League of Legends XXXI: I'll Start My Own Team! With TF! And Janna!

[Suedars]

I'm not sure if I agree. While the Sona nerfs were painful and probably overboard, and Taric will probably forever remain that champion that just doesn't have it at the very top level of competative play, you are underestimating the power of certain combos such as Nunu/Kog and Graves/Soraka, both of which are very powerful. Alistair is also still a very strong champion with almost as much CC as Janna and certainly more tank. Ali's roaming potential is also very important given M5s continuous aggressive early game playstyle.

I'm not saying that all other supports are worthless. Just that they tend to feel lacking outside of specific lane partners. Janna on the other hand feels decent with just about any AD, and very good with a couple of them which should be the benchmark for balancing supports. Riot should be figuring out how they can safely have other supports at Janna's level, rather than nerfing Janna down into mediocrity with the rest of them.

[Suedars]

Nocturne and GP have some of the strongest level 1s for Tankydps. They can basically walk up to you and kill you if they both star boots. Your best bet would have been to run away and try and keep them from harassing you down/engaging until Vayne gets some items and can just destroy them.

To add to this, for as strong as Shen is in lane, he's actually pretty weak at level 1. It's not till level 3 or so that he really starts becoming scary.

[Lix Lorn]

Tried on-hit Lulu in PVP. 13/9/13, we won.

[Chumbaniya]

I just played my first ranked team game and it was quite an eye-opener. Our team is just a few guys who met and played together while levelling up, and it's the first time in ranked 5s for all of us (and most have played less than 100 ranked games total). We played against a team that was pretty new, but composed mainly of guys who have been playing together for over 100 ranked matches, and it's astonishing how much it shows. None of us did too badly individually (though I was forced to play Sona, who I've never actually played before) but the coordination, awareness and map control on the enemy team was something else compared to what any of us were used to.

Staggeringly, we actually managed to go about even on bot lane (I think we actually got more kills) and we had some good individual plays between the two of us, bot overall we were stomped. At one point I tried to bait their AP TF so Amumu could initiate, and he literally one-shotted me - not something I'm used to seeing from anyone other than late-game Veigar to be honest! I learned a lot though. Not least that Sona is the most boring champion in the game.

[Zen Master]

Nocturne and GP have some of the strongest level 1s for Tankydps. They can basically walk up to you and kill you if they both star boots. Your best bet would have been to run away and try and keep them from harassing you down/engaging until Vayne gets some items and can just destroy them.

GP is amazingly strong early. Nocturne has insane damage if you let him get to you. Vayne is indeed kinda weakish early; ripping up bruisers is what she does but she can't just burst them down anymore. She can solo against them fine but she'll take a while.

Vayne is relatively weak even for an AD carry in the early game. She's usually paired with a sustain champ that can babysit her until she gets to her hyper-carry late game status.

Right - thanks =)

I suppose that explains rather a lot. It wasn't her getting me killed by being too timid - it was me getting her killed by being too aggressive.

Live and learn. Or die and learn, as the case might be this time =)

[Math_Mage]

Rammus isn't actually worth the ban with an intelligent team, right? That isn't just my blind dislike of stagnant meta choices talking, is it?

I just played my first ranked team game and it was quite an eye-opener. Our team is just a few guys who met and played together while levelling up, and it's the first time in ranked 5s for all of us (and most have played less than 100 ranked games total). We played against a team that was pretty new, but composed mainly of guys who have been playing together for over 100 ranked matches, and it's astonishing how much it shows. None of us did too badly individually (though I was forced to play Sona, who I've never actually played before) but the coordination, awareness and map control on the enemy team was something else compared to what any of us were used to.

Staggeringly, we actually managed to go about even on bot lane (I think we actually got more kills) and we had some good individual plays between the two of us, bot overall we were stomped. At one point I tried to bait their AP TF so Amumu could initiate, and he literally one-shotted me - not something I'm used to seeing from anyone other than late-game Veigar to be honest! I learned a lot though. Not least that Sona is the most boring champion in the game.

