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2012-12-11, 08:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Schlock Mercenary III: One million years of crowdsourced kitten videos
It's possible a more skilled AI-designer, like Para, could make an AI loyal enough to run a ship, but with enough sense of self to not implode.
Actually, I think most Ship AI's are like that. Remember, Ennesby is an Unfettered AI, which is very rare ( I think Petey (and by extension the rest of the Fleetmind), Lota, Bristlecone, and the Tarbots are the only other ones), he has no hardcoded loyalties, which is why he was able to do what he did.
A fettered AI, with hardcoded loyalties, wouldn't be able to do that unless it was really convinced that was what the captain would have ordered.
Tag knew exactly what Tagon would have ordered, but he lacked the sense of self to do it.
A Fettered AI with an un-hobbled personality (Like Tagii, or most of the warship AI's in the setting, most of whom were probably made by professionals instead of dabbling mad scientists) would have done fine, but Kevyn overcompensated when making Tag.
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2012-12-11, 10:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2005
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Re: Schlock Mercenary III: One million years of crowdsourced kitten videos
I read the new update, then checked my calendar to make sure it wasn't October...
Right now the only real unknown is Danita's capabilities (assuming that she is the other IntAff agent). She likely has the same AI-suborning tooth that we saw in Force Multiplication, but the chances of anyone getting within spitting distance of Tagii's AI seat are nonexistent.Last edited by Thomar_of_Uointer; 2012-12-11 at 10:06 PM.
I make games.
"...I worry that modern gaming is gradually shrinking the wide spectrum of gameplay mechanics into a single narrow red bar with "KILL" written on it sideways. Exploration, navigation, puzzles, platforming, all gradually shrinking away until only one thing remains, being taken by the hand from room to room, moving on only when nothing remains alive in each one." - Yhatzee Crosshaw
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2012-12-12, 03:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2011
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- Wisconsin, USA
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Re: Schlock Mercenary III: One million years of crowdsourced kitten videos
Well, there's still the possibility that the battleplate will blow their ship to bits, then vacuum them out of the wreckage. And Oisri's inhabitant remains an unknown quantity. However, it's not looking great for the Toughs at the moment.
Spoiler
So the song runs on, with shift and change,
Through the years that have no name,
And the late notes soar to a higher range,
But the theme is still the same.
Man's battle-cry and the guns' reply
Blend in with the old, old rhyme
That was traced in the score of the strata marks
While millenniums winked like campfire sparks
Down the winds of unguessed time. -- 4th Stanza, The Bad Lands, Badger Clark
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2012-12-12, 04:16 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2009
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- ??Ph??
Re: Schlock Mercenary III: One million years of crowdsourced kitten videos
Given how fast she drove into madness maybe she'll get bored of it just as fast after torturing the crew a few dozens time or so.
... Probably not. Oh well, at least it's not like she can turn them into amorphous blobs at least.Last edited by smuchmuch; 2012-12-12 at 04:17 AM.
I'm sig'ing in the rain, just sig'ing in the rain....
Somme old avatars, by meSpoiler
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2012-12-12, 04:21 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
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- Manchester, UK
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Re: Schlock Mercenary III: One million years of crowdsourced kitten videos
It wasn't fast for *her*, don't forget. She was essentially in a state of sensory deprivation for the equivalent of tens of thousands of years, due to her extremely fast thought processes compared to a human.
I think it's largely a moot point, mind you--as already pointed out, the Morokweng or Oisri itself is likely to intervene before much can happen.
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2012-12-12, 11:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2007
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- On Paper
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Re: Schlock Mercenary III: One million years of crowdsourced kitten videos
Yeah, any super-soldier who gets torn apart by projectile weapons (which will be most of them. You can only do so much with carbon and water) will be helpless against a Warship AI.
My guess is that we'll either get Para shutting Tagii down, or Morokweng overpowering it (In terms of AI-Muscle, Tagii won't be any more powerful now than she was before Thurl unplugged her)
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2012-12-12, 01:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2012
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Re: Schlock Mercenary III: One million years of crowdsourced kitten videos
I, for one, welcome our new AI deity.
