Warhammer 40K Tabletop XVI: "Terminator? I hardly know 'er!"

[HalfTangible]

For some reason, I've always been under the impression that priority always goes to the Player whose turn it is; in this case, the Warp Talons' ability goes first as Coteaz is reacting out of turn.

I don't know where I've got this from, or what circumstances prompted me to find out, but I'm strangely convinced that's how it goes. *shrug*

I'd agree with ya. =/

[Closet_Skeleton]

Fought the new chaos book with Angels Encarmine.

My brother's 300+ point daemon prince cast boon of mutation on itself on turn 1.

That was that. the resulting spawn was killed by overwatched biker boltguns

[deuterio12]

Spend 300 points on Cultists. They're in Reserve or they go to ground on Turn 1. Step 2, spend the rest of your points on Terminators and Havocs. Congrats.

Hmm, let's see how this turns out

Chaos Sorcerer with two extra mastery levels, sigil of corruption, mark of tzenceth, melta bombs-155 points

Terminators x 5 with power maul champion with combi melta, 2 power fists, 2 lighting claw pairs- 192 points


Terminators x 5 with power maul champion with combi melta, 2 power fists, 2 lighting claw pairs- 192 points


Terminators x 5 with power maul champion with combi melta, 2 power fists, 2 lighting claw pairs- 192 points

Cultists x20 with dual flamers-100 points
Cultists x20 with dual flamers-100 points
Cultists x20 with dual flamers-100 points


Havocs x5 with 4 missile launchers(flakk), 175 points
Havocs x5 with 4 missile launchers(flakk), 175 points
Havocs x5 with 4 autocannons, 115 points

Total: 1496 points.

So you have 60 cultists, 15 terminators, 15 havocs (bringing some anti-air), and a mastery 3 HQ hiding in the autoncannon havoc squad for a total of 91 bodies pumping out three powers per turn, not too shabby.

Instead of sigil of corruption I could give the sorcerer terminator armor itself so it hangs around in one of the terminator squads, that gets refitted for ranged combat (four less power fists allows one to get a reaper autocannon, a combi-flamer/melta/plasma and a couple points to spare for an havoc champion combi weapon or something).

[Closet_Skeleton]

That many power fists isn't necessary. Get some lightning claws instead.

You could also have two vanilla sorcerers for the price of that upgraded one.

[deuterio12]

I could get two sorcerers. Or I could have mastery level 3 (basic level +2 extra upgrades) and not only more warp charges but also making sure I get the Tzenceth psychic power I want (swap mark of tzenceth for nurgle/slanesh to get their full schools as desired). Mastery level 3 for 110 points before other upgrades is a wonderful deal if you ask me.

Some lighting claws mixed in the terminator squads makes sense tough.

[Timberwolf]

Also, a Chainfist is always nice for when you want to do something other than ping harmlessly off a Landraider / need that Ironclad dreadnought dead. No idea what the points are like but on a general Terminator note, I always like to have at least one.

[Lowkey Lyesmith]

I could get two sorcerers. Or I could have mastery level 3 (basic level +2 extra upgrades) and not only more warp charges but also making sure I get the Tzenceth psychic power I want (swap mark of tzenceth for nurgle/slanesh to get their full schools as desired.)

Can't do, you can only have half (rounded up) of your powers from the god list. So a lvl 3 Nurgle sorcerer have to have 1 Nurgle power, but can have no more than 2.

[Cheesegear]

Run down. A couple of playtests (lots of proxies and unpainted models). Will give better over the weekend.

