Mass Effect 3.5B: Taste the Rainbow (Story and Ending Discussion; Spoilers!)

[Psyren]

No, the Geth outside of the Veil (presumably, the leftover Heretics you fight during the multiplayer) have Reaper code too. The Asari councillor mentions this to you in the post-Rannoch debrief.

Either all Geth are affected by Destroy, or none are.

[Luzahn]

Ooh, I've had a thought. Can anybody who achieved 7/7 Geth-Quarian peace factors vouch for the Geth being mentioned by Starkid? If Shepard can survive with enough EMS, the Geth could as well.

I still regret rewriting the heretics in that playthrough; the massive renegade gain put me off of it and caused me to doubt the situation.

[kamikasei]

RE: endings and Joker. It occurs to me that if he could choose, Joker would have picked Synthesis for more reasons than his new robot girlfriend. If synthesis rewrites every cell in the body, than it's a fair bet he isn't going to be handicapped anymore.

Not so much a fair bet as a wild shot in the dark. There's no reason to think it's going to change his bones in some beneficial way without changing enough else that he'll lose his identity entirely. And indeed, the ending cinematic has him moving pretty much the same way he did through the rest of the game.

Ooh, I've had a thought. Can anybody who achieved 7/7 Geth-Quarian peace factors vouch for the Geth being mentioned by Starkid? If Shepard can survive with enough EMS, the Geth could as well.

What are the seven factors again? I know I imported an ME2 save with both Legion and Tali loyal, rewrote the heretics, saved Koris... what else is relevant?

[Luzahn]

Not so much a fair bet as a wild shot in the dark. There's no reason to think it's going to change his bones in some beneficial way without changing enough else that he'll lose his identity entirely. And indeed, the ending cinematic has him moving pretty much the same way he did through the rest of the game.

What are the seven factors again? I know I imported an ME2 save with both Legion and Tali loyal, rewrote the heretics, saved Koris... what else is relevant?

Supposedly destroying the Heretics nets you two points; That's why I regretted rewriting them.

It's not my fault, I assumed they were indoctrinated!

[Dhavaer]

What are the seven factors again? I know I imported an ME2 save with both Legion and Tali loyal, rewrote the heretics, saved Koris... what else is relevant?

Tali has to be not-exiled as well as loyal. Not sure what else.

[Dhavaer]

What are the seven factors again? I know I imported an ME2 save with both Legion and Tali loyal, rewrote the heretics, saved Koris... what else is relevant?

Tali has to be not-exiled as well as loyal. Not sure what else.

[Luzahn]

Replaying ME1, I'm beginning to wonder what Sovereign's status in Reaper society is. He was certainly less effective than the others.

[Opperhapsen]

Replaying ME1, I'm beginning to wonder what Sovereign's status in Reaper society is. He was certainly less effective than the others.

It took 3 fleets and the destiny ascension to take him out.
The Turians took the others out on a 3-1 basis.

Sovereign is the only legitimately frightening reaper.
Harbinger just came off as petulant and the others were ineffective.

[Luzahn]

It took 3 fleets and the destiny ascension to take him out.
The Turians took the others out on a 3-1 basis.

Sovereign is the only legitimately frightening reaper.
Harbinger just came off as petulant and the others were ineffective.

The Turians were outfitted with those Reaper-killing guns at that point, weren't they?

[BRC]

Also I think the 3-to-One ratio was for Turian Battleships vs Destroyers. Sovereign was a Flagship (I think they call Reaper Flagships "Sovereign Class" )

[Luzahn]

Urgh. Compulsively doing all of the sidequests in ME1 was...painful.

[Marnath]

It took 3 fleets and the destiny ascension to take him out.
The Turians took the others out on a 3-1 basis.

No, it took that many ships to take down Sovereign and a geth armada nearly 40 ships strong.

[chiasaur11]

Also I think the 3-to-One ratio was for Turian Battleships vs Destroyers. Sovereign was a Flagship (I think they call Reaper Flagships "Sovereign Class" )

I think it was dreadnoughts V. Reaper Cap ships. Sovereign and the like versus the best the turians have to offer.

Of course, there's probably hundreds of Reapers in that size range and maybe, what, eighty or so, dreadnoughts functioning once Shep hits the scene ready to rally the galaxy.

What I'm saying is, this cycle is doing better than everyone before put together, has figured out the secrets to fighting Reapers, and is still 100% doomed without the Commander.

(Still, let's start playing Die for the Cause as loud as we can. Palaven's killed more reapers than every other species put together, assuming Shepard makes a bad choice at the ending. That's really, really impressive.)

