Metal Thread VII: The Mosh Pit Don't Start 'Til We Walk In

[cleric_of_BANJO]

CAN'T STAND 'EM

Finally! Also, that new song was just as bad (if not worse) than the Dragonforce I've listened to. And I'm not one of those 'listen to one song and say it sucks' DF haters, I actually used to be pretty into them - you know, before I received the gift of good taste (i.e. before I listened to Venom's Black Metal). Just kidding, everyone's taste is personal, everyone's a winner, can't say you can't play, etc... but still, I despise Dragonforce.

[Moff Chumley]

CAN'T STAND 'EM

[Feytalist]

i'm pretty sure most of us here are nerdy enough to like that band :P

Eh, I kinda stopped caring after Inhuman Rampage. Which was incidentally around the time of my introduction to Bathory's Hammerheart.

What's the new vocalist like? I might actually one day be bothered to go click on one of those links.

[Nameless]

Eh, I kinda stopped caring after Inhuman Rampage. Which was incidentally around the time of my introduction to Bathory's Hammerheart.

What's the new vocalist like? I might actually one day be bothered to go click on one of those links.

So did I, but like I said, this is the best album since Inhumane Rampage.

The new singer has a more generic voice then the old singer, but he's good none the less. I saw him perform with them supporting Iron Maiden, the performance was so-so, but it was his first live show and it was in the O2 Arena... so I cut him some slack. (Heck, that damn arena even took away the epicness of Maiden for me. )

[RebelRogue]

I actually listened quite a bit to Inhuman Rampage - it was a fun and over-the-top album. Haven't really followed them since and the linked song was very much meh for me.

[eyeofsaulot]

Round 3 Results:

Spoiler

Show

Battle 1
01 Dream Theater - Scenes from a Memory (1999) VS (5 votes)
04 Iron Maiden - The Number of the Beast (1982) (6 votes)

Battle 2
02 Black Sabbath - Paranoid (1970) VS (8 votes)
11 Iced Earth - Horror Show (2001) (4 votes)

Final Round: (vote by Friday, Sept 21, 11:59pm cst)

Spoiler

Show

02 Black Sabbath - Paranoid (1970) VS
04 Iron Maiden - The Number of the Beast (1982)

[WhamBamSam]

To put it plainly, Iced Earth is not as legendary as Black Sabbath. Not even close. Black Sabbath is an inarguably all-time great metal band that the vast majority of metal bands claim as some sort of influence. And Paranoid is often cited as Sabbath's best album, by fans and critics alike.

I'd say that the run of albums from Burnt Offerings through Horror Show - Days of Purgatory rerecordings included - compares favorably to the first five Sabbath albums. The Dio era wins out over Dystopia for now, but I suspect that Stu's run in Iced Earth will end up being more prolific and better over all in the long term. Yes, Sabbath have a great legacy and influence and so on, but I'd still throw my lot in with Iced Earth.

And to speculate why some may feel uncomfortable or embarassed to vote for Iced Earth over Sabbath might have to do with that stigma against power metal put in place by some of the purists in the extreme metal camp.

It's not so surprising when someone like Comrade or Moff turns up their nose at Iced Earth. I was more referring to people who seem to have little problem voting up the likes of Iron Maiden, but still seem to feel uncomfortable about going the whole way into Power Metal territory.

i'm pretty sure most of us here are nerdy enough to like that band :P

Dragonforce actually have a pretty small window on that front. You have to meet a minimum nerdiness threshold without hitting the point of disregarding them in favor of Blind Guardian or the like. And of course, there are a solid 30% or so here who generally don't like Power Metal at all or have too low a tolerance for guitar wanking. So yeah...

I'm generally well disposed toward Power Metal and guitar wankery, won't begrudge a band losing a nerdiness war with Blind Guardian, and still don't really like Dragonforce. Meh.

I'll conclude my incoherent musings on subjective taste by directing your collective attention towards the new song from Seven Kingdoms. I quite liked their self-titled album, and this definitely has its moments. It smacks a little of sacrificing quality in the pursuit of epicness, especially in the lyrics which seem a bit awkward on my first few listens, but I still expect the full album to be good.

Alright, voters, it's nearly over. Here are your Round 3 Results:

Spoiler

Show

Battle 1
01 Dream Theater - Scenes from a Memory (1999) VS (5 votes)
04 Iron Maiden - The Number of the Beast (1982) (5 votes)

Battle 2
02 Black Sabbath - Paranoid (1970) VS (6 votes)
11 Iced Earth - Horror Show (2001) (4 votes)

I suppose predictably enough, the 1 and the 2 seeds make up the contenders in the Final Round: (vote by Friday, Sept. 21, 11:59pm cst)

Spoiler

Show

01 Dream Theater - Scenes from a Memory (1999) VS
02 Black Sabbath - Paranoid (1970)

It's 6-5 in favor of Number of the Beast and 8-4 in favor of Paranoid by my count. I think you missed godspit and Comrade's votes.