Blue = Good
Black = Okay
Red = Bad

Abaddon. Cheap(ish), lots of wounds and Eternal Warrior. Lays down the hurt since he's not forced to use his Daemon Weapon unless he has to and the Talon is amazing.
Huron.
Kharn
Ahriman
Typhus Cultists turn into bricks for no extra cost? Yes!
Lucius
Fabius
Chaos Lord
Sorcerer Makes up for not having a Psychic Hood by being ML3 and good. Is cheaper than a Chaos Lord for the '90% of HQs suck' factor and comes with a Force Wepaon.
Daemon Prince. Really expensive and plays to GK advantage.
Warpsmith
Dark Apostle

Chaos Space Marines
Cultists. Cheap. Useful for camping objectives and making sure your uber-combat character doesn't get shot up immediately on the first turn.
Chosen. Abbywing is a trap.
Possessed
Terminators
Helbrute
Mutilators

Berzerkers. 40K is a shooting game. Trying to beat face in close combat will just make you sad.
Thousand Sons
Plague Marines
Noise Marines

Chaos Bikers. Slaanesh Bikers.
Spawn
Raptors
Warp Talons
Heldrake.

Havocs. Even without Flakk Missiles (they don't need them, really), they're 115 points. This even makes Long Fangs cry.
Obliterators. Havocs don't have the Daemon rule which makes GKs sad.
Defiler. This is more expensive? Why?
Forgefiend. It's this or Havocs. Depending on your saturation of Grey Knights. You'll probably want two of these (or Havocs). spamming Ectoplasma = spamming Gets Hot = sadface.
Maulerfiend. Awful. Just awful. It's I3, which means Marines are sticking Grenades on it and making it sad.
Land Raider. Same old, same old.
Vindicator. It's S10, cheaper than a Defiler and has better AV.
Predator. Never thought I'd see the day when Predators are bad in any list. But...Havocs are just that cheap and Forgefiends just unload so many shots.

[hamishspence]

What's so bad about Huron? Sure, his claw is now only AP3 and Str 6- but it strikes at initiative, and has the Armourbane rule. I think it might have the Shred rule as well.

[Cheesegear]

What's so bad about Huron?

Nothing is bad about him per se. But the others exist and they're just better. His AP2 comes from an Axe and he goes last. Lucius costs about the same and actually wants to be Challenged.

[Trixie]

But doesn't Huron have nice Infiltrate skills for his units?

I also wonder why Ahriman/TSons aren't marked as bad, they changed for worse from last Codex, IMHO (or at least didn't progressed like the rest of Codex did).

[Cheesegear]

I also wonder why Ahriman/TSons aren't marked as bad, they changed for worse from last Codex, IMHO (or at least didn't progressed like the rest of Codex did).

You're wrong.

Ahriman is okay, Thousand Sons are okay. Not great. But not terrible. Ahriman is still over-costed, but he's not as bad as he used to be. He also has the same Infiltrate abilties that Huron has, which is great for slow-moving units like the Sons.

More psykers directly equals more psychic defense. And all of your Characters walk around with Force Weapons which means that your opponent isn't going to insta-Challenge you like he normally will.

Invulnerables are a god-send. Cover saves aren't worth crap and Plasma is everywhere.

The only downside is inability to Overwatch, which is why you have Cultists in front, and their expense. But, mostly you shouldn't need more than or two units of Sons anyway.

[Trixie]

Ahriman is good, Thousand Sons are good. Not great. But not terrible. Ahriman is still over-costed, but he's not as bad as he used to be. He also has the same Infiltrate abilties that Huron has, which is great for slow-moving units like the Sons.

More psykers directly equals more psychic defense. And all of your Characters walk around with Force Weapons which means that your opponent isn't going to insta-Challenge you like he normally will.

He has infitrate, yes, for 230 points. For someone who has to walk carefully around common sergeant with power sword (due to his AP4 and 3+ save) while having high chance anyone with power fist will bash his face in, is, IMHO, unacceptable. What he offers instead? 3 Witchfires per turn. Of which he has access to pretty bad ones. Sorry, Sorcerer HQ is so much more point efficient it isn't even funny. Had Ahriman have 2+ save, he would have a point, but apparently Magnus couldn't even afford one Artificer suit for his Legion.

Oh, and if you ever roll Chaos Spawn result, or, ironically, Daemonhood, congratulations, sounds like Tzeentch didn't liked you after all.

As for Challenges, I sort of see Sons like more expensive GK with just one force weapon/psyker per unit. They're still very underwhelming, and force weapon means nothing to 1W sergeants squad Sorcerers have to autochallenge giving them no chance of getting to more important targets. I'd even say that squad Sorcerer is just 58 pts snack for most Challenge ready characters, even squad leaders.

