League of Legends XXXIX: Harrowing in the Playground

[Eldariel]

I know, it's kinda crazy

Well, there's one thing not apparent from the chat: Twitch was trying to switch summoners but due to client bug + slowness failed to get Smite in time so there was actually no time for me to get Smite.

Also, Sona was running AD masteries 'cause of all the confusion.

[Eurus]

I know, it's kinda crazy

But here's my number, so call-

-ahem.

Anyway. I feel like I need to pick up a new jungler, since the only one I'm really comfortable with is Amumu. But nobody else is remotely similar as far as I'm aware. Any recommendations? Good ganks, good farm, good teamfight presence and cc... maybe Maokai?

[Forrestfire]

Honestly, I would just save up and wait to see who is strong after the season 3 jungle changes. That's coming up in a few weeks, right?

[Eldariel]

But here's my number, so call-

-ahem.

Anyway. I feel like I need to pick up a new jungler, since the only one I'm really comfortable with is Amumu. But nobody else is remotely similar as far as I'm aware. Any recommendations? Good ganks, good farm, good teamfight presence and cc... maybe Maokai?

Maokai, Alistar, Cho'Gath, Nautilus. Tho people are pretending Nautilus doesn't exist right now.

[Duos]

Maokai, Alistar, Cho'Gath, Nautilus. Tho people are pretending Nautilus doesn't exist right now.

Is it because his clear time is kinda awful?

[TechnOkami]

Is it because his clear time is kinda awful?

I think it's because his clear time is gonna be worse...

[LordShotGun]

Is it because his clear time is kinda awful?

That and people remember when he was godlike before a series of nerfs knocked him down to just unremarkable.

[ex cathedra]

This is pretty much the worst time possible to learn how to jungle, but I can say with some degree of certainty that regardless of what happens Maokai will be a viable tank jungler after the remake.

[Forrestfire]

Isn't maoki hugely vulnerable to counterjungling as it is? I could see that weakness getting worse with stronger camps.

Also, I don't think I've ever seen something as hilarious/depressing in a league game as I did now. Our Caitlin ragequits because her lane lost to Rengar/Blitzcrank, then comes back 15 minutes later to beg us to surrender so she could play another game.

[dgnslyr]

Malphite's a good jungle. He clears well and ganks reasonably well pre-6 and ganks devastatingly well post-6.

I start boots + 3 potions, at wolves into blue, with a skill order of EQWQ. Focusing E makes him clear a bit better, but focusing Q makes his ganks much stronger, so find the extra gank power more valuable than the clear speed, if the lanes are gankable. Otherwise, it's fine to alternate between Q and E, so Malph can clear jungle camps better, when lanes aren't gankable for whatever reason. If you have mana to burn from blue buff, hit W at every camp, to increase his damage. Otherwise, just stick with E to clear camps, because using all his abilities to clear camps gets very costly very fast when you don't have blue buff.

Itemwise, Philos-HoG are core on jungle Malph, like they are on almost every tank-jungler. From there, building MPen is a good way to increase his damage, on a good game, so Sorc Shoes, Haunting Guise, and even Abyssal are strong items for increasing his damage. Otherwise, Frozen Heart and Shurelia's are good tank items.

[Godskook]

Isn't maoki hugely vulnerable to counterjungling as it is? I could see that weakness getting worse with stronger camps.

While disrupting his wraith start does slow him down, Maokai's lvl 4 clear speed was insane enough that you're only putting him back down to par.

After that, sure he's vulnerable to counterjungling, but not really any more than most other gank-oriented junglers.

S3 jungle changes might make clear speeds themselves an actual weakness, but it isn't really, not right now.

[Maeglin_Dubh]

What do people do with Twitch these days, besides troll?

I'd like to try him out, but he's not Corki, Ezreal, or Graves, so people don't react well to him.

[LordShotGun]

What do people do with Twitch these days, besides troll?

I'd like to try him out, but he's not Corki, Ezreal, or Graves, so people don't react well to him.