[Joran]

Ooh, I've had a thought. Can anybody who achieved 7/7 Geth-Quarian peace factors vouch for the Geth being mentioned by Starkid? If Shepard can survive with enough EMS, the Geth could as well.

I still regret rewriting the heretics in that playthrough; the massive renegade gain put me off of it and caused me to doubt the situation.

I can verify that Starkid mentioned the geth in the destroy ending with 7/7 peace.

I had Tali/Legion loyal, destroyed the heretics, saved Admiral vas Qwib-Qwib and destroyed the Geth fighter base. However, I did not have max war readiness; I sped through single player without touching multiplayer.

[Psyren]

I did 7/7 with max readiness on the very playthrough that I chose not to go with Destroy, specifically because he mentioned the Geth.

I'm convinced that the only time he doesn't mention them is if they're already dead.

[Xondoure]

The concept that destroy targets reaper code or reaper tech and that's why the upgraded geth bite it, is pure fan wank. It made sense though, and worked until we find out about EDI. Even if it only targets reaper tech the geth would revert to pre-upgrade status not be destroyed. Also where Shep's implants come from, is there confirmation that its reaper tech? I wouldn't put it past the Cerberus to do it, but it doesn't seem like that is something Miranda would embrace. Just wondering if there is confirmation.

Miranda wanted to put a mind control chip in your head. Now, I actually like Miranda, her development was well done in my opinion. But she would have used reaper tech happily if it would help the project.


Unrelated note: The fact that Legion insists on upgrading the Geth pisses me off. What happened to the beth that wished to determine their own future? Just one taste of that reaper juice and suddenly there's no turning back. Yes I realize the issue of self preservation but surely there should have been an option for talking the fleets down and not putting the same technology that has indoctrinated every being it has come in contact with directly into a fully militarized AI. I was terrified all end game that Harbinger was going to assume direct control of my beloved flashlight heads.

Indoctrination in general needs more explanation. Pity we never got it.

[Psyren]

Unrelated note: The fact that Legion insists on upgrading the Geth pisses me off. What happened to the beth that wished to determine their own future? Just one taste of that reaper juice and suddenly there's no turning back.

That's not quite it. You have to understand how the Geth think - when there are more of them, they're more willing to consider other options. Ideals like forging their own future are closer to the surface.

What the Quarians did (bombing their Dyson Sphere) wasn't just barbaric - it fundamentally changed them. Legion tells you this himself: "Imagine that for every one of your people lost on Earth, your own intelligence dimmed. The Creators' attack narrowed the Geth's perspective; self-preservation took precedence."

I don't want to say they allied with the Reapers because they were dumber, per se... but having lost as much intelligence as they did, options on how to proceed without Reaper aid either became less attainable, or less worthy of consideration by the fewer runtimes they had left.

I'm sure the Reaper code was seductive/addictive in its own way, but that wasn't the primary force at play in that scenario.

[Trazoi]

Indoctrination in general needs more explanation. Pity we never got it.

I was expected more Harbinger and indoctrination and less Cerberus, defeating TIM around the 1/3 to 1/2 mark rather than dragging it out to the bitter end. I guess that was a legacy of ME2 which hyped Cerberus and TIM up to be almost as big an impact as the Reapers.

I don't know why TIM was that hard to find. He's always hanging around that window with that very distinctive star; it's a pretty big clue as to where to look.

[Aeryr]

The issue I can see with "Destroy them 'cause they're Reapers" is that it is the same reaction people should have had to Legion. Sure, the scale is bigger, but the fallacy is the same. I destroyed them because the have mind control capacity. I dislike mind control capacity.

If people had that same reaction with Legion then the destroy ending is even better.

[Derthric]

Miranda wanted to put a mind control chip in your head. Now, I actually like Miranda, her development was well done in my opinion. But she would have used reaper tech happily if it would help the project.

See I am not so sure on that. Control chip yes, genetic alteration yes, but reaper tech I don't think so. The whole point was to stop the reapers and IIRC at no point does she embrace reaper tactics or tech. That's why I was asking about confirmation. Now she might have but I would think not.

Unrelated note: The fact that Legion insists on upgrading the Geth pisses me off. What happened to the beth that wished to determine their own future? Just one taste of that reaper juice and suddenly there's no turning back. Yes I realize the issue of self preservation but surely there should have been an option for talking the fleets down and not putting the same technology that has indoctrinated every being it has come in contact with directly into a fully militarized AI. I was terrified all end game that Harbinger was going to assume direct control of my beloved flashlight heads.

