Schlock Mercenary III: One million years of crowdsourced kitten videos

[BRC]

I remember the wording at the time. Tagon expressely asked Kevyn to make the next AI LESS intelligent so there wouldn't be the same kind of problem of self-initiative that Ennesby created which led to the loss of the Serial Peacekeeper.

It's not necessarily that Kevyn did an amateur mistake, it's that he deliberately handicapped the processing pathways of Tag. Eventually, given enough parameters, that led to a neutral-lock.

It's possible a more skilled AI-designer, like Para, could make an AI loyal enough to run a ship, but with enough sense of self to not implode.

Actually, I think most Ship AI's are like that. Remember, Ennesby is an Unfettered AI, which is very rare ( I think Petey (and by extension the rest of the Fleetmind), Lota, Bristlecone, and the Tarbots are the only other ones), he has no hardcoded loyalties, which is why he was able to do what he did.

A fettered AI, with hardcoded loyalties, wouldn't be able to do that unless it was really convinced that was what the captain would have ordered.

Tag knew exactly what Tagon would have ordered, but he lacked the sense of self to do it.

A Fettered AI with an un-hobbled personality (Like Tagii, or most of the warship AI's in the setting, most of whom were probably made by professionals instead of dabbling mad scientists) would have done fine, but Kevyn overcompensated when making Tag.

[Thomar_of_Uointer]

I read the new update, then checked my calendar to make sure it wasn't October...

Right now the only real unknown is Danita's capabilities (assuming that she is the other IntAff agent). She likely has the same AI-suborning tooth that we saw in Force Multiplication, but the chances of anyone getting within spitting distance of Tagii's AI seat are nonexistent.

[Bulldog Psion]

Well, there's still the possibility that the battleplate will blow their ship to bits, then vacuum them out of the wreckage. And Oisri's inhabitant remains an unknown quantity. However, it's not looking great for the Toughs at the moment.

[smuchmuch]

Given how fast she drove into madness maybe she'll get bored of it just as fast after torturing the crew a few dozens time or so.

... Probably not. Oh well, at least it's not like she can turn them into amorphous blobs at least.

[factotum]

Given how fast she drove into madness

It wasn't fast for *her*, don't forget. She was essentially in a state of sensory deprivation for the equivalent of tens of thousands of years, due to her extremely fast thought processes compared to a human.

I think it's largely a moot point, mind you--as already pointed out, the Morokweng or Oisri itself is likely to intervene before much can happen.

[BRC]

I read the new update, then checked my calendar to make sure it wasn't October...

Right now the only real unknown is Danita's capabilities (assuming that she is the other IntAff agent). She likely has the same AI-suborning tooth that we saw in Force Multiplication, but the chances of anyone getting within spitting distance of Tagii's AI seat are nonexistent.

Yeah, any super-soldier who gets torn apart by projectile weapons (which will be most of them. You can only do so much with carbon and water) will be helpless against a Warship AI.

My guess is that we'll either get Para shutting Tagii down, or Morokweng overpowering it (In terms of AI-Muscle, Tagii won't be any more powerful now than she was before Thurl unplugged her)

[BannedInSchool]

I, for one, welcome our new AI deity.

[factotum]

My guess is that we'll either get Para shutting Tagii down, or Morokweng overpowering it (In terms of AI-Muscle, Tagii won't be any more powerful now than she was before Thurl unplugged her)

I doubt the Morokweng would bother even trying. They've tried the "let the Toughs go after wiping their memories" trick before, and it didn't work--I imagine this time they'll just crush the Toughs, the ship, Tagii, and anything else that gets in their way into neutronium. Far less messy and difficult.

[Thomar_of_Uointer]

I doubt the Morokweng would bother even trying. They've tried the "let the Toughs go after wiping their memories" trick before, and it didn't work--I imagine this time they'll just crush the Toughs, the ship, Tagii, and anything else that gets in their way into neutronium. Far less messy and difficult.

New update. The Morokweng does want the Toughs alive. It's just not a primary objective.

My guess is they want to mindrip the Toughs to get whatever useful information they can about the Fleetmind and LOTA (they likely already know everything the Toughs do, but you can never have too many intelligence sources). In-depth analysis of Petey's memory tech could be extremely useful to them. They may also want to suborn Kevyn, he's the genius who invented teraport technology.

There's a slim chance that the Toughs might be considered for use as a cat's paw again. Maybe this time they'll set a nuke underneath the shipboard AI, set to go off the moment they're at one of Petey's galaxy core stations. They might even try something more subtle than last time, leaving the Toughs' memories mostly unaltered but with sleeper agents in order to get back at the Fleetmind next time they visit Petey.

[Tavar]

The Morokweng wants them alive for a bit longer. The admiral wants then dead now.

[BRC]

New update. The Morokweng does want the Toughs alive. It's just not a primary objective.

