Warhammer 40K Tabletop XV: "More People Should Be Punched In The Head."

[Shovah]

Moving on from Fire Warriors, my FLGS is hosting a 40K tournament in a few months and I'm not sure what sort of list to bring.

I've got two armies. My Tau, who I'm a little out of practice with, and my GKs, who I usually field as horribly unoptimised Terminator-spam for fun.

Currently I'm thinking of fielding a list based around two large units of Terminators with a force-multiplier (Xenos Inquisitor/Techmarine) in each, backed by as much dakka as I can muster.

The first draft looks a little like this:

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HQ
Ordo Xenos Inquisitor - 94 Points
Mastery Level 1: Hammerhand
Bolt Pistol, Force Sword, Psychotroke Grenades, Rad Grenades
+Servo-Skulls (x3)

Ordo Xenos Inquisitor - 91 Points
Mastery Level 1: Hammerhand
Bolt Pistol, Force Sword, Psychotroke Grenades, Rad Grenades
+Servo-Skulls (x2)

ELITES
Vindicare Assassin - 145 Points

Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband (x11) - 80 Points
Psyker x6, Warrior Acolyte x5

Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband (x11) - 80 Points
Psyker x6, Warrior Acolyte x5

TROOPS
Grey Knight Terminator Squad (x10) - 495 Points
Brotherhood Banner, Nemesis Daemon Hammer x2, Nemesis Force Halberds x7, Psybolt Ammunition, Psycannon x2

Grey Knight Terminator Squad (x10) - 495 Points
Brotherhood Banner, Nemesis Daemon Hammer x2, Nemesis Force Halberds x7, Psybolt Ammunition, Psycannon x2

FAST ATTACK

HEAVY SUPPORT
Grey Knight Dreadnought - 135 Points
2x Twin-Linked Autocannon, Psybolt Ammunition

Grey Knight Dreadnought - 135 Points
2x Twin-Linked Autocannon, Psybolt Ammunition

TOTAL: 1750

Obviously, I could make some major improvements to it.

My Tau list is significantly more optimised, but like I said, I'm a little out of practice with them.

I'm not sure what everyone else will say, but I really like that list. It may not be entirely optimal, but it certainly looks fun, and you seem to be getting a lot out of those units.

Only change I can think of (sticking to the general idea of the list) would be swapping
"Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband (x11) - 80 Points
Psyker x6, Warrior Acolyte x5

Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband (x11) - 80 Points
Psyker x6, Warrior Acolyte x5"
+the psychotrokes and one or two servo-skulls

for
"Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband (x3) - 97 Points
Warrior Acolyte x3, Meltagun x3, Chimera

Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband (x3) - 97 Points
Warrior Acolyte x3, Meltagun x3, Chimera"


On the other hand, that could just be because I just don't find the big psyker units that reliable. A lot of it would also depend on what you face, I suppose.

[Ricky S]

Moving on from Fire Warriors, my FLGS is hosting a 40K tournament in a few months and I'm not sure what sort of list to bring.

I've got two armies. My Tau, who I'm a little out of practice with, and my GKs, who I usually field as horribly unoptimised Terminator-spam for fun.

Currently I'm thinking of fielding a list based around two large units of Terminators with a force-multiplier (Xenos Inquisitor/Techmarine) in each, backed by as much dakka as I can muster.

The first draft looks a little like this:

Spoiler

Show

HQ
Ordo Xenos Inquisitor - 94 Points
Mastery Level 1: Hammerhand
Bolt Pistol, Force Sword, Psychotroke Grenades, Rad Grenades
+Servo-Skulls (x3)

Ordo Xenos Inquisitor - 91 Points
Mastery Level 1: Hammerhand
Bolt Pistol, Force Sword, Psychotroke Grenades, Rad Grenades
+Servo-Skulls (x2)

ELITES
Vindicare Assassin - 145 Points

Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband (x11) - 80 Points
Psyker x6, Warrior Acolyte x5

Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband (x11) - 80 Points
Psyker x6, Warrior Acolyte x5

TROOPS
Grey Knight Terminator Squad (x10) - 495 Points
Brotherhood Banner, Nemesis Daemon Hammer x2, Nemesis Force Halberds x7, Psybolt Ammunition, Psycannon x2

Grey Knight Terminator Squad (x10) - 495 Points
Brotherhood Banner, Nemesis Daemon Hammer x2, Nemesis Force Halberds x7, Psybolt Ammunition, Psycannon x2

FAST ATTACK

HEAVY SUPPORT
Grey Knight Dreadnought - 135 Points
2x Twin-Linked Autocannon, Psybolt Ammunition

Grey Knight Dreadnought - 135 Points
2x Twin-Linked Autocannon, Psybolt Ammunition

TOTAL: 1750

Obviously, I could make some major improvements to it.

My Tau list is significantly more optimised, but like I said, I'm a little out of practice with them.

I think the only thing you need for your list is two chimeras for your psyker battle squads.

[Tome]

I think the only thing you need for your list is two chimeras for your psyker battle squads.

Maybe.

I'm not fond of meching up though, and the Henchmen were only added because I couldn't find a better way to spend another 160 points.

If folks think they won't do anything without a Chimera, I'm more likely to just scrap them for something else.

[TechnoScrabble]

So...I'm reading the tyranid 5th edition codex...and I can't find the listing for genestealers, hive tyrants, and half a dozen other things back where points costs are listed.

[Tome]

So...I'm reading the tyranid 5th edition codex...and I can't find the listing for genestealers, hive tyrants, and half a dozen other things back where points costs are listed.

They're certainly in there.

The Hive Tyrant is on page 86 and Genestealers are on page 90.

Maybe try another look, eh?

[TechnoScrabble]

They're certainly in there.

The Hive Tyrant is on page 86 and Genestealers are on page 90.

Maybe try another look, eh?

Just realized that the copy I'm reading is missing pages.
...Which may be why Matt always loses when he plays his nids...

[Cheesegear]

Just realized that the copy I'm reading is missing pages.

I lol'd.

[Sila Prirode]

Just realized that the copy I'm reading is missing pages.
...Which may be why Matt always loses when he plays his nids...

I actually lost a game because of this. It was Annihilation, and I left my Chaos Codex at home, so I had to copy stats from that AoBR book (I knew my list and all the upgrades by heart, but I didn't bother to actually learn the statlines).
And it came to be that Fiends of Slaanesh have their S misprinted in that book, it's listed as one less then it is (can I mention the number, or does it violate that rule that you can't say anything about numbers?).
So, when I charged my opponents Dreadnought, I found myself unable to penetrate his AV, and getting my 6 Fiends killed in few turns. Cost me the game later. Stupid misprints

[Teln]

Aren't Xenos Inquisitors the ones with the Plasma Syphon? That's pretty much a must-have.

[Cheesegear]

So, after realising that I'm idiot, my final list looks like this;

Imperial Guard - 500 Points

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Company Command Squad - 60 Points
Grenade Launcher, Mortar

Company Command Squad - 60 Points
Grenade Launcher, Mortar

Marbo - 65 Points

Veterans - 105 Points
Lascannon, x3 Grenade Launchers

Veterans - 105 Points
Lascannon, x3 Grenade Launchers

Veterans - 105 Points
Lascannon, x3 Grenade Launchers

More Orders, more models on the board. And Officers of the Fleet can't hit for poop. Drop 3 Ratlings, drop a guy who can't hit anything, and gain a whole new set of Orders.

[Hazzardevil]

After much experimenting, me and a friend managed to fix one of the battlesuits.
The previous owner had stuck a crisis battlesuit down like in this picture.


