Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

[Arcanoi]

Why must Zahndrehk be so close to the combat to work? Part of the advantage of the two together is that you can make a rather swift hit and run force with necrons.

Otherwise they can teleport... where exactly? All the way across the map? Now whatever they were doing has failed almost as surely as if they were killed. Holding an objective? Not anymore. Advancing up the board alone? Why? Zahndrekh being 9 1/2" behind allows them to Rapid Fire whatever was assaulting them. That's about it. Not to mention, they were still assaulted by something that wanted to assault them.

Ok what is it, if you can do better what would you use.

3 1/2 Lords with Warscythes bring 7 attacks to the table at the same S. More wounds and more Reanimation Saves too. Alternatively, a Destroyer Lord + a Warscythe Lord bring 5 Attacks, 3 with Preferred Enemy, and one is Jump Infantry. Again, more wounds and Reanimation Saves.

[crazedloon]

Otherwise they can teleport... where exactly? All the way across the map? Now whatever they were doing has failed almost as surely as if they were killed. Holding an objective? Not anymore. Advancing up the board alone? Why? Zahndrekh being 9 1/2" behind allows them to Rapid Fire whatever was assaulting them. That's about it. Not to mention, they were still assaulted by something that wanted to assault them.

-objectives need not be held until the last turn as such being off of it but safe (and dealing with another unit) is not failing its doing your job.
-advancing up the board is very important, 1/3 the games you play have 2 objective only 1 in your opponents half you need to take that objective and this combo allows that with speed and accuracy.
-yes if need be you can indeed Teleport only a little bit from the assault to rapid fire on your assailants but I don't see how that is a bad thing. Also the reason I preffer a big unit of warriors as my unit to stick him with is that they are harder to get rid of entirely (which is needed to prevent them coming back) even for a unit of dedicated CC guys

3 1/2 Lords with Warscythes bring 7 attacks to the table at the same S. More wounds and more Reanimation Saves too. Alternatively, a Destroyer Lord + a Warscythe Lord bring 5 Attacks, 3 with Preferred Enemy, and one is Jump Infantry. Again, more wounds and Reanimation Saves.

you can't have half a lord so ignoring that
-you break even on wounds
-you net 3 more base attacks than obyron, but he has an ability which will net him extra attacks.

so base stat line if simple attacks are all you are looking for you have won out however,

-you now need 3 more units to shove those lords into otherwise you have very expensive unit for no reason.
-you only have 1 wound before the regen save which is not a good thing (like you seem to be implying) because once you are dead you are dead
-you have a worse armor save thus netting more wounds
-you lack the ability to move quickly around the battlefield (something you can do even without the nemesor)
-once your stuck in combat you are stuck in combat

the destroyer lord combo is interesting but it requires you to run another jump infantry unit to run with him (otherwise he is just missile bate) and is not strictly better.

The main reason Obyron is so good is that he is a force multiplier for more than just combat (which is all your examples do)

[Cheesegear]

I'll do the whole [Necron] Codex review in a few days.

I've decided to write an analysis of every unit in the [Necron] codex

...So, I can stop writing now? I'm fully prepared to do nothing. I'm good at that!

Although I have been playing a fair few games against Necrons (they haven't impressed my Dark Eldar at all yet), and I've done a straight 'port of my old Necron list and played with that for a bit (destroyed by Wolves). So, yeah. That's how it's going.

I'm thinking that a horde-like army would be neat, especially if it had a few powerful peoples to go with it.

Sounds like you want Black Templars, really.

Space Marines being Marines, are slightly less expensive than most other armies. Black Templars are an incredibly good foot-list, so you aren't 'wasting' money on Vehicles. And, while the dedicated Templar sprue definitely makes Templars better (Pistols and Chainswords for everyone!), it's not really needed to win. Templars do fine with Bolters.

The other option is Wolves. Wolves are incredibly good if you want to be cheap. Smallest (and therefore cheapest) army I can think of;
Logan, Njal, Canis, Ulrik, Wolf Guard to fill points. You'll be lucky to have more than 20 models most games. Maybe grab some Fenrisian Wolves (Goblin Wolf Riders box) so Canis doesn't get shot to poop instantly. Obviously, the list isn't very good. Since all your points are tied up in single-models, and to throw your units around, you'll need to be MSU.

[Shadow Lord]

Hm... is there any other armies that can be played like that? Because most of the people I know want Spess Mehrens, and I don't particularly feel like being just another flavor of the same.