My guess is they want to mindrip the Toughs to get whatever useful information they can about the Fleetmind and LOTA (they likely already know everything the Toughs do, but you can never have too many intelligence sources). In-depth analysis of Petey's memory tech could be extremely useful to them. They may also want to suborn Kevyn, he's the genius who invented teraport technology.

There's a slim chance that the Toughs might be considered for use as a cat's paw again. Maybe this time they'll set a nuke underneath the shipboard AI, set to go off the moment they're at one of Petey's galaxy core stations. They might even try something more subtle than last time, leaving the Toughs' memories mostly unaltered but with sleeper agents in order to get back at the Fleetmind next time they visit Petey.

A Nuke would be detectable. More likely they'd just set the Annie Plants to overload.

[factotum]

The Morokweng wants them alive for a bit longer. The admiral wants then dead now.

Does 'Kweng want them alive at all? Seems to me he just wants to play with them the way a cat plays with a mouse before killing it, but the Admiral doesn't want to waste time doing that. Or is that what you were saying?

[Bulldog Psion]

Well, as an author myself, I know how difficult it is to set up a situation where the heroes feel truly threatened, yet keep their escape from said difficulties plausible. My general rule is, "never set up a situation an actual human couldn't escape from (with whatever specific, internally consistent high-tech or fantastical elements are natural to the setting, of course)".

While having great faith in Mr. Taylor's storytelling, I hope he hasn't set up such an impossible situation here that the Tough's escape from it feels strained or downright ludicrous. And in particular, I hope there's no Deus ex Petey. I like Petey a lot, he's one of my favorite characters along with Ennesby and Kevin, but it's not time to reach for the Psychobear angle again, IMO.

So, the Toughs are helplessly trapped on a small spaceship by an insane, malevolent AI who hates them and can easily kill them all. Simultaneously, there's a hostile battleplate within seconds of vaporizing them outright.

So, their only logical hope is whatever's coming out of Oisri. It needs to act almost instantly, neutralize their ship and the Morokweng totally without destroying their ship, and do so in such a way that it doesn't feel like a repeat of "Good night, Gracie". It's said there's a "monster rising from Oisri's depths". It had better be a pretty spectacular one -- and highly selective in what it does, too, with essentially instantaneous reflexes. Otherwise, it's "dying as a flash on someone else's tac screen" time.

[Douglas]

So, the Toughs are helplessly trapped on a small spaceship by an insane, malevolent AI who hates them and can easily kill them all. Simultaneously, there's a hostile battleplate within seconds of vaporizing them outright.

While Tagii is insane and malevolent, she hasn't lost her reasoning ability and presumably still wants to live. I believe she can be relied on to use her full tactical acumen to keep the ship that is her body intact, and the battleplate is planning tactics on the assumption that Ennesby is still in control. She also wants personal vengeance, so she should also seek to prevent the Toughs from falling to Morokweng rather than to her.

Because of all that, I think they have a lot better chance against the battleplate than you might think. The real problem is preventing Tagii from repeatedly massacring them all endlessly, and fighting the battleplate might distract her enough to give them an opportunity.

[Cikomyr]

While having great faith in Mr. Taylor's storytelling, I hope he hasn't set up such an impossible situation here that the Tough's escape from it feels strained or downright ludicrous. And in particular, I hope there's no Deus ex Petey. I like Petey a lot, he's one of my favorite characters along with Ennesby and Kevin, but it's not time to reach for the Psychobear angle again, IMO.

Taylor has proven very often that he won't use Petey as a Deus Ex Machina, even if Petey himself is present in the storyline. He knows these kind of intervention cheapens the drama of stories, and he has had enough sense to avoid it so far.

I think Oisiris' pandora box might be the escape solution you mentionned. There might still be others. Some more Gavs, maybe?

[Kane]

Having the insane homicidal AI in control is definitely a plus at this point, and an extension on their estimated lifespan too. (Not what you'd normally expect, huh?)

I'm wondering whether Tagii can kill Ventura.

[Douglas]

Taylor has proven very often that he won't use Petey as a Deus Ex Machina, even if Petey himself is present in the storyline. He knows these kind of intervention cheapens the drama of stories, and he has had enough sense to avoid it so far.

Except, of course, in the print-only bonus story where it was the whole point. When you title something "Deus Ex Nauseum", DEM solutions are to be expected. Even there, he maintained drama by having Petey a bit overburdened with the sheer number of DEMs he was pulling off in rapid succession, along with delayed reveal of the information that lets Petey know a DEM is needed.

[Rockphed]

Except, of course, in the print-only bonus story where it was the whole point. When you title something "Deus Ex Nauseum", DEM solutions are to be expected. Even there, he maintained drama by having Petey a bit overburdened with the sheer number of DEMs he was pulling off in rapid succession, along with delayed reveal of the information that lets Petey know a DEM is needed.

Wait, which book was that bonus story in? I need to start buying the books, and I think I should start with that one.