Troll some more? Twitch has low hp, a poor escape, no CC , his passive and ultimate are mediocre and everyone does his job better.

If you want a different AD carry, try out Draven. Draven is not half bad once you figure out his axes and how to use his displacer skill correctly.

[9mm]

Troll some more? Twitch has low hp, a poor escape, no CC , his passive and ultimate are mediocre and everyone does his job better.

lolwut?

Twitch is a monster.

Isn't maoki hugely vulnerable to counterjungling as it is?

No. Infact for the most part, counter jungling Moakai is a waste of time unless your either A) getting a buff or B) killing Moakai. Also attempting to disrupt his pre-spawn saperlings accomplishes nothing to his first clear route unless you take the camp.

Tree can survive on just GP10 gold, and his ganks mean he can just snowball away lost jungle gold.

[Tychris1]

Troll some more? Twitch has low hp, a poor escape, no CC , his passive and ultimate are mediocre and everyone does his job better.

Heh.....

Hehehe....

Hahahahahehehehahoohohohohahahehhhhoahha! Are... Are you serious? I'm just trying to grasp the full meaning of what you just said. "Mediocre ultimate" The thing makes his attacks missiles (And gives a slight damage boost) once a teamfight starts up he SHREDS enemy teams. Most ADC have to focus down one person at a time, Twitch? He just sprays and prays. And it gets **** done. His Q is not mediocre either, 5 or so seconds of invisibility is not to be scoffed at especially when it gives you a speed boost. I'd say it's a pretty good escape. Even with stealth detection the speed boost is a free PD he can pop, and if he decides to turn around and shoot his attack speed buff is not to be scoffed at. His W might not be great CC, but you don't use it for CC, you use it for passive stacks. Your combo is Stealth+Autoattack/W+Expunge. The more auto attacks you can get off the better. His passive also means early skirmishes can go in his favor easily. It might not look like much st first glance, but coupled with ignite in an extended fight and suddenly you have more DoT then your natural regen or support can probably handle (And if you're with a kill lane support like Blitz then your just wrecked. But then Twitch just hides behind Minions and lets you gran his support, stealths in, comboes, and focuses down the carry in a DoT/Nuking glory.

Twitch isn't a troll.

He's a rat with a hat.

[Godskook]

Also attempting to disrupt his pre-spawn saperlings accomplishes nothing to his first clear route unless you take the camp.

Stonewall has his leash-less wraith start on youtube, at 3:25 clear.

I did his leash-less wolf start and got 3:40(I can do the wraith start in 3:25).

Yeah, 15s is 'nothing'.

And no, Leashing won't improve things for the wolf start, cause the wraith start actually has more to gain from a competent leash.

[Joran]

More drama from CLG.NA. Voyboy is benched, HotshotGG goes back top, Chauster gets to learn another role as Jungler, and LocoDoco (an import from Korea although he was an original member of TSM) goes to support.

WTF is up with this team.

[ex cathedra]

More drama from CLG.NA. Voyboy is benched, HotshotGG goes back top, Chauster gets to learn another role as Jungler, and LocoDoco (an import from Korea although he was an original member of TSM) goes to support.

WTF is up with this team.

lol

why do people like that team?

[Math_Mage]

More drama from CLG.NA. Voyboy is benched, HotshotGG goes back top, Chauster gets to learn another role as Jungler, and LocoDoco (an import from Korea although he was an original member of TSM) goes to support.

WTF is up with this team.

I wondered what Loco was doing.

BTW random thought: I am like 99% certain that everyone who used to watch Loco stream now watches OddOne/Jacky. The fit is just too good.

I'm glad Hotshot isn't jungling anymore. He plainly isn't calling plays for the team, and the playmaker needs a jungle or mid role most of the time, at least from my team experience. Also what with Stanley showing the world that Nidalee is still a thing, Hotshot has a chance to remind everyone who invented that particular specialty.

[toasty]

lol

why do people like that team?

