Warhammer 40K Tabletop XV: "More People Should Be Punched In The Head."

[Renegade Paladin]

If the footslogging Assault Marines were in the Stormraven when it was destroyed while moving flat-out, why were they assaulting your Wraiths and Warriors instead of being dead? Units carried by a transport that moved flat out are killed if it is destroyed.

[lord_khaine]

No, thats only if its destroyed in the same turn as it moves flat out, this one was destroyed in the following turn.

[Renegade Paladin]

It moved flat out in turn one and was destroyed turn one. I fail to see how it was not destroyed in the same turn.

[Hootman]

[Battle report]

Well, I know the official Capture/Contest distance for any unit is 3" in normal game. However, if your models were on the first floor off the ground (traditionally, these floors are build 3" tall, and even then the rulebook says to treat them as 3" high unless you houserule otherwise), then they CAN capture the point if they're directly above it. So, the good news is that you MAY have tied on Objectives.

I do have one general question for the rest of the group, though, since this struck me as I was reading through--can you deploy a Dedicated Transport with nothing inside while SIMULTANEOUSLY holding the squad it belongs to in reserve (in this case, in the Stormraven)? That just seems odd to me.

[Renegade Paladin]

I do have one general question for the rest of the group, though, since this struck me as I was reading through--can you deploy a Dedicated Transport with nothing inside while SIMULTANEOUSLY holding the squad it belongs to in reserve (in this case, in the Stormraven)? That just seems odd to me.

Well, the reverse is true (you can deploy a squad and leave their transport in reserve, frequently done with drop pods) so I don't see why not.

[Squark]

If the footslogging Assault Marines were in the Stormraven when it was destroyed while moving flat-out, why were they assaulting your Wraiths and Warriors instead of being dead? Units carried by a transport that moved flat out are killed if it is destroyed.

Err.. Huh.

Makes sense, and it bugged me from a common sense point of view, but, you know, Common Sense/=/Rules. Plus, can't actually find the rules for that in the BBB.

As far as the objective, it wasn't actually in the ruins, but right outside of them. all I actually needed to do was drop the lead 'cron down a floor, but I didn't know I needed to do that.

[Tome]

It moved flat out in turn one and was destroyed turn one. I fail to see how it was not destroyed in the same turn.

IIRC, due to the way the term 'Turn' is used in the rules, by RAW it has to crash in the same player turn that it moves Flat Out. So in other words, practically never for a Fast Skimmer.

[lord_khaine]

IIRC, due to the way the term 'Turn' is used in the rules, by RAW it has to crash in the same player turn that it moves Flat Out. So in other words, practically never for a Fast Skimmer.

You should be carefull about not mixing RAW and RAI though.

Without that rule, you could crash your flat-out moving skimmer into something, like fx a hostile transport or a enemy tank.

And if your open-topped AV 10 skimmer then blew up ( a very likely outcome), then its passengers would then suddenly be standing in the heart of the enemy's army, just in time for a multi-charge.

[Badgercloak]

[QUOTE=Cheesegear;12832610]Looking good. Are you going all-Infantry on purpose, or is that just how it turned out?

I grabbed a few battle force boxes and the rest to try and get a good foundation for my army. Which now also has:

2x Drop pods
1x more Rhino for two all together
1x Whirlwind
1x Terminator squad
1x Assault Terminator squad
1x Dev squad box
1x Vanguard
1x Sternguard
1x Dreadnought
1x Landraider

[Winterwind]

...Well, looks like I have to keep writing. So, turns out that just because you aren't commenting, doesn't mean you don't care. But, it just turns out that it's really hard to notice.

I'll just add my voice to the others - please keep it up, this is fascinating! And thank you for all of the work you're doing here.

It moved flat out in turn one and was destroyed turn one. I fail to see how it was not destroyed in the same turn.

You have to pay close attention to whether rules talk about player turns or game turns. Whenever they don't specify, they refer to player turns.

Units inside a transport are not allowed to exit it if that transport has moved flat out in this player turn.
Vehicles that are immobilized are destroyed if they moved flat out in this or the previous player turn.

This means that if a transport moves flat out in turn 1 during player A's player turn, if it is destroyed during player A's player turn (which can essentially only happen if it rams something or has to roll for dangerous terrain), the troops inside can't exit, so are also destroyed.

If, on the other hand, it moves flat out in turn 1 during player A's player turn, but is then immobilized in turn 1 during player B's player turn, it is destroyed because it moved flat out during the previous player turn, but the troops inside are allowed to exit just fine, because it hasn't moved flat out in the player turn during which it was destroyed (even if it was the same game turn, because the rules care only for player turns here).

[Ricky S]

SO because I cant help myself I have started a thunderwolf cavalry army as well and now I am up to five 40k armies. Four of which are imperial armies. The only non thunderwolf stuff I have is two units of 5 greyhunters in razorbacks as troops.