Now it's stuck down by it's two big twos on one foot looking like it's about to fall over. It's sturdy though.

[Renegade Paladin]

After much experimenting, me and a friend managed to fix one of the battlesuits.
The previous owner had stuck a crisis battlesuit down like in this picture.
[IMG]http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2009/6/27/39986_md-Crisis%20Battlesuit,%20Fire,%20Tau.JPG[IMG]

Now it's stuck down by it's two big twos on one foot looking like it's about to fall over. It's sturdy though.

The modeling thread is over here. I fail to see anything wrong with the first way; there's no problem with modeling jump infantry actually jumping.

[Elite_Lurker]

I've got a 500-point tourney coming up at my local game store. Not sure on the objectives, but it'll probably be Annihalation.

Here's the first draft of my list:

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HQ:
1x Shas'o Commander- 165 pts.
Cyclic Ion Blaster, Plasma Rifle, Vectored Retro-Thrusters, Hardwired Multitracker, Stimulant Injectors, Hardwired Drone Controller, 1x Shield Drone

Elites:
2x XV8 Crisis Battlesuits- 144 pts.
Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Targeting Array, Hardwired Multitracker, 1x Team Leader (Shas'vre w/ Stimulant Injectors

Troops:
6x Firewarriors- 60 pts

6x Firewarriors- 60 pts

Fast Attack:
N/A

Heavy Support:
XV88 Broadside Battlesuit- 70 pts

Total- 499 pts

Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated.

If it would help to know this, the other players in my local 40K group consist of:

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3 Codex Marines
2 Grey Knights
1 Necrons
2 Tau (3 counting myself)
1 Tyranids
1 Chaos Space Marines
1 Chaos Daemons

[Badgercloak]

Been awhile since I got on here so here's what I've got so far for my first SM army so far:
5x Tac squads (50 models)
1x Scout squad (10 models)
2x Devastator squads (20 models)
1.5x Assault squads (15 models)
1x HQ SM Commander/ Captain (1 model)
1x Command squad (5 models)
2x Rhinos (2 models)

Going to the shop to pick up some new stuff. Thinking about getting Drop Pods maybe some Elites.

[Squark]

Been awhile since I got on here so here's what I've got so far for my first SM army so far:
5x Tac squads (50 models)
1x Scout squad (10 models)
2x Devastator squads (20 models)
1.5x Assault squads (15 models)
1x HQ SM Commander/ Captain (1 model)
1x Command squad (5 models)
2x Rhinos (2 models)

Going to the shop to pick up some new stuff. Thinking about getting Drop Pods maybe some Elites.

Almost every Space Marine army runs at least 1 drop pod, simply because it means you get to deploy 1 unit in your opponent's DZ 1st turn. (PROTIP: Odd numbers of Drop Pods are the way to go). Combi-melta Sternguard or a dreadnaught is what I would reccomend. Also, more Metal Boxes. Probably some of them as plazorbacks (Razorbacks with a Lascannon and twin plasmagun sponsons. Rhinos are, unless you're using He'stan, not very good in C:SM).

EDIT: Also, 5 more Assault marines. Because you're That close to having an entire battle company, according to the standard Codex Astrates organization (Minus the landraider for the command squad and additional rhinos for the devastators and tacticals. But both of those are bad choices anyway, so you can sideline those).

[DaedalusMkV]

Okay, a Tau list to comment on. Let's take a look.

I've got a 500-point tourney coming up at my local game store. Not sure on the objectives, but it'll probably be Annihalation.

Here's the first draft of my list:

HQ:
1x Shas'o Commander- 165 pts.
Cyclic Ion Blaster, Plasma Rifle, Vectored Retro-Thrusters, Hardwired Multitracker, Stimulant Injectors, Hardwired Drone Controller, 1x Shield Drone

First, he's illegal. If you have a Vectored Retro-thruster, you can't have Drones. So just drop the Thruster and you're good to go. He's an okay damage dank, but a little pricey for my tastes even with the VRT gone. Consider making him a Shas'el and giving him a Targetting Array to save you some more points. Also, your points are incorrect. As-is, he's 150 points. Without the VRT, he's 140. Otherwise, Plas/CIB is my favorite Commander setup and the lone Drone is great defence and deterrant. A solid HQ choice, but overly expensive in 500 points. If you take my advice and make him an 'El, you've got a bunch more points to spend on Moar Gun.

Elites:
2x XV8 Crisis Battlesuits- 144 pts.
Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Targeting Array, Hardwired Multitracker, 1x Team Leader (Shas'vre w/ Stimulant Injectors

Yeah, this doesn't work. First, you can only have one Stimulant Injector per army, so that's illegal. Second, you can't give normal Crisis Suits Hardwired gear, so the build is illegal as well. Finally, you're wasting a bunch of points on the Team Leader for no reason and your points cost is wrong. Two Crisis Suits with Plasma, Missiles and Multitrackers sets you back 124 points. Use that instead for a legal, non-wasteful option. Also, seperate them into two individual units. You'll be happier that way.

Troops:
6x Firewarriors- 60 pts

6x Firewarriors- 60 pts

Fast Attack:
N/A

Heavy Support:
XV88 Broadside Battlesuit- 70 pts

Total- 499 pts

The Broadside needs a support system. Since he's all on his own, I'd suggest a Drone Controller with a Shield Drone or a Targetting Array.

If you make the changes to the Commander and the Crisis Suits I suggested, you'll have 60 points to throw around. Throw a TA at the Broadside and you've got 50 left; increase the size of your Fire Warrior squads to 8 and 9 respectively with the points, unless you can get ahold of a bunch of Kroot to replace the second squad with 16 Kroot and bring the first squad up to 7 (the optimal number for morale purposes).

Interestingly, a well-built Tau army tends to perform extremely well at 500 points, especially in comparison to Marine armies which get little to no choice in what to take. Most opponents won't be able to afford more than 1-2 transport vehicles (if they have any at all), which your Battlesuits will destroy in short order, and your Crisis Suits have an extreme amount of room to maneuvre. No Eldar, DE or BA in your metagame means that the Tau players will have a massive maneuvrability advantage, which you should take full advantage of. Dance around the enemy, blast them and retreat whenever they get close. You don't even have to worry about some Guard player bringing seventy soldiers and just blowing you out of the water with massed firepower.

[Cheesegear]

Been awhile since I got on here so here's what I've got so far for my first SM army so far:

Looking good. Are you going all-Infantry on purpose, or is that just how it turned out?

I made a list of what every Marine army needs.

[Squark]

So... BadgerCloak's army got me thinking... what would a list designed to represent the 2-5th company of a Codex Marines chapter look like? Let's see...

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HQ:
-Captain with Command squad (Can he take a standard bearer and an Apothecary in this squad?)
-Chaplain

Troops
-10x Tactical Squad with Rhino
-10x Tactical Squad with Rhino
-10x Tactical Squad with Rhino
-10x Tactical Squad with Rhino
-10x Tactical Squad with Rhino
-10x Tactical Squad with Rhino

Elites
- Dreadnaught
- Dreadnaught
- ?

Fast Attack
-10x Assault Marine
-10x Assault Marine
- Land Speeder of some kind

Heavy Support
- 10x Devastators in Rhino
- 10x Devastators in Rhino
- Land Raider for the command squad

Obviously, not the most optimal list by any means. On the other hand, I doubt it's a coincidence the force organization chart is deliberately structured to make such a list possible. What adjustments would you guys make to this list to make it more in line with the fluff (Let's say we're making it an Ultramarines Company, just to make this easier)

And, for those of you who actually have the Codex: Space Marines, what are we looking at pointswise for this hypothetical list?

