The General Gaming Thread!

[factotum]

Now I've got nothing against this, so far as it goes. Hell, I've had a lot of fun with it, but sometimes...sometimes I can't help but feel there's room for so much more. I want to ride dragons, sail the wine-dark seas, meet strange and interesting creatures and maybe not have to kill them, marry the prince/princess and generally have what 'adventure' used to mean. Somewhere along the line it seems to have degenerated into iterated perfection of improbable violence through constant pillaging.

Can't help but feel you're playing the wrong games. Neither Skyrim nor The Witcher 2 are endless dungeon crawls, for example (and even when you ARE in a dungeon in Skyrim, there's a huge amount of variety--Blackreach is an awesomely beautiful place that just happens to be underground, for example).

[Starsign]

So has anyone heard of Kingdoms of Amalur? It's sort of a fantasy action RPG game that I can't quite explain well enough.

[Morty]

Ah yes, my other point. Dungeons; I'm sick of 'em. Isn't fantasy supposed to be about, well, the fantastic? Why does this seemingly almost always translate to walking down a poorly lit ten foot wide corridor, fighting the same mix of giant vermin and always evil yet strangely non-problematic humanoids? Then we get to open the chest, pick up the generic loot, head back to town, sell it all to buy some slightly better equipment and do it again.

Now I've got nothing against this, so far as it goes. Hell, I've had a lot of fun with it, but sometimes...sometimes I can't help but feel there's room for so much more. I want to ride dragons, sail the wine-dark seas, meet strange and interesting creatures and maybe not have to kill them, marry the prince/princess and generally have what 'adventure' used to mean. Somewhere along the line it seems to have degenerated into iterated perfection of improbable violence through constant pillaging.

Not that I disagree, but isn't that a bit of a discredited theme? I can't recall the last time I did some classic dungeoncrawling in an RPG game.

[warty goblin]

Can't help but feel you're playing the wrong games. Neither Skyrim nor The Witcher 2 are endless dungeon crawls, for example (and even when you ARE in a dungeon in Skyrim, there's a huge amount of variety--Blackreach is an awesomely beautiful place that just happens to be underground, for example).

The few dungeons I played in Skyrim (before becoming terminally bored of the whole thing) were pretty much just a single, seldom branching, corridor down which I would walk, killing the assorted things placed in my path, before reaching the chest at the end. I'd actually say they were a step back from Oblivion, where the dungeons sometimes had some branching going on. Hell, even the aboveground stuff felt kinda dungeonish to me - go here, kill that, bring the item. Mostly just kill that though. (To be fair I 'only' played about 6 hours of Skyrim, so its quite possible my sample is unrepresentative.)

Witcher 2 is mostly an exception though, I'll grant that.

Maybe I've just hit a point of general ennui with the industry. Somewhere along the line apparently 'thrilling adventure' turned into 'kill 89% of everyone and everything you meet.' Or maybe (probably) it's always been this way, and I've just done it enough to really start to notice.

[Starwulf]

So has anyone heard of Kingdoms of Amalur? It's sort of a fantasy action RPG game that I can't quite explain well enough.

YES! I can't wait for it to come out, looks to be an awesome game, I have very high hopes for it! Plus, R.A. salvatore! WOOT!

The few dungeons I played in Skyrim (before becoming terminally bored of the whole thing) were pretty much just a single, seldom branching, corridor down which I would walk, killing the assorted things placed in my path, before reaching the chest at the end. I'd actually say they were a step back from Oblivion, where the dungeons sometimes had some branching going on. Hell, even the aboveground stuff felt kinda dungeonish to me - go here, kill that, bring the item. Mostly just kill that though. (To be fair I 'only' played about 6 hours of Skyrim, so its quite possible my sample is unrepresentative.)

Witcher 2 is mostly an exception though, I'll grant that.

Maybe I've just hit a point of general ennui with the industry. Somewhere along the line apparently 'thrilling adventure' turned into 'kill 89% of everyone and everything you meet.' Or maybe (probably) it's always been this way, and I've just done it enough to really start to notice.

Hmm, yeah, your sample is very small. Playing 6 hours of Skyrim(or any TES game for that matter) is like playing 20 minutes of another game. You just can't form a solid opinion with such little playtime of it. I've put close to 1k hours into Morrowind, and about 300 into Oblivion, and probably double both of those put together into Daggerfall, and the last time a poll was taken over at Bethsoft forums, I was actually in the lower reaches, with some people having put well over 5k hours into a single TES game(granted, this is with mods, but usually only after multiple vanilla play throughs). I"ll eventually put at least 400 or so hours into Skyrim, more if some really great mods get released for it from the community.

