Mass Effect 3.5B: Taste the Rainbow (Story and Ending Discussion; Spoilers!)

[MCerberus]

How odd. My xbox no longer reads my Cerberus network as purchaced. Hopefully they can't take Zaeed and Firewalker off of my machine.

EDIT: By the way, does anybody know why Shepard is grounded at the start of ME3 if Arrival wasn't completed? Working for Cerberus?

Generic 'the things you did'. No elaboration or anything. Just a 'You're a loose cop, Shepard. I want your badge on my desk'.

[Luzahn]

Generic 'the things you did'. No elaboration or anything. Just a 'You're a loose cop, Shepard. I want your badge on my desk'.

"But sir...I maxed out my Paragon Score...I regularly save orphans from monsters."

[Fawkes]

By the way, does anybody know why Shepard is grounded at the start of ME3 if Arrival wasn't completed? Working for Cerberus?

I got the impression it was because of working for Cerberus, but it's not stated outright.

[MCerberus]

"But sir...I maxed out my Paragon Score...I regularly save orphans from monsters."

It's pretty hilarious actually. My parashep was still a Specter with free reign over working the collector thing, forwarded lots of information to the Alliance, saved colonies, gave the middle finger to TIM, and showed up one day with a free super-powered cruiser with enough raw materials to make a second one.

but "The things I did," were so horrible.

[Landis963]

How many star systems are there within convenient travel distance from a Mass Effect gate?

Well, I worked a bit of this out. Within (IIRC) 4 days normal FTL cruising speed (12ly/day) from Sol is the Arcturus system, and from there you can extrapolate to the rest of the known galaxy.

[Aotrs Commander]

I'm just waiting for a massive alien empire to show up that's just been chilling in the stars out of reach of mass relays, having never been reaped by virtue of being out of reach and unnoticed

I've always felt that to be very plausible - particularly as I'm not convinced from the scale of Mass Effect, the Reapers have enough time - or numbers! - to scour the WHOLE galaxy every time (and why dangling the bait of the mass relays is a good plan, because you run a good chance of catching probably a large chunk of the space-faring civilisations as some point. Especially if you try and leave a relay close to any system that has a habitable zone. But I wouldn't have ever said that it would be by any means a perfect way of catching everyone...

[Luzahn]

I've always felt that to be very plausible - particularly as I'm not convinced from the scale of Mass Effect, the Reapers have enough time - or numbers! - to scour the WHOLE galaxy every time (and why dangling the bait of the mass relays is a good plan, because you run a good chance of catching probably a large chunk of the space-faring civilisations as some point. Especially if you try and leave a relay close to any system that has a habitable zone. But I wouldn't have ever said that it would be by any means a perfect way of catching everyone...

The codex did mention only 1% of star systems actually being explored. Mass relays link explorable clusters. The vast majority is disconnected from them. I assumed the Reapers just followed the Relays and purged everything at the other end.

[Aotrs Commander]

The codex did mention only 1% of star systems actually being explored. Mass relays link explorable clusters. The vast majority is disconnected from them. I assumed the Reapers just followed the Relays and purged everything at the other end.

Less than 1% have been explored, specifically. I suspect "less than" doesn't likely mean "nearly 1%", it more likely means "some number sufficiently low as to start needing mulitple decimal places and thus is rounded up to 1% for the more mainstream audience." (I say this because the observed scale of ME just doesn't lend itself to having explored billions of stars - hundred of thousands, I can believe, maybe even low millions, all things considered, but not much more than that.)

But yes, even if you generously assume a solid nearly 1% of the galaxy explored, and lower estimate of star numbers - that's still 198 billion stars for Bad Things to be hiding in...

[Luzahn]

That's what's great about sci-fi settings. You can always pull a new enemy out of the endless expanse.

I forgot that they included the "less than" there. Probably safest to use 1% as a statistic though; we've got nothing else to go by.

[Aotrs Commander]

That's what's great about sci-fi settings. You can always pull a new enemy out of the endless expanse.

I forgot that they included the "less than" there. Probably safest to use 1% as a statistic though; we've got nothing else to go by.

You REALLY think they've explored 2-4 BILLION stars...?

You realise that 300 billion stars would take a solid 342000 years to explore new stars at a rate of one star system per hour?

