LGBTAitP - Part 21: BLACKJACK!

[pffh]

I would welcome the chance to go gray, as long as it meant I had hair to go gray.

Alas, that pesky baldness gene runs in both sides of my family.

Just remember that even if you do go bald you will still have the same numbers of hairs. They are just invisible to the naked eye.

[Thufir]

...Seriously? Do they think that non-heteronormative people are lizard people infiltrators from the center of the earth?

...this one knows too much.

Awwww... Our thread is legally old enough to drink now.

What Helio said:

That happened three threads ago. Silly Americans.

[Taffimai]

Ah. the ancients times when gays were only thought of as promiscuous, soulless, child molesters. When was that, like, the 70s?

I'm currently reading a novel written in 1979 where an inspector is investigating the death of a priest, featuring the following dialogue:

- "Do you think that perhaps he might have liked the choir boys a little too much?"
- "Oh, no, I don't believe he was a homosexual, and if he was then his persuasion must have been of a very passive, gentle nature."

The book continues to use "homosexual" throughout in the meaning of "pedophile". This edition published in 1994, reprinted in 1998.

I was really shocked that they hadn't corrected it at the time of republishing, but then I wondered wether it might not be better to keep them for historical relevance. We're not changing all the "*******" and "negroes" in Uncle Tom's Cabin into african-americans either, after all.

[noparlpf]

Good morning everyone!

I'm still being fussy. It was A Thousand Words who made the dictionary and me who put it into the thingy. I would fight Golentan for the honour, but apparently he's all entwined in Kneenibble right now, so I'm going to let them get on with that!

By the way, if we play techno in here, I'm going to have to leave. Hearing techno makes me angry!

Good morning! I look like a hamster now. :D

I'm with you on the techno. It doesn't make me angry, but it's not my style. Can we stick to jazz?

I heard somewhere that gays are men who have lost the capability to love and therefore their only interest is sex.

Wut.

That makes PERFECT sense! ... No, wait, the exact opposite of that.

Yeah.

Awwww... Our thread is legally old enough to drink now.

That happened three threads ago. Silly Americans.

I don't get why I can fight and die for my country, and vote for the leaders of my country, but I can't drink or run for president.

I have quite a few white hairs already. Maybe they don't show because the lighting?

I noticed a little bit, but it's not very visible.

I would welcome the chance to go gray, as long as it meant I had hair to go gray.

Alas, that pesky baldness gene runs in both sides of my family.

I'm with you on that. I think I would look quite good with grey hair. Or any hair. I'm kind of praying I got my dad's hair instead of my mum's. He's fifty and still has very thick hair without much grey.

[Heliomance]

I've been trying to think of a gender neutral name I like to start using, but I've been having trouble. I think I just worked out why.
I don't want to step away from the name my parents gave me, because that feels like stepping away from them, rejecting them. I asked what I'd have been called had I been a girl, and got Naomi. I really like that, and would feel comfortable using it, but it's no more gender neutral than Thomas. And neither of them diminutise to anything gender neutral either. I suppose I could go with Nay, but that still sounds weird to me.

[H Birchgrove]

I'm currently reading a novel written in 1979 where an inspector is investigating the death of a priest, featuring the following dialogue:

- "Do you think that perhaps he might have liked the choir boys a little too much?"
- "Oh, no, I don't believe he was a homosexual, and if he was then his persuasion must have been of a very passive, gentle nature."

The book continues to use "homosexual" throughout in the meaning of "pedophile". This edition published in 1994, reprinted in 1998.

I was really shocked that they hadn't corrected it at the time of republishing, but then I wondered wether it might not be better to keep them for historical relevance. We're not changing all the "*******" and "negroes" in Uncle Tom's Cabin into african-americans either, after all.

Forewords and footnotes don't hurt.

Dashiell Hammett seems to have been at least mildly homophobic, but, alas, he lived and wrote several decades before your example.

Spoiler

Show

(He took pride in sneaking in the word "gunsel", a slang word for either being a young male prostitute or the "passive" partner in a... well. *cough* The editors, and the readers, thought the word meant gunman, and the word got a new meaning as a result.)

Suddenly, I feel like reading my unabridged Tarzan and Bulldog Drummond novels and ordering the latest re-prints of the first Fu Manchu novels.

[Triscuitable]

This is true. Also, our flame haired women are hawt.

