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  1. - Top - End - #781
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Griffon

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XV: "More People Should Be Punched In The Head."

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    I lost track of things for a while. Things seemed to blur and the thread was going really fast. If you wrote a Guide at any point during the thread, can you post a link (or links) to the posts, or at least the page if you don't know how to get individual posts?
    Thanks for the reminder - I've made my additions, so here we are. Codex: Eldar v1.2, starting with HQ and Elites

    HQ
    Spoiler
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    Farseer
    Let's start at the top; non-Special character Eldar HQ units don't get better than the Farseer, when they're done properly. This is not necessarily a compliment. And by “properly" we mean "don't put them in any position where they have to fight something". Their stat-line and list of abilities should be a loud and clear warning that you are to use the guy for supporting the rest of your army, not being it's spearhead. Letting your opponent shoot at or - God forbid - get into close combat with your T3, A1 non-Eternal Warrior is Christmas come early for him.

    • Runes of Warding: In most metagames, this upgrade is mandatory. It has no maximum range and doesn't require line of sight, so if it's not a nasty inconvenience for guys like Mephiston then it's completely shutting down entire armies like Grey Knights and quite a lot of Daemons and Tyranids.
    • Runes of Witnessing: Not such a good idea - while it reduces yours chance of rolling double 6's, it also significantly increases your chance of double 1's, so you're not really improving anything. While the Ghost Helm will save you most of the time, if you're using a lot of powers it's generally safer just to rely on Ld10 doing all the hard work for you and then back it up with a Warlock with the Embolden power.
    • Spirit Stones: Never to be used in conjunction with Runes of Witnessing, as your Farseer will eventually do himself more harm than good. That said, in smaller games where you can only make room for one Farseer it's extremely helpful to be able to use Guide and Fortune, or Guide and Doom, in the same turn. If you have more than one Farseer, however, you can usually get away with overlooking 'Stones for something else.
    • Singing Spear: On paper, an important upgrade. Why not give him a s9 shot that doubles as a handy can-opener against tanks, for 3 measly points? The answer is, because your Farseer shouldn't be in any position to use it, that's why! If you're 12" away from the enemy, they *might* take one casualty, and then they are going to Assault you and you are going to die. Don't leave yourself open to temptation – if you want to kill one guy per shooting phase, Mind War him instead and make it count and then stab his buddies twice in the Assault phase.
    • Jetbike: Expensive, and requires a lot of (also expensive) support, however when used right a Farseer on a Jetbike can be a game winner. Effectively, it means that you will never be out of range for Mind War and/or Doom. On a Jetbike with a bodyguard, is also the only place to genuinely consider taking a Singing Spear - you're fast enough to get away from threats of Assault while also fast enough to get within striking range in the first turn. If your Farseer is with Guardians, give him a 'Spear and he becomes their Tank Killer; if he's with anything else, don't bother as they probably have their own ways and means of doing the same thing, but better.


    Psychic Powers
    • Doom: No Farseer should leave home without it. Good range, and it can benefit anything in your army rather than a few units in specific situations. There are no circumstances that require you to NOT kill your enemies, so you might as well do it efficiently.
    • Guide: Since you're not supposed to put your Farseer near the front line, this is a good power to give to him while he is lurking in cover, near your Heavy weapons. If you're not into that sort of thing and prefer a fast, close combat army, don't waste your points on re-rolling to hit with Shuriken Pistols.
    • Mind War: Extremely useful, particularly on a Jetbike. Also known as 'Turn 1: Kill That Guy With A Lascannon, Or That Monstrous Creature Too Tough Or Far Away To Be Hurt By Shurikens'. Often a good way to deal with enemy Psychic Hoods, if you're feeling brave and want to risk a straight coin flip to see who wins. A lucky roll early on, however, will reap a great benefit over the next few turns.
    • Eldritch Storm: Much better in the previous edition, when a vehicle used up it's movement to turn itself around on the spot. Nowadays all you're doing is risking a small chance that your enemy might be pinned (Rangers are better for this task) or an even smaller chance of exposing rear armour on an enemy vehicle for 1 turn. Too random, either way - avoid.
    • Fortune: Combined with a unit that has high toughness or an invulnerable save - Warlocks, or Wraithguard, for example - Fortune ensures that they aren't going to die. In the case of Wraithguard, who are already 3+ and can be given 5++ with a nearby Warlock, ever. If your army is light on these sorts of units, or you have a play-style that requires lots of fast, light units, it's not so good. Re-rolling a 5+ save probably isn't going to help you as much as killing your opponent before he can shoot you, so in such a circumstance Doom is a better choice.


    Warlock Bodyguard
    You won't need very many before the squad gets extremely expensive, but they're one of precious few Eldar sources that have an invulnerable save. If your Farseer is riding a Jetbike, along with these guys such a unit has been known to stampede through a surprising number of Tournaments for their ability to soak up an impressive amount of fire-power and then kill whatever they reach in their own turn. On foot, they're not so hot due to low toughness and lack of Attacks/Power Weaponry. In a perfect world, Witchblades would be Force Weapons. Alas.....

    • Jetbike: Farseer + Fortune + Jetbikes + Invulnerable Saves = extremely resilient, always able to get where you need them, and enough s9 attacks will kill anything quickly. Just try not to get carried away and take too many of them; you're going to be spending a hideously large amount of points on a none-scoring unit, so plan accordingly.
    • Singing Spear: A given unit of Warlocks should contain one guy with the Enhance power, one guy with Embolden *IF* they're with a Farseer and everyone else with Destructor. Those two odd guys can take a Singing Spear in order to give themselves something to do in the Shooting phase and to crack Tanks if you find that you have fallen short/haven't already given one to the Farseer. Also as with the Farseer entry, you're better off having more attacks in Assault than one and a short ranged shooting attack.
    • Wave Serpent: If you have a big unit of Warlocks, this is the slightly cheaper alternative to Jetbikes. Since a unit of Fortune'd Warlocks are one of the most likely things in the Codex to survive the turn after disembarking, and because Wave Serpents are so awesome (more on that later) this is not as unlikely as it sounds. Even so, taking a Wave Serpent with a Warlock bodyguard almost certainly means that you're also putting your Farseer on the front line, and inevitably on foot. THINK. VERY. CAREFULLY. About what you're about to do.
    • Spirit Seer: A Warlock Bodyguard doesn't need this. If you're crazy about Wraithguard then they can have their own private Warlock, and there's enough other places to put a single Spirit Seer within range of a Wraithlord that you won't have two of your most expensive units within range of a single artillery barrage.


    Psychic Powers
    • Conceal: Useful for an individual Warlock that is attached to a unit of Troops, virtually useless in a Bodyguard who already have 3+/4++.
    • Enhance: At least 1 member of the Bodyguard unit should always have this power. You only need 1, and (Vindicare/enemy Mind War antics aside) he should be the last person to die.
    • Embolden: Your Farseer hasn't taken Runes of Witnessing. A Farseer can join a unit of Warlocks. Psychic powers are "a normal leadership test". See what I'm getting at? (Cheat code: Take 1 guy with this power if a Farseer has joined the unit, and save yourself the price of a set of more dangerous Runes of Warding). Certainly, don't take Embolden and Runes of Warding – if you're regularly rolling 3d6, picking the lowest 2 and finding that you need a re-roll, your money would be better spent on new dice, than new models......
    • Destructor: Everyone who doesn't have [i]Embolden[i] or Enhance, should a) always have this instead (on foot) or b) probably have it anyway (if mounted on Jetbikes). Twin-Linked Shuriken Catapults are usually "okay", Destructor can sometimes be "great", so take your pick depending on what you're going to do with them.


    Autarch
    If you prefer a more aggressive play style, or want to use lots of the more exotic Eldar units, then an Autarch is the man for you. A respectable stat-line and not a bad cost, though again he's let down by a paltry T3. If you hadn't noticed, this is going to be a reoccurring - and depressing - theme.
    • Master Strategist: Manipulating the Reserves roll can be crucial to the success of an army that relies on lots of Reserves, especially if it has a very heavy Swooping Hawk theme as the bonus stacks if you have more than one Autarch and are intending to Skyleap a lot. I wouldn't complain too loud since on such a cheap model you're getting it for "free", but there are better abilities that he could have had in an ideal world.
    • Haywire Grenades: Oooh, shiny! Again they're "free", and you never know when a Tank Shock is going to come out of no-where. Don't rely on them to be your only source of Tank Killing, if you're building a Tank Killer Autarch though - 1/6 is not good odds, especially when Fusion Guns are cheap, plentiful and just better.


    Now, choosing equipment for your Autarch is going to rely incredibly heavily on what he is expected to do in your army - there's no point in giving him a Laser Lance and a Jetbike if there are no other Jetbikes in your army, for example - he's just going to be shot to bits. Similarly, even with WS6, a (s3!) power weapon and a 4++ save, sending him into a melee solo will not end well.
    The idea, instead, is to pick a unit for him to accompany and equip him appropriately - the following are just guidelines for what to do when you have made that choice:

    • Swooping Hawk Wings: ….Are NOT interchangeable with a Jump Generator, although Master Strategist only requires the Autarch to be alive - not necessarily on the table - for Sky Leaping shenanigans.
    • Warp Jump Generator: ….Is NOT interchangeable with Hawk Wings, if you want to use the Warp Jump feature. Which you should NEVER, EVER do without first being attached to a unit of Warp Spiders, because Instant-Death-No-Save on your Autarch really isn't funny.
      Quite frankly, the Autarch doesn't need either of these things, with the sole exception of having him join the appropriate squad. Between the two, he does more for 'Hawks than 'Spiders, but you'd need a pretty spectacular plan in mind to invest so much in such a hit-or-miss unit.
    • Jet Bike: You don't give an Autarch a Jetbike so that he can join a unit of Shining Spears - they really don't need his help. No; you do it so that he can take a Reaper Launcher and be Relentless with it. Or occasionally, if he's hanging out with Jetbike Guardians, a Fusion Gun so that he can be there as the “I-Kill-Tanks” guy.
    • Banshee Mask: Your Autarch is already I6 and has both types of grenades, so there aren't many times when he won't be going first anyway. Generally he's better off with.....
    • Mandiblasters: What's that? A5 (+1 on the charge), probably with a Power Weapon at I6 and WS6? Okay, you're only s3, but that's still pretty funny.
    • Power Weapon: See above. Lots of attacks with a Power Weapon is hilarious.
    • Scorpion Chainsword: A reasonable alternative; most things in the game are T4-ish, so being s4 in response can be very helpful. Still, all things considered, rather than risk your opponent getting any save your best plan is to take a Power Weapon and then Doom your target so that s3 isn't such an issue any more.
    • Laser Lance: While very good, Lances are an expensive option, since it requires a Jetbike to pull off. Guardian Jetbikes don't want to be in Assault and will be a death sentence to any Autarch stuck with them if that happens regardless of what weapon the Autarch has; Warlock Bodyguards need to be careful as to the cost of any IC they have with them, as they very quickly become a points-sink; and Shining Spears can generally be relied upon to get the job done on their own. Generally speaking, an Autarch on a Jetbike serves you better by taking an unexpected weapon in a surprising place; Fusion Gun in Guardians, Laser Lance in Warlocks, and so on.
    • Avenger Shuriken Catapult: Bargain basement. Take this if you're in an incredibly low-points game and for some reason are desperate to fill your HQ slot because you don't have a Farseer model. While not a bad weapon per-say, almost anything else is a more optimised choice.
    • Death-Spinner: Not a fan. Why take s6 AP-, when the s8 AP1 Fusion Gun will do exactly the same job, more reliably, and also against more heavily armoured opponents? Speaking of which......
    • Fusion Gun: Give this to an Autarch with either 'Wings or a Jump Generator, and he becomes a very useful problem solver. Just remember to give him a bodyguard, otherwise he will instead become a priority target.
    • Lasblaster: No, thanks. It might be cheaper than an Avenger Catapult, but it's also not as good. No one is intimidated by s3 AP5, especially when it sarcastically leaves you in range for s4 AP5 Boltguns to retaliate.
    • Reaper Launcher: Highly recommended if you're on a Jetbike. Never to be used on foot - the Autarch can do far, far more interesting things than babysit a squad of Dark Reapers.


