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2012-09-21, 12:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: League of Legends XXXVIII: Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut
No they didn't. They partially mitigated some of the damage it causes.
EDIT: HOW CAN ANIVIA DIE?!?!?!Last edited by TheShrike; 2012-09-21 at 12:50 PM.
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2012-09-21, 12:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: League of Legends XXXVIII: Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut
To be fair you can't really "fix" dos attacks. You can modify your system so the attacks takes a lot of more effort and thus becomes unrealistic, you can mitigate the consequences of a successful attack by designing your system with the risk in mind, and you can go after the bad guys afterwards.
Edit: Oh, and the point. Riot appears to have done the last two, and possibly all three of these things.
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2012-09-21, 01:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: League of Legends XXXVIII: Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut
Ask me about our low price vacation plans in the Elemental Plane of Puppies and PieSpoiler
Evoker avatar by kpenguin. Evoker Pony by Dirtytabs. Grey Mouser, disciple of cupcakes by me. Any and all commiepuppies by BRC
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2012-09-21, 01:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: League of Legends XXXVIII: Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut
Anyone seen this? This intrigues me.
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...48823#29448823
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2012-09-21, 01:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: League of Legends XXXVIII: Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut
"Okay" as in "Okay, I'm going to stick even more resistances on top of huge resistances I already have just because it will cause me to deal slightly more damage that I won't get to deal because my natural HP is low as hell and causes me to die to a single AP Sion combo or something equally pathetic".
Whenever I see a Rammus rush a Thornmail, I cringe. It's not core. It doesn't help you against magic damage teams. It pretty much gives you just 100 armor, you already have it for when it would be relevant unless you get it baited out of you. Physical casters laugh at it, AD carries can go for an earlier Bloodthirster or some magic resistance and nullify its passive, and then they get Last Whisper so it's not even that good late game. It's stupid.
Get an Aegis. Or Shurelya. Or Randuin. Or even Sunfire. Or hell, go for Warmogs if you are fed enough. Buy an Elixir of Fortitude. You are 3k+ health and enemy physicals hurt too much? Consider Thornmail. Right after considering Frozen Heart, maybe. More damage? You could try Atmas (though its nerfed) and add crit chance on top of your huge AD from armor and HP. Wit's End could even help. Thornmail is just so silly.
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2012-09-21, 01:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: League of Legends XXXVIII: Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut
It takes a lot of lifesteal and magic resistance to nullify thornmail's damage return - and even once you do, your lifesteal is being nullified. It's a situational item, but in some situations it is useful. Mind, in most situations something else is more useful, but if they have a very autoattack heavy team, it's sometimes nice to grab.
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2012-09-21, 01:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: League of Legends XXXVIII: Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut
Against very autoattack heavy teams I'd be more pressured to finish Frozen Heart honestly unless that can be covered by someone else. Randuin's seems more helpful against them as well. If I had to go fast Frozen Heart after gp/10 items I probably want to go back to getting some health unless their AP carry doesn't exist. And again Thornmail becomes a late item suggestion. It's situational in that it sometimes doesn't even work against the very thing it's supposed to be countering.
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2012-09-21, 03:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: League of Legends XXXVIII: Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut
I've started streaming again.
78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.
I started my first campaign outside of an abandoned mine, just as soon as a meteor storm from the moon hits.
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2012-09-21, 03:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: League of Legends XXXVIII: Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut
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2012-09-21, 03:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
Re: League of Legends XXXVIII: Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut
Oh hey, let's look at your typically 200 armor target. The caster has no source of flat pen before items, other than the 10% from masteries.
Normal damage:
100/(100 + 200*.9) = 35.71%
With Youmuu's:
100/(100 + 180*.9) = 38.16%
With Last Whisper(and not Youmuu's):
100/(100 + 200*.9*.6) = 48.07%
With both:
100/(100 + 180*.9*.6) = 50.70%
So, without any other source of Pen, Youmuu's alone is granted +2.45% damage. LW alone is granting +12.36% damage. Getting LW after Youmuu's adds +12.54% damage. Getting Youmuu's after LW adds +2.63% damage.