I want to like Thousand Sons, I really do, if you remember they were first army I ever played, but as it is, they cost far too much. I'd even say they cost more relative to 6th edition than last Codex ones costed in 4th.

Invulnerables are a god-send. Cover saves aren't worth crap and Plasma is everywhere.

In CC, or when facing massed anti-infantry fire, ++ means nothing, sadly due to PA. And when you battle something that can force ++ saves in CC, Sons lose pretty much by default, sorry. It's nice, but when Terminators with same ++ aren't that much more expensive, well...

The only downside is inability to Overwatch, which is why you have Cultists in front, and their expense. But, mostly you shouldn't need more than or two units of Sons anyway.

When you have cultists in front, taking Sons instead of Terminators isn't a given, I'd even say Termies do a lot of the same, but better.

And a point about Fabius, isn't he made with Allies in mind? His ability to make one CSM unit better seems written with allied detachments in mind.

[Cheesegear]

I want to like Thousand Sons, I really do, if you remember they were first army I ever played, but as it is, they cost far too much. I'd even say they cost more relative to 6th edition than last Codex ones costed in 4th.

Remember, I'm not saying that Sons are good. I don't actually think any of the Cult Troops are good except for Noise Marines and only when they're Troops. Of course, this is subject to my playtesting and what I and my friends can come up with our imagination. Hopefully, in a few more days, some other lists will come out that we haven't thought of yet and that's going to change things.

You haven't posted for a while so I don't know if you've kept up with how I've significantly toned down what I post about. Thousand Sons are playable, you can put them in your army and not feel bad. You can put Ahriman in your army and not feel bad. You're not going to lose the game because you picked Ahriman. He's going to do what he does, and Thousand Sons do what they do. So long as you pick up the gap in the rest of your list. My goal for the last 8 months or so has been trying to make What You Like == What Is Good. If you want a truly competitive output, I can do that, but there are already several blogs out there that already do that...And while I do appreciate what they do for the community, for here, where the majority of the posters appear to be casual players, I'm no longer worried about the 'best' units and I don't believe that 'not the best' is synonymous with 'terrible' like the aforementioned other places.

Contrast to Mutilators. An S&P Assault unit!? For real? They don't even do what they're supposed to do. If you put them in your list and expect them to Assault, they're not going to. They are bad. I can't figure out how to make them useful, and I'm trying to. But I just can't think of it.

[ZeltArruin]

Havocs. Even without Flakk Missiles (they don't need them, really), they're 115 points. This even makes Long Fangs cry.

Do they get 5 heavy weapons? Otherwise there's no difference, except wolves get more.

[deuterio12]

Indeed, wolves may cost two points extra, but their missile launchers are 5 points cheaper, and then ATSKNF and fire control because why not? Also no hidden squad leader tax.

Chosen. Abbywing is a trap.

Care to detail? Up to five special weapons per squad with combi on champion and riding in a rhino with 3 CC attacks per model to fend off assaults while scoring sounds like a pretty sweet deal to me.

[Cheesegear]

Do they get 5 heavy weapons? Otherwise there's no difference, except wolves get more.

My bad. I keep forgetting that Wolves have more per squad which ups the points cost I have in my head.

Care to detail? Up to five special weapons per squad with combi on champion and riding in a rhino with 3 CC attacks per model to fend off assaults while scoring sounds like a pretty sweet deal to me.

It sounds like a sweet deal. Sure. Until you figure out what that actually entails.

Chosen (x6) - 238 Points
x5 Plasma Guns
Sergeant; Combi-Weapon
+ Rhino; Combi-Weapon

200+ Points for six one-wound models that don't have an Invulnerable, a 2+ save or FNP. Is not a sweet deal. Especially if you plan on spamming them for 'Abbywing'. Secondly, see how a Rhino has two Fire Points? That's a whole lot of wasted points, and Chaos Marines can't combat squad so there's no point in bumping it up to ten because you don't get any more upgrades and you cost even more points. And here's hoping you aren't killing your one-wound models with Gets Hot.