    The Avatar of Khaine
    "TAK" to his friends, the Avatar is - of all the units in the Codex - one of the most debated. On the one hand, he's a Monstrous Creature who is outright immune to two varieties of weapon (unique throughout the rest of the game, almost) and is something of a close combat powerhouse. On the other, he's an otherwise fairly vanilla Monstrous Creature and as such comes with most of the usual drawbacks, and he doesn't really offer very much in the way of synergy to the rest of your army.
    On the plus side, he has no wargear options at all, so if you're lazy you can just throw him in as-is and just forget about it.
    • Daemon: Note the wording of the rule; the Avatar is "affected by weapons and abilities that affect Daemons", so that means he is easy prey for Grey Knight armies. Similarly it doesn't say that he GAINS the abilities usually associated with Daemons, and as such is not an Eternal Warrior. Which, despite T6 and 4++, sucks thanks to the abundance of Force Weapons out there nowadays.
    • Inspiring: Fearless isn't so great. That TAK can't ride in a transport, Deep Strike or Infiltrate - like nearly all other Assault orientated Eldar units can - means that all this usually does is stop the occasional unit of Guardians from running away, and is mostly several turns away from being used by someone that really needs it in a tricky Assault.
    • Molten Body: Thanks to the errata, this rule applies to pretty much anything with the "Melta" rule or that has the word "Flame" or "Fire" in it's name or description. Which is pretty cool. It does not, however, do anything against Krak Missiles or Lascannons, which are far more likely to be pointed at such a big target that has no choice but to just footslog forward and suck it up.

    "High explosives and anti-tank weaponry? Curse you, meddling kids - my only weaknesses!"
    ~ TAK (Attributed)
    All in all..... In close combat he will break almost anything and then go looking for more. The hard part is getting him there in one piece, and if you're drawn in a Tournament against Grey Knights, Imperial Guard or almost any Space Wolf player with half a brain then you may well just give him up for dead. Use him at your own risk, preferably in a casual environment.

    HQ Diagnosis: Two Farseers with Runes of Warding and sharing Doom, Guide and Fortune between them - plus Mind War if you're feeling sassy – will solve an impressively large number of problems regardless of what else you take. Take an Autarch if you really, really want to Deep Strike lots of stuff, but fully expect him to get one-shot'ed soon after arriving.


    Elite
    Spoiler
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    Striking Scorpions
    Compare these guys primarily with Howling Banshees; +1 better save, +1 attack each, resolved at +1 strength, but lacking any sort of save removal and a little slower to strike. Generally speaking, Howling Banshees are the better choice if they have a Doom-Farseer tagging along, whereas Striking Scorpions are a little more reliable if they're on their own or you're more concerned with killing hordes of 'Nids than squads of Marines.
    • Exarch: +12 points for a bunch of stat-line improvements, and all in the right places; Weaponskill, Attacks and Leadership. Even if you don't take any of his upgrades, it's still a solid buy if you can't quite squeeze enough free points for a whole new body.
    • Scorpion's Claw: A strength 6 Power Fist? Really? You're wasting your I6 and you're not causing Instant Death on anything that couldn't already be downed with lots of s4. MAYBE take it if you're desperate to glance light vehicles to death, but quite frankly that's a terrible way to be using Scorpions.
    • Biting Blade: With WS6 an Exarch has a reasonable chance of hitting with all four attacks (on the charge), which translates as a s8 hit. This is what you should be taking if you're worried about opening up a Rhino in order to get at the gooey insides, and it never hurts (figuratively speaking) if you run into a Something Of Nurgle that needs slapping hard.
    • Chainsabres: A good motto for 40k is; “If in doubt, take lots”. Even guys in Terminator Armour will go down if you throw enough s4 attacks at them, and 5pts is cheap enough if you don't want to take anything else.
    • Stalker: It's cheap, and if you're footslogging you will want to be sticking to cover as much as possible. Similarly, it works nicely with Shadowstrike for getting into combat safely, and quickly. Take both, or a Wave Serpent, but not one or the other.
    • Shadowstrike: As above, it stacks nicely with Stalker. If you think you can use it to get into Assault in the second turn (or faster) then more power to you, but if you're regularly taking longer or are fighting Mech opponents then you will instead be grateful for a Wave Serpent to break the box and keep your guys safe in the meantime. The other downside is, you can't take an Autarch or Farseer with you, and an isolated Eldar unit will very quickly become a dead one.
    • Again, Doom helps offset the fact that Scorpions allow their opponents a Saving Throw, but if you do that you'll have to make them walk or hitch a ride. And since you're probably going to want a large unit of Scorpions then it's going to start becoming a very expensive basket. Of Fabergé eggs.
      An Autarch also has a small role in the unit, with a Fusion Gun. They all jump out of a Serpent in cover, then next turn he finds somewhere safe to leave the unit and also to Melta a nearby vehicle, giving the Scorpions something to Assault. It's a very risky tactic, as it leaves your Autarch exposed, but it's also an unexpected one. Either keep him very cheap and hide him, or feel free to give him a Jump Generator so as to make good his escape and continue to harass other nearby vehicles for the Scorpions in subsequent turns. It's not a highly recommended idea, but it is a plausible one.


    Howling Banshees
    Lots of s3 Power Weapons striking at Initiative “Lots”. While they would never admit it outright, Space Marine players are scared rigid by these guys girls. Offset s3 with Doom and turn that fear into pure, abject terror.
    • Exarch: Same applies as to Scorpions. Exarchs improve the unit's close combat ability and Banshees are a close combat unit. Always take one if you can't fit in any more bodies.
    • Executioner: The Eldar equivalent to a Relic Blade. While s5 isn't much to write home about, it's better than nothing – especially if you can't keep a Farseer nearby and need to take down something threatening.
    • Mirrorswords: Again, More Is More. Costs the same as an Executioner, so the choice between the two is rather trivial. Generally I prefer the Executioner – it's better to have 2 “very probable” kills than 4 “sometimes possible” ones,, but if your metagame is lousy with IG Troopers or Termagaunts I can forgive you for choosing otherwise.
    • Triskele: Surprisingly underrated, I find, but still not brilliant. Yes, s3 sucks, but you're Eldar so you better get used to it, and there's a lot to be said for inflicting a casualty or two before the charge. Even so.... I still prefer the Executioner. You're still going to go first and inflict casualties before you get struck back, you might as well be s5 and thus reliable.
    • War Shout: Cheap, and hitting lots helps offset not wounding much. Even if it only works once, it's done it's job.
    • Acrobatic: As above – it's cheap, you're going first, and it's reliable. Always take it, if only as a deterrent (although it takes a special kind of 'brave' to Assault Banshees anyway....)
      Howling Banshee Exarchs are one of the few that I always recommend tooling up fully. It's cheap to do and always useful.
    • Banshees don't have a way of moving quickly, like Striking Scorpions, to I'd strongly recommend springing for a Wave Serpent to get them around. Banshees also love having a Farseer around,; not so much, an Autarch. You can use the same tactic that you would for the Scorpions if you like, but it's no more a good idea here than it was before. In Assault, he doesn't really add anything that you wouldn't already have from another Banshee, a couple of attacks aside for almost 4 times the cost.


    Harlequins
    An Ur-example of 'you get what you pay for'. Harlequins have lots that Banshees and Scorpions don't - +1 WS, +1I, +1A, and Invulnerable Save – and they're only a tiny fraction more expensive. The big hit comes from their upgrades, all of which can be worthwhile but you end up paying far too much for something comparatively unreliable.
    • Troupe Master: That's an awful lot of points for +1A and +1Ld. Just take another body, it ultimately serves the same purpose and more.
    • Shadow Seer: A worthwhile upgrade because he gives the entire squad Plasma (read: Defensive and Offensive) Grenades, which is fun. His 'Veil of Shadows' ability is especially helpful if your Harlequins are footslogging, although as with the other Close Combat Elites you're better off taking a transport if you can afford it. Still, if anyone can walk across the board, Harlequins can do it.
    • Death Jester: Honestly, I don't get it. He loses his close combat abilities in exchange for a Pinning Shuriken Cannon, but if you need them to have a big gun you can put two of them on the Wave Serpent and keep your points for other upgrades.
    • Fusion Pistol: It's worth having one in the squad on the off chance that you end up stuck behind a tank or even a Dreadnought. Hit And Run out of harm's way (if necessary), Melta it and then charge who you please. Don't go overboard though – one pistol for every 5 Harlequins is plenty.
    • Harlequin's Kiss: In lieu of Power Weapons, Harlequins can get Rending at +4pts a piece. This is a very expensive investment; although Harlies have more attacks than Banshees, you will need a) lots of bodies and b) lots of upgrades before you can see the effect in play. Is it worth the cost? Check your metagame and see if what you want to do, can't be done cheaper and just as well by Banshees. Having said that, if you're willing to pay the bill in full, Harlequins are generally the more rounded choice to take over either Banshees or Scorpions if you don't know what to expect.
    • Again, Doom helps out with the Rending issue (did you know that you can re-roll a successful To Wound hit, if you really need that Rend? Well, you can!) and Fortune is often well spent on something with an Invulnerable Save. Harlies don't really need a Farseer though. As for an Autarch.... Again, he doesn't add much. The Avatar, however, likes Harlequins a lot. Veil of Shadows means that your opponent can't shoot at the Harlequins, but they still block Line Of Sight to the Avatar which gives him a much needed Cover Save. On top of that, he makes them Fearless but they can still Hit & Run at will, meaning that they should never lose an Assault except by being wiped out to the last man – which shouldn't happen because they can run away.


    Wraithguard
    Famous (possibly even notorious) for 3 things; Being able to one-shot Land Raiders and even old-style Monoliths with ease, being ridiculously expensive to buy as well as field, and being harder to kill than Terminators.
    The ideal “Elite” version of Wraithguard (as opposed to the “Troop” setup which I'll talk about later) is 5 Wraithguard with a Warlock, and a Wave Serpent. Disembark deep in your enemy's territory and survive a frightening amount of stuff while killing whatever you shoot at. ANYTHING. Just be wary of getting tarpitted by something cheap and expendable – WS4 s5 is okay, and T6 with 3+ and Fearless will ensure that you will probably survive until the bitter end, but it'll take more time than you can afford to do so.
    • Warlock: Prevents Wraithsight from spoiling your day, and gives you access to either Destructor (useful if Cover Saves are annoying you) or Conceal, which makes Wraithguard extra-unkillable. Don't give him a Singing Spear – what little close combat ability he offers with 2 attacks is invaluable – and there's usually no need for Spirit Seer; Warlocks aren't independent Characters, so he isn't going anywhere.
    • Another particularly evil tactic is to forego the Warlock and instead have them led by a Farseer. He gets a nigh-indestructible bodyguard from where he can Doom and Mind War with impunity, and they get a Psyker within 6” and are permanently Enhance'd. Which is awesome.
    • Alternatively, the Autarch finds a place within Wraithguard as an anti-tarpit measure. If your unit is Fearless, and you're slicing up your enemy with a Power Weapon, only one side is going to run away. In doing this, though, you lose the Psyker – the big question is, how do you feel about a 1-in-6 chance of giving in to Wraithsight every turn?


    Fire Dragons
    The cheaper, more squishy alternative to Wraithguard. They favour the exact same sort of targets, though you can squeeze more Dragons into a Transport in order to offset the lower toughness and saving throw.
    • Exarch: Extra Weaponskill, Attacks and Initiative – everything that a squad of Fire Dragons really don't need. Polar opposite to Howling Banshees, Fire Dragons can get along just fine without an Exarch.
    • Dragonsbreath Flamer: Always worth taking. If you can't kill something with 9 Meltaguns, you're not going to be able to kill it with 10 either. Instead, the Flamer opens up new avenues and allows you to more effectively target different targets. Also, free.
    • Firepike: A Meltagun with an 18” range, but still only Meltas within 6”. Fire Dragons should either be shooting from within melta range or be completely out of Line Of Sight, not taking one random potshot.
    • Tank Hunters: Vaguely useful, but you've got at least 5 guys with Meltaguns and you should already be using that +d6. Another +1 here or there is of minimal use, and 15 points is too much to pay for 'minimal'.
    • Crack Shot: Kind of good if you've taken the Flamer (and you probably should have) even if you're only getting half the benefit, and not at all useful with a Fusion Gun. Again, if you can't kill something with 10 Meltaguns, you're probably not going to do it with 10 “and-a-half”.
    • Fortune is nice when you have a 3+ save, though you'll probably get better use out of Guide than Doom. Honestly though, Fire Dragons are killy enough to get away with the cheaper, single-power option. And as with Wraithguard, the Autarch is their Assault-based backup. Even so, I would recommend against that: The strength of Wraithguard is that they will not die nor run away while the Autarch does his thing, but the Fire Dragons do not have that advantage. If they get Assaulted they will probably die – don't sacrifice your Autarch to the same fate.