[hamishspence]

Although I have been playing a fair few games against Necrons (they haven't impressed my Dark Eldar at all yet), and I've done a straight 'port of my old Necron list and played with that for a bit (destroyed by Wolves). So, yeah. That's how it's going.

That might be because Necrons are rather more reliant of vehicles now- have you tried using proxies for the Night Scythe, Doom Scythe, and Doomsday Ark? Or for the various character models?

Necrons can race like the Dark Eldar can (their fastest Dedicated Transport is supersonic and can deep strike- whereas DE need either Sliscus or Retrofire Jets upgrade to Deep Strike with transports, and even with Ethersails only do 24" + 2d6" flat out, in Raiders).

[Winterwind]

No, I'm pretty sure at WS 6, WS 3 and maybe WS 4 would also need 5+ to hit...

The weapon skill to-hit table is one of the most annoying to memorize, simply because it goes from 3+ to 5+.

That's why you shouldn't memorize the table, you should memorize the rules that are responsible for that table.

If you have more WS than your target, you hit on a 3+.
If you have at least half as much WS as your target, but not more WS than your target, you hit on a 4+.
If you have less than half as much WS as your target, you hit on a 5+.

Which, yes, means that at WS6, something with WS3 still hits you on a 4+. You need WS7 for something with WS3 to need a 5+. And WS9 for something with WS4 to require that. Models with WS5 or better always hit on at least 4+.

...So, I can stop writing now? I'm fully prepared to do nothing. I'm good at that!

No no no, by all means, go on!
I'm sure all the others would... not appreciate, if the Cheesegear New Codex Review™ was supplanted by the inane ramblings of some noob.

[Etcetera]

That's why you shouldn't memorize the table, you should memorize the rules that are responsible for that table.

If you have more WS than your target, you hit on a 3+.
If you have at least half as much WS as your target, but not more WS than your target, you hit on a 4+.
If you have less than half as much WS as your target, you hit on a 5+.

Which, yes, means that at WS6, something with WS3 still hits you on a 4+. You need WS7 for something with WS3 to need a 5+. And WS9 for something with WS4 to require that. Models with WS5 or better always hit on at least 4+.

This. TBH, I'm convinced that sometimes the table can do more harm than good.

[Cheesegear]

Hm... is there any other armies that can be played like that? Because most of the people I know want Spess Mehrens, and I don't particularly feel like being just another flavor of the same.

No. Other armies that play 'Horde-style' don't have Power Armour.

That might be because Necrons are rather more reliant of vehicles now- have you tried using proxies for the Night Scythe, Doom Scythe, and Doomsday Ark? Or for the various character models?

Yes. In some cases we even used actual models. Like I've said earlier in thread, people in my meta-game are actually picking up the Necron Codex and using it.

Necrons can race like the Dark Eldar

What's the point in that, though? Great. You made it up the board. Wyches then jump out with 3 attacks each, Combat Drugs gives whatever, I5 goes crazy, then a 4+ Invulnerable to combat the survivors.
...Then Sweeping Advance for Victory!

Necrons...Don't do that. They race up the board...Then don't shoot because they went too fast (Dark Eldar don't even do that...). So, Necrons go 12" up the board...And shoot. Any army can do that. Doesn't really compare against Stormravens either.

Ravagers and Razorwings have Aerial Assault. And that's not fair.

whereas DE need either Sliscus

...Who doesn't take Sliscus? Point them out to me so I can tell them how wrong they are.

I'm sure all the others would... not appreciate, if the Cheesegear New Codex Review™ was supplanted by the inane ramblings of some noob.

...Huh? I was thinking more about you. I'd hate for you to write up a whole thing if you didn't really want to.

[Winterwind]

...Huh? I was thinking more about you. I'd hate for you to write up a whole thing if you didn't really want to.

Don't worry; if I didn't feel like writing that thing, I wouldn't have volunteered it. It's not like anyone came and asked me to do so, anyhow.

[The Glyphstone]

What's the point in that, though? Great. You made it up the board. Wyches then jump out with 3 attacks each, Combat Drugs gives whatever, I5 goes crazy, then a 4+ Invulnerable to combat the survivors.
...Then Sweeping Advance for Victory!

I don't think the point is to go straight down the throat with Necrons - all that maneuverability just gives you unprecedented mobility. With Supersonic, you can give up one turn of shooting to redeploy your entire intact army pretty much anywhere you want on the board, letting you focus fire your attacks where it'll be most effective. Against an enemy gunline, you can take half their formation out of play for a turn or two at least; against enemy assault that isn't Dark Eldar, you can play 'can't touch me' very easily.