I need some suggestions

1. I was wondering if Canis wolfborn is a good character to take. He seems a hell of a lot cheaper than a wolf lord with the same upgrades. The only downside is he doesnt have an invul save.

2. What is a the right amount of storm shields to take. I was thinking one per two wolf cav but for that amount I could buy more wolves with the spare points. So equipment over bodies?

3. How do you pronounce Canis? Is it Cane-nis? Or Carn-nis?

[Cheesegear]

1. I was wondering if Canis wolfborn is a good character to take. He seems a hell of a lot cheaper than a wolf lord with the same upgrades. The only downside is he doesnt have an invul save.

First off, Canis is a Battle Leader, not a Wolf Lord, and his Leadership is terrible so a squad gains nothing from having him in it. So, compare him to a Battle Leader, not a Wolf Lord.

And on that scale, he's roughly even.

What is a the right amount of storm shields to take. I was thinking one per two wolf cav but for that amount I could buy more wolves with the spare points. So equipment over bodies?

There is no 'right amout', but the minimum is 2.

How do you pronounce Canis? Is it Cane-nis? Or Carn-nis?

The same way you pronounce Canine as in dog or your teeth. As in Canis lupus, as in wolf.

A more not-obvious one is Sliscus. I've heard several people think it is Slice-us, as in to cut stuff up. But, his name reference is obvious to people who know, and it's pronounced Slis-kus.

[Squark]

So... question related to kitting out my new Space Wolves;

a) How many meltas/rocket launchers/plasmaguns come in a Space Wolves Pack Sprue (1/1/0? 1/2/0?)

b) How many meltaguns come in a pack of devestators Long fangs*

c) For long fangs; 4 Missile launchers and a lascannon, or 5 missile launchers?


*The reason I ask is a friend has a couple of spare Missile Launchers he doesn't need, so that would make kitting out the first group of Long fangs pretty easy, but I've heard the Space Wolves Pack sprues are a bit light on meltaguns

[BoSheck]

SO because I cant help myself I have started a thunderwolf cavalry army as well and now I am up to five 40k armies. Four of which are imperial armies. The only non thunderwolf stuff I have is two units of 5 greyhunters in razorbacks as troops.

Welcome, brother! Cheesegear was already kind enough to offer his input, but I can't help myself, so I'll throw in too.

I need some suggestions

1. I was wondering if Canis wolfborn is a good character to take. He seems a hell of a lot cheaper than a wolf lord with the same upgrades. The only downside is he doesnt have an invul save.

I never take Canis over a kitted Wolf Lord. Canis sees use in 'fun' thematic games and in high point games where I want something dedicated to infantry kiling and have over 10 Fenrisian wolves (units with Iron Priests on twolves, or with lone wolves or just packs hanging out by them selves)

2. What is a the right amount of storm shields to take. I was thinking one per two wolf cav but for that amount I could buy more wolves with the spare points. So equipment over bodies?

I always take 1 in a group of four and 2 or more in a group of 5+. You have to figure out what works for you.

So... question related to kitting out my new Space Wolves;

a) How many meltas/rocket launchers/plasmaguns come in a Space Wolves Pack Sprue (1/1/0? 1/2/0?)

No meltas. No rockets. More plasmaguns and pistols than you will ever use.
I should note the Space Wolf UPGRADE sprue (which has some cool bitz, like one-handed frost axes) has a single meltagun on it.

b) How many meltaguns come in a pack of devestators Long fangs*

There is one multimelta in the Dev box. Thats the closest you get. You can make two combi-meltas for wolf guard out of it, so...eh?

c) For long fangs; 4 Missile launchers and a lascannon, or 5 missile launchers?

I have had good success with the following Long Fang loadouts:
4-5x missiles; 3x missiles, 2x lascannons; 4x multimelta; 3x missile 2x heavy bolter (this one is always paired with a second squad that has more missile launchers).

Space wolves is kind of crazy because you can just make minor adjustments to point values here and there and suddenly you can afford another squad of long fangs or if you ever need to just fill 5, 10, 15 points there are always GREAT choices.

[Squark]

So, I'm going to have to buy the metal meltagun sprue if GW still has any. Well, that's 2 and a half squads worth, at least.

[Renegade Paladin]

So, I'm going to have to buy the metal meltagun sprue if GW still has any. Well, that's 2 and a half squads worth, at least.

They had some when I ordered one last month, but it took three weeks to get delivery.

Err.. Huh.

Makes sense, and it bugged me from a common sense point of view, but, you know, Common Sense/=/Rules. Plus, can't actually find the rules for that in the BBB.

It's in the errata, which is why.

[Zain]

Quick Tau Question, are Vespid good for anti-heavy infantry?