[Luzahn]

You REALLY think they've explored 2-4 BILLION stars...?

You realise that 300 billion stars would take a solid 342000 years to explore new stars at a rate of one star system per hour?

Of course not; though they probably have some scanners that can explore clusters. I'm just saying that the only canon statistic we have is "less than 1%," which means we can't exclude any percentage under 1%, no matter how unlikely.

[BRC]

I've always felt that to be very plausible - particularly as I'm not convinced from the scale of Mass Effect, the Reapers have enough time - or numbers! - to scour the WHOLE galaxy every time (and why dangling the bait of the mass relays is a good plan, because you run a good chance of catching probably a large chunk of the space-faring civilisations as some point. Especially if you try and leave a relay close to any system that has a habitable zone. But I wouldn't have ever said that it would be by any means a perfect way of catching everyone...

They don't. The whole point of the Mass Relays is to make sure Civilization develops along a predictable path and in predictable areas. They know which systems are going to be colonized, heck they probably know which planets are going to be Garden Worlds. The Citadel is set up as the perfect home for a galactic government, with the idea being that the species of the galaxy will put all their records there, allowing the reapers to decapitate the galactic leadership AND figure out where all those delicious people are.

The idea of there being a parallel galactic-civilization that has yet to come into contact with the Relay Network has been a pet-theory of mine for some time. Actually, IIRC, one of the Cerberus News Network stories was about a ship from an of-yet undiscovered race that had uploaded themselves into a computer.

[Luzahn]

They don't. The whole point of the Mass Relays is to make sure Civilization develops along a predictable path and in predictable areas. They know which systems are going to be colonized, heck they probably know which planets are going to be Garden Worlds. The Citadel is set up as the perfect home for a galactic government, with the idea being that the species of the galaxy will put all their records there, allowing the reapers to decapitate the galactic leadership AND figure out where all those delicious people are.

The idea of there being a parallel galactic-civilization that has yet to come into contact with the Relay Network has been a pet-theory of mine for some time. Actually, IIRC, one of the Cerberus News Network stories was about a ship from an of-yet undiscovered race that had uploaded themselves into a computer.

I'm going to love it if that occurs to Bioware for future games; I've had some theories going on it since 2 ended. Their technology would be totally different from the whole mass effect model of the Reapers.

[BRC]

I'm going to love it if that occurs to Bioware for future games; I've had some theories going on it since 2 ended. Their technology would be totally different from the whole mass effect model of the Reapers.

Eh, considering the implications of the end of ME3, any future ME games are likely to take place before or during the Reaper War for simple logistical reasons. That or Bioware will declare one "Canon" end result for ME3 that they'll use for future games, otherwise it would just get impossible.

[Luzahn]

They did mention the ending of "This arc" of the franchise. Felt like it implied future stuff. That and the comment to hold on to our saves implies that they wouldn't just go canon with it.

I mean, the two biggest problems are the Geth and the Genophage. Krogan could eventually cure it on their own, and either the Quarians could purge the Geth at a later date, or find survivors/rebuild them. I mean, they had the game ignore the plot-destruction of the collector base and the Rachni.

Killing the Quarians is a bit trickier, but survivors work again.

[thegurullamen]

I'm just waiting for a massive alien empire to show up that's just been chilling in the stars out of reach of mass relays, having never been reaped by virtue of being out of reach and unnoticed

Mass Effect 4. I doubt it's a massive empire, though. Without room for expansion that the relays provided, they're pretty limited in their scope. I think they'll come off more as tribes than empires--small, isolated, unwilling to accept change or at least not easily. Should be a good mirror for humanity's induction into Citadel space. Conflict should arise from their alternate development paths. Also, it will be fun to look at the galactic backwoods of the ME verse.

Unless they developed synthetics in which case they're all dead because.[/snark]

EDIT: Damn, didn't realize how far behind I'd gotten in this forum. I see this conversation's continued a little beyond the original quote.

[Luzahn]

Mass Effect 4. I doubt it's a massive empire, though. Without room for expansion that the relays provided, they're pretty limited in their scope. I think they'll come off more as tribes than empires--small, isolated, unwilling to accept change or at least not easily. Should be a good mirror for humanity's induction into Citadel space. Conflict should arise from their alternate development paths. Also, it will be fun to look at the galactic backwoods of the ME verse.

