League of Legends XXXI: I'll Start My Own Team! With TF! And Janna!

[fred dref]

To be fair, with the latest change to the DC message it can be tricky to tell whether or not someone has DCed on the enemy team.

[Laudandus]

Lately, I started playing Nocturne solo top. Why doesn't anyone do this? It seems unbelievably good. Landing a Q seems to mean I win fights with almost everyone, especially with fear. W helps against people who want to barely engage. The sustain with passive is good, wave clearing with passive and Q is good, and after wave clearing he can both counterjungle and gank mid, doing both really well.

Why isn't nocturne solo top a thing?

[PEACH]

It is a thing, sort of, but he has fair mana issues, autopushes waves big time, and his sustain isn't amazing, just good. He's still good and a strong top, but not the best pick.

[Lix Lorn]

Why isn't nocturne solo top a thing?

I'd guess because he jungles better? That's what I generally hear; he may be an excellent solo top, but an awesome jungler, so people stick with jungle.

I dunno, only played him once.

Anyway... what happened to that new support they keep mentioning? I see no support...

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[Merellis]

I dunno Lix, killing everything that lives can be very supportive.

I like how you can toss her to Support or to solo top with barely an issue.

[Mirrinus]

Guardsman Bob just played on-hit Lulu solo top against Riven in a ranked 2000+ elo match. At the start, everyone on both teams were complaining that he was trolling. They stopped complaining after he was 6/0 at 15 minutes. He ended the game at 10/2/12 or something. His team won, of course.

His argument is that playing Lulu top is just like playing Teemo top, except she has a full support kit that works perfectly fine even with an AS build. So she's almost like two champs in one, at least by his logic.

Or, as one of his teammates put it, "Lulu is like Teemo, except she ate all the mushrooms herself."

[Lix Lorn]

Guardsman Bob just played on-hit Lulu solo top against Riven in a ranked 2000+ elo match, and went 10/2/12 or something. Lulu stronk.

His argument is that playing Lulu top is just like playing Teemo top, except she has a full support kit that works perfectly fine even with an AS build. So she's almost like two champs in one, at least by his logic.

Win.

So... is she strong or OP? Cause... she seems really powerful, but I don't know what part of her MAKES her powerful.
(I do like having malady, wits end and bloodrazor so that every autoattack makes seven numbers above their head <3)

[Merellis]

I think most of her strength comes from her passive and the attack speed items allowing her to utilize that passive to a crazy extent. It may have been built to be useful on the AD carry that you follow around, but it can also be deadly on Lulu herself if built right.

Add in the abundance of CC she has (i.e. slows, polymorph, knockup, and tossing Pix AT YOU.) She can shield herself, speed herself up, and save herself with her Ult and reach further with her Q when she uses E to move Pix around.

It makes her a viable character in a good few roles, where even if you're having a bad game, she can still maintain a strong prescense in teamfights.

I don't think she's OP, she's just damn flexible to where you can put her.

[Zen Master]

If someone says 'report X for AFK' in postgame chat, it normally means that that person was gone for a long time or at a crucial moment (i.e. any really late game teamfight).

Uh - I'm aware what it means. I was in that game, I'm fairly sure Cait was not absent for any significant amount of time at all. She did have two short disconnects. Nothing more.

No, in fact - quite, quite often indeed when someone says 'report x for y' they are just frustrated and lashing out at random at anyone who displeased them in any way.

Playing mainly tank or support - that is, roles that often get negative scores - trust me to know this very, very intimately. Frankly I imagine I've been reported a billion times by people who thought I should have played another support, built a different build, done something different, thought I never helped them, thought I was deliberately feeding ... none of which has ever been true except by accident.

I don't know who you play with. To me, post-game chat is where people get one last chance to flame everyone before they log off.

Hm. In case that sounds needlessly negative, you really do have significantly better luck with your teams than I do. A team without at least one completely vicious flamer is ... almost unthinkable.

[lord_khaine]

It might be because you are playing ranked?

i get them in about 1/3 to 1/4 of the games i play.

[Math_Mage]

Ok - how did we win this one?!

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<snip>

Down 15 kills and piles of gold. Frankly, I have no idea =)

Several people on both teams are fully built and everyone is squishy, so it doesn't matter about the gold difference, and Ashe+Veigar can actually catch people in fights, unlike anyone on the enemy team. I'm still wrapping my head around noboots Veigar, but whatever floats his boat.