I cannot attest to this statement, my apologies.

Also, working on a new avatar. Google "Inspector Cabanela", and you'll see the most awesome Inspector ever.

[KenderWizard]

Awwww... Our thread is legally old enough to drink now.

As far as I'm concerned, it always has been, provided it was with its parent or guardian in its family home up until it was 18, and no restrictions after that!

Yes everyone knows gay people don't have souls and instead there are evil spirits inside them and that's why they aren't attracted to people with good souls in them but only to other people with evil spirits (Bi people have both that are fighting for control) and the evil spirits are always trying to create more vessels for evil spirits.

Also there are different evil spirits. One for each gender.

That makes marginally more sense to me. Why do people insist on coming up with hateful quaint beliefs?

I've been trying to think of a gender neutral name I like to start using, but I've been having trouble. I think I just worked out why.
I don't want to step away from the name my parents gave me, because that feels like stepping away from them, rejecting them. I asked what I'd have been called had I been a girl, and got Naomi. I really like that, and would feel comfortable using it, but it's no more gender neutral than Thomas. And neither of them diminutise to anything gender neutral either. I suppose I could go with Nay, but that still sounds weird to me.

Speaking as someone who rejected my given name, and not even for legitimate gender-related reasons, I can attest that it can be difficult to mess with names without upsetting parents. My advice is to talk to them about it. They must know that you want to diminish or play with your gender presentation. They might have a name they considered that's more gender neutral; what would they have called a second son or daughter (or bigger number, depending on siblings)? What would they suggest as a gender-neutral nickname?

[Asta Kask]

Tommy can apparently be male or female. Spell it Tommi and make a little heart for the dot over the i.

[Serpentine]

Would you believe I was thinking about gender-neutral versions of Tom just yesterday? No, I don't know why. I got as far as "Thom", though, but decided it didn't work.
Tommi seems possible, though.

[noparlpf]

As far as I'm concerned, it always has been, provided it was with its parent or guardian in its family home up until it was 18, and no restrictions after that!

Oh you Irish folks. :b

[Taffimai]

@ Heliomance: Have you considered going by your surname? This works in most social settings, even those where people would know your official name, and very few people consider it weird. I'm still traumatised from all the times I was introduced to new colleagues and had to be grilled about why I wanted to be called Anne* instead of Cinderella*.

* not my actual names

[Arachu]

By the way, if we play techno in here, I'm going to have to leave. Hearing techno makes me angry!

*Hugs* I think it fits our feminist rants, actually...

Awwww... Our thread is legally old enough to drink now.

It can also smoke! Though it was already smoking...

Ah. the ancients times when gays were only thought of as promiscuous, soulless, child molesters. When was that, like, the 70s?

You know, I actually haven't heard the child molester bit outside of things that directly involved the stereotype... I always heard that we* molest adults (sometimes even women ).

* - 's far's they're concerned, I'm especially gay - not that I have a problem with being assumed to have a good decorating sense, mind.

...Seriously? Do they think that non-heteronormative people are lizard people infiltrators from the center of the earth?

Well, it would explain my claws... :we should have a lizardfolk smiley:

Huh? I thought you were there when it all went down last thread.

I expressed relief in retrospect that my mistake in adding a subtitle hadn't been repeated. That perked up the ears of several people and once you've got people having fun with coming up with them, there's no going back.

I should've kept quiet. I really, really should have.

*hugs, trying really hard not to pick on you*

Currently planning on exploring femininity for a while, hopefully enough to start eroding people's perception of me as male - and possibly my own as well - then approach androgyny from the other side.

I really do need to work on my voice though.

This may help a bit (moreso if you start from the start ) (thanks yet a third time, Astrella ).

Also, *hugs*.

Tommy can apparently be male or female. Spell it Tommi and make a little heart for the dot over the i.

That's a good one, actually... (curse you, Asta! )

[Mina Kobold]

...Seriously? Do they think that non-heteronormative people are lizard people infiltrators from the center of the earth?

Well, Kobolds are asexual underground reptilian humanoids infiltrating human society for the hats and cookies, so there could have arosen some confusion there.

That happened three threads ago. Silly Americans.

Five over here, unless we have that thing Kender mentioned. Which we might. :3

On the music note: I usually don't like Techno either, but I would have to listen to the suggestions before my vote would be fair. My ren-fair vote goes to Celtic music, though.