Unless they developed synthetics in which case they're all dead because.[/snark]

EDIT: Damn, didn't realize how far behind I'd gotten in this forum. I see this conversation's continued a little beyond the original quote.

Only slightly. 'tis the nature of forums.

[Derthric]

That was husking, IIRC. Specifically, it was part of an explanation as to why the Reapers used Dragon's Teeth to make them.

Touche. I thought it was about Indoctrination in general. Color me corrected.

I'm just waiting for a massive alien empire to show up that's just been chilling in the stars out of reach of mass relays, having never been reaped by virtue of being out of reach and unnoticed

Yes but look what happened to the Drell without Mass Effect tech. Without it they never left Rakhana and it became over populated. Which lead to resource wars and environmental catastrophe. So unless this new race needs to be either more rigidly developed to avoid such fate or find some other way towards ME tech or another FTL system. Not saying it wouldn't be interesting though, or impossible to do.

Mass Effect 4. I doubt it's a massive empire, though. Without room for expansion that the relays provided, they're pretty limited in their scope. I think they'll come off more as tribes than empires--small, isolated, unwilling to accept change or at least not easily. Should be a good mirror for humanity's induction into Citadel space. Conflict should arise from their alternate development paths. Also, it will be fun to look at the galactic backwoods of the ME verse.

Unless they developed synthetics in which case they're all dead because.[/snark]

It is known. All this has come before and will happen again. *Other cliche on inevitability of the path of life*

If they had asked me, and they never do, I would not have let the reason for the reapers be revealed in ME3. Let us banish/destroy/defeat them and then the greater looming threat that they addressed could be fleshed out more fully in an ME4 or other games in the setting. So instead of "this was all about solving a problem that we, as the writers, have undercut in importance to the point that most players do not see it as a problem" explaination that was underdeveloped and derails the ending. We get closure and an end to that arc, then get to actively explore the dark secrets of the reapers.

It would lend itself well to a restart of the franchise away from Shepard. You could skip it ahead several generations, and go show the eventual growing rift in Snyth vs Organic or more stars going through Dark Energy spikes. Then a new Spectre puts together a team at the direction of Matriarch T'Soni and Primarch Vakarian, teaming up with Urdnot Mordin and Ada'Zorah vas Rannoch to save the galaxy. Call me Bioware, we can make it happen

[Luzahn]

Touche. I thought it was about Indoctrination in general. Color me corrected.



Yes but look what happened to the Drell without Mass Effect tech. Without it they never left Rakhana and it became over populated. Which lead to resource wars and environmental catastrophe. So unless this new race needs to be either more rigidly developed to avoid such fate or find some other way towards ME tech or another FTL system. Not saying it wouldn't be interesting though, or impossible to do.



It is known. All this has come before and will happen again. *Other cliche on inevitability of the path of life*

If they had asked me, and they never do, I would not have let the reason for the reapers be revealed in ME3. Let us banish/destroy/defeat them and then the greater looming threat that they addressed could be fleshed out more fully in an ME4 or other games in the setting. So instead of "this was all about solving a problem that we, as the writers, have undercut in importance to the point that most players do not see it as a problem" explaination that was underdeveloped and derails the ending. We get closure and an end to that arc, then get to actively explore the dark secrets of the reapers.

It would lend itself well to a restart of the franchise away from Shepard. You could skip it ahead several generations, and go show the eventual growing rift in Snyth vs Organic or more stars going through Dark Energy spikes. Then a new Spectre puts together a team at the direction of Matriarch T'Soni and Primarch Vakarian, teaming up with Urdnot Mordin and Ada'Zorah vas Rannoch to save the galaxy. Call me Bioware, we can make it happen

Naah, we'd team up with Urdnot Wrex. Krogan live for millennia, and I'm sure Tuchankaing would get boring.

And the Drell were just particularly awful at space. The humans were colonizing Mars and Luna before they even discovered Mass Effect tech, remember>

[Krade]

So I'm sitting here on the VERY last part of the game that you have to shoot something (right after getting blasted by Harbinger). My third playthrough. Difficulty: Insanity. The other two times I did this I thought it wasn't even possible for the husks and marauder that pop out as you limp your way to the to kill you. I have been proven wrong. Seven times, so far. I would like to point out that exactly zero other parts in this game have given me this much trouble. Even on Insanity.