[eyeofsaulot]

It's 6-5 in favor of Number of the Beast and 8-4 in favor of Paranoid by my count. I think you missed godspit and Comrade's votes.

That's some amazing laziness on my part. Thanks for the heads-up - fixing now.

[WhamBamSam]

That's some amazing laziness on my part. Thanks for the heads-up - fixing now.

Eh, it happens. Glad to help though.

I vote Number of the Beast.

[eyeofsaulot]

Yes, Sabbath have a great legacy and influence and so on, but I'd still throw my lot in with Iced Earth.

Some people have difficulty challenging said legacy, myself included. A thread just popped up on these boards questioning the greatness of LotR. Of course it's fair to question, but I don't like the fact that it's being questioned. There are just some things out there that seem wrong to criticize. Black Sabbath's first six albums are on a pedestal of that sort, whether or not they deserve to be.

I was more referring to people who seem to have little problem voting up the likes of Iron Maiden, but still seem to feel uncomfortable about going the whole way into Power Metal territory.

Well, I'd say that the early (Dickinson) Maiden albums are also on that pedestal, whereas IE doesn't have any pedestal assistance.

And since this is a battle of pedestalled album vs pedastalled album, I have no qualms whatsoever voting for The Number of the Beast.

[Comrade]

Chalk that up as one more for Paranoid.

[cleric_of_BANJO]

Well, I may have disagreed with the original top ten, and I definitely didn't like some of the match-ups in between, but I think it says something about the fairness/accuracy of this voting system that the finals is between two of the most influential albums in metal. EyeofSaulot, consider yourself commended.

Now, as far as which is better... Number of the Beast is not my favorite Maiden album (their eponymous debut wins that race), but I can't deny it's influence. The fact is, there are more metalheads that were initiated by NoTB than by any other album (except maybe Master of Puppets). It was the album that popularized metal, even more than Judas Priest, or even Sabbath had done. And, song-for-song, it can still go up against the best albums around, and stand head and shoulders above the majority.

That majority, however, does not include Black Sabbath's Paranoid. The term heavy metal may have originally been used to describe Led Zeppelin, and the first metal riff may have been on Sabbath's first album, but there had never been a metal album until Paranoid. Metal songs, sure, but Paranoid is the first true complete metal album in history, and that means something.

But that's not why Paranoid is, in my humble opinion, the greatest metal album of all time. It's because once you get past the historical significance it has, the songs themselves are better than any other album. That's right, I said it: If Black Sabbath's Paranoid had been released in 2012, it would still be the greatest metal album of all time. From the opening riff of War Pigs, through the rock classics that are Iron Man and Paranoid, to the heavier-than-most-death-metal-bands darkness of Electric Funeral and Hand of Doom, and all the way down to the psychedelic, melodic riffs of Jack the Stripper, there is no album that is as perfectly composed and played as Paranoid is. Even the interludes, Planet Caravan and Rat Salad, fit perfectly with the mammoths they got placed in with. Rat Salad, both because of its excellent musicianship, and the sheer catchiness of the riffs and drums, and Planet Caravan, for its excellent placement within the album, and its mood-setting value.

There is not a note, not a beat that is misplaced in this entire record. Paranoid is the epitome of perfection in a metal album. It feels as though Iommi, Ward, Butler and Ozzy were not humans - experiencing music as we do - but outside observers, with a clear understanding of what makes perfect music. And they put that knowledge into one near-fourty-minute bundle that for decades has fried the brains, and toyed with the emotions, of many a metalhead.

I vote for Paranoid.

[Faulty]

I've never listened to Paranoid except for "War Pigs" but I vote for Sabbath simply because **** Dream Theater seriously.

Anyway, I wish this was an industrial music thread and not a metal thread so I could still talk to you guys but I barely listen to metal anymore. :( I miss you.

[Faulty]

I've never listened to Paranoid except for "War Pigs" but I vote for Sabbath simply because **** Dream Theater seriously.

Anyway, I wish this was an industrial music thread and not a metal thread so I could still talk to you guys but I barely listen to metal anymore. :( I miss you.

[Comrade]

but I barely listen to metal anymore. :( I miss you.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO FAULTY

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[godspit]

Gonna go with Paranoid on this one. I like Black Sabbath more than Iron Maiden. I used to love Number of the beast back in my younger, less grim and frostbitten days, but Paranoid was my first metal album, so I gotta maintain a semblance of loyalty.

[Feytalist]

If Paranoid was released today, it would make a pretty killer doom metal album.

But even though I don't like Number of the Beast as much as other Iron Maiden releases, I still think it's a better album.

So, my vote is for WildhoneyNumber of the Beast.

Anyway, I wish this was an industrial music thread and not a metal thread so I could still talk to you guys

I do industrial. You can talk to me. Well, electroindustrial and NDH, mostly.

[Nomrom]

My vote is for Paranoid.

[eyeofsaulot]

Now, as far as which is better...

Even though I ultimately disagree, what you wrote there was lovely, Cleric. Thanks for the thoughtful response.