[warty goblin]

YES! I can't wait for it to come out, looks to be an awesome game, I have very high hopes for it! Plus, R.A. salvatore! WOOT!

I was working myself towards pre-ordering, then they released a video about crafting. Now I'm back on the fence. I'll probably pre-order it anyways, just need to see a bit of material focusing on something actually fun.

The art style should bother me, but it doesn't. Somehow they managed to get enough cartoonishness in there to be appealing while avoiding looking like WoW.

Hmm, yeah, your sample is very small. Playing 6 hours of Skyrim(or any TES game for that matter) is like playing 20 minutes of another game. You just can't form a solid opinion with such little playtime of it. I've put close to 1k hours into Morrowind, and about 300 into Oblivion, and probably double both of those put together into Daggerfall, and the last time a poll was taken over at Bethsoft forums, I was actually in the lower reaches, with some people having put well over 5k hours into a single TES game(granted, this is with mods, but usually only after multiple vanilla play throughs). I"ll eventually put at least 400 or so hours into Skyrim, more if some really great mods get released for it from the community.

What can I say, if I'm not having fun with a game after six hours, I'm comfortable in saying it's really not for me. At that point either the pacing sucks, or the entire thing is just going to be boring, either of which is enough to eliminate it from the list of things I want to play.

And really, the question is whether six or so hours is a representative sample of the entire game's gameplay - I'm certainly not there for the story, which I found quite poor. I figured it probably did give me enough data to make an informed decision, which was that it did nothing better, and some things worse, than Oblivion.

[Cespenar]

And really, the question is whether six or so hours is a representative sample of the entire game's gameplay - I'm certainly not there for the story, which I found quite poor. I figured it probably did give me enough data to make an informed decision, which was that it did nothing better, and some things worse, than Oblivion.

While Bethesda games don't have much in the main storyline, their sidequests (guild-stuff, for example) usually have much better writing and ingenuity in them. I'd give them a try, if I were you.

[warty goblin]

While Bethesda games don't have much in the main storyline, their sidequests (guild-stuff, for example) usually have much better writing and ingenuity in them. I'd give them a try, if I were you.

I'm at a point where the limiting factor on my gaming is basically time, not things to play. If a title doesn't have engaging mechanics I'm gonna kick it curbside, because I've got a mound of other games leering at me from caves in the ponderous mountain that is my backlog. Skyrim's combat was so excessively kludgy it simply lost out.

Bottom line: I don't really care how much content a game has, I care how good that content is*. If Skyrim's mechanics were twice as fun to play, with half the content I'd be on that like white on rice. As it is, why play something with poor gameplay when I could be playing Saint's Row III, Dead Island, Anno 2070, or any number of other titles?

*Actually anymore I suspect I'm becoming more and more favorably inclined towards shorter games. See that pesky time thing.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Whew, just successfully flew all the way from New York to Perth to fight the first Terror Mission in X-com.

[factotum]

I figured it probably did give me enough data to make an informed decision, which was that it did nothing better, and some things worse, than Oblivion.

I thought Skyrim was definitely better than Oblivion--the level scaling was a lot less intrusive, for a start. (Although with 6 hours' playtime you probably didn't get much further than level 5, so you wouldn't have noticed that). I agree with Starwulf that 6 hours isn't really long enough to "get" an Elder Scrolls game (I played Oblivion for a good 20 hours before realising I hated it), but if you haven't got the time, not much point worrying about it. If at some point in the future you DO get a bit more spare time I'd recommend giving it another try, assuming TES 8 isn't out by then...

[Tavar]

So, has anyone ever heard/played the game El Shaddai: Ascension of the Metatron? I just saw it's box in Gamestop, and was intrigued. Looking up the website hasn't really shown me anything too worrying, but I wondered if anyone here could give a first hand account.

[Triscuitable]

So, has anyone ever heard/played the game El Shaddai: Ascension of the Metatron? I just saw it's box in Gamestop, and was intrigued. Looking up the website hasn't really shown me anything too worrying, but I wondered if anyone here could give a first hand account.

Yeah. It's the Okami game of the year. Fresh graphics, fun combat, platforming in an age of a lack of good platformers (save Assassin's Creed and the like). For the price you can buy it at ($20), it really is a steal.

However, the endgame is a little sloppy, but besides that, it's awesome.

[Starwulf]

So, has anyone ever heard/played the game El Shaddai: Ascension of the Metatron? I just saw it's box in Gamestop, and was intrigued. Looking up the website hasn't really shown me anything too worrying, but I wondered if anyone here could give a first hand account.