[turkishproverb]

Forewords and footnotes don't hurt.

Dashiell Hammett seems to have been at least mildly homophobic, but, alas, he lived and wrote several decades before your example.

Spoiler

Show

(He took pride in sneaking in the word "gunsel", a slang word for either being a young male prostitute or the "passive" partner in a... well. *cough* The editors, and the readers, thought the word meant gunman, and the word got a new meaning as a result.)

Suddenly, I feel like reading my unabridged Tarzan and Bulldog Drummond novels and ordering the latest re-prints of the first Fu Manchu novels.

Hammett did that solely to see if he could get away with it. His editors kept censoring him, so he started using words to see if they caught it. They didn't, and thus it become slang for "gunman".

And given this explanation came long before "gay" became acceptable, combined with his other attitudes, I"m inclined to believe him.

[Heliomance]

Tommy can apparently be male or female. Spell it Tommi and make a little heart for the dot over the i.

Trouble with that is I know a (female) Tommy already, and she's near universally considered rather irritating. I suspect she'd start making noise about it being her name and I'm copying her etc.

[Lady Tialait]

Hmmm, I think there might be some parental issues here..what do you guys think?

Linkage.

Edit: What I typed could easily be misread. What I meant by it is how excited they seem in the article about him being gay and out at the age of 7. They might have influenced him, he might not even know one way or the other. When I was 7 I thought boys were just awful, that I would never be around them.

That did not last. I think he's just using the wrong word, if it was a 11 or 12 year old, I could believe it. But...7? I have a 3 year old son, and if he said he was gay I'd most likely roll my eyes. If he was 7 I'd just shrug, if he was 11 I'd take it more seriously, if he was 14...well he should know by then.

[Hattish Thing]

Also, working on a new avatar. Google "Inspector Cabanela", and you'll see the most awesome Inspector ever.

I disagree.

Spoiler

Show

There will never be a more badass Inspector then Javert from Les Mis.

[Arachu]

Hmmm, I think there might be some parental issues here..what do you guys think?

Linkage.

Edit: What I typed could easily be misread. What I meant by it is how excited they seem in the article about him being gay and out at the age of 7. They might have influenced him, he might not even know one way or the other. When I was 7 I thought boys were just awful, that I would never be around them.

That did not last. I think he's just using the wrong word, if it was a 11 or 12 year old, I could believe it. But...7? I have a 3 year old son, and if he said he was gay I'd most likely roll my eyes. If he was 7 I'd just shrug, if he was 11 I'd take it more seriously, if he was 14...well he should know by then.

I knew I liked girls since I was 7 (possibly even 6, I forget when I was in Kindergarten). He could be jumping to the conclusion, but it's plausible that he isn't.

As for 3, I'd have no idea how to react to that. I couldn't say that it's impossible. :shrug:

[Coidzor]

Tommy can apparently be male or female. Spell it Tommi and make a little heart for the dot over the i.

So it doesn't have stripperiffic connotations outside of the States when names that normally end with a y have an i and an i alone substituted at the end there? That's interesting to learn.

[noparlpf]

Hmmm, I think there might be some parental issues here..what do you guys think?

Linkage.

Edit: What I typed could easily be misread. What I meant by it is how excited they seem in the article about him being gay and out at the age of 7. They might have influenced him, he might not even know one way or the other. When I was 7 I thought boys were just awful, that I would never be around them.

That did not last. I think he's just using the wrong word, if it was a 11 or 12 year old, I could believe it. But...7? I have a 3 year old son, and if he said he was gay I'd most likely roll my eyes. If he was 7 I'd just shrug, if he was 11 I'd take it more seriously, if he was 14...well he should know by then.

Interesting article. I too find it difficult to imagine orientation being discernible at seven, but then, I never reached an age of liking girls (or boys). I guess it might be possible to tell before puberty, but I don't feel like it would be really noticeable until puberty kicks in and the sex drive becomes active.

Edit:

So it doesn't have stripperiffic connotations outside of the States when names that normally end with a y have an i and an i alone substituted at the end there? That's interesting to learn.

I grew up knowing a "Danni", so no, I'd say that stereotype doesn't even hold true in the US. I might tend to think that people who make up really oddly-spelled names are hipsters, but not that names ending in "i" go with strippers.


IN OTHER NEWS, I followed the Hanako path in Whoop-dee-doo Girls. It was cute.