[Cheesegear]

I doubt it's a coincidence the force organization chart is deliberately structured to make such a list possible.

It isn't.
If you ever need to prove that GW loves Marines most, look to the FO Chart. It's built into the very rules of the game that GW loves Marines.

What adjustments would you guys make to this list to make it more in line with the fluff

None, really. It's kind of hard to f* up what's plainly written in the book.

Strictly speaking, Marine Companies aren't allowed to use Land Speeders, at all, ever. Since the rules changed their squadron sizes of 5 (x2 Marines each = 10 Assault Marines) to 3. Meaning Land Speeder Squadrons have six Marines. Which are illegal under the Codex Astartes. Dark Angels can still do it though.

Assault Squads can also ride Bikes.

And, for those of you who actually have the Codex: Space Marines, what are we looking at pointswise for this hypothetical list?

Captain & Command Squad (with Standard ) in Razorback - 270 Points
Chaplain - 100 Points

Tactical Squad in Rhino - 205 Points x6 = 1230 Points
Assault Squad x2 - 380 Points
Devastator Squad in Rhino (full size ) x2 - 410 Points

Total: 2420, minimum. No upgrades except for the Company Standard.
Apocalypse then asks you to tack on 200 points for three Strategic Assets.

[houlio]

Sorry that this isn't on topic as to the current discussion, but I found out today that what I would have preferred to start with, the Tau, are rather weak under the current rules. As much as I wish this wouldn't matter to me, it does, so I'm wondering if any of you playgrounders want to give some advice on a different army. After playing some small games with some friends of Eldar against IG, I find I like the former a good deal. I also like the ork fluff and they seem quite fun, any advice for one over the other and what exactly might be a good start of, say, 500 points-ish for both?

I've read the guide to army selection on the first page for both of them. Currency isn't that much of an issue for me, and both are quite appealing fluff-wise to me and seem to be fun playing either way.

[Cheesegear]

Sorry that this isn't on topic as to the current discussion, but I found out today that what I would have preferred to start with, the Tau, are rather weak under the current rules.

Yes and no. They have a strong list. A list. One. Singular. Any deviation from that one list means failure and the list only works at 1500+ levels. So, it probably isn't the best idea for a brand new army.

After playing some small games with some friends of Eldar against IG, I find I like the former a good deal. I also like the ork fluff and they seem quite fun, any advice for one over the other and what exactly might be a good start of, say, 500 points-ish for both?

Eldar or Orks? Of the two, I'm going to say that Eldar are the stronger list. A lot of Eldar stuff is expensive in points and as such, they don't really work at 500 point levels.

Since, well, you're in luck. 'Cause I have a 500 point tournament up in the next few weeks and I've been writing 500 point lists for nearly every Codex.

Orks - 500 Points

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Big Mek - 85 Points
Kustom Force Field

Lootas (x6) - 90 Points

Boyz (x10) - 110 Points
Shootas, Rokkit Launcha
Nob; Power Klaw, Bosspole

Boyz (x10) - 110 Points
Shootas, Rokkit Launcha
Nob; Power Klaw, Bosspole

Boyz (x10) - 105 Points
Shootas, Rokkit Launcha
Nob; Power Klaw

Eldar - 499 Points

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Farseer - 90 Points
Runes of Warding, Guide

Guardians (x10) - 143 Points
Eldar Missile Launcher
+ Warlock, Singing Spear, Conceal

Guardians (x10) - 133 Points
Eldar Missile Launcher
+ Warlock; Singing Spear, Embolden

Guardians (x10) - 133 Points
Eldar Missile Launcher
+ Warlock; Singing Spear, Embolden

Of the two lists, the Orks seem better, since they get extra Lootas. But, the Eldar have better BS, and even if they do have BS3, using Guide from the Farseer they can re-roll their shots anyway. Also, Ork Rokkits don't have the duality that EMLs do, and, in 500 points, the Pinning-causing EMLs can be invaluable, you kill some dudes, roll a Pin check, they fail and you just take one of their units out of the game. In 500 points, Pinning is far, far better than it is later on.

The Guardian Squads don't have Conceal because they should be in cover anyway, and if your opponent isn't an idiot, he'll be shooting at them trying to force them off an objective where you put them.

If Mech is King, then Gunline is Prince. Eldar can do either fairly well (but not as good as the good ones), while Orks do neither particularly well. Eldar have decent shooty units and Wave Serpents - while expensive - have proper guns.
Orks have one decent shooty unit, and their vehicles are rather terrible.

[houlio]

Thanks, those lists are rather helpful guides. Probably going to try out Eldar based on your recommendation, just because one the big things I liked about Orkz were their silly vehicles.

Would you, or anyone else, recommend getting a wave serpent to start with, since it seems rather necessary based on reading this thread, what with "Mech is King" and all?

[Cheesegear]

Would you, or anyone else, recommend getting a wave serpent to start with, since it seems rather necessary based on reading this thread, what with "Mech is King" and all?

To start with? Probably not. Mech is King because of it's spam-ability. Wave Serpents, are expensive in points and thus, can't be spammed until later in the area of 1250+ or so. So, to start with, a Wave Serpent is not good. Unless you plan on getting Striking Scorpions and Outflanking them every game, and you should only do that if you've also got War Walkers, and you should only have those if you have two Autarchs and...I'll stop there.

In short, don't take Wave Serpents unless you can take a lot of them, which wont really happen 'to start with'.

[Squark]

Thanks, those lists are rather helpful guides. Probably going to try out Eldar based on your recommendation, just because one the big things I liked about Orkz were their silly vehicles.

Would you, or anyone else, recommend getting a wave serpent to start with, since it seems rather necessary based on reading this thread, what with "Mech is King" and all?

Ultimately, you can go Mechanized, or you can go gunline. But mixing the two seldom ends well. So, take a lot of vehicles, or don't take many at all (At 500 points, probably not any).

I'm more of a gunline player myself (In no small part due to the fact that when I started out, there was no such thing as Mechanized Necrons, and I'm still skeptical about how effective such an army would be, without massive numbers of converted Night Scythes and Doom Scythes). But ultimately, go with what seems cooler to you.

[TechnoScrabble]

Orks are fun to play and fun to paint, but if you paint orks, you'll get so used to the ork method (****ton of washes and experimentation) that your models from other armies may be harder for you to paint.
Everyone whines about Ork statlines, and I agree that on paper they suck, but the only times I've lost as Orks was:
Twice VS very good Imperial Guard Player
Twice VS same guy playing his own Orks
Once VS Blood Angels that had been amusingly badly painted (Why did they have to be so GOL DAMNED PINK!?!?!?)

Though I do get more draws than I have any right to be getting and I've only played in two GW tourneys.

One fun tactic in larger point, more round games, get a trukk with some upgrades to make it fast and survivable, put some tankbustas in the trukk as soon as possible, and drive around chewing up any armored enemies. Ork aim sucks, but those rokkit launchas have a wonderful tendency to make spehss mehreens cry.

[Cheesegear]

So, a whole lot of new Tyranids came out, and now a few people are willing to give them a shot since you no longer need massive amounts of cash and conversion/green stuff skills to use two kits to make one model. And, even before now a lot of people have taken to playing Tyranids because they look cool and end up screwing around and taking all the wrong things. So, what's good?