    Elite Diagnosis: A larger squad of Fire Dragons are better than a small squad of Wraithguard in nearly every circumstance. You will find a need for a squad of Scorpions and a squad of Banshees, or two squads of tooled-up Harlequins; other combinations will leave you with glaring gaps in your line-up.
    Last edited by Wraith; 2012-05-13 at 12:10 PM.
    ~ CAUTION: May Contain Weasels ~
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  2. - Top - End - #782
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Griffon

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
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    Gender
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XV: "More People Should Be Punched In The Head."

    Troops and Fast.

    Troops
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    Guardians
    So this is it. The hard-working, objective-taking, quadrant-denying, unspoken heroes of the Eldar army. Gods have mercy on us all.
    They are very cheap, which is probably the biggest compliment that I can give them. For the same price as 5 Space Marines, you get 10 guys who have tissue-thin armour, guns that automatically puts them within Assault range of their enemy, and to top it off their main strength is the ability to take a Wave Serpent as Transport. Even that gets unceremoniously kicked in the teeth when you realise that you need a BIG blob of Guardians to give them the fire-power needed to kill their enemy and survive the subsequent charge, and once you do that you won't be able to fit them all into the Grav-Tank. Either take a lot of these guys and make them squat on your objectives, or put a few of them in a Tank and make them try to squat on your opponents', but whatever happens don't expect them to get more than one turn of shooting before they get torn apart.
    • Warlock: Turning a 5+ Armour Save into a 5+ Cover Save with Conceal is usually the biggest and cleverest thing you can do with a Warlock in a Guardian Squad. That way they stay alive a little bit longer, and the Warlock acts as a focal point for any nearby Wraithlord, who should be using the Guardians for a Cover Save of his own. With a big enough blob you won't need Embolden, and though Enhance might help you didn't ought to be relying on s3 Guardians to be winning Assaults for you. Feel free to give him a Singing Spear though – they have the same range limit as Shuriken Catapults, so there's an outside chance that he might even get to use it.
    • Missile Launcher: Since you must take a Heavy weapon with the squad, the Missile Launcher should be your default choice. It's cheap and it's multi-purpose, and as with it's equivalents in other armies you can't go wrong with it.
    • Bright Lance: Very expensive, by Eldar measure, and Guardians are only BS3. While it's your main source of the Lance effect, there are better ways to bust tanks to be found among the experts in your army, rather than entrusting it to these amateurs.
    • Starcannon: Not sure how I feel about this one. It scares Terminators, but is neither strong enough to bother tanks nor fires enough shots to be of serious concern to larger squads. If you're working to a theme and equip your army with lots of Starcannons then you might do well, but one or two dispersed among every other squad will not be as effective as Missile Launchers in the same place.
    • Shuriken Cannon: Again, not strong enough to bother most vehicles, and the AP means it won't worry most Troops. Instead, upgrade and take.....
    • Scatter Laser: Similar problems to the Shuriken Cannon, however it fires more shots. This will make up for the Guardians' poor shooting ability, and the more Saves you force on your opponent then the more they will inevitably (eventually?) fail. Take this or a Missile Launcher, and both in large numbers.
    • Generally, your HQ Choices can do bigger and more impressive things than actually join a Guardian unit, but there's a lot to be said for Guide on 38 s4 Catapult shots and Doom on their target – even Greater Daemons worry about that sort of thing. Alternatively, if you want to Go To Ground on your objective then Fortune-ing a 20-wound unit can be fun. An Autarch with Guardians? Again, if you're stuck in a tiny sized points game and you need SOMETHING as your HQ, but really? To them, he's just a Ld10 figurehead; to someone else, he can be much more.


    Storm Guardians:
    Ordinary Guardians, but with Blade+Pistol rather than short-ranged Catapult. While they suffer the usual problems of Guardians – weak strength and crappy armour – they make up for the fact that, when they get Assaulted, they can at least fight back with the weight of numbers that are needed to give them half a chance at success. Perhaps surprisingly, despite never having seen them on the table, I think that these guys are a better choice than Vanilla Guardians.
    • Warlock: Jump out of a Wave Serpent, Enhance your guys to I5, and have at it with as many attacks as you can muster. Again, a Singing Spear won't hurt but the important thing is not to even think about the other Psychic Powers; if you're serious about footslogging the unit then you should always be doing better than a 5+ Cover Save from Conceal, you should be in big enough numbers not to need Embolden (plus, Warlocks are Ld9) and one shot with Destructor just won't compare.
    • Fusion Gun: Storm Guardians differ from Vanilla Guardians in that they can take two 'special' weapons rather than one Heavy, which is actually really useful. Especially in smaller games, when Fire Dragons are a pricey investment, Storm Guardians can just about take their place for the purposes of jumping out of a Transport, breaking open an enemy Tank and then making a good attempt at either Assaulting (or being Assaulted by) whatever is left.
    • Flamer: One of few ways for Eldar to bust cover, I'd say that there are generally preferable to Fusion Guns. The Wave Serpent that the Storm Guardians are riding in can use its own weapons in place of the Fusion Guns, then the Guardians move in for the kill in both the Shooting and Assault phases.
    • Independent Characters in mind, the same applies to Storm Guardians when it comes to Farseers. Ideally you don't want him to risk his own neck by joining the unit, but sheer weight of numbers only gets better with rerolls. An Autarch can actually be quite helpful for these guys – on the one hand, he can be their 3rd Fusion Gun (if he could take a Flamer he'd be perfect, but alas...) and on the other, he throws out more attacks at even higher Initiative, meaning that less of them are going to go down when it time to face the music – exactly what the T3, 5+ doctor ordered.


    Guardian Jetbikes:
    Arguably one of the most iconic of Eldar units – pointy-eared Hells Angels IN SPACE. Despite their comparatively expensive cost, Jetbikes are best taken in large units. At least 6 should be your thinking – not just because they're big targets and still quite fragile (T4 is only good by Eldar standards, after all – more than half of the other races out there consider it just average) but because they're still just armed with Shuriken Catapults. If you don't kill your target outright, they're going to turn around and slap you VERY hard in response.
    • Shuriken Cannon: Usually a good idea, for the same reason that I said above – more shots means more dead enemies, and at the range the rest of the squad needs to be effective you can't afford to let anything of significance shoot back. If you have a lot of support from other units, all concentrating their fire on one target, you can probably forgo this upgrade without worry.
    • Warlock: As always, Conceal can help out. Jetbikes, however, enjoy a 3+ save and are fast enough to get out of harm's way, so I wouldn't say that it's as important in this case. Singing Spear? I'd rather have another Shuriken Cannon for the same price, rather than waste the whole unit's Shooting Phase so that one guy can have a 50/50 shot at a tank. Overall, probably best not to bother. Take more Jetbikes instead.


    Dire Avengers:
    What a Guardian wants to be when it grows up. They're better shots, their armour is tougher, and their weapons' range doesn't always let them get punched in the face. To be honest, if you want to take Guardians in your army then the only sensible reason as to why you wouldn't take Dire Avengers instead would be if you're desperate to have a Warlock around in order to keep Wraith-creatures under control. Dire Avengers are just, in every other way, better. And for a respectfully small mark-up in price.
    • Exarch: On the surface, not a great investment – like Fire Dragons, Dire Avengers seem to be all about their guns so a WS and Attacks upgrade is of little use. In practice however, it stacks with some of his other abilities to make him into a close combat character of not terrible ability IF you want to take him that way. Decide beforehand how aggressive you want the squad to be – if you need them to be VERY aggressive, perhaps if you're struggling to find room for a dedicated close combat unit like Scorpions, tool them up and go for it.
    • Diresword & Pistol: Essentially an inverse Force Weapon (your opponent rolls their Leadership, rather than you rolling yours) without the hassle of requiring a Psychic Test and thus all the threats that entails – Magic Hats be damned. Also note the wording: Direswords don't cause Instant Death, they just die automatically. This is not corrected in the errata. Make of that what you will, and then remember that with this upgrade the Exarch is I6 with A3. This is THE choice for the Close Combat Exarch, although it does turn the unit into a 10-wound Exarch-delivery-system. If you can live with that, then more power to you.
    • Power Weapon & Shimmershield: Again with the s3 Power Weapon – why not, for less price, take one that might kill your opponent outright? The 5+ Invulnerable Save in close combat for the whole squad is tempting, but really Dire Avengers should treat Assault as the killing blow after lots of shooting – if there's anything left to strike back at you, you've done it wrong!
    • Defend: Expensive, and as above in many ways. If there's a lot of enemy left to attack you in your turn, you've made a bad move. If you've been Assaulted by any enemy with even the smallest modicum of close combat ability, chances are that they're still going to take apart your T3 A1 unit regardless.
    • 'Exarch' Avenger Catapult: Some people don't feel comfortable using Dire Avengers in Assault, which is fair – while they can manage it, they clearly shine while shooting. For a very small cost, the Exarch doubles his output – however, it's most efficient when you already have 10 models in the squad, as otherwise it's cheaper just to take 1 more Avenger than an Exarch+Extra Weapon.
    • Bladestorm: Everyone in the unit becomes Assault 3, in exchange for losing the ability to shoot next turn. Quite useful; use it then jump into a Wave Serpent and go looking for a new target so it really doesn't matter much. Sadly, it only applies to SHURIKEN weapons, so you don't get the chance to have Fusion Gun shenanigans when adding an Autarch to the squad.
    • Regarding what friends they should bring along, everything that applies to Guardians, applies to Dire Avengers. But more so. Not only are Guide and Doom brilliant with Bladestorm, but Dire Avenger squad sizes are conveniently perfect to fit them and the Farseer into a Wave Serpent as well. Autarchs don't do so well, though of all the things that a Dire Avenger Squad might need, either some backup in Close Combat or a Fusion Gun are probably them.


    Rangers:
    Eldar were doing squads of Snipers before it was cool. Although you get a lot for you money, it's also a lot of money for what you get. I wouldn't recommend making a habit of large Squads of them, when for the same price you can have 8 Dire Avengers and a Wave Serpent, but it's always funny to Infiltrate onto an opponent's objective and then sit there with a nice, cozy 2+ Cover Save.
    • Pathfinders: I always want to take Pathfinders instead of Rangers, but the price (almost double that of a single Space Marine Scout!) makes me want to cry. Still..... Remember how I said earlier that you are allowed to re-roll SUCCESSFUL To Hit dice if you want to, with a Guide-Farseer? Even if you don't get the 5+ you need on the second roll, you're still hitting normally on 2+. Why wouldn't you do it? Also probably the only place to put a footslogging Autarch with Reaper Launcher – you shouldn't really do that, but if you really must, he will get to do lots of fun shooting and the Pathfinders will appreciate having a guy with a Power Sword hanging around when your opponent finally works out that Assaulting will get around that Cover Save.


    Wraithguard:
    Ten Wraithguard and a Warlock turns your clunky Elite unit into a clunky, sluggish Troops choice. So a minimum cost of 375 points for something that you can't fit into a Transport, isn't Fleet of Foot and has only a 12” range? Once upon a time that was a really good idea, before everyone else jumped onto the Sniper/Poisoned Weapon bandwagon, but now.... This is the sort of unit you take out of audacity, and just dare your opponent to try and kill it. Hopefully they'll be outraged enough to try, and thus leave the rest of your army completely unmolested and free to do other things. Don't laugh, this works – if truth be told, I've even done it myself out of sheer hubris.
    Having said that, no other unit in the game can squat on an objective and just plain refuse to move like these guys. If you want to guarantee at least one point in every game you play, 395pts (including Conceal) is the price. Alternatively, spread them out somewhere that they can't help but get Tank-Shocked and hope for the best – to Wraithguard, a 250pt Land Raider looks no different to a 40pt Rhino. Basically, Troop-Wraithguard are there for area denial, not for aggression.