You know what 240 points gets everyone else? Five Grey Knight Terminators with a Psycannon and Hammers sitting behind cover all day waiting for you to Gets Hot yourself. Or even ten Strike Knights with two Psycannons. And they'll shoot you just fine with Bolters. Have you spotted the trap yet?

Compare to;

Chaos Marines (x10) - 225 Points
x2 Plasmaguns
Sergeant; Combi-Weapon
+ Rhino; Combi-Weapon

More models for the slightly less points. Fire Points aren't wasted which means you can castle all day and not waste points. Casualties can actually be taken before you start removing models that matter, which, again, means your points go further.

Unless you do...

Chosen - (x6) - 203 Points
x2 Flamers, x3 Meltaguns
Sergeant; Combi-Weapon
Rhino; Combi-Weapon

Which has issues with Terminators and requires you to get close to your opponent which isn't always the best idea.

However, I can see the old Wolf Guard build getting busted out...

Chosen (x5) - 150 Points
x2 Meltaguns, x1 Flamer
+ Rhino

Which you could spam all day. Maybe you could add the Icon of Slaanesh and FNP, but by then you're up to 200 points and still facing the same problem. That Chosen are super-expensive and not durable enough to make it count.

However,
Chaos Marines (x5) - 140 Points
Plasmagun
Sergeant; Combi-Weapon
Rhino; Combi-Weapon

is also around. Although if you drop the Combi-Weapons you're 120 points. And I know for a fact that you can spam that.

Contrast to Purifiers; They're more expensive, sure. But they get more, and more importantly cheaper weapon options than Strike Knights which can offset the cost some and come with a joke of a power that laughs at you when you assault them, but, if you don't Assault them, they're Grey Knights and they're shooting at you.

Remember; Combi-Weapons are anything you want them to be since they all cost the same.

[deuterio12]

Comparing with GK isn't really fair since their codex is overflowing with cheap cheese, so I'll stick with comparing with other chaos units.

So you presented this build
Chaos Marines (x5) - 140 Points
Plasmagun
SergeantCHOSEN CHAMPION; Combi-Weapon
Rhino; Combi-Weapon

Now I agree that geting chosen with max special weapons may not be such a good idea, but you can still do this

Chosen x5- 150 points
Plasmagun
Chosen Champion; Combi-weapon
Rhino; Combi-weapon

So for a cheap extra 10 points, the chosen have +1 LD and can actually melee pretty good. They can also take a second plasma gun relatively cheap and have two models to spare against enemy attacks.

Now I'm no saying they're OMGBORKED, but the extra cost seems worth it to me for the extra versatility and better morale.

[Penguinizer]

So, I (finally) got my codex and have been taking a look through it. It doesn't feel very well thought out at some points. For example, Typhus's zombie hordes can't actually take any more models than the base included in the unit.

I'm wondering, are plaguemarines still worth taking? Here's what I've been thinking of running at 1500 points. I'll replace the Oblis with Havos when I get some.

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HQ:
Typhus, 230 points.

Dark Apostle, Burning Brand of Skalathrax, Veteran of the Long War, Mark of Nurgle. 150

Troops:
10x Plague Zombies. 50
10x Plague Zombies. 50
10x Plague Zombies. 50
10x Plague Zombies. 50

10x Chaos Space Marine, 2x Plasmagun, Meltabombs on champ, Rhino. 210
10x Chaos Space Marine, 2x Plasmagun, Meltabombs on champ, Rhino. 210

Elites:
6x Chaos Terminators, 2x Chainfist, 2x Powerfist, 2x Poweraxe, 2x Combimelta, Mark of Nurgle. 272

HS:
3x Obliterator, Mark of Nurgle (in their own units). 228

I'm not sure if I should play normal CSM or Plaguemarines. I'm a fan of plaguemarines but they're really pricy. I'm also not sure on the Terminators. If anyone has any other recommendations on who to stick Typhus with, I'd like to hear them.

[Cheesegear]

Comparing with GK isn't really fair since their codex is overflowing with cheap cheese, so I'll stick with comparing with other chaos units.