I don't know who you play with. To me, post-game chat is where people get one last chance to flame everyone before they log off.

Hm. In case that sounds needlessly negative, you really do have significantly better luck with your teams than I do. A team without at least one completely vicious flamer is ... almost unthinkable.

Hum. I regard a Neggie Nidalee or two as the norm, but vicious flamers are a 1-in-5 occurrence at worst.

[Mutant Bunny]

I'm still wrapping my head around noboots Veigar, but whatever floats his boat..

Guessing he sold it for more deeps as the game went on. He can waddle around as long as he still destroys everything in one hit and his team can supplement his CC in case he gets caught.

[Math_Mage]

Guessing he sold it for more deeps as the game went on. He can waddle around as long as he still destroys everything in one hit and his team can supplement his CC in case he gets caught.

He doesn't need that much deeps. Entire enemy team is one-shottable squishies. No boots means he can't reliably do anything when event horizon is down, can't make it to fights, can't do much after fights if not very conveniently located. I dunno, it just doesn't seem like the thing to do.

[Silverraptor]

Ok - how did we win this one?!

Spoiler

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Down 15 kills and piles of gold. Frankly, I have no idea =)

You Veigar got fed and the enemy team built no magic resist. Duh.

[Psyborg]

So I've been playing a variation on AoE-to-win with some friends in 5-premade normals. The big focus being not just AoE burst, but AoE CC/lockdown. Typical lineup, and the reasons:

Wukong top (heavy AD build for Ult Of Doom, rather than tankiness. With Nimbus Strike into Cyclone, a good secondary initiator.)
Malphite jungle (best initiate we've found, gives us all the chance to rush in and chain the rest of our ults. Also, given our choice of carry, Ground Slam+Frozen Heart+Randuin's Omen keeps our DPS from getting outscaled ultralategame by Vayne/Trist/Sivir/Kog'maw.)
AD Kennen bot (more CC than any other ranged carry, period, and the rest of the team ensures that people will be in Slicing Maelstrom for the full duration).

We've run Nunu, Sona, and Morgana as support.

Banning Janna, getting Morgana where possible, and playing basically any AoE mid. Middlesticks was squishy, but that game had some of the fastest 5v5 teamfights I've ever seen.

Any suggestions for best AP mid when Morgana is unavailable and/or playing support? (Gold per 10 items into AP, rather than support stuff...we have to all pay attention and share warding duties, but it's kinda terrifying lategame.)

[toasty]

I think I've finally figured out where Galio is useful in solo queue. In games where he can solo top, farm, get tanky or damagey as the team needs, and then blow people up in teamfights. If your team starts to lose early game then you're in trouble since Galio really is teamfight focused hero. His abilities are kinda hard to land in 1v1 situations (Oh god his Q is so hard to land in lane) and 3 of his abilities are almost more useful for their team utility than their damage/healing. Though his W is pretty stupid amazing in certain matchups.

But seriously, late game Galio is one of the best champions in the game. He can build damage or tank as needed, his initiation, even without flash is pretty damn good, and his utility is probably the highest of any tank (think about it: what tank gives your entire team a speed boost and a HUGE single-target armor/mr buff?). The fact that Galio functions perfectly as a Tank, AP, and Support really screams to me that he is a lot more OP than people are giving him credit for. The only role he can't really do is jungling. Obviously Ranged AD is out of the question: he's not ranged.

I also hold that despite his many, many, many nerfs Gangplank is probably the best "default" Tankydps solo top. Especially with the nerfs to Irelia and Udyr seeming to just kinda fall out of favor as a general pick.

Of course, the fact that Wukong can kinda stomp on Gankgplank makes him not the greatest hero, because Wukong is SO GOOD once he gets kills. But whatever. Besides Wukong, Teemo and Pantheon GP is good. ANd honestly Teemo just wrecks everyone. And Wukong constantly surprises me at how strong he is. >_>

edit: For AoE to win I suggest the following comp:
Leona, Alistair for Supports

Amumu, Malphite, Sejuanni for Jungle

Corki, Graves, Kennen for AD carries (corki and graves more for AoE burst damage than CC, obviously)

Solo top is kinda weird. You could go Double AP with Kennen/Vlad/Morg/Cass/Rumble combos or you could do a tank like Malphite, Galio (tanky galio obviously) or you could do a bruiser like GP and Wukong who have huge AoE.