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2012-12-12, 05:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
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- Manchester, UK
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Re: Schlock Mercenary III: One million years of crowdsourced kitten videos
I doubt the Morokweng would bother even trying. They've tried the "let the Toughs go after wiping their memories" trick before, and it didn't work--I imagine this time they'll just crush the Toughs, the ship, Tagii, and anything else that gets in their way into neutronium. Far less messy and difficult.
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2012-12-12, 11:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2005
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Re: Schlock Mercenary III: One million years of crowdsourced kitten videos
New update. The Morokweng does want the Toughs alive. It's just not a primary objective.
My guess is they want to mindrip the Toughs to get whatever useful information they can about the Fleetmind and LOTA (they likely already know everything the Toughs do, but you can never have too many intelligence sources). In-depth analysis of Petey's memory tech could be extremely useful to them. They may also want to suborn Kevyn, he's the genius who invented teraport technology.
There's a slim chance that the Toughs might be considered for use as a cat's paw again. Maybe this time they'll set a nuke underneath the shipboard AI, set to go off the moment they're at one of Petey's galaxy core stations. They might even try something more subtle than last time, leaving the Toughs' memories mostly unaltered but with sleeper agents in order to get back at the Fleetmind next time they visit Petey.Last edited by Thomar_of_Uointer; 2012-12-12 at 11:27 PM.
I make games.
"...I worry that modern gaming is gradually shrinking the wide spectrum of gameplay mechanics into a single narrow red bar with "KILL" written on it sideways. Exploration, navigation, puzzles, platforming, all gradually shrinking away until only one thing remains, being taken by the hand from room to room, moving on only when nothing remains alive in each one." - Yhatzee Crosshaw
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2012-12-13, 12:13 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2009
Re: Schlock Mercenary III: One million years of crowdsourced kitten videos
The Morokweng wants them alive for a bit longer. The admiral wants then dead now.
He fears his fate too much, and his reward is small, who will not put it to the touch, to win or lose it all.
-James Graham, 1st Marquess of Montrose
Satomi by Elagune
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2012-12-13, 12:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2007
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- On Paper
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Re: Schlock Mercenary III: One million years of crowdsourced kitten videos
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2012-12-13, 03:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
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- Manchester, UK
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Re: Schlock Mercenary III: One million years of crowdsourced kitten videos
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2012-12-13, 08:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2011
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- Wisconsin, USA
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Re: Schlock Mercenary III: One million years of crowdsourced kitten videos
Well, as an author myself, I know how difficult it is to set up a situation where the heroes feel truly threatened, yet keep their escape from said difficulties plausible. My general rule is, "never set up a situation an actual human couldn't escape from (with whatever specific, internally consistent high-tech or fantastical elements are natural to the setting, of course)".
While having great faith in Mr. Taylor's storytelling, I hope he hasn't set up such an impossible situation here that the Tough's escape from it feels strained or downright ludicrous. And in particular, I hope there's no Deus ex Petey. I like Petey a lot, he's one of my favorite characters along with Ennesby and Kevin, but it's not time to reach for the Psychobear angle again, IMO.
So, the Toughs are helplessly trapped on a small spaceship by an insane, malevolent AI who hates them and can easily kill them all. Simultaneously, there's a hostile battleplate within seconds of vaporizing them outright.
So, their only logical hope is whatever's coming out of Oisri. It needs to act almost instantly, neutralize their ship and the Morokweng totally without destroying their ship, and do so in such a way that it doesn't feel like a repeat of "Good night, Gracie". It's said there's a "monster rising from Oisri's depths". It had better be a pretty spectacular one -- and highly selective in what it does, too, with essentially instantaneous reflexes. Otherwise, it's "dying as a flash on someone else's tac screen" time.Spoiler
So the song runs on, with shift and change,
Through the years that have no name,
And the late notes soar to a higher range,
But the theme is still the same.
