Wait a second... I'll never use Warhulk.

[Snowbluff]

+2 Str/level would be more suited for practical use if it came with BaB. I prefer Frenzied Berserker, hands down.

[Jarian]

Or you could buy a Skillful weapon and get the best of both worlds.

[Snowbluff]

Almost, but not quite. FB picks up Frenzy, and gives me a bonus to my Power Attack.

[Jarian]

But Warhulks are halfway to throwing the moon.

I throw the moon. PA for 15.

I imagine a Skillful Moon is something like the Death Star.

[Little Brother]

Fighter 2/Barbarian X/Warhulk Y/FB Z?

I mean, you only lose Deathless Frenzy and some minor stuff, IIRC.

[kardar233]

Or you could use it on a Cleric base and DMM Persist Divine Power...

Or you could do some Knowledge(Religion) check boosting to make DC 25 regularly, and sacrifice people for 24-hour Divine Power.

Or you could find a way to get a War Chanter in the party...

There are lots of ways around that.

[Ravens_cry]

+2 Str/level would be more suited for practical use if it came with BaB. I prefer Frenzied Berserker, hands down.

Well, from a to hit perspective, that is equivalent, it's just that you won't qualify for feats or get iteratives. At least you're not a potential TPK like a Frenzied Berserker.

[Jarian]

Well, from a to hit perspective, that is equivalent, it's just that you won't qualify for feats or get iteratives. At least you're not a potential TPK like a Frenzied Berserker.

The party just pulls their Vow of Poverty Monk with Apostle of Peace levels out of his Bag of Holding to calm the FB down when he's done slaughtering things, obviously.

[Snowbluff]

But Warhulks are halfway to throwing the moon.

I throw the moon. PA for 15.

I imagine a Skillful Moon is something like the Death Star.

Ah ah ah! I said practical. I am well aware of how to throw a moon, and a FB is halfway to getting halfway. Plus, you can throw a moon at them, and they'll survive.

[Jarian]

Ah ah ah! I said practical. I am well aware of how to throw a moon, and a FB is halfway to getting halfway. Plus, you can throw a moon at them, and they'll survive.

Fine, fine...

Throwing Pluto? That's practical by comparison, right?


How dare they downgrade such a massive thing to asteroid status.

I recommend throwing sequoias then. Colossal javelins?

I stopped being serious in the first post, if you didn't notice.

[Randomguy]

I find that it's best for epic levels, when you gain epic BAB at a fixed race, no matter what class you're taking.

It's also great if you can somehow get the ability to cast divine power, for full BAB anyway.

[Snowbluff]

Fine, fine...

Throwing Pluto? That's practical by comparison, right?


How dare they downgrade such a massive thing to asteroid status.

I recommend throwing sequoias then. Colossal javelins?

I stopped being serious in the first post, if you didn't notice.

I noticed <3 ;)

I find that it's best for epic levels, when you gain epic BAB at a fixed race, no matter what class you're taking.

It's also great if you can somehow get the ability to cast divine power, for full BAB anyway.

Yeah a cleric could just be all like "Chicken Infested Persisted Greater Consumptive Field Divine Power Righteous Might GG-NO-RE!!!!!"

[Ravens_cry]

Or be a cancer mage and get that disease that *gives* you strength.
Then, he waits.

[Lateral]

Yeah, Frenzied Berserker requires going insane and possibly attacking your friends. That's a pretty big penalty, right there. Besides, War Hulk 10 gets a larger strength bonus all the time. One generally doesn't take War Hulk unless the lack of BAB can either be gotten around or isn't so much of a problem- for example, it's incredible for an AoO tripper, since the lack of BAB doesn't affect either attacks of opportunity or tripping.

Or be a cancer mage and get that disease that *gives* you strength.
Then, he waits.

Yeah, that basically makes War Hulk completely obsolete. Also, take that one that gives you DEX penalties and natural armor, so your non-touch AC will quickly reach ridiculous levels. Then find a way to not age, Plane Shift to an extreme fast-time plane, and come back six real seconds later with a strength and natural armor bonus of 100,000,000, because really, at this point why not just go for broke with your optimization? No bonus points for Hulking Hurler, that lacks originality. Although picking up the planet and hurling it into the Sun is certainly fun.

Hmm. You know what would be awesome? An immortal Cancer Mage Hulking Hurler that can survive in vacuum. And can also fly. He flies around the galaxy carrying a black hole, and throws it at solar systems, killing everything in them. You could run a campaign where astronomers can see something that's... nothing, just coming from space at incredible speed, and the PCs discover this story and somehow manage to defeat him. Of course, in addition to having an impossible-to-hit AC (I believe there's also a way to turn your natural armor into a deflection bonus, so the touch AC could be that high too) and a Strength score of 'Yes,' it would have become ridiculously mutated, huge, and powerful from eons upon eons of being bombarded with magic space rays.

[Snowbluff]

Or be a cancer mage and get that disease that *gives* you strength.
Then, he waits.

Sounds like a comic book backstory. Kinda like the Hulk. But the Gamma Radiation gave him Super Cancer.