Wait...Are you implying that the Chaos Codex isn't full of cheap cheese? ...Sure. Right. I think you'll find that GKs are exactly what you need to compare them to.
The issue you're facing, is that Chosen in numbers aren't great because they are expensive. Same reason why people shouldn't field more than one unit of Paladins.

So for a cheap extra 10 points, the chosen have +1 LD and can actually melee pretty good. They can also take a second plasma gun relatively cheap and have two models to spare against enemy attacks.

They don't 'melee' at all since they have no Axes, Fists or Melta Bombs. Which are what counts in Assault because Terminators and Dreadnoughts are the only thing worth putting in Assault as of 6th. As for other stuff; Anything that strikes at a higher initiative or even simultaneously, and/or has more bodies than they have attacks will make them super sad.

Secondly, nearly every unit in the 'dex can be made Fearless for 25 points - and that's what people should generally spend their last 50 or so points on if they've got it.

Now I'm no saying they're OMGBORKED, but the extra cost seems worth it to me for the extra versatility and better morale.

They have no greater versatility than the normal Marines unless you pay for it. They only have an extra attack. Which is irrelevant (see above, 40K is for shooting) unless you kit them out with Assault weapons which, again, is even more points.

Don't forget you're also paying 265 points for Abaddon. Where as everyone else will be paying 110 Points for an ML3 Sorcerer (On what planet do GKs have something better than that?). So, that's a factor too.

[deuterio12]

Wait...Are you implying that the Chaos Codex isn't full of cheap cheese? ...Sure. Right. I think you'll find that GKs are exactly what you need to compare them to.

Well, the new chaos codex looks cheap yes, not so sure on the cheese. A chaos lord terminator runs you just 105 points, but you have no reliable way of droping him into the tick of battle. Sorcerer with ML 3 is very nice, but whitout Inv, 2 wounds and power armor he's kinda screaming to be sniped or assaulted, in particular when he will jump at any challenge. Unless you spend more points on some more upgrades.

I fondly await your more detailed review of the codex tough.

They don't 'melee' at all since they have no Axes, Fists or Melta Bombs. Which are what counts in Assault because Terminators and Dreadnoughts are the only thing worth putting in Assault as of 6th. As for other stuff;

Ork boyz, DE assault troops, other chaos players who will inevitably be fielding cultists/berzekers.

They have no greater versatility than the normal Marines unless you pay for it. They only have an extra attack. Which is irrelevant (see above, 40K is for shooting) unless you kit them out with Assault weapons which, again, is even more points.

They have two more attacks (2 base plus base CC+pistol+bolter, whereas regular CSM have to pay extra to get all three).

And again one extra LD.

Don't forget you're also paying 265 points for Abaddon. Where as everyone else will be paying 110 Points for an ML3 Sorcerer (On what planet do GKs have something better than that?). So, that's a factor too.

Well, Abaddon kinda looks worth those 265 points by himself, with pretty good combat stats and gear, and you can surely still find the 110 points for the ML 3 sorcerer plus him.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Ork boyz, DE assault troops, other chaos players who will inevitably be fielding cultists/berzekers.

You mean people who have already lost on army selection.

I know well enough from playing Black Templars that orks can't stand up to marines in ork numbers, even when half of those marines are only WS3 4+ save. 20 strong chaos units are less than 300 points and should be able to stand up to most things and have a good chance at beating terminators through weight of attacks.

Though I have beaten such a unit with 10 boltgun death company with 1 power fist, though they really wouldn't have been able to get through without me outnumbering my opponent due to him taking a few very expensive things..

[Borgh]

Well, Abaddon kinda looks worth those 265 points by himself, with pretty good combat stats and gear, and you can surely still find the 110 points for the ML 3 sorcerer plus him.

265 points is a lot.
Its ten more guys to sit on an objective.
its half a dozen nice terminators to get the oponent off his.
its a Guard allied detachment.
its two regular HQs
its a land raider (if you feel like bringing one)

so IMO either abbadon either needs to be able to punch out a Swarmlord or he is not worth it.