Special Rules:

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Synapse: If you plan on playing the horde style of Tyranids which most people are going to play, this is excellent as units of 24+ models aren't going to just up and bail (on their Ld 6) because a couple of Bolters got fired at them. More importantly, anything within Synapse range automatically regroups. Also gets rid of Instinctive Behaviour (below) which is good.

Shadow in the Warp: Nearly always useful to some degree.

Instinctive Behaviour: Annoying. Nearly all non-Synapse units are going to have to be babysat. Especially those that Feed. Lurk isn't as bad. But Feed = Rage and you can't shoot weapons. Terrible. Everything else with Rage is allowed to shoot. But not Tyranids.

HQ:

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Hive Tyrant: He's expensive. Often comes at the same cost as a fully-tooled HQ of other armies, except bear in mind that most other armies don't fully kit out their HQ. One of the most important things about this guy, when building him, is make absolutely certain to keep him cheap, otherwise he will go out of control - the bad way.

Scything Talons; Get a free pair. At WS8 you only end up re-rolling 50% of your misses. Scything Talons aren't that much of a big deal. Helpful, but completely ignorable.
Lash Whip and Bonesword; You have the option of swapping these out for Scything Talons. Never do this. Going first is always better. Especially with I6 Force Weapon Grey Knights running around, Mephiston, Wraiths (who do the same thing, but striking simultaneously is better than last). The only reason you should swap these out is if you plan on upgrading both sets of Talons to ranged weapons and investing in Tyrant Guard - which isn't a bad idea.
TL-Deathspitters; You shouldn't need them. Not at what they cost anyway.
TL-Devourers; Not even close to being worth it. Get more Termagants.
Stranglethorn Cannon; S6 Pinning is nice, but not worth it. Ignore for...
H. Venom Cannon; Upgrade to pretty much every time. Mech is King and Tyranids have few ways of dealing with it. The only issue with the HVC is that MCs can shoot two weapons per turn, and Tyrants don't really have any other weapon options that synergise with the HVC which can be annoying at times.

Hive Commander; Generally a solid choice. A unit of Troops can Outflank. And while alive you can manipulate the Reserve roll. Bear in mind that he doesn't even need to be on the board for this to work. He can manipulate his own roll!
Indescribable Horror; Leadership checks are fairly easy to pass, and it doesn't work on Fearless units. Ignore this.
Old Adversary; 'Preferred Enemy (Everything!)' was around long before the Necrons Codex. The only trouble is, nearly everything that this ability is good for, already has Scything Talons. Even if you do base your army around this one ability, you still wont even need it.

Adrenal Glands; Being S6 with a Lash Whip, you should rarely need this.
Toxin Sacs; Can be useful.
Acid Blood; No.
Implant Attack; No. See the Bonesword?
Toxic Miasma; No.
Regeneration; Maybe. Depends if you've got spare points. See Leech Essence (below).

Thorax Swarm; All of them are mostly bad. Definitely not worth the points. Nor the 'slot'.
Armoured Shell; Sometimes worth it. You don't have an Invulnerable and you can save against Krak Missiles which are all over the place these days.
Wings; Exceptionally expensive, and if you've got Wings you probably want to be in combat, and you can't have Armoured Shell when you do that which means you're relying on your T6 which doesn't always work. Costs as much as a Tyrant Guard. More Wounds is better than Wings.

The Horror; Pretty bad. See Horror before.
Leech Essence; Very good. Your Hive Tyrant is going to get shot at and this gives a chance to regain lost wounds which is very helpful - and unlike Regeneration, it's free!
Paroxysm; Very good. You barely even need Scything Talons anymore. It targets the entire unit - which includes ICs attached to said unit.
Psychic Scream; Forcing Leadership checks isn't scary. Horrors don't really do anything.

+ Tyrant Guard; Nearly always take at least one of these guys if you don't have Wings. And definitely always take them if you have neither Wings nor a Lash Whip and make sure you pay points so that one (or all) of the Tyrant Guard does.

Summary; Below Average. He's exceptionally expensive, doesn't have an Invulnerable, can't join units and is a rather large model which makes it hard to keep him out of LoS so he doesn't get shot at. The only way to keep him alive is to invest in Tyrant Guard which basically function as extra wounds and more attacks in Assault. Basically, if you find yourself paying 275 points plus for a Hive Tyrant, you're better off with...

Swarmlord: Take a Hive Tyrant, give him more wounds, a better Initiative, all the Psychic Powers and can use two of them per turn. A weird version of Hive Commander and a focused version of Old Adversary.

Bone Sabres; Eats Hammernators for breakfast, and if paired with Tyrant Guard, he'll eat Mephiston too.
Blade Parry; Invulnerables are good. It's a shame that it's in Assault only. You should probably invest in those Tyrant Guard again so you can get there.
Psychic Monstrosity, Swarm Leader; Yeah. Really good.
Alien Cunning; Reserve manipulation is always a plus. For his secondary bonus, however, the unit has to already be Outflanking. Which means it only works for Genestealers, or you have to be investing in another Hive Tyrant which makes your army very costly when it comes to two models.

Summary; Par with Hive Tyrant (Below Average). He loses access to Heavy Venom Cannons and Hive Commander is better than Alien Cunning. But, having an Invulnerable as well as those Bone Sabres can make a right mess of things. His increase Synapse range and Swarm Leader are also fairly incredible. Unlike a Hive Tyrant where Tyrant Guard are merely a good idea, though. Tyrant Guard for Swarmlord is pretty much mandatory, and most of the time, that means keeping him in a box until 1750+ games come around.

Tervigon: Where Hive Tyrants and Swarmlord generally want you fielding anything except Termagants in your Troops slots; Tervigons want you to be fielding nothing but Termagants in your Troops slots. The more Termagants in your army, the better and more cost-effective your Tervigons are going to be.

Scything Talons; Always take. If you have to take an option and neither option is particularly good, make it the cheaper one. Yes. You do have to take Sycthing Talons, or...
Crushing Claws; You're I1 anyway. But it's not worth the points for a random amount of attacks that you're probably never going to use.

Toxin Saces; Always take.
Adrenal Glades; Always take. In case you've missed it; a Tervigon is 185 points base.
Implant Attack; No.
Toxic Miasma; Maybe. A Tervigon does not want to be in combat, ever. And this helps end them quicker.
Regeneration; Optional. A Tervigon doesn't want to die, because when he dies, he also kills a bunch of Termagants. Sometimes worth the points, sometimes not. You can always just keep your Tervigon out of LoS. Better on a Tervigon in your Troops slot, since not dying on an objective is fun.

Stinger Salvo/Cluster Spines; The Stinger Salvo is better.

Catalyst; Paying more than 5 points for a Psychic Power sucks (yes, even you Eldar), but Catalyst is a very good one. Especially since it can be used on anything (including a Hive Tyrant - Krak Missiles are not AP2 and they wont be causing Instant Death).
Onslaught; Except in the most dire of circumstances, you'll probably never use this power. Especially for the points that you pay for it it's a pretty big rip. You'll nearly always find a use for Catalyst. Onslaught? Not so much.

Summary; Cheaper than a Hive Tyrant which is a plus. However, also not really as good. Not as able in Assault and doesn't have access to any decent ranged weapons at all. It's sole use is for pumping out Termagants (don't get me wrong, it's very good) and giving FNP to stuff. It's always better to have these guys in your Troops slots than in your HQ slots - just in case you want something else.

If pumping out Termagants doesn't appeal to you (you'll need a lot of extra models that don't even count towards your points allocation), then don't take Tervigons.