Yeah, Frenzied Berserker requires going insane and possibly attacking your friends. That's a pretty big penalty, right there. Besides, War Hulk 10 gets a larger strength bonus all the time. One generally doesn't take War Hulk unless the lack of BAB can either be gotten around or isn't so much of a problem- for example, it's incredible for an AoO tripper, since the lack of BAB doesn't affect either attacks of opportunity or tripping.

Yeah, unless you go around pissing off your party's FB, she won't attack you. You know, kinda has to see you as a foe.

[Lateral]

Yeah, unless you go around pissing off your party's FB, she won't attack you. You know, kinda has to see you as a foe.

During a frenzy, the frenzied berserker must attack those she perceives as foes to the best of her ability. Should she run out of enemies before her frenzy expires, her rampage continues. She must then attack the nearest creature (determine randomly if several potential foes are equidistant) and fight that opponent without regard to friendship, innocence, or health (the target’s or her own).

Emphasis mine.

[Jarian]

I again posit that the best use for the party monk is Apostle of Peace levels and a Bag of Holding.

[Ravens_cry]

Sounds like a comic book backstory. Kinda like the Hulk. But the Gamma Radiation gave him Super Cancer.

Sounds like a cross between the aforementioned Hulk and Deadpool.
He's so strong he punches through the forth wall!

[Snowbluff]

I again posit that the best use for the party monk is Apostle of Peace levels and a Bag of Holding.

Or a Bag of Tricks.

[Lateral]

I again posit that the best use for the party monk is Apostle of Peace levels and a Bag of Holding.

Naaaah. The best use for the party Monk is to infect him with every disease ever, then have him run around sneezing on people.

[Jarian]

Or a Bag of Tricks.

I don't think you can fit your Monk inside a Bag of Tricks.

[Snowbluff]

I don't think you can fit your Monk inside a Bag of Tricks.

Nonononono... first of all, if we could put something as combat ineffective as a squirrel in one, why not a Monk?

Second, I am suggesting we throw critters at the FB.

[dextercorvia]

Start with a Totemist. Now add Warhulk levels. Who needs iteratives?

[Snowbluff]

Start with a Totemist. Now add Warhulk levels. Who needs iteratives?

Ahem. You're forgetting Power Attack, Frenzy (It helps make up the lost Str), in addition to the bonuses to Power attack FB gets.

If that were the case I'd just take Druid+Frozen Wildshape+Enhance Wildshape or Wiz/Master Trans, make myself a Hydra, chop off a bunch of my own heads. I'd have plenty of attacks and fast healing.

[moritheil]

At least you're not a potential TPK like a Frenzied Berserker.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

I used to have a sig quote from a DM trying to explain why his players were mad at him:

"It was a battle of attrition. The party had limited hit points, and the Frenzied Berserker had infinite hit points."

[*.*.*.*]

Warhulk1/Legacy champX

Problem is fixed, suck it FB!

[Drelua]

I'm surprised no one's mentioned gestalt yet; that's the first thing I thought of when I saw the class. It's a great class when you can get full BAB, which isn't that hard even outside of gestalt. It's like you're getting 2 BAB per level, and 1.5 damage (if two-handing). It seems odd to just decide you'll never use a class because you can't see how it would be useful. If I was making a gestalt Barbarian, that would be the perfect class, but if I had decided I'd never use Warhulk, I'd probably miss out on 20 points of Strength.

[Venger]

(I believe there's also a way to turn your natural armor into a deflection bonus, so the touch AC could be that high too)

are you perhaps talking about scintillating scales from draconomicon? that sort of converts part of your NA to deflection with a cap of your con mod, so you need to pump that somehow too.

[Jarian]

are you perhaps talking about scintillating scales from draconomicon? that sort of converts part of your NA to deflection with a cap of your con mod, so you need to pump that somehow too.

Updated in Spell Compendium. Natural Armor becomes Deflection, no cap.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Frenzied Berserker is probably better against a single opponent, but it's extremely vulnerable considering Shock Trooper and it's a huge liability for the rest of the party.

War Hulk gets Massive Swing, which I'd take over FB's Power Attack bonuses on any character. Every attack you make gets to hit every opponent in reach. Assuming you enter with Dungeoncrasher Fighter 6 and get Knock-Down and Knock-Back with a reach weapon (Spiked Chain or Kusari-Gamas), you're going to completely lock down the entire battlefield and clobber every opponent with Dungeoncrasher damage every time even one of them tries to get up or run away. Even without a Skillful weapon, if you're facing three opponents you hit each one twice, get two trip attempts on each one, each one you trip gives you another attack on all three which gets another trip attempt if the others failed, so basically you're automatically making one attack per opponent against every opponent in reach. Your initial full attack plus all the extra attacks you get from Improved Trip get to Knock-Back anyone hit for Dungeoncrasher damage. If you're flying (easy to accomplish) you can just Dungeoncrash them into the ground. One opponent stands up and your AoO hits everyone and Dungeoncrashes them again. They try to move away and you get to Dungeoncrash everyone again, then trip them, then Dungeoncrash everyone a third time.