wizard doing it all DM help

[CMagnum]

In the red hand of doom 3.5 campaign I am running we have a seven person party consisting of a rogue, a fighter, barbarian, wizard, monk, bard and cleric. I am finding the wizard to be overly competent and damaging, greatly out shining the others in damage and overall ability. He is just blasting the hobo's and dealt about 90%of the damage to both dragons they have encountered so far. Does anyone have any ideas of how to give the others a better chance to shine in this action without needing to restrict the wizard too much? I have been giving out items specifically for the others and excluding the wizard from good items. Do you think that more encounters per day could help so he can't just blast away all day? He likes evocation spells which have been great at dealing with the masses of weaklings. Maybe adding Spell resistance to the tougher monsters? Any ideas would be appreciated.

[AnachroNinja]

Going into this I have to assume the rest of the party is pretty unoptimized. Otherwise an evocation wizard probably wouldn't be such a problem. Is the wizard optimizing heavily? Like, arcane thesis and incantatrix to lower metamagic, or is he just throwing fireballs and orb spells?

Unless he is really going crazy your only real option is going to be talking to him and encouraging him to mix in some party support, or working with the other players to up their system mastery. The downside there is that an across the board jump in the party optimization would likely necessitate a rework of the campaign because RHoD isn't really keyed for high optimization parties.

With a bit more info about the relative optimization levels, might be able to give better advice.

[CMagnum]

The rest of the party had basically no optimization, a few decent items I've given them but the barbarian hardly even rages, the cleric loves casting sanctuary then heading, the fighter doesn't power attack often etc. Then the wizard: hasn't PrC'd yet but has a circle of mages and some good feats. I'll get home in half an hour and be able to tell you what he's got.
It is my first time dming so I'm new to this. Just looking for general idea to give the others a chance to feel powerful.
Thank you for the quick reply

[CMagnum]

so the whisper gnome wizard 8 has for feats: improved initiative, scribe scroll, spell penetration, focused caster and arcane thesis.

They are spread from level 6 to level 8 (the wiz is level 8) and I would say that the rest of the party is not optimized at all. I have been playing with the group for one year (and that was my start) however I enjoy reading forums and have put a lot of time into the game resulting in myself being the most knowledgeable about 3.5 by a decent amount, the rest of them are pretty casual. I would say the wiz has put the most time into learning and reading ideas out of the group by far.
He does a lot of blasting but also has mage armor, fly, glitterdust and a few other utility spells up his sleeve. Weasel familiar that he keeps out of the fight.

[icefractal]

The rest of the party had basically no optimization, a few decent items I've given them but the barbarian hardly even rages, the cleric loves casting sanctuary then heading, the fighter doesn't power attack often etc.

I think that's your problem. A blaster Wizard is generally the easiest to balance kind of Wizard, much less overwhelming than one who uses BFC/SoD tactics. However, that doesn't matter in the situation you have - one person is playing their character effectively, the others aren't.

So yes, I'd give them items, but specifically, I'd give them items that heavily pushed them toward effective strategies:
* Barbarian gets a totemic belt (or something) that allows them to Rage once every battle.
* Cleric gets a banner that auto-Quickens a healing spell (and gives it Close range) whenever they attack. Or if the player really wants to be a pacifist, it does it when they cast buff spells on their allies.
* Fighter gets a special weapon that's more deadly the more accurate he is - meaning that it auto-power-attacks: +2 damage for every point he exceeded the target's AC (even if he's using it one handed; a sword-n-board Fighter needs the help).

And don't exclude the Wizard from items entirely, he's not doing anything wrong. Maybe give him defensive items (Bracers of Armor, Ring of Spellbattle, Anklet of Translocation) more so than offensive ones.

[CMagnum]

Thanks for the ideas! I have been trying to balance by giving the others tailored equipment, these items all sound like just the stuff they need. I appreciate the response :)

[CMagnum]

And thanks also for the inclusion of the wizard in items as well - he does deserve to get stuff you are right, just that he doesn't need it to add to his destructive abilities in this case.

[Kelb_Panthera]

I don't understand the problem. There's an artillery character providing artillery-grade firepower. That's what the blaster wizard was always expected to be when the game was designed.

You could suggest to the wizard that the might consider shifting focus to BFC and/or buffing/debuffing. Even without optimization a blaster wizard has a pretty significant adavantage in damage dealing capability until mid-level barring shock-trooper shenanigans. Even then he still enjoys a targetting advantage. Unless he shifts away from blowin stuff up, the others are going to have to step up their game and then you're going to have a new problem with everything in the RHoD and any other module you run being hilariously underpowered.