[deuterio12]

I know well enough from playing Black Templars that orks can't stand up to marines in ork numbers, even when half of those marines are only WS3 4+ save. 20 strong chaos units are less than 300 points and should be able to stand up to most things and have a good chance at beating terminators through weight of attacks.

BT have ATSKNF and are fearless in assault to boot. That makes all the diference, whereas a 20 man CSM squad with the new codex is screaming to go running away with a couple bad rolls . Even if you can tecnically buy them an icon of vengeance, it can be sniped off with relative ease.

265 points is a lot.
so IMO either abbadon either needs to be able to punch out a Swarmlord or he is not worth it.

Striking at the same speed than the swarmlord? Check.
7 attacks on the charge(and counter-attack)? Check.
Wounding on a 2+ with re-roll and ignoring the armor? Check.
4+Inv save and toughness 5 with 4 wounds with eternal warrior to resist any back blows? Check

Definetely not too shabby, the new Abaddon has a good chance of turning the Swarmlord into mincemeat if you ask me.

The problem is the chance he gets turned into a spawn or naked daemon prince after winning.

[Timberwolf]

The problem is the chance he gets turned into a spawn of naked daemon prince after winning.

Pre new Codex Abbadon should punch out the Swarmlord, let alone the new one. It's what he does. He's a horrendously expensive anti character / squad murder machine.

This occurance though, would be hilarious. I would gladly lose my 100 point standard Librarian to see him get spawned.

[Tychris1]

So, tested out a list I made today (Modelled after a particular running gag in my LFGS) and decided to write my first ever battle report. Hopefully I can sit down and do more in the future.

The Battle Report: Space Wolves vs. Slaanesh Chaos Marines

The Space Wolves forces (1.5K)

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5 Man squad of Longfangs: 4 rocket launchers

3 Squads of 5 Grey Hunters with plasma gunner in each squad

3 Thunderwolf Cavalry, one with Hammer/Shield, one with mark of the wulfen and CC weapon, one with power weapon

Stormraven

CC Dreadnaught (Embarked in Stormraven)

Logan Grimnar attached to a squad of 10 bloodclaws (Embarked in storm raven)

He wasn't sure whether or not he could take Stormravens so I just let it slide since he wasn't too good to begin with. He never officially showed me his list, and alot of things died too quickly for him to explain so one or two guys might have the wrong thing/missing something.

Chaos Lord Marky Mark and the Funky Bunch (1.5k):

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Lucius the Eternal/Marky Mark: 165 points

10 Noise Marines (The Noizy Boyz)
Gift of Mutation
Blastmaster
8 Sonic Blasters
9 CC weapons
Icon of Excess
Doom Siren
Power Weapon
10 Veterans of the Long War
Rhino
Combi Bolter
Melta Bombs
Total: 384 points

Another Noisy Boy Squad, same gear: 384 points

20 Cultist/ The Funky Bunch
2 Flamers
Total: 100 points

Another Cultist blob (More of the funky bunch): 100 points

6 Warp Talons (The Good vibrations)
6 Veteran of the Long War
6 Marks of Slaanesh
2 Gifts of Mutation
Total: 246 points

Maulerfiend (The beat beast): 125 points

Total: 1,504

Ironically, the only models in my army I bought a mark for was the Warp Talons, albeit the prevalence of them on troops and HQ's still held up the name "Marky Mark"

Pre Match

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We roll off and I get first picks at everything, we place terrain normally, trolling the other by say putting a forest in the middle of someone's fort but nothing too extreme. We go with kill points Hammer and Anvil and roll from their. Logan gets move through cover+stealth warlord trait (What good that served him). I decided to use new stuff so I used the chaos warlord traits, got D3 infiltratable units, get 2 units to infiltrate

From there we roll on the chaos boons table. BOTH OF MY NOISE CHAMPIONS WOULD HAVE BECOME DAEMON PRINCES :smallangry:. Instead one of them gets +1 BS (Cause he needs to be more accurate with that Doom Siren ), the other got multiple rewards getting 2 bonus rolls. From their he got +1 Toughness and a Fleshbane power sword, pretty sweet. My Warp Talon rolls on the chart, getting a +1 to his deny the witch and the other counting as a "unworthy gift" Snuck Lucius into a Rhino and infiltrated.