Zevox just did a playthrough of it, and talked about it on the "Holiday games" thread. He seemed to think the story was a pretty awful mess, making almost no sense whatsoever. Beyond that, you'd probably have to ask him exactly what he thought of it ^^

[Starwulf]

So, I have a question that I hope someone that reads this thread can answer: What are the key differences between the various Shin Megami titles(Like, I know there is the Persona series, but there are also other series that carry the Shin Megami title as well). Also, for the individual series, like Persona, is the storyline continued in each(Like, is there any sort of thread that connects Persona 1 to Persona 2, and then likewise to Persona 3)? If so, is a concrete thread that would make it so you shouldn't play them out of order?

I ask these questions because I have begun an obsession to finally play my first Shin Megami game, and I've chosen the Persona series to start, but, being dirt poor, I'm trying to get it cheap off of E-bay(under 15), but I'm only looking towards the first Persona, as I don't want to get the 2nd or 3rd one and feel totally lost because there are plot threads that are continuing from previous games and I no nothing about them.

[warty goblin]

Started playing Return to Krondor today - I remember seeing an add for it in the back of my Caeser III manual waay back when manuals were large enough to throw your spine out of alignment, and couldn't resist snagging it off of GoG when it was on sale for $3.00.

It's aged surprisingly well, in fact it arguably looks as good as the original Neverwinter Nights (characters look worse, the pre-rendered environments look better, but the camera angles are fixed). So far it's fully voiced, the VOs are generally good, the plot's unfolding nicely, and I have no idea how all the RPG bits work.

All of which indicates that wRPGs basically haven't changed in the last thirteen years.

[Cogwheel]

So, I have a question that I hope someone that reads this thread can answer: What are the key differences between the various Shin Megami titles(Like, I know there is the Persona series, but there are also other series that carry the Shin Megami title as well). Also, for the individual series, like Persona, is the storyline continued in each(Like, is there any sort of thread that connects Persona 1 to Persona 2, and then likewise to Persona 3)? If so, is a concrete thread that would make it so you shouldn't play them out of order?

I ask these questions because I have begun an obsession to finally play my first Shin Megami game, and I've chosen the Persona series to start, but, being dirt poor, I'm trying to get it cheap off of E-bay(under 15), but I'm only looking towards the first Persona, as I don't want to get the 2nd or 3rd one and feel totally lost because there are plot threads that are continuing from previous games and I no nothing about them.

I'm hardly an SMT expert, but from what I've heard, Persona games are completely unrelated in terms of plot (except for Persona 2, which is a two-parter). 3 and 4 are very different from 1 and 2 gameplay-wise, and while 4 has a couple minor references to 3, that's about it.

Personally, I recommend Devil Survivor 1 (Overclocked if at all possible, it's a good deal better) and, as soon as it's released, 2. Tactical RPGs of a sort, absolutely riddled with choice in terms of plot, and just generally excellent. Having an easy mode is nice too, if you want it to be slightly less murderous.

[Triscuitable]

Bought CIV 4 for an awesome mod I saw that I can't find.

[factotum]

Bought CIV 4 for an awesome mod I saw that I can't find.

Well, describe the mod in question and why you thought it was awesome and maybe someone can tell you what it is! Most famous Civ 4 mod is Fall from Heaven, AFAIK, but no idea if that's what you're thinking of.

[Castaras]

... and if you want Fall from Heaven, go for Rise from Erebus. It's the upgraded version of Fall From Heaven - more balanced, and more civilisations and features.

[Mistral]

I'm hardly an SMT expert, but from what I've heard, Persona games are completely unrelated in terms of plot (except for Persona 2, which is a two-parter). 3 and 4 are very different from 1 and 2 gameplay-wise, and while 4 has a couple minor references to 3, that's about it.

Personally, I recommend Devil Survivor 1 (Overclocked if at all possible, it's a good deal better) and, as soon as it's released, 2. Tactical RPGs of a sort, absolutely riddled with choice in terms of plot, and just generally excellent. Having an easy mode is nice too, if you want it to be slightly less murderous.

In fact, the only SMT games I can think of that are direct sequels with the same characters are Digital Devil Saga (which are essentially one game in two titles) and Devil Summoner (and in the latter, only the Raidou Kuzunoha). Most of the other games have, to the best of my knowledge, a few shout-outs to other games at most (Alice, the Jack family, certain carry-over bonus bosses, that sort of thing).

