Simple Q&A D&D 4e Thread II: Electric Boogaloo

[Crasical]

Q 484

A character who takes the Bardic Dillettante feat gains proficiency with bardic implements. Per Player's Strategy Guide (P57, sidebar), "If you are proficient with an implement, you may use it with implement powers of any class, even if that class doesn't normally use that implement".

Does this extend to the musical instruments in PHB2, which are not implements, but several of which have the clause "Property: Bards can use this item as an implement for bard powers and bard paragon path powers"? Or are those strictly for bardic use only and are not covered by blanket multiclass implement proficiency?

[Tegu8788]

A 484

Specific overrules general. The character builder does not allow for it, and while that's not the best answer, I'm inclinded to believe this means Songblades/bows, and instruments that specific Bard powers are Bard restricted.

[Sipex]

A 484 cont'd...

While I think Tegu is right, you should still ask your DM about it, making sure you're absolutely clear on how you intend to use it. Personally, if I had a player who followed this path to cast everything through an instrument, I'd allow it simply because the overall idea is really cool.

[Cealocanth]

Q 485

If a Psion activates the level 1 Psion Daily Telepathic Projection, which causes enemies to make a melee basic attack against a creature of the Psion's choice on the Psion's turn, does this cause the target of this spell to attack it's own allies on it's own turn, like a Domination effect would?

[Tegu8788]

Q 486

If using a dagger to make the attack, can a Hybrid Executioner|Sorcerer apply Attack Finesse onto Acid Orb, without or with Sorcererous Blade Channeling? And possibly Assasin's Strike?

[Ashdate]

Q 485

If a Psion activates the level 1 Psion Daily Telepathic Projection, which causes enemies to make a melee basic attack against a creature of the Psion's choice on the Psion's turn, does this cause the target of this spell to attack it's own allies on it's own turn, like a Domination effect would?

A 485: The effect is not a domination one. The ability does exactly as it says; it makes a melee basic attack against a target of your choice at the start of your turn as long as it continues to be subject to your "telepathic projection". It otherwise acts as normal on its own turn.

[NecroRebel]

A 486

They could never apply Attack Finesse. Acid Orb is not a weapon attack, regardless of whether Sorcerous Blade Channeling is used or not, and Attack Finesse specifically applies only on weapon attacks (reference the Heroes of Shadow entry on Attack Finesse; the hybrid version inherits from it).

Assassin's Strike probably doesn't work, either, as attacks made through a dagger as an implement probably do not count as attacks with a weapon, which are required to trigger AS.

[Urpriest]

Q 487

What is the game definition of "hazardous terrain" as mentioned, for example, in the statblock for Yamato Sheng? It doesn't appear in the Compendium Glossary.

[Ashdate]

Q 487

What is the game definition of "hazardous terrain" as mentioned, for example, in the statblock for Yamato Sheng? It doesn't appear in the Compendium Glossary.

The DMG1 talks a bit about what is/is not a hazard, but not to the degree I think you're asking for; I would define "hazardous terrain" as any space where a trap or hazard triggers/exist, but while that might cover the "intent" it's probably not RAW.

[Kurald Galain]

Q 487

What is the game definition of "hazardous terrain"

Simply put, any part of the map that damages you for being on it.

Note that the effects of powers (conjurations, walls, zones) only count as terrain if the power description explicitly says so; e.g. Icy Terrain does, but Grasping Shadows does not.

[oldark]

Q 488

The summon Dretch wizard power from D385. The Intrinsic Nature effect is worded at follows: "If you haven't given the dretch any commands by the end of your turn, it attack or charges the nearest creauture and makes a melee basic attack. If it cannot attack or charge, it moves 5 squares toward the nearest creature. In addition, you take 1d6 each time you take a standard or move action before the end of your next turn."

My questions about this are does the 'in addition' apply anytime you don't give the dretch commands, or just when you don't give the dretch commands AND it cannot attack or charge? Also, does moving the summoned creature count as a command or do you specifically have to use its standard action?

Thanks!

[Ashdate]

Q 488My questions about this are does the 'in addition' apply anytime you don't give the dretch commands, or just when you don't give the dretch commands AND it cannot attack or charge? Also, does moving the summoned creature count as a command or do you specifically have to use its standard action?

Thanks!

A488

I think there's a good RAW argument that the "d6" damage you take for not commanding it only triggers if the dretch neither attacks or charges (i.e. it only moves up to 5 squares towards the nearest creature). That said, I don't think that's the RAI way of reading the power. I think the point of the "Intrinsic Nature" damage is to punish a wizard who lets the dretch run "wild", letting it get "free" attacks off (a general no-no in 4e design philosophy).