First Turn:

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Chaos Turn One:
My two chaos rhinos infiltrate 18 inches away from the enemy as the rest of my army begins barreling forward (12" moving Maulerfiends/Warp Talons feel amazing) as the Cultists start footslogging it through difficult terrain.

My Rhino vrooms forward, drops off the noisy boys with Lucius and shoots off a round at a Grey Hunter, doing nothing. The other Rhino moves up and does the same thing, actually killing the hunter in the process. Lucius and his mob move forward through terrain alongside the other Noisy squad before things really hit the fan.

First turn Lucius charges the Long Fangs with his squad, challenges the commander and watches as the commander accepts before having his whole squad summarily executed. Sadly, this only have a roll of a 12, so it was an unworthy gift, oh well. With the only Long Fang's dead the Maulerfiend brofists the Soulthief from across the map. The other squad of noisy boys can't quite make it into assault, so they settle with dropping the Grey hunter squad down to 2 guys.

Space Wolves Turn one:

Thunderwolf charge forward, Grey Hunters turn their attention towards the sudden insurgence of noise marines in their perimeter, and the Stormraven starts focusing down the Warp Talons. The two closest Grey Hunter squads shoot at the Lucius squad, tearing two guys apart, one of whom was the freaking awesome Fleshbane Champion . Seeing this as some kind of victory they charge the Noise Marines, none dropping from over watch but 3 immediately dieng from Lucius staring at them for too long. Another 2 drop from the butts of Noisy Boy rifles as the fist fight continues.

The Stormraven tore a hole through the Warp Talons with the combined force of a mindblast missile (Or something, was a S8 large blast weapon) and a hurricane Bolter. Killing 3 regular mooks and the champion. Fuuuuuun

With little left to do, First turn ended.

Conclusion: Daaaaayum, Lucius knocks MeQ on it's freaking rump when he's in a challenge. Heck, just tearing through them made him worth the points. Not to mention Shred+Hatred= Fun Times.

Turn Two:

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Chaos Turn Two:

The Forgefiend continues to act like a dog chasing the mail car around the street, running down the Stormraven and RIPPING IT TO PIECES. Wrecking it instantly. The crew safely disembark without a hitch and give the dog menacing glares for ruining the shiny toy.

Warp Talons change course and begin to fly up towards the Thunderwolf cavalry as the two cultist blobs changes destinations, one going to Logan and the other to the Thunderwolf cavalry. Not enough guns are within range so the Cultists just start running as the Warp Talons assault the Thunderwolves. I derp and forget I have Hammer of Wrath but whatever, *the Warp Talons kill the power weapon outright and drop the Stormshield down to 1 wound. They proceed to get obliterated immediately by the other two wolf cavalry.

Lucius and his rowdy noisy boys rip the grey hunters to shreds, consolidating towards the Bloodclaws. The other squad shoots the last remaining Grey Hunter squad and kills them all, shrieking in escatic glee.

Space Wolves Turn Two:

The CC Dreadnought looks rather angrily at the Maulerfiend, opting to charge the Maulerfiend and go into a Walker fisticuffs. It proceeds to say "GET DUNKED GET DUNKED GET DUNKED" and laugh at the Maulerfiends puny I3, popping 3 HP right in the Maulerfiends ugly muzzle. Exploding in the process.

Logan and his Bro Bloodclaws remain mostly unscratched, save one guy who drops dead. The Thunderwolf charge forward and assault the blob of Cultists, wiping out 8 of them (1 being the flamer 1 being the Champion). They remain unscratched, Cultists run away but manage to not run off the board.

Turn Three:

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Chaos Turn 3:
Cultists turn around and unload every shot they have into the Thunderwolf Cavalry, dropping the Wulfen Mark in the process. Rhinos vroom forward in order to take Linebreaker unimpeded. Cultists + Lucius Squad begin to encircle Logan and his Bloodclaws, shooting the Bloodclaws apart in the process. The last Noisy boy squad turns to face the CC Dreadnought.