At any rate, addressing key differences between the games:
SMT (main line): One person against the world. Demons summoned directly to fight alongside you, which can be obtained through fusion (combining demons to make stronger demons with their parents' skills) or recruitment (talking to demons in battle and convincing them to join you). Generally closer to a series of dungeon-crawls; a significant plot exists but does not dominate the story. Tends to be the only set that uses an alignment spectrum for demons (again, excepting Nocturne), with the Law/Chaos spectrum taking focus over the Good/Evil spectrum (which doesn't always even exist). Typically have three independent ends, aligned along Law/Chaos/Neutral; Nocturne is the exception, with three Reasons and other...interested factions, along with a way to fail (!) at getting the Neutral end. No continuity, beyond certain repeated institutions in 1-3 (the Mesans/Law and the Gaians/Chaos) and certain Judeo-Christian motifs.

SMT Persona (1+2): All characters can have a customized Persona through Fusion mechanics, but Persona do not exist independently of people (unlike main line). Closer to the main line in that fusion and recruitment both exist, but recruitment method/success is tied to which characters you use to recruit. Weak continuity (1 and 2 are independent outside of character cameos; 2 is a duology).

SMT Persona (3+4): Like 1+2, but the Main Character is the only Wild Card (can change Persona). Includes social game mechanics which further empower Persona fusion, as well as the standard dungeon crawl. Fusion still exists, but recruitment does not; new Persona can be obtained from post-battle unlocks. Weak continuity (character cameos).

SMT Digital Devil Saga: Duology. Human characters transform into demons, which cannot be changed (unlike above). As demons cannot be changed, fusion mechanics do not exist, and character/demon levels are integrated. Level-up mechanics include levels and ability points, which are used in a "skill tree" grid. Strong continuity (play these two in order!).

SMT Devil Summoner (Devil Summoner/Soul Hackers): Never released in America, never played. Sorry.

SMT Devil Summoner (Raidou Kuzunoha): Never played these, despite meaning to. Sorry. Real-time mechanics, capture demons rather than recruit them, and that's essentially the limit of my knowledge.

SMT Devil Survivor: Demons summoned by people, and can exist independently (as in main-line). Battle takes place in TBS grid format rather than the conventional "FF-style" system in other games, with teams of two demons led by a player character moved around the field; attacking the opponent's teams leads to at least one round of the conventional system (depending on weaknesses hit). Fusion exists, but recruitment does not; new demons are obtained through "auction" mechanics outside of battle. Multiple endings based on characters.

[Cogwheel]

Snip

Thanks for typing everything I was too lazy to say Very helpful, particularly since I don't actually know very much at all about most of the series.

[Triscuitable]

1 hour left to get Dragon Age Collection for $12 on Amazon.

[Malek]

So I wonder - anyone else here plays, has played or even heard about Demise: Ascension? (Also known as Demise: Rise of the Ku'Tan when it first came out about a decade ago)

In case anyone wonders - Demise is a rather retro dungeon crawling game. Graphics are notably dated, plot serves as more of a background than anything else (though I hear the quests added by the Ascension expansion might be a bit more involved), but if someone - like me - likes to roam around dungeons exploring every nook and cranny they're in for a treat.

Spoiler

Show

That's not even a full level since the map didn't fit in the window. And the dungeon runs 35 levels deep

Oh and the game can get as nasty as roguelikes at times, that might appeal to some

[Starwulf]

awesomely written explanation

Thank you very much! That's pretty much exactly what I wanted to know, and more! It makes me even more interested in the rest of the SMT series!

[warty goblin]

Aaand it's Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning Demo Day!

Having downloaded and played through the tutorial, I have to say really, really like it. There seems to be lots of lore, but more importantly there seems to be the option to easily skip lots of lore, for which I am duly thankful. If you want more it looks like its there, but aside from covering the basic expository bases enough to be getting on with, the made-up history lectures seem entirely optional.

Also, unlike certain other recent open world RPGs they remembered to make the combat fun and use an interface that's not completely dreadful. And combat actually is fun too, responsive, versatile, well animated and easy to control (at least on an XBox controller, I'd imagine it's a lot less good on a mouse).

Even the art style is growing on me. It's no Witcher 2, but it's easy on the eyes. There's something about the glow of the torches that somehow perfectly hints at adventure, which shouldn't really be possible but there you have it.

And against all probability, the female armor seems to be generally non-stripperiffic.

There were some framerate hitches that I'm hoping are due to it being a demo of a game with a couple weeks before launch yet

[Mewtarthio]

So, what's Kingdoms of Amalur? I haven't actually heard anything about it outside this thread.