    Troops Diagnosis:
    Everything Guardians can do, Dire Avengers can do better. Apart from ride Jetbikes. But you don't need Jetbikes if it means that you can take more Dire Avengers. Genuinely take Pathfinders instead of mere Scouts as often as possible, even if it means a smaller squad to do it. And whatever else happens, your Farseers should NEVER be too far away from your Troops – your success on the battlefield will correlate directly with how well your Psychic Powers interact with your Troops.


    Transport
    Spoiler
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    Wave Serpent: Eldar only have two Transport choices: “Take it” or “Leave it”. Without a doubt, they got seriously lucky that the Take It option gives them something as good as a Wave Serpent. The only possible complaint one could make is that it has no Fire Points, so your Farseer has to actually get out and do stuff every now and then, rather than Mind War people through the back window. Oh, well.
    • Energy Field: One of the few things in the Codex that actually got better with the new editions. Since vehicles can pivot on the spot for 'free' (previously, it came out of their movement allowance for the turn), you should never not get to use this. And it's there for free? AV12 and (usually) a Cover Save really isn't so bad all of a sudden.
    • Star Engines: If you're using the Serpent to Transport a squad to somewhere important, use these and do it in the first turn. If you do, there's no need for Spirit Stones – your guys are now where they need to be, and the Tank itself acting to block LoS and fire it's Heavy weapon is just a bonus. If you're actually using the tank offensively though, don't bother. You'll never use them.
    • Spirit Stones: Definitely has it's uses, especially if it's imperative that you get to where you need to be, but it's also quite expensive. Personally, I would work harder on learning how to make sure I always get a Cover Save or block LoS – that will prevent Stunned and Shaken results even more efficiently, and is generally just a good skill to learn for any army.
    • Vectored Engines: Worth taking in conjunction with Star Engines. Then again, there are a lot of things that are worth taking on a Wave Serpent, and it very quickly starts to get very silly. Of all the upgrades, this one is probably the least necessary between your Fast/Cover Save and the Energy Field all actively preventing you from going down in the first place.
    • Twin-Linked Weapons: Pretty much everything I said for Guardians, still applies. The only exception that I would add is that twin-linked Bright Lances are very reliable for breaking open an enemy transport. That way, the Eldar squad which has just disembarked can Shoot and Assault the enemy unit, rather than take a step in between to break the vehicle themselves. Pricey, but usually worth it.


    Fast
    Spoiler
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    Swooping Hawks
    Unfortunately, there just isn't any way around it; Swooping Hawks are a poor unit. Their stats are average (for an Eldar – s3 and T3 again), their guns are terrible and their armour is, at best, mediocre. Sadly, 4th and 5th Edition removed what little teeth these guys ever once had.
    • Exarch: The only reason you'd take this guy, is so that you could also take the Intercept ability and couple it with the squad's innate Haywire Grenades – and even then you ALWAYS have better ways to kill tanks than glancing them to pieces. Otherwise, his improved stats are in all the wrong places and even his weapon upgrades are pretty woeful.
    • Hawk's Talon: s5 and Assault 3 is an improvement over his normal s3 Assault 2 gun, but only just. Still having AP5 means that in the vast majority of cases, he still isn't hurting anything that he couldn't already hurt.
    • Power Weapon: Oh God, no. Even if you can Skyleap out of trouble, you don't want these guys anywhere near a melee, if you can possibly help it. Certainly don't spend more points just to watch them lose again.
    • Sunrifle: If you really have to upgrade the Exarch's gun, go for this one. Assault 6 with BS5 makes up for quite a lot, but honestly? Just take more Hawks in the first place.
    • Skyleap: A really interesting ability; during your movement phase, even if you're locked in Assault, you can elect to remove the entire Squad from the table and place them back into Reserves, so that next turn you can roll to Deep Strike the unit again. In doing so, you can drop a s4 AP5 Large Blast weapon with infinite range anywhere on the table, and it only scatters d6”. The problem is, it's STILL AP5 – you're not going to kill anything that couldn't already be killed by a Squad of Storm Guardians, and they at least can claim an objective if they have the chance. Is it worth taking several minimum sized squads of Swooping Hawks and having them Deep Strike every other turn in order to drop their Grenades? If they could also be made into a Scoring Unit, then this would be awesome if only because you would spend half the game completely immune to enemy fire. As it stands, not at all.
    • Intercept: Always hit Vehicles on 4+ or better. The synergy with Haywire Grenades is obvious, and 'Jump Packs' are a good way to make sure you get some use out of them. Again, I'd argue against taking an Exarch in the first place, but if you took one then I'd recommend that you take either Skyleap or Intercept and pick your targets accordingly – not both.
    • Swooping Hawks with Skyleap love Autarchs with Master Strategist. Specifically because the ability stacks if you have more than one Autarch, so you will always be Skyleaping into play on a 2+. I'd strongly question the sensibility of taking two Autarchs in one army, mind; a Farseer will be far more useful to your entire army, rather than slightly helpful to one unit.


    Warp Spiders
    I like Warp Spiders a lot more than I do Swooping Hawks. Though they share the same common weaknesses – poor stats and lousy AP on their weapons – Spiders make up for it by being better armoured and having twice the strength in their weapons. Even their short 12” range isn't such a burden, when your Warp Jump Generator lets you run away from all but the fleetest of opponents.
    • Exarch: If you're feeling daring, you can get a surprising amount of mileage out of Deep Striking 10 Warp Spiders behind enemy lines, inundating the nearest unit with 20+ s6 shots and then using your guys as a delivery system for you A4, I6 Exarch. Let down as always by s3 (nothing that can't be cured by Doom, but remember you've probably Deep Struck over there because you can't reach the enemy with other weapons or powers!) but it's a deed that will always get a result of some sort.
    • Power Blades: See above. Like Dire Avengers, you either have to be VERY aggressive with Warp Spiders or VERY protective of them to get the better results. If you are a fan of the former, these are a good investment.
    • Spinneret Rifle: There are two trains of thought about Spinneret Rifles; one is that they are very useful, as having an AP1 weapon in a squad full of AP- means that you can suddenly make a decent attempt at breaking open an enemy Transport (especially since your mobility inevitably means that you can shoot at the rear). The second is that it's still only a single s6 shot, and all your other shots are mostly going to be wasted on a vehicle that is going to be glanced a lot but not destroyed if you miss or fail to penetrate. Personally I'd go for the Additional Death Spinner in order to stick to shooting Infantry, and if I had to I could still glance a Rhino into submission anyway.
    • Additional Death Spinner: Assault 2 becomes 4? That's pretty cool. Although I don't want to wear out a good catchphrase; More Is, again, More. There's not a lot of reason to go without this upgrade, especially if you're trying to squeeze in a few more shots and can't afford a full body.
    • Surprise Assault: An ability with literally no use to anyone, whatsoever, since the 5th Edition BBB states that all Jump Infantry can Deep Strike for free anyway.
    • Withdraw: The same as with Dire Avengers and Harlequins; if there's anything left for you to need to run away from, you have made a mistake. Although it does have a use in protecting a large (and thus, expensive) unit during your opponent's turn – if your unit is Assaulted, 3+ armour often gets you through the worst of it, and it's better to flee while wounded rather than be stuck around waiting to die later.
    • Hyper-aggressive Warp Spiders like having an Autarch around for easier Deep Striking and another half-dozen Power Weapon attacks. He's also available to do the same trick as for Striking Scorpions – arrive with a bodyguard, and then in the next turn separate in order to Fusion Gun a vehicle so that the Spiders can get shots at the juicy innards. From the Farseer, Spiders generally like Guide more than Doom, but you should be used to the fact by now that everyone in the Eldar army likes both is they can get it. Remember though – your Farseer shouldn't be getting as close to the enemy as the Warp Spiders do, so there's never an excuse for having him join the squad, thus holding them back and putting himself in mortal danger.


    Shining Spears
    A bona-fide rarity in Eldar; T4 and a 3+ save. Congratulations boys – you are 'average'! Seriously though, Shining Spears are an exceptionally dangerous unit, and both practically and thematically are my favourite of the Fast choices. Too bad they cost so much, mind; you won't see many of them in your lifetime, let alone in a single battle.
    • Exarch: Yep. Again, a close combat upgrade for a close combat squad. Always worthwhile for the extra attack, especially in such relatively small units.
    • Shuriken Cannon: I think not. You can't risk being caught in the open when you only have 5 models, and like Fire Dragons with a Fire Pike you should be either up close and doing lots of damage, or instead completely out of LoS; Are you really going to risk your entire squad for the sake of 3 rather mundane shots?
    • Power Weapon: Useful only if you expect to get charged a lot (Laser Lances are only Power weapons if *you* make the Assault), but between careful planning and Withdraw you shouldn't ever be Assaulted for long.
    • Star Lance: A good upgrade in every respect. 'Magic' s8 for killing a large variety of characters also makes Lance all the more worthwhile when you're stuck behind slow moving traffic, like Dreadnoughts. Trim it from your list only if you're desperate for points.
    • Skilled Rider: Just as it says in the BBB. Worthwhile, since you want to be behind cover most of the time, and you can't afford to lose even 1 guy before he gets to land his attacks to a fluky dice roll. Quite an easy decision to go without it, on the other hand, if you need to save points and you have your Lucky Dice with you.
    • Withdraw: Yes. Always. Never, ever leave home without it. Shining Spears MUST Assault rather than be Assaulted, and they must avoid protracted fights at all costs. 25pts might sound expensive, but compared to what it can save you, it's a bargain.
    • A cheap Farseer with Fortune and a Jetbike can be a nice helping hand for Shining Spears, although it's already a high value-high risk unit so be extra sure you want to make it even more costly. If you go down this route, you needn't worry about Doom or Guide – s6 takes care of a lot of problems, and you shouldn't make him yet more expensive. An Autarch on a Jetbike fills a role similar to an Exarch without the Withdraw power; lots more powerful attacks, but doesn't do anything to keep the unit alive apart from contribute one more T3 body. This is not 'great', but it is usually very amusing when it works.


    Vyper Squadron
    You say “Vyper”, I say “Glass cannons”. For all intents an purposes, Vypers are highly mobile weapons-platforms; their sole goal in life is to move quickly to an awkward angle from which to shoot at the enemy before someone sneezes at them and they explode into flames. In small games, taking one or to can be a (reasonably) cheap way of dealing with enemy Mech, but in larger games they tend just to be victims. When they work, they're good. When they don't work..... it must be Tuesday.
    • Heavy Weapon: Same old, same old. Decide beforehand what the unit is going to be shooting at, and then take Missile Launchers anyway.
    • Shuriken Cannon: I'd rather not. The aim of the unit is to move quickly and fire it's Heavy weapon a lot. Paying for a second Heavy Weapon that you're not going to use most of the time is extortionate.
    • Vectored Engines: If you're in a smaller game and are only taking a few Vypers, this can be very helpful to ensure that the important part of the model – the Heavy Weapon – stays in play for as long as possible. Having said that, you're Open-Topped so your opponent is virtually never going to get a mere Glancing Hit. Effectively this becomes a 20pt upgrade to protect you from just 1 of the 6 results of being shot at – not great value.
    • Star Engines: Nope. Vypers are there to fire their Heavy Weapon as often as they can until they inevitably fall over; if you can't already get out of the way with a 12” move, doing anything in lieu of shooting is almost always a bad idea too.
    • Holo-Fields: In an ideal world, every Eldar vehicle would take these and Spirit Stones together. Realistically, you could instead just pay for another Wave Serpent from somewhere and be better served in almost every way.
    • Spirit Stones: You're AV10 and Open-Topped, and so can be penetrated by mere Boltguns. While yet more expense, 'Stones can either be really useful for keeping your Vehicle alive or they can be useless because they still can't fire that all-important Heavy Weapon. My expert advice is to really, really like ramming other tanks with your Fast skimmer, when this happens!
    • If I've given you the impression that I don't like Vypers, be assured that is only because of personal preference. At the end of the day, they are Fast Skimmers who are equipped with tank-busting AND anti-infantry defensive weapons. Taken in sufficiently large numbers and used well, they will ruin the day of any enemy you pitch them against.