Space Wolves Turn 3: The CC dreadnought charges down the Noisy Boys, a malevolent grin on the Space wolf players face. I merely ask him what the Initiative of his Dreadnought is. He says 4. 1 Melta bomb to the face and the Dreadnought was no more. With a wounded squad of Bloodclaws, Logan Grimnar, and a half Dead Thunderwolf Cavalry the space wolf player surrenders, retreating with his tail between his legs.

Conclusion: New Slaanesh feels awesome, and the Warlord Traits are defenitely a buff over the original ones. Warp Talons definetely aren't quite as good as I was hoping for, so I think i'll trade them in for a Terminator squad with perhaps a Land Raider. Lucius is awesome aswell, but the nerf to Power swords makes me sad. I'm thinking of maybe swapping him out for a Termie lord, any suggestions for what gear I should fit the lord with?

Also, chaos boon table is tons of fun .

[deuterio12]

Indeed, games with chaos from now on shall be pretty hilarious because every single character and unit champion has a chance of turning into a spawn/naked daemon prince when they kill an enemy character (also works for shooting if you can land a good hit)!

Your cultist leader turning into a daemon prince? MUAHAHAHAHA!

Your 200+ points character turning into a daemon prince? OH GODS WHY?

And now that I do the math, is a 1/9 chance of either spawnhood or daemonhood every time it triggers!

[Renegade Paladin]

How has Abaddon lasted for ten thousand years of killing dudes if every time he kills one he has a 1/9 chance of turning into a gibbering mess?

[Penguinizer]

How has Abaddon lasted for ten thousand years of killing dudes if every time he kills one he has a 1/9 chance of turning into a gibbering mess?

He clearly had Banner of Terror and Favor of the Gods.

Anyways, I was wondering just how much weirdness can be chalked up to stuff that was unintentionally clunky or seemed better on paper. Stuff like Dark Apostles having the option to take Veteran's of the Long War or Plague Zombies not getting extra models.

[Cheesegear]

Well, the new chaos codex looks cheap yes, not so sure on the cheese. A chaos lord terminator runs you just 105 points, but you have no reliable way of droping him into the tick of battle.

Who said a Terminator Lord was cheese? I'm not sure you were looking very hard. Slaanesh Bikers will mess face, as do Noise Marines. Have you looked at Cultists yet and how they break army comp? Have you seen Chosen (x5) with Lascannon for 105 Points times 3? Have you seen that every unit in the 'dex gets Preferred Enemy against the most ubiquitous armies in the game for extremely cheap? Is there a specific reason that Havocs cost the same as Long Fangs even though Chaos gets Heavy weapons in its squads anyway?

Ork boyz, DE assault troops, other chaos players who will inevitably be fielding cultists/berzekers.

Did you not read the rest of that sentence? Orks are not afraid of 6 models with three attacks each. DE Assault Troops are not a thing. Even if they are, they're striking first and even a single Agoniser will cut you down to three models, and if Wyches are in Assault, they've got a 4+ save.

Boltguns are where it's at when dealing with hordes. You don't Assault a horde. Don't play their game when Marines already have a gameplan that beats Orks everytime.

They have two more attacks (2 base plus base CC+pistol+bolter, whereas regular CSM have to pay extra to get all three).

Irrelevant. Because Assault without special weapons or lots of models doesn't matter.

And again one extra LD.

Fearless for 25 points. Or just put the Champion at the back so he doesn't take wounds. Unless you're losing Assault, Leadership doesn't matter anyway. You can be unlucky, but so can everyone.

Well, Abaddon kinda looks worth those 265 points by himself, with pretty good combat stats and gear, and you can surely still find the 110 points for the ML 3 sorcerer plus him.

But what do you do with Abaddon? So far it's basically already figured out that Chosen are inferior to regular Marines or Noise Marines. Again, like Paladins, Chosen are just too expensive for very little benefit. But, Draigo and Abaddon still rock face, so you can still include them, but where do you put them?
Draigo has Purifiers and Terminators he can roll with.
Abaddon does not.