Relationship Woes and Advice 21: Time To Go Bar-Hopping

[Mutant Sheep]

It IS best to schedule Valentines day dates early. Way early.

[Flickerdart]

Um, that's an interesting concept I guess...

They get quite beautiful, you know, just google it.

And a cactus is far more versatile than a rose. It says either "unlike a rose, which quickly dies, our relationship will be both beautiful and enduring" or if you're not attractive/grumpy, "it's what's inside that counts". Or, if you get one shaped like a wiener, it says something entirely different.

[Pika...]

I think a better question might be why you're scheduling your first date both more than a month in advance, and for Valentine's Day to boot.

I asked her out, she chose the date. Eh, I thought Valentine's was this month?

[Skeppio]

I asked her out, she chose the date. Eh, I thought Valentine's was this month?

Valentine's Day is in February, good sir.

[Tragic_Comedian]

Well, normally I'd say not to get her anything on the first date, but seeing as it is Valentine's Day... Don't do anything too fancy. Small chocolates. Small thing of flowers.

[Xyk]

Relax, man. Try not to overthink it, because you have soooo much time. If it were me, I'd pick up some flowers that I thought looked pretty and were not symbolic of anything (like roses are). Chocolates are probably too much.

[Worira]

Well, just about every flower is symbolic of something or other, the symbolism just isn't as widely known as for roses. I'd also suggest avoiding roses, though, both for previously mentioned reasons and because roses are crazy expensive around Valentine's Day.

[GAThraawn]

My personal opinons are as follows: Giving her nothing on the first date is acceptable, and possibly even expected. Giving her anything probably displays an attitude that you genuinely care, which is a good thing. Giving her too much could come across as trying too hard, and be a little off-putting. Obviously, none of us know what she would consider too much.
I think chocolates, or flowers, would both be safe bets, and that both together are likely on the upper end of acceptable. I can imagine some women being flattered and some being a little overwhelmed, but probably not very many (read: only the crazy ones you don't want to be dating) that would use that as their reason to never see you again. Giving her a pony, probably going overboard.

If it were me, however, I'd make the effort to go beyond the classic flowers and chocolate, and try and get her something different. Something original. You do have nearly a month and a half to come up with ideas, I think you'd impress her much more with something personal and unique, rather than the ubiquetous flowers.

Admittedly, the first time I gave my girlfriend a gift was at Christmas, before we were dating, and Christmas gifts can be a different thing entirely than first date gifts, but I bought her an interesting scarf, that I thought she would like, lined a small gift box with it, and laid down in it a plush fox. (I happened to know she loved foxes). So when she opened it, she got a stuffed animal lying on a bed of scarf. This all cost me about $20, which is what you might spend on a good box of chocolates, or a nice bouquet. However, two years later, she still cuddles the fox and wears the scarf when she wants to be reminded of me, and they have much greater sentimental value than some chocolates.

So, my recommendation would be to get her something, probably around $20 or less, so you don't seem to be trying too hard, but something long-lasting and unique. It gives the impression that you care enough to give her something special, that you aren't simply giving the traditional first date gifts on auto-pilot, and if things go well with her, it may well be imbued with sentimental value.

What exactly I'd recommend depends entirely on the girl in question, so that really has to be up to you. Is there anything in particular you know she happens to like?

EDIT: \/ Aaaaaand, I've changed my mind. Get her that.

[Kindablue]

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[Iruka]

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This.

Alternatively, check out that link Worira posted and get a flower that is symbolic for something you like about her. A lot more personal than the standard roses.

[Mauve Shirt]

Do you know this chick or is this the first time you've met? For a first date I'd say get flowers, but not chocolates.

[Asta Kask]

Try to find out what the girl likes. Chocolate and roses say "generic woman" to me. Like you haven't put in the effort to find out what she wants. I learned this from my first girlfriend, who much preferred a book on calculus or quantum mechanics.

[Tyriont]

You've gotten some excellent advice regarding the gifts and being cautious of not coming across as trying too hard. Rather than give any massive relevations, I'd like to expand upon a few points given.

Firstly, Savannah has a very good point regarding allergies. As others have mentioned, showing up with both flowers and chocolates on a first date can be a little overwhelming. Therefore, I'd suggest giving a single, silk (or otherwise fake) flower. A single flower is much more subtle than a whole bouquet, but still has the message of "I was thinking of you and want to make an effort". I strongly suggest studying the language of flowers as Worira linked to find something that really symbolizes the message you want to convey. It also makes for an interesting conversation point. A silk flower will not only avoid the risk of triggering allergies, it'll also potentially last forever.

You mentioned that you were under the impression that the guy always pays. Historically, that was true...but things are quite different now. Nowadays, the more general rule seems to be "the one who did the asking pays". Many women have come to see the guy insisting on paying as somewhat insulting if it's done on every single date. Given that in this case you were the one who asked her out, you should pay in this instance. However, if she seems determined to pay her own way on this or any future dates - let her.