Icefractal has a solid plan though. Giving an offensive advantage to other players and leaving the wizard's offense to his own buiding can help to narrow the gap at least.

[CMagnum]

I have tried nudging him in the direction of being a little more buff/debuff with ideas like haste, enlarge person and so forth, but even though he learned these spells he doesn't really use them often as he seems most content when doing what he is able to do with his damage blasts. I don't want to penalize him for choosing to play his character idea effectively in the campaign, so if anyone as any other good ideas for items to dole out to the other players that would be appreciated.
As I mentioned I am pretty new to the game so I guess the better title for the thread would have been about helping the other characters become better than to nerf the wizard.
Thanks to you all for the ideas and suggestions, it is all very helpful and appreciated.
CMagnum

[AnachroNinja]

Just as a side note, are the other players voicing concern about how the game is going or do they seem to be enjoying their play style despite being less effective? In the long run, if the party is succeeding, and everyone's having fun, the problem may not really be much of a problem.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I'm afraid you're only hitting the tip of the iceberg. As the characters continue to level, the gap will only get more noticeable. Be glad your cleric is of the heal/buffbot type and not interested in a ClericZilla.

Be grateful that the only thing the wizard is doing is blastomancy. He could be a Conjuration or Transmutation focused GD Batman Wizard. Also remind him that Arcane Thesis only works on a SINGLE PREDEFINED SPELL. You name the spell when you pick the feat, and it cannot be changed thereafter. What spell does he have Thesis'd?

If you want to encourage him to do more buffs, use this demonstration:

Damage a Fireball does? (level)d6 per enemy hit. So, that's roughly 3.5*lvl*enemies. You said he's level 8? That's around 28 damage per enemy hit, give or take. Oh, and watch out for Friendly Fire.

Damage a Haste does? Well, it gives an entire extra attack for every ally pretty much for the rest of combat. Remember, it is a party buff so you are hitting BOTH the Fighter AND the Barbarian. So one free attack from both fighter and barbarian... PER TURN. That's probably going to more than even out in the first turn, everything after that will be massively in favor of Haste while you do something ELSE.

if he is level 8, then he has 4th level spells. Suggest to him Mass Enlarge Person. Here's why. First off, it affects both the Fighter and the Barbarian at the same time (the first level version will only affect one). Like before, you're looking at rounds/level, so probably for the rest of combat. You're giving them a size bonus to Strength, so bonus damage, then a size increase on damage dice, which is more bonus damage, then you give them REACH. This is flippin' HUGE (well, Large, at least). That means they get to make an Attack of Opportunity before the opponent ever gets a chance to close in many cases, and means they DON'T have to provoke an AoO against a weapon of reach or a large opponent.

So why does this impact the wizard? The bigger they are, the more likely they will get opponent's attention, and the less likely something will get past them to him.

Also, opponents can't make a saving throw if you don't target them. Buffing is 100% guaranteed to work. Blasting has a chance of saving for half (or even zero, since you do run across evasion enemies in RHOD) damage.

You won't need to worry about SR, if you're playing RHOD, you'll be seeing plenty of SR creatures coming up that will start giving him fits. If he's still giving you issues, start tossing in monsters with two levels in Rogue (or monk) for bonus reflex save and Evasion.

[Droopy McCool]

I remember my first time DMing...

Actually, nobody in my group ever played a Wizzy or Sorc for the longest time. Every encounter I made was balanced against a group of mundanes. I remember one guy's character died, so he threw together an unoptimized Wizard 8. Party was attacked by two Behirs, and I was excited to use the improved grab/swallow whole abilities. Combat went like this:

First Behir shot a lightening cone, hitting the Paladin.
Second Behir grabbed the Paladin and prepared to swallow him.
Wizard cast enlarge person on him, making him just too big to swallow. Later he finished the Behirs off with some fireballs.

My initial reaction was disbelief. I had never seen anyone take over and ace combat so easily. Everything I prepared was pointless now. To be honest, the player felt gross about trivializing the game like that and made a different character.

Regardless, I feel like items will help, but you should prompt the others to use their abilities; not to optimize their build, just utilize all their tools. Power attack, rage, whatever. It doesn't make sense to not use these things, especially when it's a class feature. You didn't say they were new players, but this has a new player feel - lack of system mastery aside.