Man's battle-cry and the guns' reply
Blend in with the old, old rhyme
That was traced in the score of the strata marks
While millenniums winked like campfire sparks
Down the winds of unguessed time. -- 4th Stanza, The Bad Lands, Badger Clark
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2012-12-13, 09:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2005
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- Mountain View, CA
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Re: Schlock Mercenary III: One million years of crowdsourced kitten videos
While Tagii is insane and malevolent, she hasn't lost her reasoning ability and presumably still wants to live. I believe she can be relied on to use her full tactical acumen to keep the ship that is her body intact, and the battleplate is planning tactics on the assumption that Ennesby is still in control. She also wants personal vengeance, so she should also seek to prevent the Toughs from falling to Morokweng rather than to her.
Because of all that, I think they have a lot better chance against the battleplate than you might think. The real problem is preventing Tagii from repeatedly massacring them all endlessly, and fighting the battleplate might distract her enough to give them an opportunity.Like 4X (aka Civilization-like) gaming? Know programming? Interested in game development? Take a look.
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2012-12-13, 10:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2012
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- Montreal
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Re: Schlock Mercenary III: One million years of crowdsourced kitten videos
Taylor has proven very often that he won't use Petey as a Deus Ex Machina, even if Petey himself is present in the storyline. He knows these kind of intervention cheapens the drama of stories, and he has had enough sense to avoid it so far.
I think Oisiris' pandora box might be the escape solution you mentionned. There might still be others. Some more Gavs, maybe?
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2012-12-13, 11:54 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2008
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- AKA 'Santiago'
Re: Schlock Mercenary III: One million years of crowdsourced kitten videos
Having the insane homicidal AI in control is definitely a plus at this point, and an extension on their estimated lifespan too. (Not what you'd normally expect, huh?)
I'm wondering whether Tagii can kill Ventura."Simon Ten Broek loves to draw attention;
Simon Ten Broek spent years in bleak detention;
Simon Ten Broek, with crimes too vile to mention;
Simon Ten Broek won't live to see his pension."
10:07 PM [Matthias] And the Kohr-Ah are all "GIT THEM DUKE BOYS!"
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2012-12-13, 03:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2005
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Re: Schlock Mercenary III: One million years of crowdsourced kitten videos
Except, of course, in the print-only bonus story where it was the whole point. When you title something "Deus Ex Nauseum", DEM solutions are to be expected. Even there, he maintained drama by having Petey a bit overburdened with the sheer number of DEMs he was pulling off in rapid succession, along with delayed reveal of the information that lets Petey know a DEM is needed.
Like 4X (aka Civilization-like) gaming? Know programming? Interested in game development? Take a look.
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Arcane Swordsage: Making it actually work (homebrew)
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2012-12-13, 07:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2006
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- Watching the world go by
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Re: Schlock Mercenary III: One million years of crowdsourced kitten videos
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2012-12-13, 07:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
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- Xin-Shalast
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2012-12-13, 09:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2010
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- Toledo, Ohio
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Re: Schlock Mercenary III: One million years of crowdsourced kitten videos
Even escaping could be less than good for the Toughs. If the Morokweng goes down here, that will be two battleplates lost in combat with them, and I believe that the previous one was fairly black as well, so the circumstances of either loss (and thus that the toughs aren't directly responsible) are unlikely to be widely known. It's implied that losing a battleplate at all is fairly rare, and this might cause the treat level of the Toughs to be greatly exaggerated, leading future opponents to overprepare.
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2012-12-13, 11:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2005
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Re: Schlock Mercenary III: One million years of crowdsourced kitten videos
That could be amusing, though. Imagine random battleplate captains going "oh god it's the Toughs, RETREAT!" Tagon, of course, will be utterly befuddled about why this ship with dozens or hundreds of times his combat power is running away.
That one is book 7, Emperor Pius Dei.Last edited by Douglas; 2012-12-13 at 11:25 PM.
Like 4X (aka Civilization-like) gaming? Know programming? Interested in game development? Take a look.
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2012-12-13, 11:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2005
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Re: Schlock Mercenary III: One million years of crowdsourced kitten videos
NOW COMPLETE: Let's Play Starcraft II Trilogy:
Hell, It's About Time: Wings of Liberty
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2012-12-13, 11:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2005
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- Mountain View, CA
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Re: Schlock Mercenary III: One million years of crowdsourced kitten videos
Like 4X (aka Civilization-like) gaming? Know programming? Interested in game development? Take a look.