[Winterwind]

I don't think the point is to go straight down the throat with Necrons - all that maneuverability just gives you unprecedented mobility. With Supersonic, you can give up one turn of shooting to redeploy your entire intact army pretty much anywhere you want on the board, letting you focus fire your attacks where it'll be most effective.

Monoliths can help with that, too.

I recall in BattleTech, whenever I was playing Clans versus Inner Sphere, my favourite strategy was to first just basically advance, and then suddenly wheel all my 'Mechs on one flank around and use my superior mobility to concentrate all my army on one side of the map, leaving half of the slower IS 'Mechs uselessly lumbering around on the other side of the map, now facing nothing at all and unable to add their firepower to the fight. It's also somewhat how I tend to play my Eldar, whenever possible. Maybe the Necrons could try doing the same?

[The Glyphstone]

Monoliths can help with that, too.

I recall in BattleTech, whenever I was playing Clans versus Inner Sphere, my favourite strategy was to first just basically advance, and then suddenly wheel all my 'Mechs on one flank around and use my superior mobility to concentrate all my army on one side of the map, leaving half of the slower IS 'Mechs uselessly lumbering around on the other side of the map, now facing nothing at all and unable to add their firepower to the fight. It's also somewhat how I tend to play my Eldar, whenever possible.

Yeah, that's the strategy I'm talking about. And Monoliths can definitely help, both in even more mobility (infinite range teleport ftw) and LOS-blocking with their big fat bulks.

[Cheesegear]

I don't think the point is to go straight down the throat with Necrons - all that maneuverability just gives you unprecedented mobility.

That's fine. I guess I didn't make it clear enough.

Necrons are not bad. Necrons are (IMO) the 'new Tau'. Solid shooting, decent armour, backed up by even more shooting. In fact, you might even call them the new Codex Marines in their playstyle. Certainly without He'Stan or Kor'Sarro (for not getting shot at), Marines are mostly crapping their pants.

What I'm trying to say, is that to be better than 'not bad'. You need to be able to compare - favorably, at least with 50:50 success - to the top tier armies, which Necrons don't.

[Ricky S]

I heard an interesting idea for the new necron codex. Basically take a C'tan and a wraith. The wraith makes models in base contact iniative 1 and the C'tan makes a single model in base to base take an initiative test (so roll a 1) or die. So if you run these two together you can kill any single thing you want with no trouble. Bye bye hive tyrant, bye bye Mephiston, etc.

The past three games I have had with my Celestial Lions I have won. My win to loss ratio is now in the positives so I just need to keep this up.

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Here is the list I have been running

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HQ
-Captain, Relic Blade, Storm Shield 145pts
-Command Squad, Banner, Storm Shield, 2x Power Weapon, Power Fist 200pts
-Razorback 40pts

Elites
-5 Terminators, Assault Cannon 230pts
-Dreadnought, Multi melta 105pts

Troops
-Tactical Squad, Plasma Gun, Plasma Cannon 185pts
-Tactical Squad, Plasma Gun, Plasma Cannon 185pts
-Scout Squad 75pts

Fast attack
-5 Bikes, Powerfist, 2x meltas 185pts

Heavy Support
-Devastator Squad, 4x Missile Launchers 150pts

1500pts

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The first game was against orks
His army
-Warboss, powerclaw, cyborg body
-9x Nobs with +2 strength weapon Painboy
-30x Shoota boyz, Powerclaw
-30x Shoota boyz, Powerclaw
-3x Killa Kan, Grotzooka, heavy flamer, rocket launcher
- 9x lootas
-Big mek Shock Attack Gun
-3 Ork bikes with powerclaw
-2 deff coptas with buzzsaw and rocket launchers

The set up was dawn of war anhilation. I won first turn and chose to set up defensively in some buildings. I let him come to me which allowed me to whittle his relatively slow forces down a lot.

My missiles blew chunks out of his ork boyz. My bikes took care of the killa kans as is befitting of their equipment. The dreadnought fought for 6 rounds of combat with the bikers before finally killing them. It was immobilised but stayed alive.

One of my tactical squads was obliterated in close combat and so was the bike unit. But I lost very little else. My opponent managed to roll two double 6's for his shock attack gun but unfortunately for him both scattered off their targets. He managed to miss my devastator squad as well as my terminator squad much to my relief. My command squad dealt with one of the 30 boyz.

