The Hobbit Film... trilogy.

[MLai]

In current LOTR rpgs and mmos, is it assumed that unlike how the novels depict, after Sauron fell the orcs/goblins/trolls never magically died out?

Or are the games simply always set before/during the War of the Ring?

[grimbold]

they never did die out
they were cast out to their holes in the mountains

[oblivion6]

yeah i believe the orcs and all the rest just scattered back to their holes after the war but still remain in scattered tribes here and there.

i believe all the games take place during the war. the exception to this is the MMO which takes place early in the 3rd age before the war?

[Avilan the Grey]

In current LOTR rpgs and mmos, is it assumed that unlike how the novels depict, after Sauron fell the orcs/goblins/trolls never magically died out?

Or are the games simply always set before/during the War of the Ring?

I remember that in Bilbo it was heavily implied that Orcs and Gobins simply faded away, but are not completely gone, and simply became the trolls and goblins of modern fairytales in "modern" England.

In LOTR I think it is described a little differently, but basically their will to fight was broken, some just laid down to die, some ran away, some tried to fight but was cut down... etc. But yes, they breed like normal mammals, so they didn't just die out because Sauron wasn't around anymore.

[grimbold]

Avilan, how do you know that orcs breed as normal mammals?

[VanBuren]

Avilan, how do you know that orcs breed as normal mammals?

I'd say because half-orcs wouldn't make sense otherwise, but we all know that sort of thing is hardly an impediment.

Orcs get Darkvision, Elves get Low-light vision, Humans get... that. We're such a weird race.

[Avilan the Grey]

Avilan, how do you know that orcs breed as normal mammals?

Because Tolkien said so.

[t209]

for me this is the crux of the entire novel

In addition,

Spoiler

Show

he managed to get badass and redeem himself before his death.

[Gnoman]

Avilan, how do you know that orcs breed as normal mammals?

Orcs are simply a degenerate breed of elves ruined by Morgoth. Elves breed like any other animal, thus Orcs do. That pod nonsense in the Two Towers film had no basis in the books.

[grimbold]

well...
does that imply there are female orcs? (thats what always confused me TBH)

[Gnoman]

In theory, yes. We never see any female dwarves either, yet they canonically exist.

[snoopy13a]

Orcs are simply a degenerate breed of elves ruined by Morgoth. Elves breed like any other animal, thus Orcs do. That pod nonsense in the Two Towers film had no basis in the books.

The corrupted elf theory is in The Silmarillion but it is unclear whether Tolkien changed his mind about it.

[Avilan the Grey]

The corrupted elf theory is in The Silmarillion but it is unclear whether Tolkien changed his mind about i't.

In this discussion that is rather irrelevant; whether they came from Elves or Men, they still breed like mammals. And besides, (though I can't find the exact quote, Tolkien himself said in a direct response to this question that yes, they breed like "all the other peoples of Middle Earth".

[Welf]

also, the last thing Gollum used the ring for in Hobbit was to steal a orc baby from his mother and eat it

[grimbold]

good points all around

i learned something new about lotr

didn't think that was a possibility :P

[Karoht]

In theory, yes. We never see any female dwarves either, yet they canonically exist.

I suddenly hope that we get to see a Female Dwarf somewhere.
Maybe as Peter Jackson's cameo?
This is not a knock at Jackson, I think he would be thrilled to do it.

[Avilan the Grey]

I suddenly hope that we get to see a Female Dwarf somewhere.
Maybe as Peter Jackson's cameo?
This is not a knock at Jackson, I think he would be thrilled to do it.

Discworld. Dwarf with a beard. And heels.

[Karoht]

Discworld. Dwarf with a beard. And heels.

If Peter Jackson decides to cameo as such in The Hobbit, I think my respect for the man will hit a new all time high.

[VanBuren]

Discworld. Dwarf with a beard. And heels.

Gender is more or less optional.

[Traab]

If Peter Jackson decides to cameo as such in The Hobbit, I think my respect for the man will hit a new all time high.

I will want his babies if he convinces stan lee to do a cameo just for the "did I really just see that?!" factor. :p Suddenly we see a suspiciously familiar old hobbit in the background smoking a pipe.

[KnightDisciple]

I'm still irritated by "dwarf women have beards!", because that's nowhere in LOTR or anything.