The husks are no problem, but when the marauder swings around that corner, you can NOT miss a single shot because if you do, he'll fire and you die. This wouldn't be a problem if you didn't have to shoot him ten times or could aim properly, but NO. You have to be FUBAR and incapable of moving or shooting staight.

/rant

Then a new Spectre puts together a team at the direction of Matriarch T'Soni and Primarch Vakarian, teaming up with Urdnot Mordin and Ada'Zorah vas Rannoch to save the galaxy. Call me Bioware, we can make it happen

Cool as that would be, by the time Liara was a matriarch, every other thing that was alive during this trilogy (except for other asari her age or younger, maybe some krogan) would have died of old age CENTURIES ago.

[Avilan the Grey]

Cool as that would be, by the time Liara was a matriarch, every other thing that was alive during this trilogy (except for other asari her age or younger, maybe some krogan) would have died of old age CENTURIES ago.

Actually there are hints that Krogan DON'T die of old age, at all. Theoretically they live forever.

[BRC]

So I'm sitting here on the VERY last part of the game that you have to shoot something (right after getting blasted by Harbinger). My third playthrough. Difficulty: Insanity. The other two times I did this I thought it wasn't even possible for the husks and marauder that pop out as you limp your way to the to kill you. I have been proven wrong. Seven times, so far. I would like to point out that exactly zero other parts in this game have given me this much trouble. Even on Insanity.

The husks are no problem, but when the marauder swings around that corner, you can NOT miss a single shot because if you do, he'll fire and you die. This wouldn't be a problem if you didn't have to shoot him ten times or could aim properly, but NO. You have to be FUBAR and incapable of moving or shooting staight.

/rant

Do not mock Marauder Shields.

Cool as that would be, by the time Liara was a matriarch, every other thing that was alive during this trilogy (except for other asari her age or younger, maybe some krogan) would have died of old age CENTURIES ago.

I think Krogan may have similar lifespans to Asari, assuming they live to old age of course.


Personally, my thoughts for the new series would be a kind of Age of Exploration feel. With the Relays gone, people develop new, better FTL drives (They could have developed these drives before, but nobody bothered because they had the Relays). These new drives trigger a new age of Galactic expansion and exploration. If the Genophage was cured, the exploding Krogan population moves en-mass to these new colonies. Since most of the Quarians have moved back to Rannoch, the Flotilla has basically become a giant caravan, taking people and supplies around the colonies.

If the Quarians are dead, it's the Geth running these caravans, as a way to gain acceptance in the Galactic Community. If you managed to get the Good Ending on Rannoch, you've got Quarians running around having arguments with their own suits.

By keeping the game in the Colonies, it becomes easier to account for past decisions. If the Genophage is uncured, these are not Krogans fleeing overpopulation, they're Krogans who refuse to live in a galaxy that reveres Shepard, the human who destroyed their last hope for survival. If the reapers are destroyed, they're destroyed. If the reapers are controlled, they're floating around Sol system or whatever.

[Krade]

So taking a half-hour break seemed to do the trick. After I got back on I did it first try. Yay.

Last Achievement: Unlocked.

Edit: I think the best thing they could have done for the last bit as you're navigating through the corpses in the Citadel is actually let you kill the Keepers there. That would have been awesome.

[Luzahn]

Do not mock Marauder Shields.


I think Krogan may have similar lifespans to Asari, assuming they live to old age of course.


Personally, my thoughts for the new series would be a kind of Age of Exploration feel. With the Relays gone, people develop new, better FTL drives (They could have developed these drives before, but nobody bothered because they had the Relays). These new drives trigger a new age of Galactic expansion and exploration. If the Genophage was cured, the exploding Krogan population moves en-mass to these new colonies. Since most of the Quarians have moved back to Rannoch, the Flotilla has basically become a giant caravan, taking people and supplies around the colonies.

If the Quarians are dead, it's the Geth running these caravans, as a way to gain acceptance in the Galactic Community. If you managed to get the Good Ending on Rannoch, you've got Quarians running around having arguments with their own suits.