Tyranid Prime: This guy is the cheapest HQ you're going to get. And, in addition to his ability to join units, he's not a bad one either.

Scything Talons; I prefer better hits to more hits.
Rending Claws; For five points, Rending is better than zero...
Boneswords; For double, take Power Weapons that can cause Instant Death...
Lash Whip and Bonesword; Best choice. Most points. Going first is always better and you get to keep your Power Weapon.

Devourer; You will never need this. Always upgrade to...
Rending Claws; For free, they're actually pretty good.
Spinefists; No.
Deathspitter; You shouldn't need it.
Scything Talons; It's these or Rending Claws. Depends if you want duality or not.

Adrenal Glands; Having this and Rending Claws actually gives you a chance to bust open vechicles, and Walkers often cause serious problems for non-Monstrous Creature Tyranids (unlike Marines who all get Grenades for free...). Why do you need a Power Weapon that Rends? Vehicles. It always comes back to Mech is King.
Toxin Sacs; Decent, but not as good as Adrenal Glands. Why not have both? Because that's expensive. Pick one or the other. Toxin Sacs mow Infantry especially if you've left your Scything Talons on, Adrenal Glands help you Assault vehicles. Hint; What hurts Tyranids more?
Regeneration; If you've put him in a unit of Tyranid Warriors, you'll almost always be allocating a S8/9 shot to this guy. And Regen keeps him around for longer. Considering it's points cost, it's not a bad investment.

Summary; Decent. Even at his most expensive, he scratches 130 points. However, he doesn't have an Invulnerable so he needs that Lash Whip if he wants to run toe-to-toe with an opposing IC. Unlike Tervigons and Tyrants, he can actually join units and get cover saves easy-ish. While it's a good idea to run him with Warriors, he also does perfectly fine 'hidden' inside units of Termagants or Hormagaunts (which often move outside Synapse range 'by accident). Definitely is a steal in low point games.

Parasite of Mortrex: Take the most expensive Prime, take away all his good options, fiddle with his Weapon Skill and Toughness (what was so broken about T5!?), give him a weird unit generation rule and give him Wings. Sound good? No.

Fiddling with a Prime's T5 is a terrible idea. Now Parasite will eat Krak Missiles in the face and 'hidden' Power Fists are going to ruin him. I6 is okay. But T4 is not okay. Especially when the guy above has T5.

Basically this guy functions like a Tervigon - but for Rippers. Rippers are not good, Swarms aren't Scoring and it's hard to generate them. You have to get in combat, you have to cause casualties (S6 Rending isn't that bad, though, and on those Rends he causes Instant Death), but your opponent needs to fail a test.

Summary; Kind of bad. Not as killy as a real Prime, and also not as durable. Rippers are crap and he costs too many points. IMO he should cost 135 points or so. Take a Prime, Rending Claws (free), Implant Attack (10 Points), and add Wings (25 points) then add whatever you think Ripper generation is worth, keeping in mind you're losing the Alpha Warrior rule.


Sad, but truth. Tyranids don't really have any good HQs. Or, rather, they can become good, but only if your army also contains X, Y and/or Z and the points limit favours your army build.

Elites

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Hive Guard (Lurk): Always a solid choice. Having T6 and 2 Wounds each, they actually do basically count as 2 Missile Launchers for 50 points apiece. Lurk means they don't totally suck when they leave Synapse because you do actually want them shooting their ranged weapons as often as they can. Pretty much one of the better choices regardless of army build and points limit.

Lictor (Lurk): Ew. Chameleonic Skin would be okay, if Pheramone Trail applied to itself, but it doesn't. Which means you need Hive Commanders or Swarmlord to stack, and if you're going to be doing that, well, you've already got a Hive Commander or Swarmlord to do the Reserve manipulation already instead. S6 Rending Flesh Hooks would be okay, if it wasn't AP- and the Lictor wasn't BS3. Flesh Hooks are not a Demo Charge. Lictors are not Marbo. Given that Lictors will almost always be deployed outside Synapse, 'Lurking' is exactly what Lictors don't want to be doing. Unless you plan on investing heavily in Mycetic Spores, Lictors are otherwise terrible.

Deathleaper (Lurk): Coming at the cost of two and bit Lictors, this guy comes with all the downsides of normal Lictors (which is a lot), but doesn't have the extra wounds that two Lictors would have. Ultimately, you're paying a whole lot of points to reduce an enemy ICs Leadership by D3 (roll a '1'). It can be okay when facing Librarians, but it isn't so much an issue when you already have Shadow in the Warp. Basically just as terrible as a Lictor, except you're paying for two and half of them which you wouldn't normally do anyway.

Venomthropes (Feed): It all depends on how many units you plan to have, and how much natural cover is available for your shooty units and whether or not you plan to run anything expensive (i.e; Warriors) up the board. Warriors are one of the main units that will benefit from this guy, but, so will your Monstrous Creatures, who, without 2+ saves, nor Invulnerables generally need all the help they can get. Keep in mind that Venomthropes are a pain in the arse for your opponent and they probably will end up targeting it - a lot. To that end, it's often helpful to keep them out of LoS (their cloud still works), or to walk them behind Monstrous Creatures (Carnifii and Hive Tyrants love Venomthropes). If anything, a Venomthrope should always have a 4+ cover save by being behind another unit. Good unit. But only if you need it. Feeding shouldn't usually be a problem since the things that most need Cover Saves (who the Venomthropes should be babysitting) nearly all have Synapse.

Zoanthropes: Note the Synapse. The difference between these guys and Hive Guard is +10 points for less toughness, and needing LoS to shoot (and, in return, being in opposing LoS). Warp Lance is okay, Warp Blast isn't that great. The other problem being the problem that all psychic shooting attacks have; Roll test. Roll To Hit. Instead of just rolling To Hit straight up (Hive Guard). The other thing to note is that both Lance and Blast are within range of Psychic Hoods which generally screw over every single Zoanthrope ever, and Runes of Warding are even worse. They can be decent in a Mycetic Spore, but, Zoanthropes are surprisingly fragile given their 3+ Invulnerable, and using a Mycetic Spore usually just drops them in the middle of your opponent's formation. So I hope your incredibly difficult powers go off...Even though you could pay less points for more durability and reliability...

Zoanthropes hit hard and die easily. Hive Guard hit reasonably and don't die easily for less points. Nearly everyone prefers Hive Guard because in the current meta Psychic Hoods are basically standard. And Hive Guard ignore Cover which is basically awesome on toast.

Doom of Malan'tai (Feed): Half again the cost of a Zoanthrope. Spirit Leech and Absorb Life are fine. Except they aren't. Spirit Leech allows cover saves, and doesn't work at all against anything in a vehicle (even Open-Topped ones), which, sadly, is the majority of the meta-game. Malan'tai must be in a Mycetic Spore, otherwise your opponent will piss themselves and aim everything at Malan'tai, that'll happen anyway once you land, but it's better than losing him on the first turn and not doing anything. Most of the time, Spirit Leech will happen once, so it had better count. Cataclysm is decent, but, remember that you're using a Mycetic Spore (right?) and Malan'tai is not Synapse (if I had 5c everytime someone assumed that he did...I'd have like, a dollar), which means if he fails his check (Ld10, thankfully) he can't use Cataclysm because he'll be affected by totally-stupid-Tyranid-version of Rage where he can't shoot.
Glass Cannon. And Glass Cannons are not good.