I hope this last note comes across in the spirit with which I intend it and I apologize if not. I get the impression that you might be overthinking things a bit and falling too much into the stereotype of what a first date is "meant" to be. (Personal note: if possible, try to think of something other than a movie. Going to see a movie is a terrible first date in my opinion, since you're sitting there in the dark and not conversing - first dates should be getting to know each other). Be creative, be spontaneous...and above all, be you. Listen to everyone who has told you to try and do things unique to her, that you think she'd like. They're steering you in the right direction.

[Coidzor]

Ugh. Anyone got any suggestions for how to get the foul taste out of one's mouth when an old flame, that one hasn't yet gotten rid of the damned torch one was carrying, gets engaged/married?

Because Pink Moscato sparkling wine that blew its top off last night isn't cutting it.

[arguskos]

Ugh. Anyone got any suggestions for how to get the foul taste out of one's mouth when an old flame, that one hasn't yet gotten rid of the damned torch one was carrying, gets engaged/married?

Because Pink Moscato sparkling wine that blew its top off last night isn't cutting it.

Nope. Wish I knew (similar situation myself).

[Vacant]

This isn't so much an immediate issue as it is a little piece of advice.

When suggesting, implying willingness, etc., for any act of sexytimes, please, please don't say "I'd be ok with it if you are, I guess." Seriously? It's not like choosing a restaurant. (Possibility that that's just my experience duly noted.) It's a serious, potentially life-changing decision, and is even more important when its one of the people in question's first times (it wasn't mine in this case, but still.) If all you have to say is "I'd be ok with it", I'm not really interested in taking part, especially if you're a long-term partner. I'm willing to wait until you're more than just lukewarm ambivalent.

/Rant.

I'm done, sorry, needed to get that out.

The thing is, sometimes one just doesn't really care. I always feel it's better to be as honest as possible with matters of consent. If you're not cool with "eh, whatever," that's your business, but that's also all the more reason you should want people to say that instead of lie.

Ugh. Anyone got any suggestions for how to get the foul taste out of one's mouth when an old flame, that one hasn't yet gotten rid of the damned torch one was carrying, gets engaged/married?

Because Pink Moscato sparkling wine that blew its top off last night isn't cutting it.

Yeah that's like, what, twelve percent? You're not going to kill your tastebuds (figurative or otherwise) until like the high forties. Get some Broker's Gin, Evan Williams Green Label, or Conquistador tequila. Unless you're feeling classier than ten dollars a bottle/fifteen a handle, then it's just the strongest brandy you can find.

On a personal note, I am in so many wonky situations so far over my head I could not even possibly hope to ask for advice. Stay tuned for very likely increasing of woes and/or confusion.

[Starwulf]

You mentioned that you were under the impression that the guy always pays. Historically, that was true...but things are quite different now. Nowadays, the more general rule seems to be "the one who did the asking pays". Many women have come to see the guy insisting on paying as somewhat insulting if it's done on every single date. Given that in this case you were the one who asked her out, you should pay in this instance. However, if she seems determined to pay her own way on this or any future dates - let her.

Hmm, I haven't been off the dating scene THAT long(about 10 years, give or take a few months), and around where I live, the guy paying was still pretty standard, and some of my buddies that ARE still single, still pay for their dates, and if you were to suggest to them that the woman should pay, they would look at you like your crazy(and almost certainly say something exactly to that effect). Maybe if you live in/near a bigger city where customs are different this might be true(but even then, I would ALWAYS say the guy is responsible for the first and second date), but in smaller areas, I'd always err to the side of "Guy pays for dates".

[Maelstrom]

Wow, you *really* like to plans things ****WAY**** out in advance... At least, that's my impression on reading your requests for advice.

Anyway, I am with the majority above, this is a first date, get to know her, and let her get to know the real you. Do not try to impress her with gifts (for which you had to go to a bulletin board to get advice); it will most likely come off as too forward and/or not sincere.

If you insist on getting her something (because you are just the generous/giving type) make it a small, inexpensive trinket. The girl is being asked to be taken to Wendy's, methinks she's not a material girl/woman...

[Delwugor]

I hope this last note comes across in the spirit with which I intend it and I apologize if not. I get the impression that you might be overthinking things a bit and falling too much into the stereotype of what a first date is "meant" to be. (Personal note: if possible, try to think of something other than a movie. Going to see a movie is a terrible first date in my opinion, since you're sitting there in the dark and not conversing - first dates should be getting to know each other). Be creative, be spontaneous...and above all, be you. Listen to everyone who has told you to try and do things unique to her, that you think she'd like. They're steering you in the right direction.

This is the advise I have given to my sons. Good stuff. The only thing I would add is to make it fun for both of you. First dates often end there but a fun one leaves a good impression.