So I would rule that the "in addition" part triggers if you haven't given the dretch a command (i.e. it's part of the whole "Intrinsic Nature" text).

Under the summoning rules (PHB3 p. 218, PHB2, p. 221, Rules Comp p.120-121, 316), moving the creature is considered to be a "command". As the Dretch stat block does not say otherwise (i.e. specific trumps general), you can use a minor action to command it to do/perform any of the following, if possible: crawl, escape, run, stand up, shift, squeeze, or walk, so "commanding" it really only requires your minor action.

[Kurald Galain]

A 488

Strictly by RAW, it can be read either way. Comparing it with similar powers suggests to me that RAI is almost certainly the former (that the backlash happens any time you don't command it).

Either way, the power is not designed very well: if you rule that the backlash only happens if it can't attack or charge, then the backlash basically never happens (making this a very good power). If you rule that the backlash happens whenever you don't command it, then the backlash basically happens twice per turn, for 1d6 + all your damage bonuses (making this a very bad power). After all, the point of summons is that you don't command them and they do their own stuff while you do yours.

[Crasical]

Q 489

A brawler fighter with both the Headsman's Chop and World Serpent's Grasp feat attacks an opponent with the Grappling Strike power and hits.

Does the opponent:

1) Take normal damage, become grabbed.

2) Become grabbed, take normal damage, fall prone

3) Become Grabbed, Be hit, fall prone, take +5 damage?

[NecroRebel]

A 489

World Serpent's Grasp takes effect only when the target is slowed or immobilized at the time the attack is made. Grappling Strike does not grab, and thus does not immobilize, until after the attack resolves. Similarly, Headsman's Chop takes effect only when the target is prone at the time of the attack, while World Serpent's Grasp does not knock prone until after the attack resolves. As such, usually your interpretation 1) will occur unless a prior source has slowed, immobilized, or proned the target in which case WSG or HC will trigger as appropriate.

So we're clear: the knocking prone effect from WSG will never trigger HC on the same attack.

If multiple attacks are made from the same action (such as with Twin Strike), the rules are ambiguous as to whether the second attack occurs after the first is resolved (allowing WSG to prone for the first attack and then HC to deal bonus damage on the second) or at the same time (not allowing that).

[INDYSTAR188]

Q 490

In regards to the ritual Tenser's Floating Disk (description of ritual in spoiler if you need to reference that) a player of mine is an Artificer who uses a lot of rituals. She has recently been using TFD to ride on, which I'm fine with. But she is wanting to use it to travel vertically, up the side of cliffs, over obstacles, etc. Can she do that/should I let her?

Spoiler

Show

Tenser's Floating Disk (Level 1, Exploration, 10gp Component Cost, 10 Minutes to cast, last's 24 hours).

"You create a slightly concave, circular plane of force that floats a foot off the ground and can carry what you lay upon it. The disk is 3 feet in diameter and 1 inch deep at it's center. It remains stationary unless you move more than 5 squares away from it, in which case it moves with your base speed once per round until it is within 5 squares of you. You can command the disk to move up to your speed as a move action. If you are more than 5 squares from the disk for 2 consecutive rounds, the disk disappears, dropping whatever it was carrying. Your Arcana check result determines the max load the disk can carry."

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Q 490

In regards to the ritual Tenser's Floating Disk (description of ritual in spoiler if you need to reference that) a player of mine is an Artificer who uses a lot of rituals. She has recently been using TFD to ride on, which I'm fine with. But she is wanting to use it to travel vertically, up the side of cliffs, over obstacles, etc. Can she do that/should I let her?

As a DM, it is up to decide when a steep floor becomes a slanted wall. The disk will work over the first, but not over the second. Like any such problem, in the end you have to draw a line somewhere*. But the disk, per RAW, can't move vertically up a wall, since it has to stay a foot above the ground.

For obstacles, it can move above any obstacle that is less than a foot high (bear traps), but not over something taller (thick vegetation). Obstacles where the problem is lack of floor (pits, canyons, etc), the disk will plummet downwards until it is a foot above the ground (I'd rule that fall damage would ensue to anyone on the disk, just as if he had fallen the whole distance, since he starts a foot above ground, and ends up likewise, but again up to the DM).

Grey Wolf

*Think: "What is the largest amount of sand you can carry?" followed by "What if I add one more grain of sand to the pile?". Same, but with angles. I'd recommend setting the limit at 60, and then never presenting the group with anything steeper than 45, nor wall less inclined than 80.