IMO AoE to win is one of the strongest combos inthe game. Especially if you combine it with good laners. AP Kennen+Cass is such a stupid good combo. Combine that with a solid jungle tank like Alistair who can lock people up FOREVER and its just so amazing. Bottom lane almost doesn't matter, but if you want to be dumb/mean you can just run Leona+Ashe. That's a TERRIBLE lane but so much CC late game...

[tyckspoon]

Any suggestions for best AP mid when Morgana is unavailable and/or playing support? (Gold per 10 items into AP, rather than support stuff...we have to all pay attention and share warding duties, but it's kinda terrifying lategame.)

Ziggs, Brand, Galio in mid. Leona and maybe Galio again support. Blitzcrank, if you don't mind his ult being the only AoE he has.

[Math_Mage]

So I've been playing a variation on AoE-to-win with some friends in 5-premade normals. The big focus being not just AoE burst, but AoE CC/lockdown. Typical lineup, and the reasons:

Wukong top (heavy AD build for Ult Of Doom, rather than tankiness. With Nimbus Strike into Cyclone, a good secondary initiator.)
Malphite jungle (best initiate we've found, gives us all the chance to rush in and chain the rest of our ults. Also, given our choice of carry, Ground Slam+Frozen Heart+Randuin's Omen keeps our DPS from getting outscaled ultralategame by Vayne/Trist/Sivir/Kog'maw.)
AD Kennen bot (more CC than any other ranged carry, period, and the rest of the team ensures that people will be in Slicing Maelstrom for the full duration).

We've run Nunu, Sona, and Morgana as support.

Banning Janna, getting Morgana where possible, and playing basically any AoE mid. Middlesticks was squishy, but that game had some of the fastest 5v5 teamfights I've ever seen.

Any suggestions for best AP mid when Morgana is unavailable and/or playing support? (Gold per 10 items into AP, rather than support stuff...we have to all pay attention and share warding duties, but it's kinda terrifying lategame.)

Consider Galio, Vlad, Brand, Malzahar, MidFid, and Anivia.

[dgnslyr]

Karthus's Defile is a big AoE blender of goodness, and his ult is always useful. Galio's ulti is a big AoE of lockup goodness, and his laning is none too shabby. Anivia's storm is also a big, powerful AoE, and she's quite good on her own merits.

Edit: And this is why I should finish my posts right away, not leave it sitting around before entering it.

[Zen Master]

You Veigar got fed and the enemy team built no magic resist. Duh.

Yea, Veigar got deadly, but it just doesn't seem like quite enough, and he doesn't have that many kills. And we were just behind by such a margin. And they did everyting better than us. I can't even begin to explain how many times they caught one or two of us because we were over-extended, solo, deep in their lane or jungle. Sigh.

Anyways, it's rare in any game I play for anyone to build any sort of defensive item - except for the odd giants belt. Anyone but me, that is. In fact, that's something I've been wondering: Does anyone actually build defences? Like ... armor and magic resist. Because I swear, hardly anyone does, to my knowledge.

[Neoseanster]

The only role [Galio] can't really do is jungling.

Untrue!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BC7sa6L-8c

Galio can do everything~

[fred dref]

Yea, Veigar got deadly, but it just doesn't seem like quite enough, and he doesn't have that many kills. And we were just behind by such a margin. And they did everyting better than us. I can't even begin to explain how many times they caught one or two of us because we were over-extended, solo, deep in their lane or jungle. Sigh.

Anyways, it's rare in any game I play for anyone to build any sort of defensive item - except for the odd giants belt. Anyone but me, that is. In fact, that's something I've been wondering: Does anyone actually build defences? Like ... armor and magic resist. Because I swear, hardly anyone does, to my knowledge.

It might have something to do with the fact that you seem to end up in games where everyone has a fairly low level of skill, probably due to what I assume is a low normal Elo based on your wins/losses.

[toasty]

Untrue!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BC7sa6L-8c

Galio can do everything~

Cant AD carry. iz not AD hero. Wut do.

edit: Another thing to think about:
LATE GAME a lot of things like Gold don't matter. What matters are two things: Can the enemy do baron easily? And can we win a teamfight? These are DEPENDENT on Gold, but not 100% reliant on it.