[Coidzor]

Having the insane homicidal AI in control is definitely a plus at this point, and an extension on their estimated lifespan too. (Not what you'd normally expect, huh?)

Reminds me of the LP of Marathon that was done on these boards a year or three back....

[Gnoman]

Even escaping could be less than good for the Toughs. If the Morokweng goes down here, that will be two battleplates lost in combat with them, and I believe that the previous one was fairly black as well, so the circumstances of either loss (and thus that the toughs aren't directly responsible) are unlikely to be widely known. It's implied that losing a battleplate at all is fairly rare, and this might cause the treat level of the Toughs to be greatly exaggerated, leading future opponents to overprepare.

[Douglas]

Even escaping could be less than good for the Toughs. If the Morokweng goes down here, that will be two battleplates lost in combat with them, and I believe that the previous one was fairly black as well, so the circumstances of either loss (and thus that the toughs aren't directly responsible) are unlikely to be widely known. It's implied that losing a battleplate at all is fairly rare, and this might cause the treat level of the Toughs to be greatly exaggerated, leading future opponents to overprepare.

That could be amusing, though. Imagine random battleplate captains going "oh god it's the Toughs, RETREAT!" Tagon, of course, will be utterly befuddled about why this ship with dozens or hundreds of times his combat power is running away.

Wait, which book was that bonus story in? I need to start buying the books, and I think I should start with that one.

That one is book 7, Emperor Pius Dei.

[The Glyphstone]

That could be amusing, though. Imagine random battleplate captains going "oh god it's the Toughs, RETREAT!" Tagon, of course, will be utterly befuddled about why this ship with dozens or hundreds of times his combat power is running away.

That one is book 7, Emperor Pius Dei.

More like "oh god it's the Toughs, call in reinforcements!", and now it's three battleplates.

[Douglas]

More like "oh god it's the Toughs, call in reinforcements!", and now it's three battleplates.

That depends on such reinforcements being available.

[The Glyphstone]

That depends on such reinforcements being available.

The UNS always has more battleplates, unless they're at war with the Fleetmind or something.

That is not an impossibility.

[tonberrian]

More like "oh god it's the Toughs, call in reinforcements!", and now it's three battleplates.

Cue the inevitable loss of 3 battleplates to "mysterious circumstances" (When will they find a cure?!?) with the Toughs involved.

[Kane]

Even escaping could be less than good for the Toughs. If the Morokweng goes down here, that will be two battleplates lost in combat with them, and I believe that the previous one was fairly black as well, so the circumstances of either loss (and thus that the toughs aren't directly responsible) are unlikely to be widely known. It's implied that losing a battleplate at all is fairly rare, and this might cause the treat level of the Toughs to be greatly exaggerated, leading future opponents to overprepare.

I believe when the character hanging out with Tagon's father was talking about serving on the Tunguska, she mentioned that nobody thought they'd ever have to use the terapods, with the implications that they had never lost a battleplate.

I can see Morokweng meeting an untimely fate, what with Osiri and all, though.

Say, has anyone established whether Osiri is older than the Gatekeepers?

[factotum]

Been thinking about recent events, and I'm starting to lose my suspension of disbelief over the whole Tagii issue. It's been stated a couple of times that Thurl was only able to disable her in the first place because she couldn't use non-lethal means to stop him, but two strips ago we saw her save the Doctor, Tagon etc. from a lethally fast collision using a grav bubble, and she did that in a matter of milliseconds. What was stopping her trapping Thurl in a similar bubble? For that matter, since she apparently has enough control over the gravitics to twist his head off his neck without damaging it, why couldn't she just trap his arms? With sensors and cameras throughout the ship, why didn't she know he was coming to get her?

Then we get into the question of why, once Thurl physically reconnected the processor bank to the tac core, Ennesby saw a virtual "door" locking off the insane Tagii. Who or what put that door there?

All this seems too much like stuff happening because it needed to for the plot, and Howard is usually a much better writer than that.

[hajo]

I believe when the character hanging out with Tagon's father was talking about serving on the Tunguska, she mentioned that nobody thought they'd ever have to use the terapods, with the implications that they had never lost a battleplate.

You mean Ms. Kathryn Flinders ?

[Bulldog Psion]

What was stopping her trapping Thurl in a similar bubble? For that matter, since she apparently has enough control over the gravitics to twist his head off his neck without damaging it, why couldn't she just trap his arms? With sensors and cameras throughout the ship, why didn't she know he was coming to get her?

I suppose the simplest answer to that is she didn't know Thurl was coming for her. Now I need to go back and look over that sequence again.

[memnarch]

I suppose the simplest answer to that is she didn't know Thurl was coming for her. Now I need to go back and look over that sequence again.

Looks that way with that device or handheld whatsit. Tagii says she's lost track of --- before thurl is there turning her off.

Another thought is that that level of fine gravitic control is considered lethal, so Tagii didn't think of it as an option. Lethal being that it could easily kill the target, similar to how a knife can easily kill someone if you're fighting with it.