    Fast Diagnosis
    Honestly? None of them are great. You would need a seriously good reason to ever need Swooping Hawks, even compared to all the others. Having said that, I like Shining Spears a lot as they have potential to inflict huge amounts of damage, provided that they are properly micro-managed.
    ~ CAUTION: May Contain Weasels ~
    RPG Characters What I Done Played As (Explained Badly)
    17 Things I Learned About 40k By Playing Dark Heresy
    Tales of a Role-Play Gamer - Horrible Optimisation

  3. - Top - End - #783
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Griffon

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XV: "More People Should Be Punched In The Head."

    And finally, Heavy and Special Characters.

    Heavy
    Spoiler
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    War Walkers Squadron
    Generally speaking, War Walkers are better Vypers than Vypers. They have a similar role – to appear quickly and unload lots of Heavy Weapons into the back or side of something that really didn't want that to happen – But War Walkers are a) a lot cheaper and b) have better ways to avoid damage other than “hope your opponent misses a lot”, in that they are not Open-Topped and that they can Scout, which essentially means “they can't be shot at in your first turn”. Having said that, like Vypers in larger games, a single War Walker is an easy target; take a full unit, or none at all.
    • Heavy Weapons: Note that War Walkers take two Heavy Weapons; this is not the same as having one that is Twin-Linked. As always, Missile Launchers are fun, but War Walkers take Scatter Lasers somewhere new and terrifying with 8 s6 shots per turn.
    • Spirit Stones: Much cheaper here than anywhere else in the Codex, it's a worthwhile investment. War Walkers, if unable to fire, can at least hide out of the way or even make an Assault with two s5 attacks, so if you're desperate then they can still achieve something. Not ideal, but better than the alternative.


    Dark Reapers
    Dark Reapers are awesome, a strong contender for the coveted place of “Best” Heavy choice in a slot that already boasts several of the Eldar's finest units. Hide them in some fortified ruins and watch them eat up just about any Infantry that your opponent can throw at them. Just.... don't look at the price tag. Just take them, and try not to think about it too much.
    • Exarch: Don't take him for his stats, take him for his upgrades. They're worth it.
    • Shuriken Cannon: One more shot than a Reaper Launcher, but less reliable against the vast majority of targets. And to be honest, the alternatives are so much better that it's generally not even worth considering.
    • Eldar Missile Launcher: The obvious thing to do is to pair this with Fast Shot. The problem is, the Tempest Launcher (also with Fast Shot) is better at taking out large groups of infantry, whereas aiming at vehicles wastes the power of the rest of your squad. It's the default 'toolbox' choice for unexpected opponents, but if you already have a dedicated anti-Tank unit like Fire Dragons, instead go with.....
    • Tempest Launcher: Space Marines hate this weapon, which is reason enough to take it and laugh maniacally while doing so. Using Crack Shot to leave them nowhere to hide should be mandatory, although Fast Shot can also be fun if you want to kill lots of weak stuff, rather than a smaller number of tougher ones.
    • Fast Shot: Fast Shot is almost mandatory, when you have the Missile Launcher. Your role is to blow up tanks, who find it much harder to find a Cover Save than Infantry so you're better off taking more opportunities to Penetrate than to hit.
    • Crack Shot: Alternatively, this is mandatory with the Tempest Launcher or (to a lesser extent) with Plasma Missiles, as it means that your Farseer can use his Doom elsewhere this turn and that all but the most heavily armoured of opponents probably won't get a save at all.


    Wraithlord
    We all know who this guy is – for nearly 10 years, the Wraithlord was considered one of the toughest and most unexplained-ly strongest creatures in the game, right up until the advent of Imperial Guard's massed Lascannons and Dark Eldar's legion of Strength X weapons. Let me repeat that: It took two whole Codices spread over two whole Editions to bring the raw, untamed power of the Wraithlord into line. They have been well and truly leashed nowadays, but that still doesn't stop them from the occasional rampage under the right circumstances.
    • Shuriken Catapults vs. Flamers: As a Monstrous Creature, a Wraithlord will generally find itself in Close Combat sooner or later, and so you're getting a free (twin-linked) weapon to soften up any potential tarpits that are there to slow him down. Under those circumstances, I always opt away for Flamers. At the sort of range that either weapon will get used, they will hit more enemies and will ignore cover saves to boot, something which Eldar seem to have trouble with.
    • Wraithblade: Probably my favourite upgrade. Wraithlord have only 2 attacks and WS4, so 50% of the time your s10 monster is swinging at air. It's so cheap that you could happily field a Wraithlord armed with just a 'Blade and nothing else; In smaller games (750 or less) this will horrify just about any opponent who has not specifically prepared to deal with it.
    • Heavy Weapon: You're Monstrous and you are cheap by most races' standards even after you have paid for a big gun (Wraithlord+Starcannon is the same cost as a Vanilla Space Marine Dreadnought with no upgrades or weapons, FYI). A Scatter Laser improves on what you're trying to do with your Flamers, as does a Missile Launcher, but I rarely expect to need something as 'powerful' as a Bright Lance when it's even more reliable just to punch the tank to death.
    • Twin Linked Heavy Weapon: This, on the other hand, does start to make your Wraithlord lean towards the expensive side for relatively little gain. Rerolling a To Hit die with BS4 isn't entirely necessary, and it makes Close Combat – the stage upon which a Wraithlord can shine – more tedious than it needs to be since you have forgone a Wraithblade. If you want something on legs with big guns, then for the same price you can just about squeeze in two War Walkers, who will have twice as many shots, and I think that's a much better choice.
    • Although a Monstrous Creature can't be joined by an Independent Character, pay special attention to Wraithsight. There's a 1 in 6 chance every turn that you effectively lose your Wraithlord, and Murphy's First and Second Laws are the only reliable statistics in 40k. Keep him close to a Warlock who is in a squad of his own – it'll stop your Wraithlord from even risking failure, and it'll provide him with a handy Cover Save too. After all, even T8 3+ will only protect you from so much.


    Fire Prism Grav-Tank
    In many ways similar to the Wave Serpent, except that it trades a carrying capacity for a really, REALLY big, multipurpose gun. It's also cheaper than it's near rival, the Falcon Grav Tank, and has a better BS. Honestly, between the two there are few reasons not to take the Fire Prism.
    • Shuriken Cannon: If you need to move your Fire Prism, you'll then need to fire the Prism Cannon rather than anything else. I'm not a big fan of Shuriken Cannons in general, less so in comparison to a Prism Cannon. Better to keep the Shuriken Catapults and fire them as Defensive Weapons, if you ever need to fire them at all.
    • Vectored Engines: If you need to move above combat speed, you've done something horribly wrong with your setup. Or your enemy has somehow managed to get the drop on you in ways that simply running away probably won't help either.
    • Star Engines: I will reiterate; if your main purpose is to carry a really, really big gun, you should be using it every turn. Fire Prisms don't even have the excuse that Falcons and Wave Serpents do of needing to Transport another unit, so you shouldn't need to go anywhere in that much of a hurry.
    • Holo-Fields: Take these, and you'll be *almost* the same price as a Falcon that hasn't taken them. I hope that it should be obvious by now which is the better choice.
    • Spirit Stones: As always; your main goal is to shoot your Heavy weapon, and if your opponent rolls a 1 or a 2 for damage then Spirit Stones still aren't going to let you fire regardless. Don't bother.
    • A quick note on Prism Cannons: Multiple cannons can contribute to each others' power, which is really cool. Although the Contributor sacrifices their chance to fire their own gun, they give the Recipient +1 Strength and +1AP for their shot, up to a maximum of (s10 AP1 Heavy 1 – requires 1 contributor), or (s7 AP2 Heavy 1, Large Blast – requires 2 contributors) The first is useful for making holes in big tanks, the second eats entire squads of Terminators. For this reason, I'd always advise taking at least 2 Fire Prisms, if you're going to take any. They're really good on their own, and together they're excellent.


    Falcon Grav-Tank
    I'll say this right away: I am not a fan of the Falcon. It is, for nearly all purposes, an expensive Wave Serpent with less carrying capacity, and one big + one extra-big gun rather than a twin-linked turret. It can be used in the same way as either a Wave Serpent or as a Fire Prism (that is, mobile heavy support) but, strictly speaking, is the bastard middle-child between the two. The best role for a Falcon is if you need to carry a small squad, like Fire Dragons, to their destination and then don't expect to pick them up again. Which you can also do, slightly cheaper, with a Wave Serpent anyway.
    • Heavy Weapon: The Pulse Laser (s8 AP2 Heavy2) is tempting, but against tough vehicles it's not as effective as a simple Bright Lance, and like the Starcannon it doesn't have enough shots to make a mess of mid-to-large Infantry units. Pulse Laser + Bright Lance or Scatter Laser (or Starcannon, if you want to really go overboard) will fix those problems, respectively, but remember it's crewed by BS3 Guardians and as such you're spending a lot of points on a bunch of 50-50 rolls. Did I already mention that Fire Prisms are BS4 and cheaper?
    • Shuriken Cannon: Might be worthwhile if you go down the route of using the Falcon as an extra-big Heavy Weapon Platform and you have a lot of Infantry to fight (if you take another Shuriken Cannon for the turret, like War Walkers you have two guns rather than one twin-linked one), but all in all I'm not in favour of such a big, expensive target sitting still for long enough to fire all 3 weapons. Instead, move somewhere safe, fire your turret, and repeat.
    • Vectored Engines: Since you're festooned with Heavy Weapons, being immobilised isn't all that bad for a Falcon, and AV12 is better than the average Eldar. Still, I'd rather spend points on Holo-Fields to make sure that the tank isn't damaged, rather than let it get damaged and try to limit the repercussions after the fact.
    • Star Engines: They fit with the previously described tactic – drop off a unit of Fire Dragons or perhaps a Warlock Bodyguard deep in enemy lines, and then go hunting for better targets – but after paying a lot for your big guns you are effectively paying more to be unable to use them. Unless you really, REALLY like ramming enemy vehicles (and why wouldn't you, with a 24”/s8 move, +1 for Tank and +2 for Front AV? Strength 11 attacks are totally legal, right?) I'd go without.
    • Holo-Fields: Expensive, but it keeps your tank alive longer than anything else it can take. If, for some reason, you've paid for a Falcon instead of a cheaper Fire Prism as you prime source of high-strength attacks, you might as well go all the way and keep it safe for a little while.
    • Spirit Stones: Same as for the Fire Prism. Avoid.


    Support Platform
    Support Platforms are an odd bunch. They're among the most outlandish of weapons in the Eldar arsenal, which gives them the advantage of surprise since there's nothing quite like them elsewhere in the game. Otherwise though, they're AV10 and crewed with Guardians so you need to keep them safe, and their effects are also specific to certain targets. Generally, you can get better results from a mob of War Walkers or a couple of Fire Prisms, but if you want to take Platforms then always take the maximum number per slot, so as to deal out the most damage and – more importantly – you give you more Guardians that you can afford to lose before they stop working.
    • D-Cannon: D-Cannons take everything that's wrong with a Wraithcannon and fixes it – twice the range, and a Blast template to boot. Although 24” range still isn't fantastic, it's good enough to reach any immediate threats and to have a thin line of Guardians (or, preferably, a close combat specialist) between you and them. The only thing I dislike about D-Cannons is that I can't equip one to my Wraithlord or Wave Serpent..... OR CAN'T I!?
    • Vibrocannon: Vibrocannon are.... weird. They are, however, probably the weakest of the three varieties, since they're AP- and can only ever inflict glancing hits on vehicles (or nothing at all on Skimmers). It's one thing for it to be statistically unlikely that a weapon can't harm something, it's another entirely that it physically CANNOT do so.
    • Night-Spinner: S6 is fine, AP- is bad, being only a Blast (rather than Large Blast) is upsetting. There aren't all that many wonderful benefits to 48” range on the average 4'x6' table, and whatever you're aiming at D-Cannons will kill it more efficiently.
    • Warlock: Weapons Platforms all fire indirectly, and so should always be nestled deep in cover. This means that you usually have no need for Conceal, and quite frankly there's no use for any of the other powers. He is, in most events, an ablative wound with a 4++ save that would otherwise mean a dead crewman for the main weapons. You might take a Warlock and upgrade him to Spiritseer if you have a couple of Wraithlord lurking on your back line, but honestly if you're going down that route, you might as well forgo the charade and take a third Wraithlord. It's unimaginative, but it works.