[Traab]

I'm still irritated by "dwarf women have beards!", because that's nowhere in LOTR or anything.

Neither is legolas sledding down staircases riding shields as he shoots several orcs on the way down. Artistic license to make things more entertaining for the masses that didnt go there hoping to see an identical reading of the books put on films. I dont mind those things too much because at least they are just little bits of frippery added to the movie to make things more interesting without blatantly contradicting canon events. Well, anymore than gimli being comedy relief period was.

[Blue Bandit]

I'm still irritated by "dwarf women have beards!", because that's nowhere in LOTR or anything.

If your referring to the joke that Aragorn made in The Two Towers when Gimli was describing dwarf women, I always interpreted it to be just that, a joke. Just like when someone jokes about how elf men look like women , some people joke about dwarf women having beards. At least, that's how I interpreted it.

[VanBuren]

I'm still irritated by "dwarf women have beards!", because that's nowhere in LOTR or anything.

The Balrog didn't have wings either.


...or did he?

[WalkingTarget]

If your referring to the joke that Aragorn made in The Two Towers when Gimli was describing dwarf women, I always interpreted it to be just that, a joke. Just like when someone jokes about how elf men look like women , some people joke about dwarf women having beards. At least, that's how I interpreted it.

Gimli's line directly before that regarding Dwarf women being so like the men in voice and appearance that they're often mistaken for them is right out of the appendices - and since all dwarf men we're given descriptions for mention long beards, it's not that far of a jump to make.

[snoopy13a]

From Appendix A of The Lord of the Rings:

[T]here are few dwarf-women, probably no more than a third of the whole people. They seldom walk abroad except at great need. They are in voice and appearance, and in garb if they must go on a journey, so like to the dwarf-men that the eyes and ears of other peoples cannot tell them apart.

From this passage, it is commonly inferred that dwarf-women have beards. Another possible inference is that dwarf-women do not have beards but don fake beards when traveling.

[dehro]

From Appendix A of The Lord of the Rings:



From this passage, it is commonly inferred that dwarf-women have beards. Another possible inference is that dwarf-women do not have beards but don fake beards when traveling.

and when stoning other dwarves of course

[Rules Lawyer #1]

My personal take on the LotR book(s) is: boring

The movie version LotR is awesome, particularly the extended version DVDs

That actually makes a lot of sense. Movie theaters like shorter movies because they charge per showing, not per minute of film, and a shorter film can have more showings per day. I seem to recall, they struggled to get Return of the King under three hours for it's theatrical release.

I think he did a fantastic job! Yes, he cut things out of the book and moved things around, but I forgive those things. Bombadil, Scouring of the Shire simply didn't fit the pacing of a movie. And I think he did wonders with Arwen's and Aragorn's relationship which Tolkien did not.

In my mind the elimination of the Scouring of the Shire was the biggest mistake in LotR because the Scouring of the Shire actually gives reason for the movie not to end with Frodo on the Volcano. By eliminating the Scouring of the Shire, they effectively destroyed the ending for The Return of the King and now it shall live in infamy: *fade to black* 'well that was a good movie' *fades back in* 'No, wait there's more' *fade to black* '…Okaaay' *fades back in* 'Oh, there's more' *fades to black* '…ummm' *fades back in* 'Is this movie going to end?' *end movie* '…' *waits* 'okaay so that's the end? Why do I feel like I just lost the last five minutes of my life?'

The Hobbit: There and Back Again book version is awesome. The Hobbit differs from LotR in that the Hobbit is a book of action where the LotR is a trilogy of plodding Doom. Also, Peter Jackson can streeeeetch a movie out (do not watch The Lovely Bones, a very slooooww pace movie over two hours long directed by Peter Jackson).

On the other hand, one of the reasons I think Peter Jackson did so well with LotR is because JRR Tolkien produced enough material to create another world entirely. Because Peter Jackson likes to do a lot of build up, having the extra material actually gives him something to do in LotR. The extra material in the Hobbit is a potential plot destroyer. Is the extra material really relevant to The Hobbit? By splitting The Hobbit into more than one part, I worry that Peter Jackson may destroy what makes The Hobbit what it is. Regardless of how awesome the filler material is (and yes, I would love to see the filler material), the Hobbit becomes a LotR style presentation: still cool, but definitely not cool in the way the book was cool. Since this is clearly his intent, it will be interesting to see how well he pulls it off. And besides, JRR Tolkien would've liked to have changed The Hobbit to include more of the material he generated while writing LotR. Regardless, I think these will be world-class movies on a par with Peter Jackson's LotR.