Also, is this the right place to ask for painting advice?

[Hootman]

Quick Tau Question, are Vespid good for anti-heavy infantry?

Also, is this the right place to ask for painting advice?

I don't know much about Tau, but I'm fairly certain Vespids are widely hated. I could be mixing that up with something else, though.

Also, this is the Painting Thread. Enjoy!

[Cheesegear]

Quick Tau Question, are Vespid good for anti-heavy infantry?

No. You need AP2 and/or S8+ for that. As wonderful as AP3 is, it is completely ignored by cover saves. The other problem is, that Vespids don't have the armour to soak the return fire just from Bolters alone. So, you might get one shot at it - if you're lucky.

The other problem with Vespids is that they come at the cost of Pathfinders and Piranhas. Both of which are better choices. If you need anti-Terminator weapons (since I assume that that's what anyone means when they say Heavy Infantry), you should probably grab more Crisis Suits with Plasma Rifles and Missile Pods.

[Ricky S]

First off, Canis is a Battle Leader, not a Wolf Lord, and his Leadership is terrible so a squad gains nothing from having him in it. So, compare him to a Battle Leader, not a Wolf Lord.

And on that scale, he's roughly even.

There is no 'right amout', but the minimum is 2.

The same way you pronounce Canine as in dog or your teeth. As in Canis lupus, as in wolf.

Wow I didnt even look at his leadership I just assumed it was 9 or 10 like most other marine Hq's. I was looking more at the killing potential. I am going to use a wolf lord for sure now though. leadership 8 is revolting on a character. At least it means I dont have to buy the canis model (although it does look pretty cool).

Hmmm... 3 storm shields for my unit of 5 and 2 each for the other units of 3 should do it.

Thats what I thought except some guy was adamant it was carn-nis. Good to know Im not insane.


@Zane

Never buy vespid unless you want to do a fluffy army or do some modelling/painting. On table top they are pretty useless.

@BoSheck

So how do you usually kit out your wolf lord?

For mine I was thinking pair of wolf claws, wolf tooth necklace, runic armour, belt of russ, thunderwolf and saga of the warrior born. Although that runs me up to 275pts which is almost 1/5 of my army. It should really put on the hurt though.

[Cheesegear]

Tyranids (cont.)

Was anyone else aware that Tyranids have a two page spread for every single FO Slot - including Troops! Meaning that Codex run-downs such as these ones take a long, long time to write. Especially because the Tyranid Codex isn't as simple as "This unit is bad.", in fact, more than half the Codex is "This unit is bad, except when..." which means you baiscally have to do an entry for every unit if you want to cater to everyone. And my reviews have always been 'for everyone' whenever I can help it. Anyway...

Troops

Spoiler

Show

Warriors: Probably the most misused - and therefore misunderstood - units in the entire Codex. Warriors are one of the single-most brutal units in the game, even before upgrades. Since Paladins hit the game, a lot of people try and make Paladin lists with their own Codex - to varying results - and Warriors are actually one of the better expys. Keep in mind that Warriors are Fearless, and walk around hampering Psychic Powers like bosses.

The issue with Warriors is that they often don't get where they need to be. To that end, you actually need to set your army up for them.

Hive Commander; Allows them to Outflank so they don't get brutalised.
Trygon; Allows the Warriors to pop up in your enemy's DZ, but, the Trygon first has to enter play, and Trygons are not exceptionally good anyway.
Venomthrope; If you plan to walk them up the board, basically mandatory.
Mycetic Spore; Drop your Warriors into your enemy's DZ. But Outflanking is way better.

At bare minimum, you'll need Venomthropes, or, walk them behind Carnifex Broods. Carnifex Broods get a bad wrap from most people. But they're just misunderstood like Warriors. Warriors also like - very much - to be given Feel No Pain by a Tervigon.

Scything Talons: Completely irrelevant if you have a Hive Tyrant with Old Adversary (if you want to play that way), but that generally means walking up the board with a Venomthrope or three. Certainly a good standard being that you're WS5. Being joined by a Prime (which means you don't have Old Adversary, so keep the Talons) can bump it up to WS6 to be really not fair.
Rending Claws: Not worth giving up your Talons for, not for 5 points.
Boneswords: Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. This guide was written with the inspiration that Tyranids finally got their second wave models. And Bonesword conversion packs were part of that wave. Rejoice. Unfortunately, the weren't made part of the Warrior box like they should've been this entire time.
Bonesword and Lash Whip: Very rarely should you need to shut down more than one model (and those scary Power Fists are already I1), and your Prime can do that. However, Tyranid Warriors are deathly afraid of Instant Death effects - especially if they go first - and to walk up to a unit of Purifiers and slap their Force Halberds aside and say "NO!" never gets old. Warriors with Lash Whips can mess up Grey Knights in a serious way. Just watch out for those Psycannons - they'll rip you a new one. If your meta isn't lousy with Knights (not the Warband kind, the proper Knights), then you'll be fine with Boneswords.