McCool

[CMagnum]

The other players are aware and have made "jokes" about the disparity of damage occurring, though I don't see them really putting in the time to do anything about it on their own, hence me seeing about some easy fix.

[CMagnum]

McCool, I have mentioned to them their abilities and feats before, but it seems that short of me telling the barbarian to rage at the beginning of every combat and reminding the bard to buff the party with his singing they are just not going to do it. They have all played for at least a year longer than I have.

Shneeky - great ideas and I will definitely pass these along to the wizard. the arcane thesis is on scorching ray

CMagnum

[fishyfishyfishy]

There is an excellent guide to running the Red Hand of Doom on these forums and I highly suggest you check it out. It was very helpful when I ran the module for my players. It's how I started my campaign.

As for addressing your specific concerns I would say that you don't really have much of a problem. There will be enemies with elemental resistances and SR in later stages of the module. Blasting will only be effective against the mobs of weaker enemies and the rest of the group will have to deal with the bigger threats.

I suggest giving them a few healing items (wands are good) so the Cleric feels more comfortable branching out with their spell selection. The upside is the Bard can also use these. An item that duplicates the effects of the extra Rage feat can help the Barbarian feel like they can use it more often. Maybe also give out something that can easily remove fatigue. A special instrument for the Bard can give an extra +1 to inspire courage.

Edit: find out why the players chose their specific classes and what appealed to them. Once you understand what they want out of the game you can better tailor their treasure. Get them to compile a wishlist of things they want for their character and use some of that as rewards.

[Bucky]

They are spread from level 6 to level 8 (the wiz is level 8)

Why is there a 2-level spread in the party? That sounds like an obvious source of a power-gap.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Why is there a 2-level spread in the party? That sounds like an obvious source of a power-gap.

Death, with a party like that running RHoD, would be my guess.

[CMagnum]

The difference in level is mostly due to people missing multiple sessions - the wiz is one of the only few who hasn't missed at least one - some up to 5 sessions so far. we play 3-4 hours once a week.
I work hard to balance the encounters for the party ability, and have only killed one character so far.

[Droopy McCool]

McCool, I have mentioned to them their abilities and feats before, but it seems that short of me telling the barbarian to rage at the beginning of every combat and reminding the bard to buff the party with his singing they are just not going to do it. They have all played for at least a year longer than I have.

Well then, I don't think there is much you can do aside from force-feeding them magic items to duplicate abilities they neglect. However, until they decide the difference in damage is a problem, I'd say let it ride.

McCool

[nedz]

Dropping targeted items is iffy because the player you have designed the item for may not like it and choose something else. This is especially true for beginners. Too often the item gets put in the bag and sold or even just never identified.

The healing items drop is a good idea though, however it does invalidate the healbots character choices so it might not work out too well.

The usual counters to AoEs is to have the enemy spread out, or hide, or close quickly to combat, etc.. If you present the blasterbot with lots of Fireball shaped formations, well you know what happens.

Also the point about invalidating the player's tactical choices, even bad ones, is also important. You really want them to improve their tactics and not for you to play the game for them.

[johnbragg]

It would mean swapping out some of the encounters in the module, but maybe instead of telling them, again, what their character classes can do, you show them. See what a Hobgoblin Bard 1/Sorcerer 6 (with a wand of cure light wounds) leading a Barbarian 4, Rogue 4 (with a Ring of Invisibility) and a Fighter 4 with some of your party fighter's best feats (you mentioned Power Attack, so start with 2H-PA).

If it's reasonable that the rogue could have scouted the party, start with the party hearing singing. (Pick appropriate theme music. I always find that The Who's Behind Blue Eyes creates a great vibe for confusing the party. And then, just about when combat is starting, in all hell breaks loose.) 1. Enlarge barbarian. 2. Haste, while Barbarian starts raging. 3. Enlarge 2HPA Fighter. Rogue breaks invisbility with a Sneak Attack on whoever when actual combat starts. Those fireballs are less damaging since the Sorcerer has cast resist energy on his buddies.

Keep mentioning the +1 to hit and damage from the bard song, too.

Maybe send in a second wave of 3 mooks, 1st level archers with Precise Shot, just to make things more chaotic. They get the bardsong bonus too. EDIT: Why not cast magic weapon on their bows too, just for fun?