    Heavy Diagnosis: Two Fire Prisms and a squad of Dark Reapers will kill just about anything the game can throw at you, and it's not even the most expensive combination available to you. Then again, the thought of 9 War Walkers churning out 72 Scatter Laser shot per turn is..... amusing. And very nearly the same price.


    Special Characters
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    [b][u]Eldrad Ulthuan[u][b]
    The most powerful living psyker in the galaxy! Well... Apart from Tiguris. And Njal. And Mephiston. And Draigo. And a bunch of unnamed Grey Knight Librarians. And a whole bunch of Chaos Sorcerers and Daemon Princes. And.... well, you get the idea; fluff isn't always the same things as crunch, and the years haven't been kind to Eldrad's carefully cultivated image. He still has a trick or two up his sleeve, but like any Psyker his main strength comes from the Powers available to him, and Eldar Powers require a lot of forward planning.
    • Statwise, not great – though better than most other Eldar, T4 isn't much at all, and despite an impressive 3++ save he isn't an Eternal Warrior, nor does he have much in the way of close combat prowess. Despite being a really good one, Eldrad is just like any other Farseer - Keep. Him. Out. Of. Fights.
    • Wargear: The Staff of Ulthamar is a trap. If you ever get the chance to use it as a weapon, you have done something horribly wrong. Don't think of it as a weapon at all, think of it as a means to using Guide or Fortune twice per turn. Otherwise, he has all the trimmings that makes him a good Farseer, insofar as we're concerned – Runes of Warding to protect your army, Runes of Witnessing are unnecessary with Ld10 but helpful when you're fighting Psychic Hoods or the Shadow in the Warp, and a Ghosthelm for when using 3 powers per turn inevitably goes wrong.
    • Psychic Powers: Eldrad has all 5 of the Farseer Powers, and can use 3 per turn (two of which can be the same, if you like). Functionally, this means that he is probably going to Fortune the unit that he's with and then either Guide or Doom two other units, depending on where he has ended up on the field. Always try to get off Fortune if you can; Eldrad is far too much of a valuable asset to you and your army to allow to die easily.
    • Divination: A great ability that has few counters outside of an all-Reserves opponent. The defensive purposes of this power are obvious, but a clever Eldar general can use this ability if they are setting up first to lure their opponent into a trap. Setup a dangerous unit somewhere that looks clever but leaves one obvious vantage point for LoS. Your opponent will try to exploit this, probably by pointing lots of missile launchers at it, only for you to move your target out of harm's way and then train your own unit of death-dealing upon your would-be assassins in turn. It will rarely work more than once against the same opponent, unless you have a really good poker face, but in a Tournament where people won't recognise your army? It's worth a go.
    • Where to put Eldrad..... Ideally, on the back line with a very carefully hidden unit of Pathfinders, Wraithguard (He counts, for the purposes of Wraithsight, btw) or maybe Dark Reapers. He certainly doesn't want to risk going to the front line if you can help it. Hide him away in the middle of your board where he can influence as many units as possible. Some people suggest that he benefits from being with a Warlock that has Embolden, but quite frankly I think this is overkill. By all means, if you have a Warlock squad anyway they love Fortune as much as the next 4++ unit, but don't go out of your way to give a reroll to a Ld10, Rune'd Farseer-extraordinaire.


    The biggest problems with Eldrad is that he is a 'toolbox' unit in an army of very specialised units. Your instinct will be to spread him thin, trying to help out too many friendly units, but I warn you that this is dangerous. Pick a role for him, stick to it, and leave ancillary events in the hands of a second, specifically-equipped Farseer. This will also protect you if the worst comes to pass and you lose Eldrad; a second cheap Farseer with one Power and Runes of Warding might not compare to Eldrad, but it's better than nothing at all.

    Prince Yriel
    Yriel is the Eldar's 'aggressive' Special Character; the one that you take if you need something specific killing quickly. Despite being very good at this role, he is a terrifyingly fragile Glass Cannon so be sure to look after him,
    • Stats: For a guy who is looking to go out there and get his hands dirty in a melee, Yriel hits quite a lot of the right notes. He's got plenty of attacks, is very competent and is blindingly quick on the draw. He is, sadly, an Eldar – s3 isn't a problem for once, thanks to the Spear of Twilight, but he's T3, his Invulnerable Save isn't as good as Eldrad's and he lacks Eternal Warrior. Follow the same advice with Yriel as you would with Aspect Warriors like Dire Avengers – get him into a fight by all means, but make sure that there's nothing left to hit back or you're going to come Second Best.
    • Abilities: Master Strategist is slightly less useful to Yriel as it is to an ordinary Autarch, in that it relies on you having lots of Deep Striking units (you probably won't, unless you're working to a non-Iyanden theme) and because Yriel can't have a 'jet pack' to join these units, where he'd be incredibly useful to them. It's there if you need it, but you probably won't.
    • Wargear: I7 and Plasma Grenades are lots of fun. The Spear of Twilight is awesome, and makes Yriel a boon to any other close-combat unit he joins; Tanks, Monstrous Creatures, Squads of Infantry.... Between Wounding everything on 2+, being s9 versus vehicles and a power weapon against everything else, he can take down all but the most exceptional of units, which is pretty damn impressive given that he's a Special Character over 2 Editions old and can still pose a significant threat to the Sanguinator. Mephiston.... not so much. The other drawback of the item – take one automatic wound at the end of the game, invulnerable save as normal – really isn't much to worry about. Yriel is T3 and not Eternal; during the course of a game he's either going to survive intact or he's probably just going to explode into fine red mist, with little leeway in between. So he's either going to ignore it, or be too dead to care.
      The Baleful Eye is a similarly useful, though somewhat more dangerous item; while Yriel himself is immune to it, other nearby Eldar Units are not and it'd be a rare thing for Yriel to be in Close Combat alone. Either use it when you're feeling confident that Yriel can wipe out his enemy alone and then move straight into cover (Doom will almost certainly be involved) or when everything else has gone wrong, your bodyguard has been wiped out, and you haven't much else to lose. If nothing else, always try to do it only in your opponent's Turn – Yriel will survive, and if he has successfully just inflicted a fatal blow to the enemy squad then he can move freely in his own turn rather than be shot to bits in your opponent's.


    Howling Banshees love Yriel, because he has a 'strength 10' power weapon. Striking Scorpions love Yriel, because he has a 'strength 10' power weapon. Harlequins love Yriel, because he has a 'strength 10' power weapon. Storm Guardians hate Yriel, because he's quite happy to use them as ablative wounds and then consider them acceptable losses when he lets loose with the Baleful Eye.

    Phoenix Lords
    Phoenix Lords are, in a way, 1 Special Character with 6 different outfits – they all have the same stats and are Unique choices, so the differences come just from their equipment. So, I'll give you a quick run through the similarities before I move on to the specifics and save time all around.
    Generally speaking, all Phoenix Lords should be your “Second HQ Choice” - Farseers are too valuable to go without, and if you like a particular theme or just need something with a bit more bite than a Autarch then they're 'okay'. In all examples bar one (Maugan Ra/Dark Reapers) you either need a Phoenix Lord or an Exarch, but not both. Strangely, there are more Phoenix Lords (Maugan Ra and Asurmen) where you can get away without using their Aspect at all, if you really want to.
    • Stats: Phoenix Lords have great stats, even by the standards of most other races. They're all Eternal Warriors (Yay!) with 2+ saves (Yay!) plenty of wounds (Yay!).... but only one of them has an Invulnerable Save (Boo!) and, despite whatever Aspect they embody, all leans towards close combat rather than shooting. They're all WS7, I7, Fearless and invariably have a special Close Combat Weapon, regardless of whatever else they're supposed to do.
    • Disciples: When they join a Squad of their Aspect, that squad becomes Fearless. While this has it's uses, this is fairly disappointing compared to other armies; as a direct comparison to another HQ Special Character having an effect on an Elite choice, Pedro Kantor makes all Sternguard Scoring, which would be massively preferable. Note that Phoenix Lords cannot join an Aspect Warrior type that is not of their Aspect, but they can join other kinds of units – Guardians and Pathfinders, for example.


    Asurmen, the Hand of Asuryan
    Asurmen is the Dire Avenger Phoenix Lord. He has an Assault 4 Avenger Catapult and Bladestorm, and has a Diresword with it's own built-in Reroll and Defend, so he's really well built. He's also the only Phoenix Lord with an Invulnerable Save and represents a Scoring Troops choice, and as such is probably the most rounded of the bunch. A Fearless Troops choice, rerolling it's Saves thanks to a Farseer, will sit on an objective forever and Asurman will personally take apart anyone who tries to stop them. As such, he can sometimes be found working well with Guardians and Storm Guardians – they don't benefit from Bladestorm, but Defend still works, it's cheaper than Dire Avengers and his generically-useful wargear makes him a reasonably good General.... in general.

    Jain Zar, the Storm of Silence
    Howling Banshee Phoenix Lord. She has a s6 (7, on the charge) Executioner – an even better version of the best Exarch's choice – and a s5 Triskele which is an even better version of a.... well, an okay-ish weapon. She – and note, she alone – has the Furious Charge special rule. This isn't brilliant – the jump from s6 to s7 isn't as important as s7 to s8, and her Banshee Mask makes her I10 in the first round regardless of whether she charged or not – but it's okay. You can't really ask more from the cheapest of the Phoenix Lords, and she's really good at her job.

    Baharroth, the Cry of the Wind
    Do I have to? Really? Oh, all right then.... Baharroth is a sucky Phoenix Lord for a sucky Aspect. He is equipped with Swooping Hawk Exarch equipment, which really isn't any better for being in his hands, and definitely not for 200pts. That's basically you, paying 120+pts over the cost of a similarly equipped Exarch for Fearless and Hit & Run. On a T3 4+ unit that, should they actually be Assaulted, won't live long enough to use either. You can't even say that he makes up for his lameness by being cheap, as both Jain Zar and Maugan Ra cost less. And one-on-one, both would probably take him to pieces, if it came down to it.

    Karandras, the Shadow Hunter
    Of the Striking Scorpion Aspect. Actually a very good investment – he comes with a boatload of extra attacks to add to the grand total (10 Scorpions + Exarch + Karandras = 49 Attacks. Have fun!) and he is Base-S4 which not only makes his Biting Blade stretch up to s10 on a really good day (not entirely out of the question, with WS7) but also gives his Power Claw that Magic s8 if you're feeling fancy enough to use it. On top of that, he gives his unit Stealth which is incredibly useful when he also gives them Move Through Cover and Infiltrate, and as such is rightfully the second most expensive of the Phoenix Lords (and my personal favourite).

    Fuegan, the Burning Lance
    Somewhat lacklustre as the Fire Dragon Phoenix Lord, as he is a close combat character within a unit of shooting Troops. His Firepike is a sub-par choice for a man in his position, and though Feel No Pain isn't quite as good as a proper Invulnerable Save it will often suffice for when he brings the otherwise really useful Fire Axe to bare. Fuegan is the Phoenix Lord that wants to run ahead of his actual squad and stomp on whatever survives 11 Fusion Guns to the face, which is a dangerous proposition however you look at it. I've never met anything that has survived 10 Fusion Guns to the face outside of a 30-strong Ork Mob... And quite frankly, I wouldn't want Fuegan going after that on his own either. Generally, detach him from the squad but leave him nestled within, so as to give him a Cover Save, and then fire at different targets; Fuegan at the Tank, Fire Dragons at the Terminators (or whatever) hiding within.

    Maugan Ra, the Harvester of Souls
    Master of the Dark Reapers Aspect, Maugan Ra is similar to Fuegan but far more radical; he actually hates being a Dark Reaper and wants to do something – anything – else rather than sit around with them. For example; Reaper Launchers are AP3 and as such want to shoot at Space Marines. The Maugetar is AP5, and as such, does not. Dark Reapers also want nothing to do with Close Combat; Maugan Ra is I7 and has a s6 Power Weapon. So this is 'the one' where you will need an Exarch as well as your Phoenix Lord, since the latter has almost nothing to do with the former.
    What do you actually do with a guy like this? Hard to say really – even though he's one of the cheaper Phoenix Lords, he's still too expensive to waste by just sitting around at the back of your table and wait to ambush anyone trying to Deep Strike or Infiltrate around your Dark Reaper Squad.... But he's pretty much perfect for it. Either that or he does the same for Wraithguard as an Autarch would – lies in wait, an ultraviolent trap waiting for anyone foolish enough to try and Assault his T6, 3+, Fearless squad of ablative wounds.......