They're a really old team. Honestly, I don't like them as a team because they aren't a very good team (and may quickly become the weakest "best team" in NA, we'll see) but I like some of the individuals on it.

[McDouggal]

People like them (and I do too) because they are constantly top 5 in the ranked teams ELO for NA, and HotshotGG is one of the most recognizable LoL players. Even when they lose, it always looks like a good match that could've gone either way.

[Zen Master]

Isn't maoki hugely vulnerable to counterjungling as it is? I could see that weakness getting worse with stronger camps.

Also, I don't think I've ever seen something as hilarious/depressing in a league game as I did now. Our Caitlin ragequits because her lane lost to Rengar/Blitzcrank, then comes back 15 minutes later to beg us to surrender so she could play another game.

Oh so that's why. Yes of course. I've wondered - often - why anyone would rejoin a game 8-10 levels later, and I always attributed it to lenghty disconnects or other trouble.

But of course .... they just can't create new games while the old is running.

Psh - how come I never thought of that myself?! Must be getting old.

[Cogwheel]

So a friend of mine looked at the current rotation and wants to try jungle Janna, jungle Katarina (he doesn't expect either to be as good as Karthus), ADC Skarner, tank Ziggs (well, tanky AP with an emphasis on his CC, serving as a tank) and midlane Mundo.

Does anyone have any advice for this madman? I mean, he's fairly good, but I'm at a loss for how to help with this.

[Nadevoc]

So a friend of mine looked at the current rotation and wants to try jungle Janna, jungle Katarina (he doesn't expect either to be as good as Karthus), ADC Skarner, tank Ziggs (well, tanky AP with an emphasis on his CC, serving as a tank) and midlane Mundo.

Does anyone have any advice for this madman? I mean, he's fairly good, but I'm at a loss for how to help with this.

Jungle Janna is apparently workable; I believe at some of the people around here have done it, so hopefully they can tell you how.

Jungle Kat just seems like a bad idea, though I'm pretty unfamiliar with post-rework Kat. Her new W might make it possible.

Skarner really has no good tools to make him ADC. He can't even AA while using his ult. On-hit Skarner perhaps, since on-hit means AS which means CDR with his passive.

Tanky mages can work, but more on mages with heavy utility, which Ziggs doesn't have. In theory he could just keep poking and eventually whittle down his foe, but they'll either get a gank or go back before he gets a kill.

Mid Mundo is the best idea here by far, I think. Cleaver is very good in lane and many people struggle when they're suddenly thrown in such an off-meta matchup because they don't know how to do it. Merc Treads, Spirit Visage, Wit's End or Hexdrinker/Maw. I'd probably rush the SV. Cleaver harass as much as possible. Keep health high enough to survive the burst attempts. Then Masochism and hit them in the face. Unfortunately lane Mundo kind of relies on chasing the enemy down using Cleaver slow for kills, but I can see him becoming a decent lane bully and if he gets far enough ahead just charging at the enemy any time they tried to approach creeps to scare them away and keep them starved.

[Laudandus]

Jungle Janna is apparently workable; I believe at some of the people around here have done it, so hopefully they can tell you how.

Jungle Kat just seems like a bad idea, though I'm pretty unfamiliar with post-rework Kat. Her new W might make it possible.

Skarner really has no good tools to make him ADC. He can't even AA while using his ult. On-hit Skarner perhaps, since on-hit means AS which means CDR with his passive.

Tanky mages can work, but more on mages with heavy utility, which Ziggs doesn't have. In theory he could just keep poking and eventually whittle down his foe, but they'll either get a gank or go back before he gets a kill.

Mid Mundo is the best idea here by far, I think. Cleaver is very good in lane and many people struggle when they're suddenly thrown in such an off-meta matchup because they don't know how to do it. Merc Treads, Spirit Visage, Wit's End or Hexdrinker/Maw. I'd probably rush the SV. Cleaver harass as much as possible. Keep health high enough to survive the burst attempts. Then Masochism and hit them in the face. Unfortunately lane Mundo kind of relies on chasing the enemy down using Cleaver slow for kills, but I can see him becoming a decent lane bully and if he gets far enough ahead just charging at the enemy any time they tried to approach creeps to scare them away and keep them starved.