Devourers: You never need these. Not even shooty warriors want these, not really. If you really feel you need Devourers, take Termagants.
Rending Claws: If you're in combat, you need these. Otherwise a Walker will roflstomp you all day. Scything Talons and Rending Claws is an incredibly cheap and effective option (use Hive Commander). Seriously, all you lose is the Devourer.
Spinefists: Lose a point of strength. Gain AP5 (better than AP- by a long shot), and get Twin-Linked. Not a terrible trade, if not for the fact that you also lose 6" of range. If you need to get rid of Infantry, seriously. You're Warriors. Assault them and mess up their day.
Deathspitters: If you're in a Mycetic Spore, or need strong back-line Troops that don't die, take these. Only 5 points. Why would you not? And then swap your Scything Talons for Rending Claws.
Scything Talons: If you want two sets of Scything Talons, stop, take an Old Adversary instead, and sit in the corner and think about what you've done. There are few - if any - reasons why you'd want a pair of Talons over the Claws.

Neither Barbed Stranglers or Venom Cannons immediately jump out as being better than the other, since they do other things. I know, I know, vehicles are a problem for 'Nids. But S6 isn't anything to write home about. Take one or the other. It probably wont make that much of a difference, but you should have one of them.

Adrenal Glands: If you have Lash Whips, not necessary. If you don't, Boneswords + Adrenal Glands is the same cost and very effective. Very.
Toxin Sacs: You mean you have a hard time cutting through T3 models with Boneswords? Or do you mean that you're fighting T5+ stuff and don't have a boatload of Rending Claw attacks? At which point did you fail so hard that Toxin Sacs looked like a good idea?

Tyranid Warriors are an extremely solid choice. Even though they're actually quite large, they're still not Monstrous Creatures. Put 10 Termagants in front and get a 4+ Cover Save (in fact, according to the fluff, that's what Termagants are for, going ahead of Warriors) and casually walk up the board. Or just have three Carnifii in front and block LoS (the Warriors act as Synapse). If you aren't totally stupid, a Warrior costs 50 points tops, which is less than an un-upgraded Paladin. And Paladins are never not upgraded.

Remember, you've only got a 4+ save and Warriors are highly vulnerable to S8 weapons (Missile Fangs are terrifying for them). Either don't be on the board (Spore/Outflank...Or Trygon ), or have a 50-point Cover Save. Not having Assault Grenades should usually be offset by the fact that each model has three wounds - usually. And Lash Whips fixes that problem immedaitely. Adrenal Glands...Do not.

Genestealers: In short; Have lots or none. And by that I mean multiple Broods, not 20 in one Brood. You should never - ever - need more than 11 in one Brood.

Long form; Always take the Swarmlord. Always Outflank your Genestealers. All of them. Genestealers walk around with S4 Rending Claws as base, which means they have the same chance as ripping a vehicle in half as Warriors. But they have less attacks. But, if you can come off the Outflank and immediately Assault a vehicle, there shouldn't be too much left. The only problem being that you can't Assault whatever comes out if the vehicle is also a Transport - which is problematic. Hope you brought Heavy Vennom Cannons for that.

Scything Talons: 2 points isn't a big deal. Do it.
Adrenal Glads: 3 points isn't a big deal either.
Toxin Sacs: 22 points per Genestealer is getting pretty expensive. You don't need Toxin Sacs, but they're not bad either.

Always take Broodlords. Non-Independent HQ-level Characters rule.

Termagants (Lurk)*: There are two ways to use Termagants. Or, rather three. But in that extra way, you aren't actually using Termagants.

1. 50-point Cover Saves for your non-Monstrous Creatures who want to walk up the board. Have as many or as little as you think you need. Take Adrenal Glands or Toxin Sacs as needed. Don't upgrade any further. You're a cover save. Nothing more. Anything that Termagants do except die is a bonus, and that only happens if you're opponent only shoots whatever is behind the Termagants, and if that happens, aren't you glad for the 4+ Cover Save?

2. Devourers. Lots and lots of Devourers. Put a Synapse near them, and have a Fearless-shooty-death unit on an objective. If you think you need Adrenal Glands and Toxin Sacs on these Devourer-Gants, take Warriors instead.

*3. Tervigons-as-Troops: Take minimum-size squads, do not upgrade. Take Tervigons who carry the upgrades for them. If you play in a Mech-heavy environment, or people have more Lascannons and Plasma/Melta weapons in their army than you have digits (an Autolas Predator is 2, a Plaserback is 2 - not counting the Melta inside), this particular army build falls to crap very quickly. Your Tervigons will be exploding every turn, taking with them a whole lot of Gants.
Tervigons and Gants have no way of dealing with vehicles. No matter how many Gants you spawn, 10bil x 0 = 0. Unless you're Assaulting with Adrenal Glands trying to Glance RA10. And that means your Tervigons had to walk up behind probably not in cover getting shot at - a lot. So I don't actually think that actually happened in a competitive environment.