To be honest, I'm not surprised. You said you just hit level 30, right? At that stage, most people are still just learning how to play the game individually, never even mind teamplay. I commend you for doing premade Ranked, though, and hope you do more of it. I don't play as much as I would like, due mostly (I now realize) to unrealistic concerns about getting the team just right before we start ranking. Which doesn't make sense at all.

[Dogmantra]

so if Help, Pix is on an ally and he scores the killing blow, do you get the kill or the assist?

[Mirrinus]

I believe it counts as the kill for whoever landed the auto-attack. That's how it works for killing minions, or so I'm told.

[Kairaven]

well, when pix is on an ally pix's attack is triggered by the ally's autoattck, so it would be an assist for Lulu and a kill for the ally.

[ex cathedra]

Rammus isn't actually worth the ban with an intelligent team, right? That isn't just my blind dislike of stagnant meta choices talking, is it?

He has some really good gank matchups against certain laners, which is really what it comes down to. If you're running, say, Morgana/Veigar/Ryze mid he likely isn't worth banning, but champions without easy stuns/snares (Karthus, Cassio) tend to have a lot of trouble against Rammus and similar gankers.

Tried on-hit Lulu in PVP. 13/9/13, we won.

So silly. Where do you lane her? How does she get farm? Why don't you just throw Help, Pix! onto an ally and get the same result for zero gold spent?

[Suedars]

He has some really good gank matchups against certain laners, which is really what it comes down to. If you're running, say, Morgana/Veigar/Ryze mid he likely isn't worth banning, but champions without easy stuns/snares (Karthus, Cassio) tend to have a lot of trouble against Rammus and similar gankers.

He's also pretty bad against aggressive counterjungling, and his nerfs in the Lulu patch have probably made him even weaker there.

He's mostly banned in solo queue because most solo queue teams aren't coordinated enough to take advantage of that weakness, and he has strong ganks even through wards, which can give unorganized teams a fit.

[Fredaintdead]

So silly. Where do you lane her? How does she get farm? Why don't you just throw Help, Pix! onto an ally and get the same result for zero gold spent?

Aether... this is Lix... EVERYONE is a carry for her, and she amazingly makes it work. Don't take it so seriously.

[Draken]

Nemislayer, Djinn and others. I want to apologise for the last game, we had a power outage here that came out of nowhere.

[ex cathedra]

Aether... this is Lix... EVERYONE is a carry for her, and she amazingly makes it work. Don't take it so seriously.

I did acknowledge it as silly.

[Qwertystop]

Does Pix's AA beam apply onhits?

[Fredaintdead]

I did acknowledge it as silly.

My apologises, it just seemed like you were all "LoL is serious bizniz." when Lix does these things for fun rather than because they're more viable (see: Mage-Soraka, AD Sona, DPS Irelia, DPS Garen, pretty much any TANKYdps character turned into tankyDPS). Not to say that she doesn't pull them off, I've seen her AD Sona before, it was devastatingly effective.

[SlyGuyMcFly]

Riot should be figuring out how they can safely have other supports at Janna's level, rather than nerfing Janna down into mediocrity with the rest of them.

It would require remaking all support champs except Ali, Leona and Janna, methinks. And it'd probably be easier to just them delete them entirely and later release new champions called things like Sarako, Tirac or S'nao.

[fred dref]

My apologises, it just seemed like you were all "LoL is serious bizniz." when Lix does these things for fun rather than because they're more viable (see: Mage-Soraka, AD Sona, DPS Irelia, DPS Garen, pretty much any TANKYdps character turned into tankyDPS). Not to say that she doesn't pull them off, I've seen her AD Sona before, it was devastatingly effective.

Bear in mind you're addressing someone who has won with support Anivia.

[Lix Lorn]

So silly. Where do you lane her? How does she get farm? Why don't you just throw Help, Pix! onto an ally and get the same result for zero gold spent?

Wherever there's room. :P (I start out with faerie charm, ward, pots, so it's fairly kill-lane ish at the start, I just go for damage items)
Farm... well, it wouldn't work at higher levels, but at mine, carries still suck (sigh)
Because /fun/. :P

age-Soraka

One of these is not like the others
Mage-Soraka is totally a thing :P

[Suedars]

It would require remaking all support champs except Ali, Leona and Janna, methinks. And it'd probably be easier to just them delete them entirely and later release new champions called things like Sarako, Tirac or S'nao.