[Heliomance]

[COLOR="Navy"]This may help a bit (moreso if you start from the start ) (thanks yet a third time, Astrella

Ooh, that looks useful. Thanks!

[KenderWizard]

On potentially gay 7 year old: I dunno, I think it (romantic attraction) kicks in at different times for different kids (or not at all), but generally before full sexual attraction (if it shows up). But we know sexual feelings, or nebulous proto-sexual feelings, can show up in pre-primary children, so why not? Like the mom said, he might "change his mind", by realising he wasn't actually attracted to boy-types. But I think it's completely valid, either as an early realisation or as a phase, and since he knows what the word actually means (as much as kids know these things) and seems happy, I think the parents are doing just fine.

Oh you Irish folks. :b

Trouble with that is I know a (female) Tommy already, and she's near universally considered rather irritating. I suspect she'd start making noise about it being her name and I'm copying her etc.

Ugh, that's annoying.

So it doesn't have stripperiffic connotations outside of the States when names that normally end with a y have an i and an i alone substituted at the end there? That's interesting to learn.

Nope. Except maybe if the name is already associated with that kind of vibe, like, I dunno, Candy/Candi (giant apologies if anyone's name is Candi). But generally it's just an accepted, usually feminine, alternative spelling. Here, anyway. I've known such names as Sammi or Sandi. Haven't come across Tommi, but I would accept it as a name, guess probably a girl's name.

[Castaras]

I'd say he's going through a phase of liking to say he's gay. Whether he's gay or not, who knows. I mean, I'm 18 and I only realised for certain I was straight when I was about 16, and even now I'm open to the thought that I can't empirically say I'm not Bi considering I might have just not met the right girl.

But yeah. From my understanding, confusion occurs to a lot of people over the years. Some get a certainty right from the start. No idea which it is with this kid, but doesn't really matter - he's happy, parents don't care, s'all good, right?

[noparlpf]

I'd say he's going through a phase of liking to say he's gay. Whether he's gay or not, who knows. I mean, I'm 18 and I only realised for certain I was straight when I was about 16, and even now I'm open to the thought that I can't empirically say I'm not Bi considering I might have just not met the right girl.

But yeah. From my understanding, confusion occurs to a lot of people over the years. Some get a certainty right from the start. No idea which it is with this kid, but doesn't really matter - he's happy, parents don't care, s'all good, right?

It's all good as long as he doesn't happily announce it to the wrong people and get beat up.

[Mono Vertigo]

I'm also sceptical, but what I consider to be the most important part of this story is not that a 7-year-old would be certain of his attraction or even know what it is, but that his parents don't think it's a big deal either way.
So whatever happens, yay for that family.

[pffh]

I can without doubt tell you that deep down I've known that I was bi since I was 4. I just didn't have the words to describe it or any idea of the concept of sexuality or attraction. I kissed my first boy at 8 and then suppressed this through my teens until just a couple of years ago when I started discovering it again and it's been less then two years now since I accepted it. But I've always known.

So yeah it wouldn't surprise me that a kid raised around some gay people (the article mentioned that the parents have some gay friends) would know at an early age.

[Arachu]

So it doesn't have stripperiffic connotations outside of the States when names that normally end with a y have an i and an i alone substituted at the end there? That's interesting to learn.

I think the 'rule' is a little different when the name is usually male. Not sure why...

Ooh, that looks useful. Thanks!

(If you find that you can't hit falsetto, I've noticed that you can strengthen the muscles by swallowing repeatedly (I advise touching your Adam's Apple, so you can tell it's moving). That may also help develop pitch without making any noise later on. )

[Coidzor]

Eh? I thought falsetto was precisely what one didn't want to do.

[Glass Mouse]

On the seven-year old gay boy... I remember kissing another boy when I was... seven? And he very definitely had a crush on me. So I don't find it implausible at all.

What a weird memory. I wonder if someone completely swapped my personality when I turned 9 or something

I don't get why I can fight and die for my country, and vote for the leaders of my country, but I can't drink or run for president.

Yay, weird rules! I love my country's.

When you're 21, you can get into all the bars.
When you're 18, you can drive a car, vote, and fight for your country.
When you're 16, you can buy alcohol and porn.
When you're 13, you can decide on silly, insignificant questions like God, life and destiny.

And the thread has been allowed to drink since it was made, as long as it could convince a nice, older friend to buy it