Hormagaunts (Feed): Basically that first kind of Termagants, except they can't do anything as they walk up the board, except they 'walk' very, very fast (and run out of Synapse range all too often, but then Feed with no ranged weapons, so it's okay). They need either Toxin Sacs or Adrenal Glands. One or the other. Adrenal Glands are better when Outflanking, Toxin Sacs when not. If you do feel like paying 10 points per Hormagaunt, take Warriors instead.

Ripper Swarms: No. They don't Score. They don't provide Cover Saves and each base costs as much as a Termagant with a Devourer - which you would be better off with, because they Score in the back. If you do feel like taking Rippers (because they were free in your other boxes and you need to make points up somehow and instead of buying Regeneration for your Hive Tyrant you take three Ripper bases), Toxin Sacs are really the only worthwhile upgrade...If you took Rippers...

Barely over halfway done.

[EndlessWrath]

Quick Tau Question, are Vespid good for anti-heavy infantry?

Also, is this the right place to ask for painting advice?

I'm building a tau force so I've been looking into tau strategy. Which units are good vs which are bad. which are overpriced (most) and which are solid choices...

Basically the summary of what I keep getting is.. For elites you should be choosing Crisis suits. I personally like stealth..but that's just me >.> and I'm only doing 6 of them. Otherwise all suits. For HS you do broadsides.. I'm choosing a Hammerhead despite it's expensive nature. But the general note that I keep getting is... why waste your points on things that aren't suits, suits, and more suits?

I think vespids are good.. I know some of my friends prefer running pathfinders instead. However Vespid are worth considering. They're fast and pack a solid punch. in the fluff their mobility is favored by Firewarrior Crisis suits... Because tau like finding similarities instead of complimenting differences.
I like mix and matching my units for tau instead of massive redundancy.. so I plan on getting pathfinders and piranhas. I like how both those units work and prefer them. I think Vespids pack a lot more firepower than both those units however.. and definitely could mess up a unit or two before going down. ESPECIALLY Spehss Mahreens.

-------
I'm looking at using my Stealth suits as a guarding unit for my Suits/Broadsides or point taking firewarriors. What Battle/support system would you all recommend. I'm thinking 2x Fusion blasters and 4 burst cannons in the group... but They can pick up a system so long as everyone does.

-Wrath

[Teln]

So how do you usually kit out your wolf lord?

For mine I was thinking pair of wolf claws, wolf tooth necklace, runic armour, belt of russ, thunderwolf and saga of the warrior born. Although that runs me up to 275pts which is almost 1/5 of my army. It should really put on the hurt though.

Drop the armor, the belt and the necklace, and replace a wolf claw with a storm shield. That takes you down to 220 points, strips out a great deal of pointless duplication (you've already got a bonus attack from your Twolf, and wolf claws already let you reroll to hit--that and WS 6 should be all you need) and gives you a better invulnerable save.

[Ricky S]

I'm building a tau force so I've been looking into tau strategy. Which units are good vs which are bad. which are overpriced (most) and which are solid choices...

Basically the summary of what I keep getting is.. For elites you should be choosing Crisis suits. I personally like stealth..but that's just me >.> and I'm only doing 6 of them. Otherwise all suits. For HS you do broadsides.. I'm choosing a Hammerhead despite it's expensive nature. But the general note that I keep getting is... why waste your points on things that aren't suits, suits, and more suits?

I think vespids are good.. I know some of my friends prefer running pathfinders instead. However Vespid are worth considering. They're fast and pack a solid punch. in the fluff their mobility is favored by Firewarrior Crisis suits... Because tau like finding similarities instead of complimenting differences.
I like mix and matching my units for tau instead of massive redundancy.. so I plan on getting pathfinders and piranhas. I like how both those units work and prefer them. I think Vespids pack a lot more firepower than both those units however.. and definitely could mess up a unit or two before going down. ESPECIALLY Spehss Mahreens.

-------
I'm looking at using my Stealth suits as a guarding unit for my Suits/Broadsides or point taking firewarriors. What Battle/support system would you all recommend. I'm thinking 2x Fusion blasters and 4 burst cannons in the group... but They can pick up a system so long as everyone does.

-Wrath

Hammerheads are anti infantry while broadsides are anti tank. So I tend to take 2 units of broadsides and 1 hammerhead.

Vespid are not good. They are lightly armoured and only have a single 12" ap3 shot. If you want ap3 you can get three shots at 12" on a crisis suit with plasma and fusion while being better armoured.