I've never listened to Paranoid except for "War Pigs" but I vote for Sabbath simply because **** Dream Theater seriously.

I had made a mistake when I first posted the Round 3 results - the Final Round matchup is actually The Number of the Beast vs Paranoid. But honestly, you've had your entire life to check out a 42 minute album. Do yourself a favor and listen to it.

I do industrial. You can talk to me. Well, electroindustrial and NDH, mostly.

I'm gonna go out on the limb and say you guys don't listen to remotely the same kind of industrial. You and I could probably talk industrial, though.

[Feytalist]

So got myself the new Katatonia album, Dead End Kings. It's pretty good. It's actually really good. Probably their best since Viva Emptiness.

Katatonia has never been one of my favourite bands. It's more like a back-up band, for when I'm studying or sleeping or whatever. But their music is pretty good for that. Strangely calming, too.

I'm gonna go out on the limb and say you guys don't listen to remotely the same kind of industrial. You and I could probably talk industrial, though.

Heh. On reflection, you're probably right.

[Faulty]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO FAULTY

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Electronic music is really exciting, Comrade. ;_;

So, my vote is for WildhoneyNumber of the Beast.

bbz <3

But honestly, you've had your entire life to check out a 42 minute album. Do yourself a favor and listen to it.

Yes ma'am.

I'm gonna go out on the limb and say you guys don't listen to remotely the same kind of industrial. You and I could probably talk industrial, though.

Prooooooooooobably not. I've been listening to trve kvlt industrial like Throbbing Gristle, SPK, Coil, Test Dept. and Laibach. As well as noise/power electronics like Whitehouse, Nicole 12 and Prurient, and various other electronic groups like Celer, Fennesz and Gridlock. Though I have also been listening to Skinny Puppy and Front Line Assembly, who are Electro-Industrial/EBM.

[Feytalist]

bbz <3

Heh.


I'm down with Laibach, yeah. And then I also listen to stuff like Suicide Commando, :wumpscut:, Attrition, and then Eisbrecher, ASP, Das Ich, those kind of guys.

I never really liked Skinny Puppy :/

[Faulty]

Suicide Commando, :wumpscut:, Attrition, and then Eisbrecher, ASP, Das Ich

We don't listen to the same music.

[grimbold]

Gonna go with Paranoid on this one. I like Black Sabbath more than Iron Maiden. I used to love Number of the beast back in my younger, less grim and frostbitten days, but Paranoid was my first metal album, so I gotta maintain a semblance of loyalty.

way to be :P

stay trve to your ancestors!

[eyeofsaulot]

Yes ma'am.

Thank you, sir.

Prooooooooooobably not. I've been listening to trve kvlt industrial like Throbbing Gristle, SPK, Coil, Test Dept. and Laibach. As well as noise/power electronics like Whitehouse, Nicole 12 and Prurient, and various other electronic groups like Celer, Fennesz and Gridlock. Though I have also been listening to Skinny Puppy and Front Line Assembly, who are Electro-Industrial/EBM.

Some awesome stuff there, but needs more Einstürzende Neubauten.

I never really liked Skinny Puppy :/

Hrm.

Maybe you'd like The Greater Wrong of the Right. It's a lot more catchy than their early work. You might also want to check out Nivek Ogre's solo material.

[Killer Angel]

Final Round:

I don't believe it's the greatest, but... Up the Irons.

[ex cathedra]

Hrm.

Maybe you'd like The Greater Wrong of the Right. It's a lot more catchy than their early work. You might also want to check out Nivek Ogre's solo material.

TGWoftR is kind of catchy, but the only Skuppy album I actually enjoyed was Too Dark Park.

Also, I'm seeing Kvelertak and Torche in a couple of weeks. Also, Converge or something will probably be there but whatevskies.

[Moff Chumley]

Anyway, I wish this was an industrial music thread and not a metal thread so I could still talk to you guys but I barely listen to metal anymore. :( I miss you.

I still want my shoegaze thread.

And before anyone brings up what they're about to bring up, Niegecore=/=shoegaze.

[Faulty]

Some awesome stuff there, but needs more Einstürzende Neubauten.

They're on my shortlist for original industrial bands I need to listen to. I'm trying to absorb everything I acquire before jumping off to something new.

TGWoftR is kind of catchy, but the only Skuppy album I actually enjoyed was Too Dark Park.

Also, I'm seeing Kvelertak and Torche in a couple of weeks. Also, Converge or something will probably be there but whatevskies.

Too Dark Park is great. Also tell us how Kvelertak are live. I bet they're fun.

[ex cathedra]

I still want my shoegaze thread.

I kind of want a general music thread that isn't a travesty.

And before anyone brings up what they're about to bring up, Niegecore=/=shoegaze.

omg do u alcest

I actually kinda like Converge--at least, what little I have of Converge, which is You Fail Me and Jane Doe.

I've talked to a variety of people who are fond of Converge, but frankly I just never got around to giving them any deep listening. I've heard good things, at least.