Pyrovores (Feed): Just bad. None of the Tyranid players I speak to have ever found a use for them (3 in a Mycetic Spore seems to be the only choice, and it still isn't a good one). And this author has never found them particularly threatening. Feel free to totally ignore. Due to having halfway decent ranged weapons and being absolutely mediocre in Assault, Feed is generally annoying.

Ymgarl Genestealers: I'm yet to hear anyone say that these guys are anywhere even close to being not useful. Certainly, they're not for every Tyranid army, but they're still pretty amazing. Again, these guys have the problem of being mandatory Reserves, meaning that you really need to take Hivemander or Swarmlord for them to be better than they otherwise are (waiting 'til Turn 5 for Reserves is just terrible), and that's not necessarily a bad thing, mind. Just something to think about. When they come out, it's probably best to use the Toughness on the turn they come out, that way they win less (they should never, ever, ever lose combat) and don't completely wipe out the unit they Assault just to be shot at in your opponent's next turn. S5 Rending is also okay against Vehicles and unlike regular Genestealers, their 4+ save means they aren't insta-gibbed by ubiquitous Bolters. Despite being 'named', Ymgarls aren't even Unique.


Ultimately, Zoanthropes and Hive Guard fill the same role. You don't need both. Hive Guard are cheaper and live longer if I haven't made that absolutely clear yet. Venomthropes are for when you play with particularly expensive Monstrous Creatures (like groups of Carnifii) or bricks of Warriors that you absolutely want to get in combat / not die, Venomthropes are also 'better' when you play in a meta with less terrain than you probably should have. Ymgarls will always have a place in any army - if you want them.

Troops

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Warriors: Probably the most misused - and therefore misunderstood - units in the entire Codex. Warriors are one of the single-most brutal units in the game, even before upgrades. Since Paladins hit the game, a lot of people try and make Paladin lists with their own Codex - to varying results - and Warriors are actually one of the better expys. Keep in mind that Warriors are Fearless, and walk around hampering Psychic Powers like bosses.

The issue with Warriors is that they often don't get where they need to be. To that end, you actually need to set your army up for them.

Hive Commander; Allows them to Outflank so they don't get brutalised.
Trygon; Allows the Warriors to pop up in your enemy's DZ, but, the Trygon first has to enter play, and Trygons are not exceptionally good anyway.
Venomthrope; If you plan to walk them up the board, basically mandatory.
Mycetic Spore; Drop your Warriors into your enemy's DZ. But Outflanking is way better.

At bare minimum, you'll need Venomthropes, or, walk them behind Carnifex Broods. Carnifex Broods get a bad wrap from most people. But they're just misunderstood like Warriors. Warriors also like - very much - to be given Feel No Pain by a Tervigon.

Scything Talons: Completely irrelevant if you have a Hive Tyrant with Old Adversary (if you want to play that way), but that generally means walking up the board with a Venomthrope or three. Certainly a good standard being that you're WS5. Being joined by a Prime (which means you don't have Old Adversary, so keep the Talons) can bump it up to WS6 to be really not fair.
Rending Claws: Not worth giving up your Talons for, not for 5 points.
Boneswords: Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. This guide was written with the inspiration that Tyranids finally got their second wave models. And Bonesword conversion packs were part of that wave. Rejoice. Unfortunately, the weren't made part of the Warrior box like they should've been this entire time.
Bonesword and Lash Whip: Very rarely should you need to shut down more than one model (and those scary Power Fists are already I1), and your Prime can do that. However, Tyranid Warriors are deathly afraid of Instant Death effects - especially if they go first - and to walk up to a unit of Purifiers and slap their Force Halberds aside and say "NO!" never gets old. Warriors with Lash Whips can mess up Grey Knights in a serious way. Just watch out for those Psycannons - they'll rip you a new one. If your meta isn't lousy with Knights (not the Warband kind, the proper Knights), then you'll be fine with Boneswords.

Devourers: You never need these. Not even shooty warriors want these, not really. If you really feel you need Devourers, take Termagants.
Rending Claws: If you're in combat, you need these. Otherwise a Walker will roflstomp you all day. Scything Talons and Rending Claws is an incredibly cheap and effective option (use Hive Commander). Seriously, all you lose is the Devourer.
Spinefists: Lose a point of strength. Gain AP5 (better than AP- by a long shot), and get Twin-Linked. Not a terrible trade, if not for the fact that you also lose 6" of range. If you need to get rid of Infantry, seriously. You're Warriors. Assault them and mess up their day.
Deathspitters: If you're in a Mycetic Spore, or need strong back-line Troops that don't die, take these. Only 5 points. Why would you not? And then swap your Scything Talons for Rending Claws.
Scything Talons: If you want two sets of Scything Talons, stop, take an Old Adversary instead, and sit in the corner and think about what you've done. There are few - if any - reasons why you'd want a pair of Talons over the Claws.

Neither Barbed Stranglers or Venom Cannons immediately jump out as being better than the other, since they do other things. I know, I know, vehicles are a problem for 'Nids. But S6 isn't anything to write home about. Take one or the other. It probably wont make that much of a difference, but you should have one of them.

Adrenal Glands: If you have Lash Whips, not necessary. If you don't, Boneswords + Adrenal Glands is the same cost and very effective. Very.
Toxin Sacs: You mean you have a hard time cutting through T3 models with Boneswords? Or do you mean that you're fighting T5+ stuff and don't have a boatload of Rending Claw attacks? At which point did you fail so hard that Toxin Sacs looked like a good idea?

Tyranid Warriors are an extremely solid choice. Even though they're actually quite large, they're still not Monstrous Creatures. Put 10 Termagants in front and get a 4+ Cover Save (in fact, according to the fluff, that's what Termagants are for, going ahead of Warriors) and casually walk up the board. Or just have three Carnifii in front and block LoS (the Warriors act as Synapse). If you aren't totally stupid, a Warrior costs 50 points tops, which is less than an un-upgraded Paladin. And Paladins are never not upgraded.

Remember, you've only got a 4+ save and Warriors are highly vulnerable to S8 weapons (Missile Fangs are terrifying for them). Either don't be on the board (Spore/Outflank...Or Trygon ), or have a 50-point Cover Save. Not having Assault Grenades should usually be offset by the fact that each model has three wounds - usually. And Lash Whips fixes that problem immedaitely. Adrenal Glands...Do not.

Genestealers: In short; Have lots or none. And by that I mean multiple Broods, not 20 in one Brood. You should never - ever - need more than 11 in one Brood.

Long form; Always take the Swarmlord. Always Outflank your Genestealers. All of them. Genestealers walk around with S4 Rending Claws as base, which means they have the same chance as ripping a vehicle in half as Warriors. But they have less attacks. But, if you can come off the Outflank and immediately Assault a vehicle, there shouldn't be too much left. The only problem being that you can't Assault whatever comes out if the vehicle is also a Transport - which is problematic. Hope you brought Heavy Vennom Cannons for that.

Scything Talons: 2 points isn't a big deal. Do it.
Adrenal Glads: 3 points isn't a big deal either.
Toxin Sacs: 22 points per Genestealer is getting pretty expensive. You don't need Toxin Sacs, but they're not bad either.

Always take Broodlords. Non-Independent HQ-level Characters rule.

Termagants (Lurk)*: There are two ways to use Termagants. Or, rather three. But in that extra way, you aren't actually using Termagants.