Vespid also have fleet which is completely useless because with the strength of a guardsman they shouldnt be in combat. They have high initiative as well which is pretty useless because anything that is worth assaulting ( guard infantry/other tau) will get to attack first anyway because vespid lack grenades.

At best you can kill about 3 marines in cover before they get rapid fired to death. They just arent efficient. They should not be taken.

[Sila Prirode]

Tyranids (cont.)

Was anyone else aware that Tyranids have a two page spread for every single FO Slot - including Troops! Meaning that Codex run-downs such as these ones take a long, long time to write. Especially because the Tyranid Codex isn't as simple as "This unit is bad.", in fact, more than half the Codex is "This unit is bad, except when..." which means you baiscally have to do an entry for every unit if you want to cater to everyone. And my reviews have always been 'for everyone' whenever I can help it. Anyway...

Troops

Spoiler

Show

Warriors: Probably the most misused - and therefore misunderstood - units in the entire Codex. Warriors are one of the single-most brutal units in the game, even before upgrades. Since Paladins hit the game, a lot of people try and make Paladin lists with their own Codex - to varying results - and Warriors are actually one of the better expys. Keep in mind that Warriors are Fearless, and walk around hampering Psychic Powers like bosses.

The issue with Warriors is that they often don't get where they need to be. To that end, you actually need to set your army up for them.

Hive Commander; Allows them to Outflank so they don't get brutalised.
Trygon; Allows the Warriors to pop up in your enemy's DZ, but, the Trygon first has to enter play, and Trygons are not exceptionally good anyway.
Venomthrope; If you plan to walk them up the board, basically mandatory.
Mycetic Spore; Drop your Warriors into your enemy's DZ. But Outflanking is way better.

At bare minimum, you'll need Venomthropes, or, walk them behind Carnifex Broods. Carnifex Broods get a bad wrap from most people. But they're just misunderstood like Warriors. Warriors also like - very much - to be given Feel No Pain by a Tervigon.

Scything Talons: Completely irrelevant if you have a Hive Tyrant with Old Adversary (if you want to play that way), but that generally means walking up the board with a Venomthrope or three. Certainly a good standard being that you're WS5. Being joined by a Prime (which means you don't have Old Adversary, so keep the Talons) can bump it up to WS6 to be really not fair.
Rending Claws: Not worth giving up your Talons for, not for 5 points.
Boneswords: Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. This guide was written with the inspiration that Tyranids finally got their second wave models. And Bonesword conversion packs were part of that wave. Rejoice. Unfortunately, the weren't made part of the Warrior box like they should've been this entire time.
Bonesword and Lash Whip: Very rarely should you need to shut down more than one model (and those scary Power Fists are already I1), and your Prime can do that. However, Tyranid Warriors are deathly afraid of Instant Death effects - especially if they go first - and to walk up to a unit of Purifiers and slap their Force Halberds aside and say "NO!" never gets old. Warriors with Lash Whips can mess up Grey Knights in a serious way. Just watch out for those Psycannons - they'll rip you a new one. If your meta isn't lousy with Knights (not the Warband kind, the proper Knights), then you'll be fine with Boneswords.

Devourers: You never need these. Not even shooty warriors want these, not really. If you really feel you need Devourers, take Termagants.
Rending Claws: If you're in combat, you need these. Otherwise a Walker will roflstomp you all day. Scything Talons and Rending Claws is an incredibly cheap and effective option (use Hive Commander). Seriously, all you lose is the Devourer.
Spinefists: Lose a point of strength. Gain AP5 (better than AP- by a long shot), and get Twin-Linked. Not a terrible trade, if not for the fact that you also lose 6" of range. If you need to get rid of Infantry, seriously. You're Warriors. Assault them and mess up their day.
Deathspitters: If you're in a Mycetic Spore, or need strong back-line Troops that don't die, take these. Only 5 points. Why would you not? And then swap your Scything Talons for Rending Claws.
Scything Talons: If you want two sets of Scything Talons, stop, take an Old Adversary instead, and sit in the corner and think about what you've done. There are few - if any - reasons why you'd want a pair of Talons over the Claws.

Neither Barbed Stranglers or Venom Cannons immediately jump out as being better than the other, since they do other things. I know, I know, vehicles are a problem for 'Nids. But S6 isn't anything to write home about. Take one or the other. It probably wont make that much of a difference, but you should have one of them.

Adrenal Glands: If you have Lash Whips, not necessary. If you don't, Boneswords + Adrenal Glands is the same cost and very effective. Very.
Toxin Sacs: You mean you have a hard time cutting through T3 models with Boneswords? Or do you mean that you're fighting T5+ stuff and don't have a boatload of Rending Claw attacks? At which point did you fail so hard that Toxin Sacs looked like a good idea?