For instance, some time ago, I played Rumble in a Solo Queue game. We had some stupid combo like Rumble Morg Amumu. We were really behind. The enemy decided to fight 3 times in our Red Jungle. We won each fight because they fought in small areas where our AoE was really good in those areas. So despite being way behind our superior positioning and teamfighting presence (especially in the jungle!) meant we recovered.

In solo queue late game is so scary because you can't control your team very well. Early game you can assume that your AD carry will be bottom, etc. But late game? He will go wherever he pleases. I recently lost a game because at 35 minutes our item-capped Ashe decided to "Backdoor bottom" starting at our 1st tower. The instant she appeared bottom we were forced into a very bad fight near baron where we all got killed. We lost the game in the next 5 minutes.

The moral of these stories is that your teams positioning in a fight are very very important late game. Even if you have a 20k gold advantage it doesn't matter if your AD carry does 0 DPS every fight because the enemy Veigar can 1-shot him for free. That item capped AD carry did 0 DPS and you will probably win the fight even if your AD carry is full retard.

The biggest reason to get a gold advantage is to force the game to end early (like 25 minutes versus 40 minutes) or to force the enemy to play smarter in teamfights. Considering the enemy let you get a gold advantage they are probably not very good.

Late game the stupidest things can happen. You can play Galio, ult perfectly, and watch as your team leaves you for dead. Ashe can Backdoor bottom instead of teamfighting middle. You could choose to fight in the most retarded spots and get aced even though you took 3 dragons and have 3 more towers than they do.

[Math_Mage]

Yea, Veigar got deadly, but it just doesn't seem like quite enough, and he doesn't have that many kills. And we were just behind by such a margin. And they did everyting better than us. I can't even begin to explain how many times they caught one or two of us because we were over-extended, solo, deep in their lane or jungle. Sigh.

Anyways, it's rare in any game I play for anyone to build any sort of defensive item - except for the odd giants belt. Anyone but me, that is. In fact, that's something I've been wondering: Does anyone actually build defences? Like ... armor and magic resist. Because I swear, hardly anyone does, to my knowledge.

Both Nocturnes and Nasus in your game should have built much tankier; Veigar needed at least Zhonya's; MF should have had a GA. Fiora was obviously getting gibbed, so her too.

[Silverraptor]

Cant AD carry. iz not AD hero. Wut do.

Dog, you have a challenge.

[Reynard]

Cant AD carry. iz not AD hero. Wut do.

I've had games with Galio where I've killed more champs through GALIO PAWNCH than I have with any of my abilities.

Even when building AP.

[toasty]

I've had games with Galio where I've killed more champs through GALIO PAWNCH than I have with any of my abilities.

Even when building AP.

Just because you stylishly score all your last hits with Bannanas doesn't make AD soraka anymore viable.

[Chumbaniya]

Does anyone have any tips for Twisted Treeline? I've been playing some ranked matches because we're having trouble getting a consistent 5th person for our team, and it seems pretty interesting. So far I've won 2 of the 3 matches I've played in, but that was just down to outfarming and outfighting the enemy team without any of us doing anything that felt map-specific.

Last game we had a win with a pushing-focused comp, with Mord bot, Mundo top and WW (me) bot but alternating with grabbing middle creep camps. It felt like one we'd like to run again, but I really don't have much of an idea how to build a good TT team - it just feels like the smaller the team, the better bruisers become.

[Eldariel]

Cant AD carry. iz not AD hero. Wut do.

Build AD; AD carry. Easy.

[fred dref]

Does anyone have any tips for Twisted Treeline? I've been playing some ranked matches because we're having trouble getting a consistent 5th person for our team, and it seems pretty interesting. So far I've won 2 of the 3 matches I've played in, but that was just down to outfarming and outfighting the enemy team without any of us doing anything that felt map-specific.

Last game we had a win with a pushing-focused comp, with Mord bot, Mundo top and WW (me) bot but alternating with grabbing middle creep camps. It felt like one we'd like to run again, but I really don't have much of an idea how to build a good TT team - it just feels like the smaller the team, the better bruisers become.

If you were to go back a page or two, people were talking about TT.