The biggest decider of the game was definately where my opponent deployed his nobs. He admitted after the game that he was really worried about the bikes for some reason so thats why he deployed his nobs on the left flank. If they had of been deployed in the middle they would have been free to wreak destruction on my army. However as they were I was able to use the bikes to destract them and keep them off the main part of my army. The finally tally was 7 kill points to 3 in my favour.

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My second game was against blood angels.
his list was

-Sanguinor
-Sanguinary guard, powerfist, banner
-Sanguinary Priest, jumpack power weapon
-Sanguinary Priest, jumpack power weapon
-10 Assault marines, 2x meltas, power weapon
-10 Assault marines, 2x meltas, power weapon
-10 Deathcompany, thunderhammer
-Drop Pod

It was pitched battle anhilation. I won first turn again. This game was over pretty quickly. I managed to make one of the assault squad flee off the table on turn one after taking two deaths to missile and two deaths to plasma cannons.

The second assault marine unit moved up and then fell back second turn which allowed me more time to shoot them. When they finally reached combat with my tactical squad they lacked the numbers to break them which meant that my terminators could counter charge and obliterate them.

The sanguinary guard charged my dreadnought and despite the ridiculous number of power fist attacks he had he didn't manage to destroy it at all. For the rest of the game his sanguinary guard was locked in combat with it and finally my terminators came in to mop up the 3 remaining sanguinary guard and the priest.

The death company didn't achieve much because they had no support so a tactical squad, my scout squad and my command squad could deal with them at leisure.

The sanguinor butchered my poor scout squad despite them doing nothing to anyone. He then proceeded to take a bunch of plasma and missile to the face and finally died to massed bolter fire.

At the end of the game I had lost 12 tactical marines, 5 bikes and 5 scouts but my opponent was tabled. To be fair though he had some appalling luck with his rolls and was thoroughly annoyed with his troops. He berated them for being yellow bellied instead of fearless blood angels. The biggest decider was definately his unit fleeing off the board but charging his sanguinary guard against the dreadnought certainly didnt help.

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My last game was against Tau. He was the same opponent who obliterated my mechanised blood angels army two weeks before. He was running a farsight tau army this time.

-Farsight
-8 bodyguard with a massive selection of weapons and wargear
-3x Crisis suits with missile pods
-Stealth team with 3 marker drones
-10 Firewarriors
-10 Firewarriors
-Piranhna

It was spear head anhilation. My opponent won first turn and set up his farsight bomb on the table because he was afraid of deepstriking in the terrain rich environment. He had his missile pod crisis suits and firewarriors in the back corner while the rest of his army was being used aggressively.

My terminators were obliterated by plasma fire. My dreadnought managed to draw a heck of a lot of fire and then managed to make all of the 12 or so cover saves he needed. My devastators managed to take off a few models from the crisis bomb before they assaulted my dreadnought. Farsight managed to take off both the arms from my dreadnought before being counter charged by my bike squad and my command squad. By the end of the combat he had only five models left and my two power fists managed to then put 5 wounds out. My opponent then proceeded to fail all of his invulnerable saves.

After my opponent lost his deathstar unit it was just a matter of mopping up the rest. One tactical squad rapid fired the pirahna and blew it up. The other tactical squad rapid fired the stealth team to death. My commander could have single handedly killed the firewarriors if he didnt have his squad with him. In the end he killed 7 of them. The devastator squad took out the missile pod crisis team and that was game.

My opponent had some bad luck but the main problem I think was that tau simply crumble in assault. Even the best assault unit in the army cannot stand up to a single unit from the space marine codex let alone two in one turn. I think the 4th ed tau codex is really starting to show its age.

[hamishspence]

Necrons are not bad. Necrons are (IMO) the 'new Tau'. Solid shooting, decent armour, backed up by even more shooting. In fact, you might even call them the new Codex Marines in their playstyle. Certainly without He'Stan or Kor'Sarro (for not getting shot at), Marines are mostly crapping their pants.

What I'm trying to say, is that to be better than 'not bad'. You need to be able to compare - favorably, at least with 50:50 success - to the top tier armies, which Necrons don't.

That might be the design intent- to create a flexible, "mid-tier" army list that compares favourably with Codex Marines.

[The_Final_Stand]

Which, I suppose, is better than "The only consistent counter to this army is itself".