    Special Character Diagnosis: Yriel is a more dangerous - but no less fragile - version of an Autarch. Which is okay. Eldrad can just about do the work of two Farseers, and leaves you with room to take ANOTHER Farseer. Which is cool. The Phoenix Lords.... Eh. They're full of flavour, and some of them are very dangerous, but they're not really any more use than an appropriately equipped Autarch, who will inevitably be cheaper. They're "Second Choice" material, if you feel that you need to fit to a particular theme.

    Except Baharroth. No one likes Baharroth.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XV: "More People Should Be Punched In The Head."

    Quote Originally Posted by Haruspex_Pariah View Post
    Spent the past few days poring over it and skimming the Interwebz for opinions and I have only one question: Celestians, what are they good for?
    Since you're Sisters, you're going to be in Assault range of the enemy. It's just a fact. They're cheaper than Battle Sisters, and only slightly more expensive than Dominions (for the same amount of special weapons). The difference is, Celestians can take a Heavy Flamer, and Dominions can't. Since Dominions have been hit with the nerf bat something chronic, Celestians do have the increased stats that make them better at where they're going to be.

    @Wraith, did you just copy-paste your posts, and then not copy-paste them all into one post for totally easy compiling and access?

    @Ricky S, added to OP.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XV: "More People Should Be Punched In The Head."

    For a justifiable reason: If I did it on one post, I hit the character limit and couldn't show any of it.

    This way I'm guaranteed that a) they'll fit, and b) they'll now be right next to each other for nearly-as-easy reference.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XV: "More People Should Be Punched In The Head."

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    For a justifiable reason: If I did it on one post, I hit the character limit and couldn't show any of it.

    This way I'm guaranteed that a) they'll fit, and b) they'll now be right next to each other for nearly-as-easy reference.
    Did you actually try it? The character limit is gigantic.
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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XV: "More People Should Be Punched In The Head."

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Since you're Sisters, you're going to be in Assault range of the enemy. It's just a fact. They're cheaper than Battle Sisters, and only slightly more expensive than Dominions (for the same amount of special weapons). The difference is, Celestians can take a Heavy Flamer, and Dominions can't. Since Dominions have been hit with the nerf bat something chronic, Celestians do have the increased stats that make them better at where they're going to be.
    I'm trying to understand this so bear with me. If I read you correctly, the Celestians should be used as a...close assault unit? Minimum squad size, heavy flamer plus meltagun/flamer? Immolator?

    I'm still not sold on the idea of a non-melee specialist intentionally getting into melee. You need to be pretty confident in your positioning and the weakness of your target, no?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XV: "More People Should Be Punched In The Head."

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    For a justifiable reason: If I did it on one post, I hit the character limit and couldn't show any of it.
    You do realise how big the OP is, right? And that I've written multiple guides before and haven't once hit the limit. So...Yeah.

    Quote Originally Posted by Haruspex_Pariah View Post
    I'm trying to understand this so bear with me. If I read you correctly, the Celestians should be used as a...close assault unit? Minimum squad size, heavy flamer plus meltagun/flamer? Immolator?
    /sigh.
    The entire Sisters army is close Assault. Ideally, you want your squads inside 12" (that's Assault range, even for non-Jump armies). Templates are 8-9", Meltas have a 12" range, and maximum efficiency Bolters is inside 12".

    Unless you want to spam Heavy Bolters. Which doesn't quite work.

    Your Sisters are going to be in Assault. Whether you want them to or not. It's a fact. It's like Dire Avengers. You might call them a shooty unit; But 8 games out of ten they're going to be in Assault by Turn 2 or 3. Same with Sisters...Except with all their units.

    In short, Sisters are kind of like a He'Stan army, except with none of the staying power. And, because of that fact, most people use a He'Stan list, with 'Allied Space Marine units' and they just claim that they like the models and don't have the White Dwarves. Got Power Armour? Got Bolters? That's a Marine.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XV: "More People Should Be Punched In The Head."

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    /sigh.
    The entire Sisters army is close Assault. Ideally, you want your squads inside 12" (that's Assault range, even for non-Jump armies). Templates are 8-9", Meltas have a 12" range, and maximum efficiency Bolters is inside 12".

    Unless you want to spam Heavy Bolters. Which doesn't quite work.

    Your Sisters are going to be in Assault. Whether you want them to or not. It's a fact. It's like Dire Avengers. You might call them a shooty unit; But 8 games out of ten they're going to be in Assault by Turn 2 or 3. Same with Sisters...Except with all their units.

    In short, Sisters are kind of like a He'Stan army, except with none of the staying power. And, because of that fact, most people use a He'Stan list, with 'Allied Space Marine units' and they just claim that they like the models and don't have the White Dwarves. Got Power Armour? Got Bolters? That's a Marine.
    I understand that the Sister of Battle are a close-ranged army; it was a bit hard to miss. My first post specified Celestians, and their position relative to other SOB units.

    So let me reformulate the question: why would you take Celestians over Repentia for your Elite slot? As you say, Sisters will be in Assault regardless. So why not take a unit that really wants to be there?

    I'm not trying to be argumentative, the other forums I lurk in basically wrote off Celestians as sub-par so I was surprised when you disagreed with that.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XV: "More People Should Be Punched In The Head."

    Quote Originally Posted by Haruspex_Pariah View Post
    I'm not trying to be argumentative, the other forums I lurk in basically wrote off Celestians as sub-par so I was surprised when you disagreed with that.
    Celestians are sub-par. Can't argue with that. But, as compared to Repentia...

    Well, Repentia are even worse. Rage and the inability to take a Dedicated Transport is amazingly bad. Since according to the rules, if you've got Rage, you can't embark on a Transport. You can get out of one, but you can't get back in.

    Repentia are overshadowed by Battle Conclaves. Which is what most people are taking. Two of them. But, as far as I know, if you want that, you're better off with Grey Knights.

    But your original question was 'what are Celestians good for'; And the answer is 'not dying in Assault'. Not neccessarily winning Assault, but being a tarpit. Which you do sometimes need.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XV: "More People Should Be Punched In The Head."

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade Paladin View Post
    Did you actually try it? The character limit is gigantic.
    No - For some reason, I'm under the impression that it's something like 45,000 characters. My whole post weighs in at 85,000+, so even if I didn't just imagine that number I could probably have done it in two posts, I guess....

    ....Meh. I hereby retcon my previous post to say "It's split into small chunks so that people can read the bit they want without having to wade through 11 other pages of text first"....

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    You do realise how big the OP is, right?
    Yes, because the last time I posted it I cut down big chunks of it and exchanged them for hyperlinks, on the grounds that it's easier to read headings and follow links to the specific articles that you want, rather than grind through everything at once.

    Okay, probably personal preference, but I think it looks neater that way.

    Anyways, it's done. If you would like me to write the Eldar Summary so that you can have an easy time by just copy/pasting it, then by all means say so. I'm here to help. As far as any of you pathetic mon-keigh know, anyway..... =P
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    Anyways, it's done. If you would like me to write the Eldar Summary so that you can have an easy time by just copy/pasting it, then by all means say so. I'm here to help.
    All three (three!) parts are posted to the OP. If you want to Edit in a summary into the last post (or even the first) you are free to do so. Or make a whole new post and make it four. Y'know...Because you're here to help...I think...
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XV: "More People Should Be Punched In The Head."

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Well, Repentia are even worse. Rage and the inability to take a Dedicated Transport is amazingly bad. Since according to the rules, if you've got Rage, you can't embark on a Transport. You can get out of one, but you can't get back in.
    Whoa. "Steal a friendly squad's transport" is one of the tactics I see suggested to make Repentia work. Are you saying it's not even legal? That changes things.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haruspex_Pariah View Post
    Whoa. "Steal a friendly squad's transport" is one of the tactics I see suggested to make Repentia work.
    Normally, yes, since it works for other armies as well. However, a lot of people fail to take into account how Rage works, and the fact that Repentia have it.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XV: "More People Should Be Punched In The Head."

    http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhamme...PLETE-KIT.html

    Doesn't this vehicle turn Sisters into the ultimate mech list? It's pretty badass.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XV: "More People Should Be Punched In The Head."

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    No - For some reason, I'm under the impression that it's something like 45,000 characters. My whole post weighs in at 85,000+, so even if I didn't just imagine that number I could probably have done it in two posts, I guess....
    Your impression is incorrect. Rawhide has said multiple times that he's set the limit arbitrarily high specifically so people don't have to do that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluntpencil View Post
    Doesn't [Repressors] turn Sisters into the ultimate mech list? It's pretty badass.
    Yes and no. Not since Dominions were nerfed. Now everyone just gets to fire Boltguns out of it which is nowhere near as good as it sounds. Unless you want to go and pay points for a full ten Dominions, 3 times.

    30 Dominions and 3 Repressors could work. But using Forgeworld to make your army good works for everybody. Ultimately Forgeworld is either not allowed or frowned upon, or 'If you're using Forgeworld then I can too', and there are far more broken things in the Imperial Armour books than Repressors.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XV: "More People Should Be Punched In The Head."

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Yes and no. Not since Dominions were nerfed. Now everyone just gets to fire Boltguns out of it which is nowhere near as good as it sounds. Unless you want to go and pay points for a full ten Dominions, 3 times.

    30 Dominions and 3 Repressors could work. But using Forgeworld to make your army good works for everybody. Ultimately Forgeworld is either not allowed or frowned upon, or 'If you're using Forgeworld then I can too', and there are far more broken things in the Imperial Armour books than Repressors.
    It does have a heavy flamer too... and you can fire a heavy weapon too...

    I'm reckoning that's pretty good, especially with Dominion squads.

    But, yeah, guess you're right re: FW.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XV: "More People Should Be Punched In The Head."

    So, I decided to compare death star units in my two armies. Here's what I came up with

    6x Canoptek Wraiths 250 pts
    -3x Whip Coils, 2x Particle Casters
    Destroyer Lord 160 pts
    -Sempiternal Weave, Mindshackle Scarabs

    vs.

    5x Thunderwolf Cavalry 345 pts
    -nothing
    -melta bombs
    -storm shield
    -storm shield and meltabombs
    -power fist

    I'm trying to figure out which would be superior. Your thoughts?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squark View Post
    I'm trying to figure out which would be superior. Your thoughts?
    Well, my Cron-fu isn't what it could be, but I'll offer what I know and hopefully someone will correct me and I'll learn something in the process. Also I'm biased. But I'm genuinely interested in this topic, so why not contribute?

    First of all your wraith-star cost nearly 20% more than the woof-star.

    We'll look at mobility first: Both units can reliably threaten (and therefore control) a large area of the board. Thanks to fleet, TWC have a slightly higher threat range, at least in theory. Wraiths can bypass some stall tactics, like rhino blockades. I like the surprise threat range the cavalry provide, but that's just personal preference speaking--YMMV.
    EDIT: I almost forgot. Ruins and Buildings. Lots of Ruins and Buildings make wraiths far superior.

    Then offense: S6 Rending and S5 Rending both mean that light vehicles are going to be something you're capable of taking down easily. The cavalry also bring a s10 fist into the fray, which relies WAY less on luck to scrap armor and also IDs the crap out of a lot of things. Whereas wraiths have their coils to make taking down other super-units (TWC, Mephiston, big mean monstrous creatures) easy-peasy. I'd call it a wash.

    Defensively, the Crons have more guys to put wounds on and Invulns all around, but as a death star one of the things you're worried about is getting shot up. A few cavalry should be able to stick their toes behind some rocks and claim a 4+, in addition to the two invulns you've mixed in, though I'd take 3++ all around over having to work at hiding any day of the week. So this comes out even enough for my tastes. What we can really address is the glaring differnece: toughness. Wraiths get ID'd by S8 and there is plenty of S8 floating around 40k, but (perhaps more importantly) they're also more vulnerable to small arms fire.
    Last edited by BoSheck; 2012-05-15 at 01:02 PM.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XV: "More People Should Be Punched In The Head."