1. 50-point Cover Saves for your non-Monstrous Creatures who want to walk up the board. Have as many or as little as you think you need. Take Adrenal Glands or Toxin Sacs as needed. Don't upgrade any further. You're a cover save. Nothing more. Anything that Termagants do except die is a bonus, and that only happens if you're opponent only shoots whatever is behind the Termagants, and if that happens, aren't you glad for the 4+ Cover Save?

2. Devourers. Lots and lots of Devourers. Put a Synapse near them, and have a Fearless-shooty-death unit on an objective. If you think you need Adrenal Glands and Toxin Sacs on these Devourer-Gants, take Warriors instead.

*3. Tervigons-as-Troops: Take minimum-size squads, do not upgrade. Take Tervigons who carry the upgrades for them. If you play in a Mech-heavy environment, or people have more Lascannons and Plasma/Melta weapons in their army than you have digits (an Autolas Predator is 2, a Plaserback is 2 - not counting the Melta inside), this particular army build falls to crap very quickly. Your Tervigons will be exploding every turn, taking with them a whole lot of Gants.
Tervigons and Gants have no way of dealing with vehicles. No matter how many Gants you spawn, 10bil x 0 = 0. Unless you're Assaulting with Adrenal Glands trying to Glance RA10. And that means your Tervigons had to walk up behind probably not in cover getting shot at - a lot. So I don't actually think that actually happened in a competitive environment.

Hormagaunts (Feed): Basically that first kind of Termagants, except they can't do anything as they walk up the board, except they 'walk' very, very fast (and run out of Synapse range all too often, but then Feed with no ranged weapons, so it's okay). They need either Toxin Sacs or Adrenal Glands. One or the other. Adrenal Glands are better when Outflanking, Toxin Sacs when not. If you do feel like paying 10 points per Hormagaunt, take Warriors instead.

Ripper Swarms: No. They don't Score. They don't provide Cover Saves and each base costs as much as a Termagant with a Devourer - which you would be better off with, because they Score in the back. If you do feel like taking Rippers (because they were free in your other boxes and you need to make points up somehow and instead of buying Regeneration for your Hive Tyrant you take three Ripper bases), Toxin Sacs are really the only worthwhile upgrade...If you took Rippers...

Fast Attack:

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Shrikes: Despite what Piccolo of Dragonball says; you can't trade power for speed. Like Xykon of The Order of the Stick says; The only power that matters, is power. Tyranid Shrikes gain Wings (a 12" move speed), and they lose a point of armour. Which now means your super-expensive multi-wound models now don't get a save against Bolters. This is bad. Shrikes still eat S8 to the face too.

But, wait, there's more; You pay extra points, you don't Score, you aren't Troops so don't apply for Hivemander Outflank, and you aren't Infantry so can't come in behind a Trygon (like you'd want to?), and did I mention that you're paying extra points for the same models that don't score?

So, what to do? Well, you're Jump Infantry, so that means you can Deep Strike. That's okay. If Shrikes didn't have to come in massive Broods (at least 6) and have the big bases for extra space to catch terrain/enemy models for mishaps. Just take Deathspitters.

Your other option is Hormagaunts and using them as Cover Saves (like Warriors do with Termagants). If your opponent is nice enough to allow your Fleet moves at the same time as your Move moves, then just make sure you keep your Shrikes behind your Gaunts (even if your Hormagaunts move 8" - and not 12" like your Wings can - you still don't go in front. You. Will. Die. To. Bolters.). If your opponent follows the rules and wants you to stall the game while you move once then move again, then it's a little trickier. But Gaunts should hopefully be moving ~11" a turn.

Biomorphs are the same as Warriors. In fact, take Warriors instead?

Raveners: Take Shrikes instead. Being Beasts is really, really bad, and you don't have Synapse and Shadow. End.

Sky-Slashers: Rippers with Wings. Take Hormagaunts instead.

Gargoyles: Kind of really good. Most Tyranid armies should have at least a unit of 10-16. They're huge models which means Cover Saves for everyone - even MCs. They're also not actually that bad in Assault either.

Harpies: It's T5, which is a bit crappy for a Monstrous Creature which means in can be Instant Death'd. Not easily, but it can.

Stranglethorn Cannon: Not if you have the option of...
Heavy Venom Cannon: A Harpy is 170 points. It's Twin-Linked too!

Cluster Spines/Stinger Salvo: Stinger Salvo has an AP. Think about it.

Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs: A Harpy doesn't want to be in Assault. It's got a Heavy Venom Cannon, it should be shooting it. Since you can move 12" a turn, you should be able to direct - with some degree of reliability - how and when you get into Assault - if at all.
Regeneration: Handy when you need it. Although if you have spare points at the end of your list, giving Regeneration to your Hive Tyrant and/or Troop-Tervigons should take priority. Better in every way than a Ripper base.

Harpies bring Heavy Venom Cannons to the table. Twin-Linked! The new Hive Tyrant box comes with a set of Wings which you aren't going to use when you make your HVC Hive Tyrant(s) and Swarmlord because you're using Tyrant Guard and/or a better Armour Save, right? So, yeah. You know what to do.

Spore Mines: If you're in the 'casual' meta-game, which is all Infantry, all the time. Maybe a few vehicles - maybe. Then Spore Mines often win the game before the game even starts. Drop 12 or so of them into your opponent's DZ before he even gets to deploy and they can't really put their models anywhere else they start blowing up. Good times. Also very handy for Infiltration denial as your opponent can't put his stuff within 12/18" of them. Sometimes you want to Infiltrate into your own DZ (it happens a fair bit, too), and having Spore Mines in their DZ means they can't even put their Infiltrators in their own DZ because there are enemy models within 18", and they can't put them in the middle because that's near your DZ and all of a sudden, Infiltrators have to Outflank or go in Reserve because they can't legally be put on the board if their owner declared them as Infiltrating because their Deployment Phase is over. So they have to Infiltrate...Off the board...lol.

Heavy Supprt:

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Carnifex Brood (Feed): Similar to Warriors, these guys are nearly always misused, and therefore very misunderstood when it comes to their abilities. S9 is all well and good, but that I1 is incredibly bad. If you don't have an Invulnerable Save, you shouldn't be in Assault. They are Fearless, which is kind of helpful, but they still aren't Synapse. If you really wanted to, you can join a Prime to the unit - yes, even if you only have one Carnifex, he still counts as a 'unit'.

Crushing Claws: No. Don't pay points for these. Even if you do get into combat, if you can't do it with 4(+1) Monstrous Creature attacks, you're in the wrong combat.
Deathspitter, Devourers: Paying 175 Points to be the equivalent of 4 Termagants, or one Warrior isn't my idea of efficient.

Stranglethorn Cannon: As we've seen before, always ignore for...
Heavy Venom Cannon: Anything in the 'dex that can take these things, should be taking them, no exceptions. Remember, if this guy fails his IB check (Ld7), he can't shoot. Which is why being babysat by a Prime is kind of a good idea. Kind of.

Frag Spines: Only ever take if you also take...
Adrenal Glands: Taking these means that you're trying to be in Assault, I hope you didn't pick up Crushing Claws to go last instead of I4. And that's only if you initiate. If your opponent initiates against your Carnfiex, he's probably got a plan, and it isn't going to end well for you.
Toxin Sacs: Meh. I wouldn't go spending points on it if I didn't have to. But, if you are building Combatifex, re-rolls To Hit with your Talons (What happened to Old Adversary Hive Tyrant?) then re-rolls To Wound with your Toxins is alright, I guess. But I hope you've taken the previous upgrades too.
Bio-Plasma: Unlike Hive Tyrants, Carnifexes actually have a second weapon that synergises with the Heavy Venom Cannon, and - for Tyranids, at least - it's a valuable source of AP2. Take it even if running an Assault Carnifex.
Regeneration: Probably not worth it.