Soraka definitely needs a rework from the ground up no matter what. All she is right now is a walking health/mana vending machine, which means she can't ever be good the way she is since she promotes ultra-passive play. She needs a new niche. Sona is mostly ok aside from her ult which somewhat restricts the rest of her kit. Taric seems like he's fine as is and just needs some love. Nunu and Blitz both seem fine. They're both rather specialized, but good at what they do. Am I missing anyone? That doesn't seem like that huge a load.

[Fredaintdead]

Bear in mind you're addressing someone who has won with support Anivia.

Since tone doesn't exactly carry all too well through the internet, I was under the impression that he was being very serious, and acted as such. My apologies.

Because /fun/. :P

I basically should've just waited for this, because this is pretty much what I meant.

One of these is not like the others
Mage-Soraka is totally a thing :P

Yeah, I considered not listing it, but meh, I did.

[Suedars]

Random thought: both Boots of Swiftness and Boots of Mobility are pretty mediocre. Why not combine the two for Enhanced Movement 3 and Movement 5 out of combat?

[Math_Mage]

Random thought: both Boots of Swiftness and Boots of Mobility are pretty mediocre. Why not combine the two for Enhanced Movement 3 and Movement 5 out of combat?

Then they would be seriously OP. Even if you upgraded the cost to equal Merc Treads.

[Suedars]

Then they would be seriously OP. Even if you upgraded the cost to equal Merc Treads.

Would they though? You can't just sum the value of the two boots to determine their worth, since both are pretty clearly overcosted and underpowered right now since people almost never get them in favor of stat boots.

[Math_Mage]

Would they though? You can't just sum the value of the two boots to determine their worth, since both are pretty clearly overcosted and underpowered right now since people almost never get them in favor of stat boots.

Mobility Boots are actually situationally picked. Swiftness are never picked because 20 MS is not worth 650 gold. But the combination would ALWAYS be picked.

EDIT: Well, ALMOST always. It wouldn't be universal. But it would be the new gold standard against which all other boots would be situational. I prefer the current situation where most champs have a best pair of boots, but no one pair is best for most champs.

[fred dref]

Would they though? You can't just sum the value of the two boots to determine their worth, since both are pretty clearly overcosted and underpowered right now since people almost never get them in favor of stat boots.

Boots 5 actually do have a strong application on certain characters.

[Math_Mage]

Watching Xpecial play Pix in duo queue with Chaox. It looks bloody ridiculous. Win all the trades ever with ranged hard CC and a Janna shield. In fact, Pix really seems to be in line with Janna's design.

[Neoseanster]

I don't at all often see Boots of Swiftness, but Boots of Mobility are a popular pick on strong gankers (Alistar, Shaco, Sion, etc). I love building them on support Janna, just to make going around clearing wards etc that much quicker and safer, and to make it easier to go catch and slow anyone who happens to be out of position to help my team engage.

[fred dref]

On those rare occasions when I play support and I'm a safe support (basically Janna, at this point, now that I hate support Ali) I get Boots5. Clearing wards OP.

[Eldariel]

My apologises, it just seemed like you were all "LoL is serious bizniz." when Lix does these things for fun rather than because they're more viable (see: Mage-Soraka, AD Sona, DPS Irelia, DPS Garen, pretty much any TANKYdps character turned into tankyDPS). Not to say that she doesn't pull them off, I've seen her AD Sona before, it was devastatingly effective.

Huh. That sounds oddly familiar.

Bear in mind you're addressing someone who has won with support Anivia.

Huh; how's that even weird? Anivia's the best support ever (also the best Tanky DPS in the game)! AOE stuns, AOE slows, Wall of the Seinä, it's like Janna except a longer duration version of ~her ulti (without heal) on a ~15 second cooldown and the slow as an AOE in exchange for the shield.

And the stun slows too. The only reason not to run support Anivia is that you don't have Anivia in the mid then.