I think Legion handwaves away the risk of reaper control. He grabs at a tech jump that will help his people, not unlike others embracing Mass Effect tech. He found a way to get the geth what they wanted without the "old machines" strings attached and it makes sense to me.

Indoctrination in general needs more explanation. Pity we never got it.

Only thing new I can think of I learned on Sanctuary, its nanites spread through the body by adrenaline. It allows the reapers to send signals into the body. Of course still does not explain how such things got into Anderson or Shepard at the end.

[Avilan the Grey]

Only thing new I can think of I learned on Sanctuary, its nanites spread through the body by adrenaline. It allows the reapers to send signals into the body. Of course still does not explain how such things got into Anderson or Shepard at the end.

You know, the question should be "Why isn't Shepard indoctrinated by the end of ME1".

[Beowulf DW]

I was expected more Harbinger and indoctrination and less Cerberus, defeating TIM around the 1/3 to 1/2 mark rather than dragging it out to the bitter end. I guess that was a legacy of ME2 which hyped Cerberus and TIM up to be almost as big an impact as the Reapers.

I don't know why TIM was that hard to find. He's always hanging around that window with that very distinctive star; it's a pretty big clue as to where to look.

I'd highly recommend taking an astronomy class if you ever get the chance. I took three, and the things you can learn are amazing. Really helped me to better appreciate the setting, too. The last one I took was taught by the man who found the first extra-solar planet.

Back to the topic now. As distinct as that star might seem, law of averages dictates that there could hundreds of others like it in our own galaxy. If there's one thing that astronomy can teach you, it's the shear size of this galaxy, and the overwhelming number of stars that are estimated to exist in it.

[Aotrs Commander]

I'd highly recommend taking an astronomy class if you ever get the chance. I took three, and the things you can learn are amazing. Really helped me to better appreciate the setting, too. The last one I took was taught by the man who found the first extra-solar planet.

Back to the topic now. As distinct as that star might seem, law of averages dictates that there could hundreds of others like it in our own galaxy. If there's one thing that astronomy can teach you, it's the shear size of this galaxy, and the overwhelming number of stars that are estimated to exist in it.

Hundreds is perhaps underestimating just a tad... Space, is, as a famous scholar once said, big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mindbogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space....¹

There are an estimated 200-400 BILLION stars in the galaxy, of which 10 billion are estimated to have a habatable life zone (Cerberus HQ may not, of course, be one of those).

ME states that less than 1% of the galaxy is explored - and it's probably a LOT less! Even with a small fraction of a percent, you could be looking at potentially millions of explored stars...

Finding one that "looks" right (without emission spectrum data) would be difficult, even for EDI or the Geth.



¹It now there should have been a forth option, I dunno, Puce, in which you use the Mass Relay network to broadcast Vogan poetry throughout the entire galaxy; 'cos if that don't get rid of the Reapers...!

[Androgeus]

¹It now there should have been a forth option, I dunno, Puce, in which you use the Mass Relay network to broadcast Vogan poetry throughout the entire galaxy; 'cos if that don't get rid of the Reapers...!

While it would kill the reapers, it would be quite the pyrrhic victory seeing as it would also kill everyone else.

[Aotrs Commander]

While it would kill the reapers, it would be quite the pyrrhic victory seeing as it would also kill everyone else.

Fits quite well with the tone of the other endings, then, don't it?

[Trazoi]

Back to the topic now. As distinct as that star might seem, law of averages dictates that there could hundreds of others like it in our own galaxy. If there's one thing that astronomy can teach you, it's the shear size of this galaxy, and the overwhelming number of stars that are estimated to exist in it.

How many star systems are there within convenient travel distance from a Mass Effect gate?

[Luzahn]

I'm just waiting for a massive alien empire to show up that's just been chilling in the stars out of reach of mass relays, having never been reaped by virtue of being out of reach and unnoticed

[VanBuren]

Only thing new I can think of I learned on Sanctuary, its nanites spread through the body by adrenaline. It allows the reapers to send signals into the body. Of course still does not explain how such things got into Anderson or Shepard at the end.

That was husking, IIRC. Specifically, it was part of an explanation as to why the Reapers used Dragon's Teeth to make them.

[Luzahn]

How odd. My xbox no longer reads my Cerberus network as purchaced. Hopefully they can't take Zaeed and Firewalker off of my machine.

EDIT: By the way, does anybody know why Shepard is grounded at the start of ME3 if Arrival wasn't completed? Working for Cerberus?

[BRC]

Concerning TIM, I don't think anybody actually SAW the star. We see it because it occasionally cuts to shots of TIM, but all Shepard saw was his holo-persona, which was projected without background.