Tyranid Warriors are an extremely solid choice. Even though they're actually quite large, they're still not Monstrous Creatures. Put 10 Termagants in front and get a 4+ Cover Save (in fact, according to the fluff, that's what Termagants are for, going ahead of Warriors) and casually walk up the board. Or just have three Carnifii in front and block LoS (the Warriors act as Synapse). If you aren't totally stupid, a Warrior costs 50 points tops, which is less than an un-upgraded Paladin. And Paladins are never not upgraded.

Remember, you've only got a 4+ save and Warriors are highly vulnerable to S8 weapons (Missile Fangs are terrifying for them). Either don't be on the board (Spore/Outflank...Or Trygon ), or have a 50-point Cover Save. Not having Assault Grenades should usually be offset by the fact that each model has three wounds - usually. And Lash Whips fixes that problem immedaitely. Adrenal Glands...Do not.

Genestealers: In short; Have lots or none. And by that I mean multiple Broods, not 20 in one Brood. You should never - ever - need more than 11 in one Brood.

Long form; Always take the Swarmlord. Always Outflank your Genestealers. All of them. Genestealers walk around with S4 Rending Claws as base, which means they have the same chance as ripping a vehicle in half as Warriors. But they have less attacks. But, if you can come off the Outflank and immediately Assault a vehicle, there shouldn't be too much left. The only problem being that you can't Assault whatever comes out if the vehicle is also a Transport - which is problematic. Hope you brought Heavy Vennom Cannons for that.

Scything Talons: 2 points isn't a big deal. Do it.
Adrenal Glads: 3 points isn't a big deal either.
Toxin Sacs: 22 points per Genestealer is getting pretty expensive. You don't need Toxin Sacs, but they're not bad either.

Always take Broodlords. Non-Independent HQ-level Characters rule.

Termagants (Lurk)*: There are two ways to use Termagants. Or, rather three. But in that extra way, you aren't actually using Termagants.

1. 50-point Cover Saves for your non-Monstrous Creatures who want to walk up the board. Have as many or as little as you think you need. Take Adrenal Glands or Toxin Sacs as needed. Don't upgrade any further. You're a cover save. Nothing more. Anything that Termagants do except die is a bonus, and that only happens if you're opponent only shoots whatever is behind the Termagants, and if that happens, aren't you glad for the 4+ Cover Save?

2. Devourers. Lots and lots of Devourers. Put a Synapse near them, and have a Fearless-shooty-death unit on an objective. If you think you need Adrenal Glands and Toxin Sacs on these Devourer-Gants, take Warriors instead.

*3. Tervigons-as-Troops: Take minimum-size squads, do not upgrade. Take Tervigons who carry the upgrades for them. If you play in a Mech-heavy environment, or people have more Lascannons and Plasma/Melta weapons in their army than you have digits (an Autolas Predator is 2, a Plaserback is 2 - not counting the Melta inside), this particular army build falls to crap very quickly. Your Tervigons will be exploding every turn, taking with them a whole lot of Gants.
Tervigons and Gants have no way of dealing with vehicles. No matter how many Gants you spawn, 10bil x 0 = 0. Unless you're Assaulting with Adrenal Glands trying to Glance RA10. And that means your Tervigons had to walk up behind probably not in cover getting shot at - a lot. So I don't actually think that actually happened in a competitive environment.

Hormagaunts (Feed): Basically that first kind of Termagants, except they can't do anything as they walk up the board, except they 'walk' very, very fast (and run out of Synapse range all too often, but then Feed with no ranged weapons, so it's okay). They need either Toxin Sacs or Adrenal Glands. One or the other. Adrenal Glands are better when Outflanking, Toxin Sacs when not. If you do feel like paying 10 points per Hormagaunt, take Warriors instead.

Ripper Swarms: No. They don't Score. They don't provide Cover Saves and each base costs as much as a Termagant with a Devourer - which you would be better off with, because they Score in the back. If you do feel like taking Rippers (because they were free in your other boxes and you need to make points up somehow and instead of buying Regeneration for your Hive Tyrant you take three Ripper bases), Toxin Sacs are really the only worthwhile upgrade...If you took Rippers...

Barely over halfway done.