Don't be silly people. This is clearly the Star Wars model of film making.

First you make the concluding trilogy.

Then you make the prequel trilogy that most peoplefind awkward.

Except that The Hobbit was actually written before LotR… whereas the Star Wars prequel was concept only and the "concluding" trilogy hasn't been written and quite possibly never will be (the original Star Wars trilogy is the "middle" trilogy).

So, apparently they've been shooting the movies at a higher framerate than... all other movies that've come out ever. Apparently a lot of people don't like it, saying that it feels like a soap opera set (AKA, completely unrealistic.)

So apparently now the 48 FPS version is just going to be a limited release.

Links:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1452391.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1755388.html

Actually, critics are saying 48 FPS is uncenematic (i.e. more realistic) and that's bad because… because you can tell that sets are sets (just like you can tell that sets in soap operas are sets when watching your TV at home)… the audience shouldn't be able to see everything so clearly! Yeah! It has absolutely nothing to do with theaters not wanting to upgrade their equipment… Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain! lol

See, your problem is you assume the dwarves are just packing musical instruments instead of weapons:
Real dwarves understand how to pack sensibly with limited luggage space. You don't pack your instrument or your axe.



You pack your instrument and your axe.

+1

"Alright, let's do this! BILBOOOOOOOO BAAAAAAGGINS!"

+1

Thorin should have taken you along.

+1 He should have taken me along!

Rationally, I am aware that this is the incorrect answer. But my gut tells me as Bling. Goblins with gold teeth, sovreign rings and disco medalions.

+1, goblins don't trade with other races.
No. No, they don't, not even with Mordor. Okay, okay, maybe evil dwarves. Maybe. They do, however, trade with other goblins

Orcs are simply a degenerate breed of elves ruined by Morgoth. Elves breed like any other animal, thus Orcs do. That pod nonsense in the Two Towers film had no basis in the books.

Except that these are no "ordinary" orcs. They are Uruk-Hai. Their shields are broad, their armor thick. Moreover, they are specially "bred" to be more resistant to sunlight by Saruman and Sauron. The movie takes some creative license in showing what Saruman is doing. The book doesn't exactly describe what Saruman does to create them, yet that doesn't make the pod theory nonsense. After all, Saruman is a wizard. So how does a wizard make stronger orcs?

[MLai]

By eliminating the Scouring of the Shire, they effectively destroyed the ending for The Return of the King and now it shall live in infamy

I'm the type of person who watches the end credits of a movie even without the bait of a post-credits extra scene (Marvel movies), so I was fine with the trilogy's "multiple endings." I for one was glad the SotS was removed. It's an anti-climax.

Actually, critics are saying 48 FPS is uncenematic (i.e. more realistic) and that's bad because… because you can tell that sets are sets (just like you can tell that sets in soap operas are sets when watching your TV at home)… the audience shouldn't be able to see everything so clearly! Yeah! It has absolutely nothing to do with theaters not wanting to upgrade their equipment…

+1
I remember all the naysaying back when digital was first introduced. "Oh noes! The quality is so clear now, you can see the imperfections on the actresses' faces!"
Fact of the matter is. Just like digital was the future, 48 FPS is the future. 3D is not, and was never, the future (maybe the far future).
Also, I don't get how the heck does a faster frame rate make the sets look fake? Last I checked, backgrounds don't move around.

+1, goblins don't trade with other races.
No. No, they don't, not even with Mordor. Okay, okay, maybe evil dwarves. Maybe. They do, however, trade with other goblins

I also agree that goblins (and orcs) are totally into bling. Just look at how they fought over a shiny mithril shirt that was 6 sizes too small for them.

[VanBuren]

At the end of the day, it all comes down to the fact that it's a vast departure from the framerates of other movies, while coming closer to the framerate of what soap operas operate at. So anything at that speed gets associated with the general low-quality of soap operas, which are low-quality for completely different reasons that involve not having enough time to build great sets or set up cinematic-level lighting.