By keeping the game in the Colonies, it becomes easier to account for past decisions. If the Genophage is uncured, these are not Krogans fleeing overpopulation, they're Krogans who refuse to live in a galaxy that reveres Shepard, the human who destroyed their last hope for survival. If the reapers are destroyed, they're destroyed. If the reapers are controlled, they're floating around Sol system or whatever.

I think the asari cap out at a bit over a millennium. Krogan are confirmed to live much longer than this. Okeer was described as having "Millennia of combat and strategic experience"

[chiasaur11]

Actually there are hints that Krogan DON'T die of old age, at all. Theoretically they live forever.

Given how Grunt's been going, I think he's going to switch it from a theoretical to a practical fact. If he's loyal, he's effectively worth more points than the most powerful ship in the galaxy.

Grunt's going to outlive everyone.

At the Restaurant at the End of the Universe, a man sits outside with a squeegee. His job is to wipe bugs off the wall.

He doesn't know where the bugs come from. He doesn't know why some of them are the size of skyscrapers and filled with bulletholes.

All he knows is they come flying into the walls every few hours, accompanied by a loud "hehhehheh."

Technically, Urdnot Grunt should probably be dead. Even if he wasn't, there shouldn't be anything left to kill. But no-one has the guts to tell him, and it keeps the job market thriving.

[Derthric]

Cool as that would be, by the time Liara was a matriarch, every other thing that was alive during this trilogy (except for other asari her age or younger, maybe some krogan) would have died of old age CENTURIES ago.

Leave me my delusions!

Actually, I forgot that Turians only live as long as humans and for some reason thought they lasted longer so it would have been in Liara's Matriarch stage. So change it to Shadow Broker and Primarch Vakarian, see cooperative writing, it works!

Given how Grunt's been going, I think he's going to switch it from a theoretical to a practical fact. If he's loyal, he's effectively worth more points than the most powerful ship in the galaxy.

Grunt's going to outlive everyone.

At the Restaurant at the End of the Universe, a man sits outside with a squeegee. His job is to wipe bugs off the wall.

He doesn't know where the bugs come from. He doesn't know why some of them are the size of skyscrapers and filled with bulletholes.

All he knows is they come flying into the walls every few hours, accompanied by a loud "hehhehheh."

Technically, Urdnot Grunt should probably be dead. Even if he wasn't, there shouldn't be anything left to kill. But no-one has the guts to tell him, and it keeps the job market thriving.

The codex hypothesizes that Krogan only die from outside influences because there are no records of a Krogan dying from anything other than "eaten by predator", KIA, Ship blowing up or some other thing equally as ridiculously awesome.

[thorgrim29]

Doesn't Wrex mention fighting in the Rachni wars in 1?

[Dhavaer]

Doesn't Wrex mention fighting in the Rachni wars in 1?

Nope. He was fairly young, but old enough to be a chief, at the end of the krogan rebellions. He's around 1500.

[GloatingSwine]

I think Krogan may have similar lifespans to Asari, assuming they live to old age of course.

A Krogan only dies of "old age" because he's not as fast on the draw as he used to be.

[Erik Vale]

A Krogan only dies of "old age" because he's not as fast on the draw as he used to be.

I think thats the point everyone has been making.

Nope. He was fairly young, but old enough to be a chief, at the end of the krogan rebellions. He's around 1500.

And theres your proof that old age death for Krogan means that either:
a) Your danger sense isn't working.
b) Someone elses Awesome Fu is greater than yours, normalls because yours has grown slightly slower.
However, I think it would be an intresting experiment to put a krogan in a device that sped up time inside it, just to find their old age limit. Or to find out if im wasting power *Shrug*.

If the Quarians are dead, it's the Geth running these caravans, as a way to gain acceptance in the Galactic Community. If you managed to get the Good Ending on Rannoch, you've got Quarians running around having arguments with their own suits.

That gave me a good laugh. However considering (from ME2, Tali' Loyalty mission) she says that the diference between a new world and their home world is 60 or 600 years in suits, should they jump a century, the Quarian's will be out of their suits.
Unless they're colonizing a new world in trying to push their immune systems further, but that's a hole new ballgame, considering they now have a whole planet to populate and roughly 17million as a base population. (I know the planets mostly desert, but there are still more than 17 million in Australia and prob Africa (I don't know, not looking up), that should keep them busy for a while.)