Ok, troop section, that's my cue to enter.
My friend (the only 'nid player in group) usually runs his troop choices like this:
-bunch of Genestealers with Broodlord (almost 20 of them) and Glands
-two units of 20ish Termagants
That's his core army, other usually goes for Zoanthropes, or Carnifex (or two), and more MCs, Swarmlord or Hive Tyrant, etc.
Now, his Termagants are not upgraded, and they have yet to make an meaningful impact on game (except objective squatting). I told him to look into Tervigons but he really wants his Genestealers.
And as for Genestealers, I just fail to see what they bring to his army. Most of the time he outflanks them, assaults something in range (last game it was a single Rhino), and then promptly dies trying to reach something else, to bolter fire no less. And not a large number of it, mind you, it was one unit od 10 Chaos Marines with one Meltagun firing two rounds into his 'Stealer that stoped him from assaulting (he had around 5 of them ready for assault by the time he came into range).
Now, our metagame isn't really full of vehicles. A couple of Rhinos, one Hammerhead, some Ork vehicles, two Fire Prisms. Maybe some Necrons ones (if that guy finally buys them). So it's not like we auto-counter Tyranids.
So, thanks for all the advice, I'm forwarding this to him, let's hope he gives it a good read.

[Cheesegear]

-bunch of Genestealers with Broodlord (almost 20 of them) and Glands
-two units of 20ish Termagants

Make it three units of Genestealers, and they shouldn't be anywhere close to being big units of 20. Get rid of those Termagants. They're either ablative cover saves, or they're very shooty, or they're for Tervigons or they shouldn't be there.

Now, his Termagants are not upgraded, and they have yet to make an meaningful impact on game (except objective squatting)

So, situation normal, then?

And as for Genestealers, I just fail to see what they bring to his army.

That's because he doesn't have enough of them. Enough broods, not models. If he really, really, really wants Genestalers that don't die to Bolter fire, tell him to swap to Ymgarls.

[Sila Prirode]

Make it three units of Genestealers, and they shouldn't be anywhere close to being big units of 20. Get rid of those Termagants. They're either ablative cover saves, or they're very shooty, or they're for Tervigons or they shouldn't be there.

That's because he doesn't have enough of them. Enough broods, not models. If he really, really, really wants Genestalers that don't die to Bolter fire, tell him to swap to Ymgarls.

W already talked about Ymgarls, but the problems is, he doesn't like any troop choices in the codex, as much as I try to convince him that Warriors are probably the best (unless Tervigon spamming). And it's not like you can just skip Troops. Thanks for advice btw, it's not to know why this is the only forum that I go for WH talks.

[Cheesegear]

W already talked about Ymgarls, but the problems is, he doesn't like any troop choices in the codex, as much as I try to convince him that Warriors are probably the best (unless Tervigon spamming).

As I said; Tervigons and Termagants don't do a whole when your meta gets its act together and starts playing with a Lascannon or two in every slot and Melta/Plasma on every infantry unit. Your Tervigons start dropping like flies (and thus, so do your Gants), and then your Ld6 Gants start getting Tank Shocked off the board.

None of the Tyranid Troops work well on their own. It's a giant flaw in the Codex, but it's true. Tyranids require more synergy than other armies because that's the way the 'dex is written (i.e; poorly).

Tyranids and Tau are well-known to dominate the casual (usually all-Infantry/Hybrid lists and never Imperial Guard) meta-game, so I don't know what your friend is doing wrong.

[BoSheck]

@BoSheck

So how do you usually kit out your wolf lord?

For mine I was thinking pair of wolf claws, wolf tooth necklace, runic armour, belt of russ, thunderwolf and saga of the warrior born. Although that runs me up to 275pts which is almost 1/5 of my army. It should really put on the hurt though.

-1 Claw, -1 Belt of Russ +1 Storm Shield. 3++ is better than 1 more attack and it saves you points. Get him some Fenrisian Wolves for extra wounds vs. shooting; I can't emphasize that enough. If you're hurting for points drop the saga, if you're still hurting for points, drop the wolftooth necklace, he's WS 6, for crying out loud. If you have 5 points extra, get a wolftail talisman. (This is especially true if you aren't bringing a Rune Priest along).

[Sila Prirode]

As I said; Tervigons and Termagants don't do a whole when your meta gets its act together and starts playing with a Lascannon or two in every slot and Melta/Plasma on every infantry unit. Your Tervigons start dropping like flies (and thus, so do your Gants), and then your Ld6 Gants start getting Tank Shocked off the board.

None of the Tyranid Troops work well on their own. It's a giant flaw in the Codex, but it's true. Tyranids require more synergy than other armies because that's the way the 'dex is written (i.e; poorly).

Tyranids and Tau are well-known to dominate the casual (usually all-Infantry/Hybrid lists and never Imperial Guard) meta-game, so I don't know what your friend is doing wrong.

I don't know what is he doing wrong per se, but as far as casual metagames go, we are fairly serious. Most of the guys I play with are gamers at heart, we always play to win. So everyone reads around, asks about certain builds, units, loadouts and such. I have read more about CSM codex and it's units online then most people did with just their codex. So it's more of a thing that everyone knows what are they doing with their lists, and not just 'nids player being wrong.
Also him taking a bunch of bad units also comes to mind. I will never forget the game where he thought Zoan's need no LoS blocking because of 3+ save.