As far as flowers give one single red rose. It says you mean something (which is probably why you asked her out) without overwhelming her. Don't worry about allergies (goes with the over-thinking part) because you just don't know. And a good sense of humor will overcome awkwardness if she turns out to be allergic.

[Maelstrom]

And a good sense of humor will overcome awkwardness if she turns out to be allergic.

And if she *is* allergic and gets bent out of shape because you went out of your way to be romantic, but did not get a thorough background check done up, you'll know instantly to move on ;)

You mentioned this is your first date ever...just have fun and relax

[valadil]

Is this someone you've known or a total stranger? I think it'll look desperate if you've purchased gifts for a total stranger. Less so if it's a friend who is willing to do v-day with you.

[KenderWizard]

Okay, first, Kindablue, that's amazing!!

Also:
On what to get
Flowers and chocolates are nice, if fairly generic. But when you're just getting to know someone, generic is good! I would go for one or the other. It is Valentine's Day, but it's also a first date. I'd say a gift is totally unnecessary on a first date, but such a tradition for Valentine's that if you want to, go for it. Definitely unnecessary for the family, though. A lot of people would be embarrassed that they didn't have anything for you, and you can end up in an escalating gift war. Or hurt their feelings if they can't reciprocate in kind. The best way to make a good impression is by being friendly and polite, not by throwing money or candy at them (particularly literally!). I lean towards flowers, because they're more special. Flowers mean special occasion. Chocolate is more everyday. Varies by person. I would also avoid red roses. Bit cliche and can be a bit strong for a first date. Looking up flower language is nice, but I would instead give her flowers that you yourself really like. I don't particularly care hyacinths mean "consistency of love" if I think they're ugly. Being able to say "I got you these poppies because they're my favourite flower and they match your electricity-generation cheek circles" is way nicer.

Also, I think that someone who is horrendously and angrily allergic to flowers but doesn't mention that before a traditional movie and dinner date has only themselves to blame. Throw the flowers out, get her some water, say sorry, laugh about it, pop into a shop and buy a box of chocolates to eat at the cinema in replacement, and bring her silk flowers next time.

On paying for dates
It is tradition that the man pays, but that's a tradition that dates from a time when women basically didn't have money. The replacement of "asker pays unless askee offers to split" makes much more sense. I would say offer, on a first date (that applies to either person). If ye can't negotiate paying for movie tickets, the relationship is doomed anyway.

[thubby]

for a first date i would avoid any gifts. but if you insist, make it something small.

[Bastian Weaver]

No no no, dude. There's a reason for girls to think that "boys don't know there are other flowers besides roses". And this reason is that every time we think about giving them flowers, we choose roses. Every. Time.
Which means that when she thinks about you, you're "one of the boys who gave me roses".
Personally, I think giving her flowers on the first date is sweet, especially if it's on Valentine's day. But I suggest you try to be a wee bit more original. Try some other flowers. Would be nice if you ask her what flowers does she like.
Another mistake is giving her a huuuuge bouquet. Sure, it looks good, and it feels significant. When you give, you give!
But it's a date, and she has to carry your present around. Small flowers smell just as nice as big ones, and they're much easier to carry.
As for candy - I wouldn't do it on first date. Maybe later.

[Kindablue]

Okay, first, Kindablue, that's amazing!!

Not as amazing as rainbow roses.

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Those aren't painted like the Pokerose appears to be, though; they actually feed the dye to them through their stems.

[PallElendro]

Buy chrysanthemums and cocoa-powdered truffles. {Scrubbed} Ladies love chrysanthemums and cocoa-powdered truffles.

Sorry, Starwulf. Internet thing.

[thubby]

according to (girl i dated briefly, we're still friendly) the origami flower i gave her was rather memorable.

[Starwulf]

Buy chrysanthemums and cocoa-powdered truffles. Edited for appropriateness love chrysanthemums and cocoa-powdered truffles.

I uhh, think you might want to remove the "Bitches". That's incredibly inappropriate, and I'm quite certain it's against forum rules.

[TinyMushroom]

according to (girl i dated briefly, we're still friendly) the origami flower i gave her was rather memorable.

This sounds awesome. I think I'll remember this for whenever I get a boyfriend (/girlfriend?)

[Traab]

Id say a single flower, pick a pretty one. Big bouquets are kind of a special occasion type of thing imo. Plus they are a bit bulky and a pita to put in a vase without screwing up the arrangement and making it look terrible. A single flower she can just put in a glass of water and head out for your date. Candy? eh, id say at most one of those small sampler packs, or a specific set if you know what she likes. No huge boxes with 50 pieces of chocolate in them. Once again, thats the sort of thing you save for anniversaries, or other special occasions. If you had been dating her for months beforehand then it would be alright, but as a first date thing it seems a bit much, but your mileage may vary.