[Ashdate]

Q 490

In regards to the ritual Tenser's Floating Disk (description of ritual in spoiler if you need to reference that) a player of mine is an Artificer who uses a lot of rituals. She has recently been using TFD to ride on, which I'm fine with. But she is wanting to use it to travel vertically, up the side of cliffs, over obstacles, etc. Can she do that/should I let her?

A 490: in answer to your first question, "can she do that", the answer is "no". The Disc floats only one foot above the ground, the inference being that it is affected by gravity (although admittedly, in an odd way). It cannot be used to "fly".

In the answer to your second question, "should I let her?" that's your call. Perhaps rather than allowing a 10g ritual to allow her to fly/climb walls, you could create a new ritual, "Tenser's Flying Disk", which is fluffed differently, but is otherwise equivalent, to the existing "Eagle's Flight" ritual (Primal Power).

[Urpriest]

Simply put, any part of the map that damages you for being on it.

Note that the effects of powers (conjurations, walls, zones) only count as terrain if the power description explicitly says so; e.g. Icy Terrain does, but Grasping Shadows does not.

Q 491

Hindering terrain can also damage those who enter it. What is the distinction between hindering and hazardous terrain? Is one a subset of the other? Where is the distinction made manifest?

[INDYSTAR188]

Q 492

The same player mentioned in Q 490 was telling me she believed that there was a rule stating that with any forced movement (slide, push, pull) the defender gets to roll a save immediately to avoid it. Example:

Water Elemental power Whirlpool does 4d6 + 7 damage and slides the target(s) 3 squares. She is saying that anyone that would be slid by this gets to save before that happens.

Is this correct/should I allow that? My worry is that it will make what are already long combats into even longer one's due to more dice rolling and whatnot.

*We know and play that forced movement over an edge does grant a save to avoid.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

A 492

No, this is not correct. No such Saving Throw exists. Forced movement that won't throw you off a cliff doesn't allow for saving throws.

Grey Wolf

[INDYSTAR188]

A 492

No, this is not correct. No such Saving Throw exists. Forced movement that won't throw you off a cliff doesn't allow for saving throws.

Grey Wolf

That's what I said! The problem here is I'm DMing this campaign but this person was the old DM and will DM the next one, so they have all these interpretations about the rules. I guess I'll ask her to show me where it says that and then give the correct interpretation on the rule.

[Tegu8788]

Q 493

Is there a playable race that moves 7 and boosts Con and/or Cha? Monster or PC, just looking for a fast race.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

That's what I said! The problem here is I'm DMing this campaign but this person was the old DM and will DM the next one, so they have all these interpretations about the rules. I guess I'll ask her to show me where it says that and then give the correct interpretation on the rule.

I can't very well give you a page number for a rule that doesn't exist, of course, but the rules governing pulls, pushes and slides are in PHB 285-286, and the only saving throw mentioned therein is the "catching yourself" one for cliffs.

Hope that helps,

Grey Wolf

[Ashdate]

Q 493

Is there a playable race that moves 7 and boosts Con and/or Cha? Monster or PC, just looking for a fast race.

A 493:

There isn't one that boosts both, but Gnolls (D367) are speed 7 +2 Con, and Vryloka (HoS) and Hengeyoki (D404) are Speed 7 +2 Cha.

[Yakk]

A 492

No, this is not correct. No such Saving Throw exists. Forced movement that won't throw you off a cliff doesn't allow for saving throws.

Grey Wolf

Cliff, or hindering terrain. The hindering terrain can be treated as a keyword phrase by RAW (ie, it only applies to zones that create terrain, not zones that just do auto-damage)

[Dimers]

A 492 continued

Forced teleportation also now allows a save to negate if the placement would cause the creature to fall. I don't recall the exact wording of the update, which might also allow a save against being teleported into other dangers but definitely didn't address forced movement other than teleportation. If I remember when I get home, I'll edit this post with the exact wording used.

EDIT: "If arriving in the destination space would cause the target to fall or if that space is hindering terrain, the target can immediately make a saving throw. On a save, the teleportation is negated."

[mathewt]

A 490

Definite no on vertical movement for Tenser's Floating Disc, since there's a higher level ritual (away from books so can't check for level) called Tenser's Lift that does that instead.

[LaZodiac]

Q494: Are there any rules for attacking from height? Like, if you're above a person, do you get any advantages/disadvantages?

[Dimers]

A 494

No. Sometimes it would let you make a case for having Combat Advantage, but that's not inherent.