Now let's assume 100 and 300 armor, since those both show up too by the time most people buy LW.
Spoiler100 armor case:
Without items: 52.63%
With Youmuu's: 58.13%
With LW: 64.93%
With both: 69.83%
Increase of Youmuu's alone: 5.5%
Increase of LW alone: 12.3%
Increase of LW after Youmuu's: 11.7%
Increase of Youmuu's after LW: 4.9%
300 armor case:
Without items: 27.02%
With Youmuu's: 28.40%
With LW: 38.16%
With both: 39.80%
Increase of Youmuu's alone: 1.38%
Increase of LW alone: 11.14%
Increase of LW after Youmuu's: 11.40%
Increase of Youmuu's after LW: 1.64%
Basically, flat and % pen don't synergize only when flat pen is closer to the amount of target's armor, which with just items and the % mastery is near 100 armor. For everyone else, the flat pen may not be valuable enough against that much armor, but its value is only enhanced by LW, not diminished.
What you're really seeing is the diminishing value of armor stacking playing out in the flat pen, since the higher armor is, the less a flat adjustment is worth, relative to a smaller armor value, both positive(by increasing armor) or negative(by increasing flat pen).Avatar by Assassin89
I started my first campaign around a campfire, having pancakes. They were blueberry.
My homebrew(updated 6/17):
SpoilerIn progress:
Prolonged Spell(Fix for Persistent spell)
Weapon Training(replaces Weapon Focus chain)
Shelved:
Ascendant Feats.[New content!]
Finished:
Belts of potionade
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2012-09-21, 03:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Fayetteville, AR
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2012-09-21, 03:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: League of Legends XXXVIII: Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut
You spent way too much mental energy worrying about this guy's build and play. You're mid, you're ahead, YOU go gank. That's your job as well as his, and Kennen happens to be really good at roaming quickly. Plus, if you're ahead, you're also really good at pushing lane quickly, so that's not the concern it might otherwise be.
More broadly, your solo queue experience will be defined by your ability to doublethink. On the one hand, you want to strive for cooperation and teamwork; on the other hand, you want to ignore your teammates' mistakes and just play your best individual game, and focus on what YOU can do better each game rather than on what your TEAMMATES are doing wrong. To me, teammates playing badly are not horror stories. It feels far worse to be the one feeding and throwing the game for my team.
So yeah, report him for his abusive behavior in chat, but at the same time, you seriously had more important things to do in that game than let his bad play get under your skin in the first place.
Well, the thing is, throws are more obvious at 1400, but they're no less game-changing at 1800. And much of it really does come down to babysitting your teammates, ctrl-pinging their solo adventures and telling them to hug turret in lane and so on.
You cannot.
To respond to the larger conversation on this point, Thornmail Rammus is the "Oh, look, I'm miles ahead of everyone, let me just win the game now" choice. You don't get it to mitigate enemy damage so much as to dive towers.
At least she can't start teleporting while in egg form anymore.
My only concern is with the as-yet unrevealed ramifications of a high Honor score. Otherwise, it looks like a solid implementation.Last edited by Math_Mage; 2012-09-21 at 04:13 PM.
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2012-09-21, 04:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: League of Legends XXXVIII: Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut
I just find the concept of Bankplank hilarious. You're just sitting in a frozen lane where neither party cares to kill each other...
Only you have more gp/5s because you're gangplank and can use three
and you have more assists, because you're gangplank and can ult
and you get more gold per CS, because you're gangplank and can Q
So you just show up somewhere in midgame and stomp face because you have items.
edit- my build usually pans out to:
Boots + 2 + 1 mana -> Philo -> Avarice -> HoG -> Boots of Whatever you Feel like for your Boots -> crit cloak -> 'mog's -> Atma's
Then have an eye to build Reverie, Ghostblade, Omen, IE, and PD in whatever combo and order is necessary.
Combining Ghostblade, Reverie, and Raise Morale is hilarious.Last edited by MCerberus; 2012-09-21 at 04:13 PM.