My friends and I were smurfing once, and one of us went Cleaver Mundo. His build was Sorc shoes -> haunting guise -> he built another sorc shoes whenever anyone on the enemy team got more MR than he had Mpen. True damage cleavers are hilariously powerful.

[Cogwheel]

Snip

Thanks! I'll pass that on, then.

For a little perspective here, his other roles of choice are top lane AS/AD Taric, jungle LeBlanc (when against bots), tank Fiddlesticks, off-tank Teemo and his perennial favourite when he decides to get serious: Jungle Karthus.

This isn't new for him, is what I'm getting at.

[TalonDemonKing]

Who here plays the new Twisted Treeline on the PBE? Lay down some Vilemaw talk for me; I want to compare it to personal experiences.

[PersonMan]

Thanks! I'll pass that on, then.

For a little perspective here, his other roles of choice are top lane AS/AD Taric, jungle LeBlanc (when against bots), tank Fiddlesticks, off-tank Teemo and his perennial favourite when he decides to get serious: Jungle Karthus.

This isn't new for him, is what I'm getting at.

I don't know about A SAD* Taric, but jungle LB (ok, ganker LB is more accurate) I can imagine working, if you solve early clear/sustain issues. Tanklesticks I've done before, generally from support bot lane to tank-who-often-gets-focused-anyways. If you mean on-hit (Malady, Wit's End, FM, etc.) Teemo (who ends up pretty tanky, yeah), it's not an unusual build. Jungle Karthus I've heard of working before, but never tried. My own Karthus experiences are limited to support Karthus, mainly.

Support LB, a champ/role I personally love playing, works off of a similar principle as that which your friend seems to use: If it works, why not? Against most bot lanes, the highly mobile burst LB brings is pretty hard to work against. LB doesn't need items to have strong damage early on, and if all goes well, by the time a no-item LB would be really falling off you have the assists you need to be Pen'ing their M and do good damage anyways.

Or at least silence/slow/snare and spam /l through the entire duration of a fight before double jumping away.

*Yes, intentional.

[Maeglin_Dubh]

So Twitch can still do a solid bot ADC routine? Anything special about him, like an unusual preference for Black Cleaver or a deep and abiding need to rush Bloodthirster over IE? Maybe even a good bit of success going Dblade-Dblade-Wriggles-PD for soft counterjungling?

[Eldariel]

So a friend of mine looked at the current rotation and wants to try jungle Janna, jungle Katarina (he doesn't expect either to be as good as Karthus), ADC Skarner, tank Ziggs (well, tanky AP with an emphasis on his CC, serving as a tank) and midlane Mundo.

Does anyone have any advice for this madman? I mean, he's fairly good, but I'm at a loss for how to help with this.

Jungle Janna is basically either AP base maxing Gale or AD base maxing shield. 1 in all by 4 anyways. AD Janna runs ASpd runes; CDR Blues are also okay on her. AP runs a normal AP page, though ASpd reds are viable. AP builds normal DFG/Cap routine (tho not after next patch; go Chalice/Cap), AD builds Wriggle's/Bilgewater Cutlass -> Trinity. Can get Gunblade too. Pretty good overall. Insaneish ganks with redbuff.

Jungle Kat's easy, get Revolver, max the W first, jump through the jungle, easy peasy. Pretty darn strong. MPen/AP or AD or runes work.

ADC Skarner is just Trinity/IE/etc. Fairly obvious. ASpd runes.

He shouldn't need help with Tank Ziggs, that basically builds itself. FHRanduinAbyssal, Lichbane or Trinity and so on.

Mid Mundo...yeah, just max cleavers, toss 'em at peoples' faces. MPen build works as does standardish tanky build. You can also go Udyr and Burning Agony push wave.