Kit them out with whatever magical goodies you want the party to end up with. They'll appreciate and use them more after getting whacked with those items, hard. You could be really mean to the players and have the Sorcerer load up the Rogue, Barb and Fighter's weapons with the MAgic Weapon spell so they suffer the damage but don't get the loot. (Duration 1 min/level). That's up to you.

Side effect could be that your players NEVER allow a hobgoblin to escape alive again.

[johnbragg]

NOTE: If Fighter is a sword-and-board fighter, he won't get the full benefits of Power Attack. Does the player seem to have something he prefers, and we can find or homebrew something so that he pulls his weight?

[Bronk]

McCool, I have mentioned to them their abilities and feats before, but it seems that short of me telling the barbarian to rage at the beginning of every combat and reminding the bard to buff the party with his singing they are just not going to do it. They have all played for at least a year longer than I have.

They may have been playing longer, but they might just not be very good at it, or it isn't their primary focus. There's nothing wrong with reminding them of what they can do when it's their turn.

For example, if the barbarian attacks without raging, just say, 'and are you raging for the +2 damage bonus?'

You can remind the rogue whenever an attack would offer sneak attack.

Is the bard not inspiring courage, or using magic?

Remind the cleric that they can buff too.

The monk? I'm sure you can think of something. Stun more?

That kind of thing.

[atemu1234]

They may have been playing longer, but they might just not be very good at it, or it isn't their primary focus. There's nothing wrong with reminding them of what they can do when it's their turn.

For example, if the barbarian attacks without raging, just say, 'and are you raging for the +2 damage bonus?'

You can remind the rogue whenever an attack would offer sneak attack.

Is the bard not inspiring courage, or using magic?

Remind the cleric that they can buff too.

The monk? I'm sure you can think of something. Stun more?

That kind of thing.

Monk - "Hey, old buddy ol' pal o'mine, you may want to take a few levels in cleric and go into enlightened fist... why? Oh, no reason..."

[ComaVision]

Monk - "Hey, old buddy ol' pal o'mine, you may want to take a few levels in cleric and go into enlightened fist... why? Oh, no reason..."

I make this mistake all the time too but Enlightened Fist is the Arcane one, the Divine one is Sacred Fist.

[atemu1234]

I make this mistake all the time too but Enlightened Fist is the Arcane one, the Divine one is Sacred Fist.

Ah, whoops.

[CMagnum]

Wow, thanks for all the useful information everyone. Great ideas for not spoon feeding it but showing the way JohnBragg. BTW the fighter wields a greatsword so power attack would benefit him.
Nedz, they have been good about equipping items they find though often it is the wrong person interested in the item or the rogue like to grab anything he possibly can.
I'm getting that I should let newbs be newbs as long as it goes pretty smoothly.

[CMagnum]

Johnbragg, I haven't run the dirty looters side quest yet. When they're in a small town I'll reformat that encounter with your idea for sure

[CMagnum]

Would the monk need to stop monk progression if they took sacred fist PrC?

[Caedes]

One of my close friends always plays a Wizard and as a DM it used to be hard to keep the other players interested. Or keep him from trivializing everyone else's roles.

We have worked together over the years to try and bridge this gap. And for the most part we are successful. Here are my thoughts. And I want to note these may not work for everyone.

1. Discuss with your Wizard the effect it has on the game and try to build the relationship. Much of the time when they see that being god can degrade other people's play they might pull back a little. I have found discussions not in front of the main group are best. As it is easy for these discussions to put a Wizard on the defensive.

2. Keep everyone on the same level and XP. When I was in college and playing D&D all the time it was easy to catch up on XP after missing a game. But now I see Real life happens, so I do not penalize players that can't come. It also helps, keeping the power levels a little closer. The difference between a 6 level fighter and an 8th level fighter are pretty substantial. And on a bookkeeping level, you always know where all your players are at.

3. I completely agree with others view on the magic items and loot. Restricting loot from a wizard is a good way to encourage the wizard to play against you. And there is almost, nothing as damaging to a game when a powerful wizard pc starts pushing against your story because the player behind it feels shafted.

4. This ties into #1. But talk with the player and ask him more about what he views as a challenge for his character. Then add some flavor into the game to "challenge" him/her.

5. Check in on the forum thread as mentioned earlier about this module. And see what you can add or tweak to make combat more interesting for everyone.

At the end of the day, wizards are powerful beings. But luckily for us as DMs there is often an understanding human on the other side. And working with them you can both grow to be better DMing and Wizarding.

:D