Ask me about our low price vacation plans in the Elemental Plane of Puppies and PieSpoiler
Evoker avatar by kpenguin. Evoker Pony by Dirtytabs. Grey Mouser, disciple of cupcakes by me. Any and all commiepuppies by BRC
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2012-09-21, 04:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
Re: League of Legends XXXVIII: Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut
To add to this, anyone with Thornmail is going to be breaching 200 armor, at minimum. Without ArPen, it would take exactly 90% lifesteal to break even against the target. More armor and ArPen mess with the equation, but not enough that 1 bloodthirster is going to 'negate' it.
Also, Thornmail is really cheap, at a mere 2k. Since many games don't last long enough for junglers to finish their item builds, that shouldn't be overlooked.Avatar by Assassin89
I started my first campaign around a campfire, having pancakes. They were blueberry.
My homebrew(updated 6/17):
SpoilerIn progress:
Prolonged Spell(Fix for Persistent spell)
Weapon Training(replaces Weapon Focus chain)
Shelved:
Ascendant Feats.[New content!]
Finished:
Belts of potionade
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2012-09-21, 04:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: League of Legends XXXVIII: Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut
I've started streaming again.
78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.
I started my first campaign outside of an abandoned mine, just as soon as a meteor storm from the moon hits.
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2012-09-21, 04:34 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
Re: League of Legends XXXVIII: Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut
Avatar by Assassin89
I started my first campaign around a campfire, having pancakes. They were blueberry.
My homebrew(updated 6/17):
SpoilerIn progress:
Prolonged Spell(Fix for Persistent spell)
Weapon Training(replaces Weapon Focus chain)
Shelved:
Ascendant Feats.[New content!]
Finished:
Belts of potionade
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2012-09-21, 04:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2010
- Gender
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2012-09-21, 05:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2009
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- A nice, sparkly place.
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Re: League of Legends XXXVIII: Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut
So, anyone else in PBE want to test out if the new champ's hidden passive? Just give me a call.
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2012-09-21, 05:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: League of Legends XXXVIII: Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut
I didn't even notice cho's build till after the 20 minute mark and laning had ended and he was dying faster then me in teamfights.
I was versus a cass who usually followed me. This ended up causing my first and only death before 20 minutes as diana was way more helpful in a 2v2 then garen. I did push the lane hard but again, it was a cass and she can do one Q and one W and clean the wave. Eventually I just ignored top and ganked bottom lane which worked out once before the learned to ward.
Honestly that was possibly one of my best kennen games. That made it all the more painful when nothing I could do would change the fact that the enemy diana and Amumu were powerful factors in teamfights while garen and cho'gath...were not.
What really got under my skin was his adamant behavior that his build was the best in the world and that anyone suggesting otherwise was a total noob. Even when I tried to link to cho'gath build guides in post game chat, he would spitefully ignore them.
To sum up, at least my Normal Que hidden ELO has me to the point that I can expect a certain level of play. I realize that I will have to deal with bad people until I reach that skill level again but I just had a poor first game that turned me off.
Again I really wish riot would implement a legitimate replay system so that I could show this and we all could laugh.Last edited by LordShotGun; 2012-09-21 at 05:52 PM.
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2012-09-21, 07:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-09-21, 07:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: League of Legends XXXVIII: Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut
Hmmm....I wonder if anyone's ever tried AP Rammus for a Powerball-Tremors nuke?
"Winning with friendship means winning at life!"
-Mako Mankanshoku
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2012-09-21, 08:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: League of Legends XXXVIII: Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut
Yes. Powerball actually has a really good ratio (1.0) and Tremors isn't bad so it's borderline viable but you need to be tanky enough so it's more like APMumu kinda build where you get tanky AP items (Rylai's much worse on him than Mummy tho) and Cap if you far enough ahead.
Campaign Journal: Uncovering the Lost World - A Player's Diary in Low-Magic D&D (Latest Update: 8.3.2014)
Being Bane: A Guide to Barbarians Cracking Small Men - Ever Been Angry?! Then this is for you!