[Erloas]

I think its kind of ironic when people complain about a new army not being able to consistently win against whatever the most powerful armies are, when it is often those same people who complain about power creep. In theory all armies should be designs to go 50/50 with the mid powered armies, and if one army ends up better then that, thats actually a failing of that single army instead of all of the other armies.

Which of course is also why I don't play competitively. I think the game looses all its fun when all you ever see and all you can ever take yourself is the hand full of lists the "internet" says is best.

[filvento]

I actually think that its stupid. All armies can beat any army.. atleast all the 5th edition ones. Including necrons.
And so, which do you think is the powerful army btw?

Btw, does someobdy know a program or something to try a list? I want to start trying lists for my necrons.. Cause i dont want to buy expsensive things for nothing.. theres is no ONLINE program to play WH40K? FREE?
Thanks

[Shadow Lord]

I'm fine with the Horde not having everyone have power armour. More like a horde with a few elite units here and there. Know what I'm saying?

[Etcetera]

I actually think that its stupid. All armies can beat any army.. atleast all the 5th edition ones. Including necrons.
And so, which do you think is the powerful army btw?

Btw, does someobdy know a program or something to try a list? I want to start trying lists for my necrons.. Cause i dont want to buy expsensive things for nothing.. theres is no ONLINE program to play WH40K? FREE?
Thanks

Vassal 40k, but I don't know if it has new cron models yet.

[ZeltArruin]

I actually think that its stupid. All armies can beat any army.. atleast all the 5th edition ones. Including necrons.
And so, which do you think is the powerful army btw?

Btw, does someobdy know a program or something to try a list? I want to start trying lists for my necrons.. Cause i dont want to buy expsensive things for nothing.. theres is no ONLINE program to play WH40K? FREE?
Thanks

Proxy? That has always worked for me.

[Ninjaman]

Maybe stealth to Deathmarks and shot everything, or to a Ghost ark.. BUt to a monolith, seems stupid.
Still, that skill its pretty nice, you can use furious charge in wraits or something like that.. that HQ, is PRETTY nice.

a 1500 list. What do you guys THink?

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Imotek The Stormlord . 225
Nemezor Zandrek.........185

Ghost Ark 115
Ghost Ark 115
Catacomb Command Barage w/ Imotek 80

9 Warriors 117
10 Warriors 130

6 Wraiths with Whip coils 260 ( One Doesnt have Whip )
6 Wraiths with Whip Coils 270

TOTAL: 1497 - For a 1500 list.

I think its pretty offensive and can deal with alot of armies.
Im not sure.. still a prototype or thinking.
Tell me your thougts

You have too many points in HQ. And too few troops.

Hm... is there any other armies that can be played like that? Because most of the people I know want Spess Mehrens, and I don't particularly feel like being just another flavor of the same.

Necrons? Orks?

[filvento]

Try Proxy a Ghost ark :) Lulz. Im getting Vassal40k anyone is welcome to help me try it.

[Squark]

Try Proxy a Ghost ark :) Lulz. Im getting Vassal40k anyone is welcome to help me try it.

It's not as hard as it looks; Just borrow an existing one (ask first!) and trace the base onto a cereal box. Should work for simple testing. Granted, this works better with non-skimmers, but it should still work. Just establish policy on cover saves beforehand.

I'm fine with the Horde not having everyone have power armour. More like a horde with a few elite units here and there. Know what I'm saying?

Hrrrm...

Tyranids have a mix of Giant Monstrous creatures and hordes of little 'gaunts... but they're also considered to be one of the weakest of the 5th edition codexes. And building a Tervigon is tricky for a newbie (since it requires you to convert a Carnifex, which I don't recommend until you have a good hand at modeling).

Guard won't work for the type of horde you're suggesting (and foot guard is crazy expensive). Orks might be a bit better, but not much. Really, if you want to do a horde with Elite units, Black Templars are probably the way to go. Besides, Space Marines really aren't all that homogeneus. Aside from the Six default variations (Chaos marines (who have a lot of variation within themselves), Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Black Templars, Grey Knights, and Dark Angels), Codex Marines can look very different if you deside to go with a chapter that isn't the Ultramarines (be it Imperial Fists, White Scars, Raven Guard, Crimson Fists, or my personal favorite, the Salamanders. Not to mention there are hundreds of other lesser known chapters, like Space Sharks, Celestial Lions... And, if all else fails, you can always make up your own chapter*).

*Just don't name them the Emperor's Pointy Sticks. That one has been taken.