    Quote Originally Posted by BoSheck View Post
    Then offense: S6 Rending and S5 Rending both mean that light vehicles are going to be something you're capable of taking down easily. The cavalry also bring a s10 fist into the fray, which relies WAY less on luck to scrap armor and also IDs the crap out of a lot of things. Whereas wraiths have their coils to make taking down other super-units (TWC, Mephiston, big mean monstrous creatures) easy-peasy. I'd call it a wash.
    I'd question wether a Warscythe (Which is now +2 Strength) vs. a Powerfist is better at killing vehicles. S7 +2d6 Armor Pen isn't that different from S10. Let me run the math...

    Armor Penetration
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    S10 Power Fist
    Chance of penetrating AV 10: 100%
    Chance of penetrating AV 11: 83.3%
    Chance of penetrating AV 12: 66.7%
    Chance of Penetrating AV 13: 50.0%
    Chance of Penetrating AV 14: 33.3%

    Warscythe
    Chance of Penetrating AV 10: 91.7%
    Chance of Penetrating AV 11: 83.3%
    Chance of Penetrating AV 12: 72.2%
    Chance of Penetrating AV 13: 58.3%
    Chance of Penetrating AV 14: 55.6%


    Armor Penetration+Glancing
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    S10 Power Fist
    Chance of affecting AV 10: 100%
    Chance of affecting AV 11: 100%
    Chance of affecting AV 12: 88.3%
    Chance of affecting AV 13: 66.7%
    Chance of affecting AV 14: 50.0%

    Warscythe
    Chance of affecting AV 10: 97.2%
    Chance of affecting AV 11: 91.7%
    Chance of affecting AV 12: 83.3%
    Chance of affecting AV 13: 72.2%
    Chance of affecting AV 14: 58.3%


    So... The Powerfist is better against transports (AV 10-11), while the Warscythe is superior for fighting walkers and heavy armor.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XV: "More People Should Be Punched In The Head."

    Quote Originally Posted by Squark View Post
    I'd question wether a Warscythe (Which is now +2 Strength) vs. a Powerfist is better at killing vehicles. S7 +2d6 Armor Pen isn't that different from S10. Let me run the math...

    So... The Powerfist is better against transports (AV 10-11), while the Warscythe is superior for fighting walkers and heavy armor.
    I think the fist also comes out ahead in # of attacks, though. As the numbers attest, penetrating isn't an issue for either--but you've got to hit. Obviously the higher WS of the lord comes in handy for fighting Walkers (ew, DCCWs...), but everywhere else you're hitting on 4s/6s. It doesn't matter for vehicles, either, but s10 is an ID machine for your team.

    I'm hoping to observe some necacroni and cheese games in the next couple weeks, maybe I can get a better idea of what they can and can't do then.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XV: "More People Should Be Punched In The Head."

    If Wraiths had Warscythes I would take them and nothing else. But Wraiths have S6 Rending which is pretty nice too. The Destroyer Lord that one might hide in a Wraith unit, on the other hand...

    ...will die the moment it engages anything that can fight back properly.
    (Where "properly" means "better than S4ish I2 with Power Weapons". Which come to think of it, are the very units that Wraiths excel at slaying. And get wargear to make that I2 bit not matter. Never mind, problem solved.)
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XV: "More People Should Be Punched In The Head."

    I have a question as a novice, someone who hasn't actually played but is considering it in the future.

    Is it possible to play an army using Black Templar rules without painting them black, and still not get wierd looks?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XV: "More People Should Be Punched In The Head."

    Quote Originally Posted by Maquise View Post
    Is it possible to play an army using Black Templar rules without painting them black, and still not get wierd looks?
    Are you using Black Templar parts? Probably not. I mean, you can do anything you want, but, if getting weird looks is a problem...

    If you aren't using BT parts, nor are you painting them black...You might need to think about painting them as a Chapter that has a reputation for being brutal; Executioners, Charc-...Space Sharks, or Minotaurs, etc. Bonus points for Executioners because they're also an Imperial Fist founding.


    EDIT: Talked to a Chaos Marine player today. Interesting conversation. Apparently the meta is moving away from Plague Marines to Thousand Sons and/or regular Chaos Marines with the Mark of Tzeentch. Missile-spam Marines and 'Power Weapons For Everyone!' Grey Knights turn Plague Marines into a sad joke. You need that Invulnerable. S&P on 1K Sons doesn't really make a difference since you don't want to be in Assault anyway and anytime you do want to move, you hopefully have a Rhino or using regular Tzeentch-Marines.

    Berzerkers/Khorne remains a solid choice though.
    Noise Marines remain overpriced.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XV: "More People Should Be Punched In The Head."

    Rules questions;
    a) Does initiative matter when assaulting a Vehicle (that isn't a walker)? Should the results of krak grenade attacks, for instance, be resolved before the power fist (And if the grenades wreck the vehicle, the power fist never gets a chance to punch it and blow it up)?
    b) If the answer to a) is yes, if the krak grenades were to immobilize the vehicle, would the powerfist now hit automatically?

    Also, I've been working on fine tuning my space wolves. Here is what I currently have (although I still need to pick up one more box of Grey Hunters. By the way, would it be possible to use some Astral Claws (13th Company version of Blood Claws) as Grey Hunters? Grey Hunters still technically have bolt pistols, after all, and I think it'd be a fairly cool look for them). I want to bring it up to 1250 points, but I currently still have 133 points left. Any recommendations on what I could use to bring it up to the full 1250, or any critiques on the list itself? Also, what sort of combi-weapon syrengizes well with an objective squatting Grey Hunters Plasma Pack?

    Spoiler
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    HQ: Rune Priest Erik Whitemane 125 pts
    -Chooser of the slain, Wolftooth necklace, Wolf Tail Talisman
    -- Living Lightning, Murderous Hurricane

    Elites:
    Wolf Guard Pack assigned to Rune Priest Erin(x4)- 172 pts
    -Powerfist, Combi-melta
    -Powerfist, Combi-melta
    -Powerfist, Combi-flamer
    -Powerfist, Combi-? (Not sure what to stick with the plasma hunters)
    Wolf Scout Pack Morkai's Fangs (x5)- 130 pts
    -Mark of the wulfen with Meltagun, 2 Power Swords

    Troops:
    Grey Hunters Pack x10 (Think of name later) -180 pts
    -2 Meltaguns, Wolf Standard, Mark of the Wulfen
    Grey Hunters Pack x10 -180 pts
    -2 Meltaguns, Wolf Standard, Mark of the Wulfen
    Grey Hunters Pack Paws of the Sunwolf (x10) -160 pts
    -2 Plasma guns

    Heavy Support:
    Long Fangs Pack (think of name later) -170 pts
    -3 Missile Launchers, 2 Lascannons


    EDIT: Possible 130 point additions;
    Wolf Priest (130 points is about all you can spend on one anyway)
    2nd Rune Priest (I don't like playing against the spirit of Leaders of the Pack, but that's certainly an option)
    Another Wolf Scouts Pack (Problem: No Wolf Guard Pack Leader)
    Autogun Dreadnaught (Taking only a single vehicle seems unwise, though)
    4 Missile Fangs plus some extra wargear on the HQ (Ungh. I really don't want to have to go looking for four more Missile Launchers, though).
    Giant Fenrisian wolf Pack? (Seems more silly than good)
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XV: "More People Should Be Punched In The Head."

    Quote Originally Posted by Squark View Post
    Rules questions;
    a) Does initiative matter when assaulting a Vehicle (that isn't a walker)? Should the results of krak grenade attacks, for instance, be resolved before the power fist (And if the grenades wreck the vehicle, the power fist never gets a chance to punch it and blow it up)?
    b) If the answer to a) is yes, if the krak grenades were to immobilize the vehicle, would the powerfist now hit automatically?
    Yep. Initiative matters, even in Vehicle assaults and you will have times where you get to immobilize a vehicle at I4 and then autohit it at I1.

    I want to bring it up to 1250 points, but I currently still have 133 points left. Any recommendations on what I could use to bring it up to the full 1250, or any critiques on the list itself? Also, what sort of combi-weapon syrengizes well with an objective squatting Grey Hunters Plasma Pack?
    I like to put a CML terminator wolfguard with my objective grabbing foot troops. Personal preference, but there's a utility there that you can't argue with. It will cut into your bonus points, tho!

    EDIT: Possible 130 point additions;
    Wolf Priest (130 points is about all you can spend on one anyway)
    So real quick:
    Wolf Priests are cool, but you might have trouble getting him into combat. Saga of the Hunter is ballin, large units of marines with stealth are sweet. Also fun is sticking him with Fenrisian Wolves.
    2nd Rune Priest (I don't like playing against the spirit of Leaders of the Pack, but that's certainly an option)
    You can't go wrong with another Rune Priest, and you can certainly gear him out to be less dodgy of Leaders of the Pack (Terminator armor, or a Saga, or make him a junior priest with no gear at all)
    [quote]
    Another Wolf Scouts Pack (Problem: No Wolf Guard Pack Leader)
    Autogun Dreadnaught (Taking only a single vehicle seems unwise, though)
    [/quote
    For different reasons, but both of these are probably not the right fit for your army at this point level.
    4 Missile Fangs plus some extra wargear on the HQ (Ungh. I really don't want to have to go looking for four more Missile Launchers, though).
    Giant Fenrisian wolf Pack? (Seems more silly than good)
    More Long Fangs are Good. Two units is enough so you can create lanes of fire and force your opponents into giving you clear shots. Fenrisian Wolves are also good filler, but I don't know if I'd take a giant pack in a serious list. Like 9 of them is the most I think I've ever taken in one pack. After that you start being able to afford really meaty units, like Terminator Lone Wolves (who can beat up major CC threats to your foot army) or full Long Fang units. Also: without the right army upgrades, their awful leadership will just see them sprinting off the board in no-time flat.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XV: "More People Should Be Punched In The Head."

    Quote Originally Posted by BoSheck View Post
    I like to put a CML terminator wolfguard with my objective grabbing foot troops. Personal preference, but there's a utility there that you can't argue with. It will cut into your bonus points, tho!
    That'd be an excellent idea if I had 5 wolf guard. Definitely something I should consider should I ever have a reason to add a 5th wolf guard.

    Addition wise, here are three possible options I came up with;

    Rune Priest
    -Terminator Armor, Saga of the Beastslayer
    --Living Lightning, Jaws of the World Wolf

    Wolf Priest
    -Melta bombs, wolf tooth necklace, either Saga of the Hunter or Runic Armor (Unfortunately, there's no Wolf Priest Model right now )

    Long Fangs Pack
    -4x Missile Launcher
    (Give Existing Rune Priest Saga of the Beastslayer and melta bombs)

    GW is now releasing most of the remaining Codex: Space Marines Finecast stuff.

    Personally, what I like best about the release is now all 9 first founding chapters are easily available again (They released an Iron Hands upgrade sprue). Also, that's a whole lot of Crimson Fists stuff there. Were they like the second flagship chapter (after Ultramarines) for a while or something?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XV: "More People Should Be Punched In The Head."

    Quote Originally Posted by Squark View Post
    Also, that's a whole lot of Crimson Fists stuff there. Were they like the second flagship chapter (after Ultramarines) for a while or something?
    They were the original flagship Chapter, I believe. On the Rogue Trader box.

    Also, Astral Claws are what the 13th Company call some of their dudes?

    I hope not...

    http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Astr...s#.T7P9k9z9OSo

    These guys actually nicked a Space Wolf strike cruiser, after becoming Red Corsairs!
    Last edited by bluntpencil; 2012-05-16 at 02:24 PM.

  30. - Top - End - #810
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XV: "More People Should Be Punched In The Head."

    Quote Originally Posted by Squark View Post
    Personally, what I like best about the release is now all 9 first founding chapters are easily available again (They released an Iron Hands upgrade sprue). Also, that's a whole lot of Crimson Fists stuff there. Were they like the second flagship chapter (after Ultramarines) for a while or something?
    I know the 2nd ed pster boys were Blood Angels because that's when I started up first time and I can still see that box in my head. GW do love the Crimson fists though, just look at all that love for them with conversion kits whereas the poor old Salamanders and Raven Guard are still Forge World only. I'm looking at the Legion of the Damned minis and thinking "Sternguard" and "That'd look nice in a tac squad" myself.

    "What's in this empty box ?"
    "Youth and talent is no match for age and treachery."
    Mechwarrior by Elder Tsofu


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