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2012-09-21, 08:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-09-21, 08:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: League of Legends XXXVIII: Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut
Resistances don't have diminishing values relative to anything but the effective health you would get by combining large amounts of resistances and HP. Each point of armor or MR is worth just as much as the next point or the previous point.
Putting it in terms of % damage seems a little bit misleading to me, and you have to consider things in terms of resource costs. That 20 ArPen is strong early game but once you've got a last whisper you'll only be getting 12 or so actual effective armor pen out of it, compared to the amount of Armor Pen you have with just Last Whisper.
Is this taking MR into account?
Two chain vests provide 90% of the armor that Thornmail provides for 70% of the price, plus they build into better items with better abilities whose effects aren't contingent on the enemy choosing to attack you.
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2012-09-21, 08:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2008
Re: League of Legends XXXVIII: Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut
I just bought Rumble, and... weird mechanic, but kinda fun. I went CDR boots, Kage's, Gunblade, Deathcap, and would have grabbed Abyssal next. I also levelled E->Q->W, for more poke and ability to slow enemies. It worked fairly well, but there's usually ways to improve. Any tips?
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2012-09-21, 08:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: League of Legends XXXVIII: Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut
Sorc shoes, definitely. He hits the heat limit soon enough anyways, CDR is kinda waste, and MPen is just really strong. Also, he's shortish range so he kinda wants to be fairly tanky; I like Abyssal, Zhonya and Rylai's on him (Rylai's slows with his ult/E/Q are stupid strong).
Campaign Journal: Uncovering the Lost World - A Player's Diary in Low-Magic D&D (Latest Update: 8.3.2014)
Being Bane: A Guide to Barbarians Cracking Small Men - Ever Been Angry?! Then this is for you!
SRD Averages - An aggregation of all the key stats of all the monster entries on SRD arranged by CR.
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2012-09-21, 08:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: League of Legends XXXVIII: Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut
Rylai's does turn Tremors into a giant slow-field. Cooldown is an annoyance, but there's something to be said for having double the area effected over Mummy Tears- having AP Rammus Tremor-ing in the middle of a group (after hopefully smacking a couple of people with Powerball) sounds like one of those 'ok, we're gonna win this teamfight now, k?' events. And of course it evaporates towers in case you're having trouble pushing.
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2012-09-21, 08:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2008
Re: League of Legends XXXVIII: Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut
For CDR it's because I found I was often using the same ability back-to-back or close enough. His E especially, with good CDR, seems like a great harass tool. I was laning against Warwick, so closing to melee was just asking to get Q'd and mauled, but plinking him with E's every few seconds seemed good and wasn't contributing that much to my Heat. If I'd been spamming all his skills sure, but simply W-ing repeatedly on a long run, or E-ing repeatedly in a skirmish, wasn't causing too much heat and benefited quite a bit from CDR.
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2012-09-21, 09:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: League of Legends XXXVIII: Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut
Campaign Journal: Uncovering the Lost World - A Player's Diary in Low-Magic D&D (Latest Update: 8.3.2014)
Being Bane: A Guide to Barbarians Cracking Small Men - Ever Been Angry?! Then this is for you!
SRD Averages - An aggregation of all the key stats of all the monster entries on SRD arranged by CR.
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2012-09-21, 09:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2008
Re: League of Legends XXXVIII: Featuring Mumble, The Giant Halibut
Mmm, I can see that. I still think some degree of CDR is good, especially to get that ult up more often since its heat-less. And even Overheating isn't that bad - if your last skill was Flamethrower, you've now got massive melee-range beatdowns for the next few seconds, and you still have summoner spells to get you out of trouble. I'm not saying Overheating can't be dangerous, but doing it intentionally helped me secure at least one kill in the game I was in.
I'd definitely want MPen too though, which is why Abyssal was on my list. ...perhaps I could get MPen from boots and that little bit of CDR from Deathfire?Last edited by sonofzeal; 2012-09-21 at 09:28 PM.