A Carnifex shouldn't really be in Assault. The Heavy Hitters of today's game (Sanguinary Guard, GKs with Halberds, Hammernators) will stomp it with ease. That said, even if you do take a Heavy Venom Cannon, that doesn't stop you from being a Monstrous Creature. So, if there is an opportunity for an Assault - which you can win, say, against Guardsmen - then you can go for it. HVC and Bio-Plasma is great, both ignore FNP.

That said, a Harpy costs about the same but isn't as effective in Assault. And can fly.

Old One Eye: No. Take a Trygon Prime or a Tyrannofex instead. I wont say any more on the matter. He's over-costed and he's bad. Which makes him double bad. Bad, bad.

Biovores (Lurk): These things are great when your opponent hasn't Meched-up like a boss. If your meta-game knows what they're doing, these become very useless, very quickly. If they don't...Well, even when Biovores miss, they hit.

Trygon (Feed): The Trygon, oh, the Trygon. It's alright. I mean, it isn't bad. But it's competing for slots with the less expensive, more effective Carnifex, and the more expensive, more effective Tyrannofex. Don't bother with any of the upgrades, you've either got Assault in the bag as it is, or your opponent is unloading so many shots into you having Regeneration wont even matter.

Opinions are divided on whether to Deep Strike it or not. It'll take a minimum three turns to be in Assault - that's minimum, remember. Wheras if you don't Deep Strike, you will be in Assault on Turn 2. The difference is how much you get shot at. You can use a Venomthrope to give Cover Saves, you can use another MC for Cover Save (Tyrant with Guard), etc.

+ Prime: A 40-point upgrade to upgrade your gun, and to give Synapse and Shadow. Instinctive Behaviour doesn't matter on a Trygon since Feed is what he wants to be doing and his gun isn't that important that you should care whether he fires it or not. Being a Prime is usually not worth it, and you'd probably be better off getting the other upgrades. Adrenal Glands couldn't hurt.

Mawloc: If you really want an Assault Carnifex, take one of these instead. Where possible, don't start him in Reserve. If he begins the game on the board and Burrows in Turn 1, he is guarenteed to come on next turn. Wheras otherwise, he is not, and you'll have to take steps to make that happen. Like Hive Commander or Swarmlord. Another source of AP2 which is immensely helpful, but a Carnifex has an HVC. Carnifexes are really, really good in the Heavy Support slot (if you aren't using the points for Harpies).

Tyrannofex (Lurk): Rupture Cannon always. Stinger Salvo same as the others. And Electroshock Grubs is probably the best Thorax slot. Regeneration optional. Never take the other upgrades. Where points allow, you should alternate between Carnifexes and Tyrannofexes. Tyrannofexes are better than Carnifexes, but two Carnifexes are better than one Tyrannofex. Again, it has to do with how many points you have to play around with.

One Carnifex.
If you have the points, swap for a Tyrannofex.
If you have the points, swap for two Carnifexes.
If you have the points, swap for two Tyrannofexes.
If you have the points, swap for three Carnifexes.
If you have the points, swap for three Tyrannofexes.

Once you're at 4+ Carnifexes (2+1+1), you don't really need Tyrannofexes anymore.

[Elite_Lurker]

Okay, a Tau list to comment on. Let's take a look.

First, he's illegal. If you have a Vectored Retro-thruster, you can't have Drones. So just drop the Thruster and you're good to go. He's an okay damage dank, but a little pricey for my tastes even with the VRT gone. Consider making him a Shas'el and giving him a Targetting Array to save you some more points. Also, your points are incorrect. As-is, he's 150 points. Without the VRT, he's 140. Otherwise, Plas/CIB is my favorite Commander setup and the lone Drone is great defence and deterrant. A solid HQ choice, but overly expensive in 500 points. If you take my advice and make him an 'El, you've got a bunch more points to spend on Moar Gun.


Yeah, this doesn't work. First, you can only have one Stimulant Injector per army, so that's illegal. Second, you can't give normal Crisis Suits Hardwired gear, so the build is illegal as well. Finally, you're wasting a bunch of points on the Team Leader for no reason and your points cost is wrong. Two Crisis Suits with Plasma, Missiles and Multitrackers sets you back 124 points. Use that instead for a legal, non-wasteful option. Also, seperate them into two individual units. You'll be happier that way.


The Broadside needs a support system. Since he's all on his own, I'd suggest a Drone Controller with a Shield Drone or a Targetting Array.

If you make the changes to the Commander and the Crisis Suits I suggested, you'll have 60 points to throw around. Throw a TA at the Broadside and you've got 50 left; increase the size of your Fire Warrior squads to 8 and 9 respectively with the points, unless you can get ahold of a bunch of Kroot to replace the second squad with 16 Kroot and bring the first squad up to 7 (the optimal number for morale purposes).

Interestingly, a well-built Tau army tends to perform extremely well at 500 points, especially in comparison to Marine armies which get little to no choice in what to take. Most opponents won't be able to afford more than 1-2 transport vehicles (if they have any at all), which your Battlesuits will destroy in short order, and your Crisis Suits have an extreme amount of room to maneuvre. No Eldar, DE or BA in your metagame means that the Tau players will have a massive maneuvrability advantage, which you should take full advantage of. Dance around the enemy, blast them and retreat whenever they get close. You don't even have to worry about some Guard player bringing seventy soldiers and just blowing you out of the water with massed firepower.

Thanks for the advice. I was half-asleep when I made the list, so that's probably the cause of most of the errors. I ran the list with the changes you suggested yesterday against a Grey Knights player, and it did quite well. We were playing a casual game of Annihalation, except to win, you had to kill all your opponent's units. I won with my 2 Crisises (One had taken a wound), 8 FWs, and the Broadside remaining. Thanks again for the help. I'm looking forward to fielding this.

[Tome]

Got a chance to try out the list I posted earlier.

I was up against a Pedro Kantor list on Annihilation and Dawn of War. I won 6 kill points to 1.

The Vindicare, Dreadnoughts and Terminators performed as they usually do - which is to say, very well.

Incidentally, guess how many GK Termies it takes to kill a full unit of ten Vanguard kitted out with power weapons? Two, with Psychotrokes. Seriously, I love those things. Definitely keeping them.

The Psyker squads performed brilliantly for their cost, killing tanks and marines in quantity - including Kantor, once they'd evaporated his Sternguard escort. Failed to get the power off a couple of times, but luckily didn't Perils. I'll give them a few more games to check, but they definitely seem worth it.

So far it seems like the list is working well. I'll have to give them a try against a different army next time.

[Hootman]

[...]Pedro Kantor[...]
[...]a full unit of ten Vanguard[...]

...What was your opponent thinking? o.O That's like 400 points that they didn't spend on Sternguard. Or any units that are actually good for Codex Marines to field (based on my experience, anyways).

I do not mean to undermine your victory, and the performance of your Psycho-Terminators WAS very impressive, but...what the hell, Opponent.

[Cheesegear]

Due to totally forseen circumstances, it looks like I'm going to have to drop out of next weekend's tournament. I can not get 40 models 3-coloured-and-based by next Saturday.

Sigh. Cancel that. TO was woefully unclear (aren't they always?) and all I really need is an under/base coat but then I get 0s and 1s for painting. But, since you guys know me you know the only things I care about are Sportsmanship and Battle and playing the game.
So it's all good.