[Triscuitable]

So, what's Kingdoms of Amalur? I haven't actually heard anything about it outside this thread.

Curt Schilling retired baseball and made an action RPG.

On another note, I've got his rookie card somewhere.

[tyckspoon]

DDS2 starts like 30 seconds after DDS1 ends. One of the first few things you find out is the in-universe reason why your demigods from the end of DDS1 are back down to level 1 beginners in DDS2. So.. yeah. Play those in order.

The other games are loosely associated enough that you shouldn't feel guilty playing them in whatever order you manage to acquire them (although things like mechanics improvements between Persona 4 and 3 can make it hard to go backward, that's not a story leadon.) I'd even suggest skipping SMT 1/2/Persona 1/First story of Persona 2 (Innocent Sin, IIRC?); unless you're really obsessed with knowing every detail of how the world got where it is, the combination of incredibly outdated mechanics and being ludicrously difficult to find on these games makes them a lot more work than they're worth.

[warty goblin]

So, what's Kingdoms of Amalur? I haven't actually heard anything about it outside this thread.

Short version: an open world RPG sort of along the lines of Skyrim, but with a combat system that plays like one of those stylized third person action brawler games, albeit rather simpler - it seems to not really have combos. I like that, as explicit combos tend to annoy me. Instead you can switch weapons at any time, or fire off a power/spell thingy. I suspect with time it gets deeper.

I've only played about fifty minutes or so, but I get the impression that its somewhat less focused on providing an incredibly detailed world, and more on setting a nice looking fantasy playground in which to run around and stab things. I respect that, the genre as a whole, and Amalur's combat in particular, is so ridiculous playing it totally straight would be misguided. It's not self-parody by any means, and the fourth wall has remained blissfully intact, but the art style, the dialog, pretty much the whole package is, to me anyways, telling me it's in on the fun.

Also I think I might genuinely like the leveling system. It appears that every time you level up you get one pool of points for non-combat skills, and another for combat skills. Finally a person can actually be good at conversation and stabbing things without sacrificing on one or the other! Your class is also kinda flexible, so you can unlock new ones (and change to them) as you play, but I'm not far enough in yet to really see how that works, or how it interfaces with the skill system. Hopefully it should allow a good degree of flexibility and customization as the game progresses, and not lock me into a single narrow path.

[Zevox]

So, this is the thread for stuff that probably doesn't deserve its own thread, right?

I'm playing Blue Dragon right now. I'm enjoying it so far - it's a fairly standard JRPG, which isn't a surprise since its concept is basically Dragon Quest as done by the guy who created Final Fantasy, and of course I love the genre. The class system in particular is pretty nice, and looks like it rewards the hell out of multiclassing. But that's not really why I'm posting: I'm posting because, after a few boss fights, I felt compelled to share the game's awesome boss music. I haven't been this happy listening to the background music during a fight since Persona 4's fight music.

Oh, I'm also playing my first Phoenix Wright game. Almost done with the first game, actually (I've just finished the first day of trial on the fifth case). Very much enjoying that. So much goofiness. I mean, I called a parrot as a witness for crying out loud - and it worked.

...and I see the current topic of conversation is the Kingdoms of Amalur demo. Huh, I'd forgotten that released today. I'll download it tomorrow and join the conversation on that then.

The other games are loosely associated enough that you shouldn't feel guilty playing them in whatever order you manage to acquire them (although things like mechanics improvements between Persona 4 and 3 can make it hard to go backward, that's not a story leadon.) I'd even suggest skipping SMT 1/2/Persona 1/First story of Persona 2 (Innocent Sin, IIRC?); unless you're really obsessed with knowing every detail of how the world got where it is, the combination of incredibly outdated mechanics and being ludicrously difficult to find on these games makes them a lot more work than they're worth.

I don't think that the mechanics improvements between Persona 3 and 4 make the former at all hard to go back to myself. If you do though, it's worth noting that Persona 3 Portable implemented the most important of Persona 4's improvements (direct control of other party members and friendship paths for romantic interests' social links [for the new female main character anyway]), although it also included one of the changes that I thought was a step back in Persona 4, the inability to change your main character's weapon type.

I'll also second skipping Persona 1 and 2, unless you're really curious about them after playing 3 and 4. I picked up the PSP remakes of 1 and 2 (Innocent Sin) this year, and I don't think that I'll ever finish them. Some of the gameplay mechanics (especially the demon negotiations that are required to acquire the materials for making new Personas) are just too unbearable. And this is coming from someone who counts Persona 3 and 4 as his favorite two games ever.

Zevox