[filvento]

Maybe.. I can try that. Still not that easy.
I've got Vassal40k. Would someone mind playing a game with me and teaching how to?

[ZeltArruin]

Try Proxy a Ghost ark :) Lulz. Im getting Vassal40k anyone is welcome to help me try it.

I've proxied a land raider as a dryer sheet, they are surprisingly close to the same foot print. Paper Eldar tanks, paper Dark Eldar Tanks, blank base terminators and thunder wolves, french fry cup dreadnaught defiler. The list goes on.

[BoSheck]

Re horde-style gameplay:

Orks would be the least expensive true horde as long as you're willing to ebay for boyz and don't mind the AoBR ones. Thats what I'm given to understand. For the "lots of guys, and a few elite hitters' you'd go with: boyz on foot with a big mob hiding a KFF mech and Kans in front with a Klaw in every mob. Really standard ork build, fairly effective. Hates flamers.

Black Templar are, fluff-wise, the power armored horde army and as far as splashing an elite style unit: their terminators can rock pretty hardcore. Not familiar with the codex, can't give you a list example. Seen 'em in action plenty, though.

Moving on I feel like blood angels DoA can be sufficiently hordish. You just get assault marines, assault marines, assault marines, give each sarge a fist, throw a few special weapons in the mix, grab a sanguinary priest and a librarian, and come barreling down with 40-50 extremely fast power armored bodies at 1500.

Space wolves can, in a way. Thunderwolf cavalry are a pain to convert and probably cost intensive (unless you've got, say, some of the old dnd minatures laying around. Or a Fenris Wolf from heroclix), but then there's fenrisian wolves.

15 fenrisian wolves clock in at 120 points and adding saga of the wolfkin to one of your many HQs is just 1/12th of that. So for 250 points you end up with 30 I5 marine statted beasts (who are excedingly vulnerable to shooting. use cover! Saga of the hunter on a wolf priest! buy a squad of 5 to run in front! Something!) bonus points: Army that Canis works in. Fill out your points with long fangs (still cheap!), some grey hunters (underpriced!), wolf-mounted ironpriest (cheaper cyberwoofs for the win), maybe some wolf scouts to mess with your opponent's deployment. Little toy wolves are also cheap as dirt and there's so many possibilities you could literally have 30-45 wolves and not one be the same sculpt. You'll also need a three wolf moon t-shirt.

[Zorg]

The Lord Inquisitor has its 2 minute trailer up.

Don't know what The Lord Inquisitor is? Click the link. Even if you do know click the link.

[Ninjaman]

It's not as hard as it looks; Just borrow an existing one (ask first!) and trace the base onto a cereal box. Should work for simple testing. Granted, this works better with non-skimmers, but it should still work. Just establish policy on cover saves beforehand.

I have never heard of that one before, my biggest proxy is a coconut for my pathetic spore.

Tyranids have a mix of Giant Monstrous creatures and hordes of little 'gaunts... but they're also considered to be one of the weakest of the 5th edition codexes. And building a Tervigon is tricky for a newbie (since it requires you to convert a Carnifex, which I don't recommend until you have a good hand at modeling).

Guard won't work for the type of horde you're suggesting (and foot guard is crazy expensive). Orks might be a bit better, but not much. Really, if you want to do a horde with Elite units, Black Templars are probably the way to go. Besides, Space Marines really aren't all that homogeneus. Aside from the Six default variations (Chaos marines (who have a lot of variation within themselves), Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Black Templars, Grey Knights, and Dark Angels), Codex Marines can look very different if you deside to go with a chapter that isn't the Ultramarines (be it Imperial Fists, White Scars, Raven Guard, Crimson Fists, or my personal favorite, the Salamanders. Not to mention there are hundreds of other lesser known chapters, like Space Sharks, Celestial Lions... And, if all else fails, you can always make up your own chapter*).

*Just don't name them the Emperor's Pointy Sticks. That one has been taken.

I think he said that he didn't like space marines.
Orks are propperbly the best. Since tyranids are out-ruled for the very reasons you said*.

*As for the tervigons, i am actually converting 2 myself (and a tyrranofex). I might upload them to the models thread when i finnish them*.

*Assembling, will take a LONG time before i finnish painting.

[Etcetera]

The Lord Inquisitor has its 2 minute trailer up.

Don't know what The Lord Inquisitor is? Click the link. Even if you do know click the link.

I reiterate my past statement that the writing is very poor, and the voice acting is not much better.