Avatar by Ceika.
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Isstinen Tonche for ECL 74 playtesting.
Team Solars: Powergaming beyond your wildest imagining, without infinite loops or epic. Yes, the DM asked for it.
Arcane Swordsage: Making it actually work (homebrew)
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2012-12-13, 11:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2005
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Re: Schlock Mercenary III: One million years of crowdsourced kitten videos
NOW COMPLETE: Let's Play Starcraft II Trilogy:
Hell, It's About Time: Wings of Liberty
Does This Mutation Make Me Look Fat: Heart of the Swarm
My Life For Aiur? I Barely Know 'Er: Legacy of the Void
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2012-12-14, 12:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2008
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Re: Schlock Mercenary III: One million years of crowdsourced kitten videos
Last edited by tonberrian; 2012-12-14 at 12:20 AM.
The name is "tonberrian", even when it begins a sentence. It's magic, I ain't gotta 'splain why.
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2012-12-14, 02:19 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2008
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- AKA 'Santiago'
Re: Schlock Mercenary III: One million years of crowdsourced kitten videos
I believe when the character hanging out with Tagon's father was talking about serving on the Tunguska, she mentioned that nobody thought they'd ever have to use the terapods, with the implications that they had never lost a battleplate.
I can see Morokweng meeting an untimely fate, what with Osiri and all, though.
Say, has anyone established whether Osiri is older than the Gatekeepers?"Simon Ten Broek loves to draw attention;
Simon Ten Broek spent years in bleak detention;
Simon Ten Broek, with crimes too vile to mention;
Simon Ten Broek won't live to see his pension."
10:07 PM [Matthias] And the Kohr-Ah are all "GIT THEM DUKE BOYS!"
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2012-12-14, 03:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
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- Manchester, UK
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Re: Schlock Mercenary III: One million years of crowdsourced kitten videos
Been thinking about recent events, and I'm starting to lose my suspension of disbelief over the whole Tagii issue. It's been stated a couple of times that Thurl was only able to disable her in the first place because she couldn't use non-lethal means to stop him, but two strips ago we saw her save the Doctor, Tagon etc. from a lethally fast collision using a grav bubble, and she did that in a matter of milliseconds. What was stopping her trapping Thurl in a similar bubble? For that matter, since she apparently has enough control over the gravitics to twist his head off his neck without damaging it, why couldn't she just trap his arms? With sensors and cameras throughout the ship, why didn't she know he was coming to get her?
Then we get into the question of why, once Thurl physically reconnected the processor bank to the tac core, Ennesby saw a virtual "door" locking off the insane Tagii. Who or what put that door there?
All this seems too much like stuff happening because it needed to for the plot, and Howard is usually a much better writer than that.
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2012-12-14, 05:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2007
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- DE
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Re: Schlock Mercenary III: One million years of crowdsourced kitten videos
You mean Ms. Kathryn Flinders ?
-HaJo
FLW: Oh, no. We're being rescued. How embarrassing!
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2012-12-14, 12:32 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2011
- Location
- Wisconsin, USA
- Gender
Re: Schlock Mercenary III: One million years of crowdsourced kitten videos
Spoiler
So the song runs on, with shift and change,
Through the years that have no name,
And the late notes soar to a higher range,
But the theme is still the same.
Man's battle-cry and the guns' reply
Blend in with the old, old rhyme
That was traced in the score of the strata marks
While millenniums winked like campfire sparks
Down the winds of unguessed time. -- 4th Stanza, The Bad Lands, Badger Clark
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2012-12-14, 12:49 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2007
- Location
- In the mind.
Re: Schlock Mercenary III: One million years of crowdsourced kitten videos
Looks that way with that device or handheld whatsit. Tagii says she's lost track of --- before thurl is there turning her off.
Another thought is that that level of fine gravitic control is considered lethal, so Tagii didn't think of it as an option. Lethal being that it could easily kill the target, similar to how a knife can easily kill someone if you're fighting with it.If you want a OotS style Touhou avatar, send me a request.
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