DOES help against small arms fire that you botch your save against, as well as any AP3 missiles that find the Hive Tyrant (whenever I play vs Nids, it's usually between 4 and 8. Per turn.). Zoanthropes are less likely to benefit in my games, because they're almost always even higher priority targets for my missiles than the Tyrant. 3++ is very good, but any failure is Instant Death--in my experience, especially when using Pistol/CCW Marines and having a sad lack of ranged weapons aside from vehicles, this is more than worth it.

On reflection, the typing was unclear in that post of mine. I was referring to 2 different uses of psykers, one being giving the MCs FNP to increase survivability if the enemy has missile launchers instead of lascannons, or a lot of heavy bolters, or the like. the second, entirely different psyker unit was zoanthropes.

[Hootman]

Glorius victory, 1st place of 30.

O.O TELL ME YOUR MAGICAL ORKY SECRETS!

Seriously, how did you win not once, but FIVE times with Orks, one of the least competative armies available? I'd be very interested in knowing what your list was; as a part-time Ork player who hasn't been able to lead his Boyz to victory, I'd love to have an idea of what I can do to expand my collection in the right direction.

[lord_khaine]

Glorius victory, 1st place of 30. I walk away with a large trophey, an abundance of vouchers, a bottle of champagne and a smile on my face.

ohh, didnt notice you won first time, grats to that.

[Wraith]

So I got to play an ETC ranked tournament last weekend with my "battlewagons, Ghazzy and Snikrot" list.

[.....]

Glorius victory, 1st place of 30. I walk away with a large trophey, an abundance of vouchers, a bottle of champagne and a smile on my face.

Indeed, very well done, sir! That's a hell of an achievement with any army, let alone one as fickle as the Green Filth.

Would you mind posting your list, by any chance? I regularly duel with a guy who is a keen, though often frustrated Ork player, and so far he has yet to come up with a dependable list. I'm sure he'd be very interested to see what sort of Ork lists win Tournaments (as would I, as it happens )

[Squark]

Possible Necron list I'm toying with.

Spoiler

Show

HQ
Nemessor Zahndrekh 185 pts

Royal Court (Split up among troop choices)
Cryptek Harbinger of Destruction with Solar Pulse and Gaze of Flame 65 pts
Cryptek Harbinger of Destruction 35 pts
Cryptek Harbinger of Transmogrification 30 pts
Cryptek Harbinger of Transmogrification 30 pts

Troops
8x Necron Warriors 104 pts (w/ Cryptek Harbinger of Destruction)
8x Necron Warriors 104 pts (w/ Cryptek Harbinger of Transmogrification)
7x Necron Immortals 119 pts (w/ Blinged out Cryptek of Destruction)
7x Necron Immortals 119 pts (w/ Cryptek Harbinger of Transmogrification)

Elites
C'tan Shard with Lord of Fire and Writhing Worldscape 230 pts

Fast Attack
6x Canoptek Wraiths with 2 Whip coils and 1 Particle Caster 235 pts

Heavy Support
2x Canoptek Spyders with 2 Gloom Prisms 120 pts
2x Canoptek Spyders with 2 Gloom Prisms 120 pts

Total: 1496 pts

[CN the Logos]

So, after swearing to all the gods that ever were that I was done with 40k (I tried to put an Ork army together, but it was my first experience with any sort of tabletop wargaming, I didn't like their playstyle much, and the painting of a billion little dudes, all of which had a fair bit of detailing involved and very few of which mattered much individually put me off before I'd played more than three games), I managed to find a fairly decent deal on Necrons on Ebay. Having read the new codex in the store and liking what I'd read, I decided to go for it.

I currently have (being shipped to me, not on hand yet):

• 50 Warriors
  
• 14 unassembled Warriors (I hear there's a way to convert these into Immortals, but I'm fairly new to conversion work and am not sure how difficult this would be.)
  
• 5 Destroyers
  
• 15 Scarabs
  
• 1 Lord (Is this even an HQ option by itself anymore? I like the Overlord or Trazyn more anyway, but am not sure whether it would be cheaper to buy a new mini or convert this one to something else.)

I'd like to mostly stick with the whole "relentless army of the dead footslogging steadily forward to crush their opposition" theme,* though I might be persuaded to eventually buy some transport for my HQ and his retinue.

I'm looking for advice on what I should do if I want to have any luck with that general theme, what I should buy, what wargear I should pick, how I should play in general, ways to cut down on the monetary costs of buying more stuff, and so on. Keep in mind, I haven't purchased the new codex yet, and I wasn't able to read the whole thing in-store (didn't have the time, and I think the owner of my FLGS wouldn't have approved), so you should probably give a brief explanation of why something is good rather than just a list of stuff I should take. I'm also new to the game in general (only played three games total, and that was more than six months ago) so I may be hazy on some of the general concepts; forgive me if I ask for clarification like a newb.

Thanks in advance for the help.





*Ironic, since I'm planning to fluff my army as fairly idealistic 'crons who survived the Great Sleep more or less intact, are content with their status as immortal robots, and have been steadily making progress on recreating the biotransference process in a manner that will allow them to create newcrons from other species, as well as reduce the damage to sanity from biotransfer/stasis/etc... Partly because I sincerely like the idea of immortal robot super soldiers who are more or less the good guys, and partly to troll fanboys of 40k's absurd fluff (and it was absurd before Ward came along). Don't get me wrong, I like the fluff in the sense that it's crazy over-the-top and appeals to my not so secret power fantasies, but I can't take it seriously and call it "lore." Sorry.