Naruto V: Eye See Your Sharingan and Raise You a Rinnegan

[Traab]

Honestly, I mostly just do it so I can find new ways to misspell his name...

Im partial to Shamalamadingdong.

[Ramza00]

I can see Sasuke coming in and hugging Madara because that's his zombie-grandpa, and he might not get to say hi again. He's getting that insane. Or he'll break up the epic battle action with some random side-plot that takes two years. Could go either way.

As for the side-characters thing, yeah, this is a great moment to give a lot of the cast a showcase, because...a lot of them are about to DIE. It's a sendoff. They're mid-level characters up against a lich and a near-epic sorcerer standing on top of something like the Terrasque. Bad things are coming. >.<

Tobi is at least 17th level in D&D since he uses Astral Projection (Izanagi) as well as Etheralness (Tobi's version of Kamui) and Plane Shift (Tobi's version of Kamui) at will. This is not taking in consideration his wood powers and the rhinnegan.

[Ramza00]

That second meeting is a bit trickier though. How do you inspire him to keep on improving without taking a dive? Maybe let him land a very minor scratch before you beat him half to death? Just enough to let him see that the gap is closing, even if only slightly?

That would defeat the entire purpose of the second meeting. Sasuke came after Itachi during that encounter ready to kill him even though Sasuke was nowhere near the level to challenge Itachi. Itachi wasn't just trying to get Sasuke to have his revenge on Itachi he was also trying to get Sasuke strong enough that he wouldn't need a big brother protecting him from Danzo, Orichimaru, Tobi, etc.

The only way to do this was to teach Sasuke how far apart they still were from each other. He did his mind rape to teach Sasuke respect. Sasuke was a young rash fool who though he could take down Itachi with Chidori, the creator of Chidori (and a far stronger ninja at the time) Kakashi was not that stupid when he pulled a similar move on Orichimaru. Kakashi was literally quaking in his boots for there is a vast difference between a Jonin and someone on Itachi's / Orcihimaru's level, let alone a genin vs Itachi.

Remember Itachi told Sasuke not just to hate him and become strong, but he also told Sasuke to be a survivor, to live in an unsightly way (like a true ninja without honor), in his flashback when fighting the grass ninja/orochimaru in the forest of death you even see a bug crawling while under the sun making the comparison that Sasuke and Itachi are as far apart as a God (the Sun) is compared to a bug.

"If you want to kill me, despise me, hate me, and live in an unsightly way... Run, and cling to life, and then some day, when you have the same eyes as I do, come before me."

I think he'd do better if he stopped trying to make the bad guys sympathetic/tragic, because he just cannot do that even remotely well. His best bad guys weren't, or were until he went crazy with them. (Zabuza wasn't particularly sympathetic in backstory, but his relationship with Haku worked. Raiga, though, later... Not so much.)

Raiga Kurosuki is filler and was not created by Kishi

[LaZodiac]

Newrato!

Spoilers:

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Good bloody hell the Ten Tails looks eldritch and wrong.

Oh hey the medics are actually on the scene of the battle like they should be. It's almost as if the medics should be near the fighting for a reason #Kubo

The ten tailed standing up....it reminds me of an EVA unit. That's goodbad.

Oh **** ShikamaruDad! Noooo...

Meanwhile, no one gloats like Gaston Amon Madara.

[ThiagoMartell]

Newrato!

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Good bloody hell the Ten Tails looks eldritch and wrong.

Oh hey the medics are actually on the scene of the battle like they should be. It's almost as if the medics should be near the fighting for a reason #Kubo

The ten tailed standing up....it reminds me of an EVA unit. That's goodbad.

Oh **** ShikamaruDad! Noooo...

Meanwhile, no one gloats like Gaston Amon Madara.

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I refuse to believe that Shikaku is dead. He just, I mean, he isn't, okay. He, he grabbed the bijudama with a shadow or something, it was all part of his plan. He'll come back soon, you guys just wait for it.
What, me, crying? No, it's just that there is something in my eye.
Poor Shikaku.

[Socratov]

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*GASP* What? competent villains! How absurd!

Though I'm half expecting Naruto to pull a broken *thing* out of his ass while we sit here and talk about it... (that, or Sasuke will be saving the day by using his h4xx0r 1337 p0w3r5)

[Morph Bark]

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The Ten-Tails goes weeeiiirrrdness and I am liking it! Less standard-looking. Also, competency from both sides tactically? In a Shonen? I must be dreaming!

...NO SHIKAKU NOOOOOO!

Scratch that, this is a nightmare.

[Elhann]

Well, last time

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Shikamaru lost a father figure, the murderer got blown into little bits. Now his ACTUAL dad is gone?
Who else wants Shikamaru going all vengeful badass on the Uchiha?

[Traab]

That would defeat the entire purpose of the second meeting. Sasuke came after Itachi during that encounter ready to kill him even though Sasuke was nowhere near the level to challenge Itachi. Itachi wasn't just trying to get Sasuke to have his revenge on Itachi he was also trying to get Sasuke strong enough that he wouldn't need a big brother protecting him from Danzo, Orichimaru, Tobi, etc.

The only way to do this was to teach Sasuke how far apart they still were from each other. He did his mind rape to teach Sasuke respect. Sasuke was a young rash fool who though he could take down Itachi with Chidori, the creator of Chidori (and a far stronger ninja at the time) Kakashi was not that stupid when he pulled a similar move on Orichimaru. Kakashi was literally quaking in his boots for there is a vast difference between a Jonin and someone on Itachi's / Orcihimaru's level, let alone a genin vs Itachi.

Remember Itachi told Sasuke not just to hate him and become strong, but he also told Sasuke to be a survivor, to live in an unsightly way (like a true ninja without honor), in his flashback when fighting the grass ninja/orochimaru in the forest of death you even see a bug crawling while under the sun making the comparison that Sasuke and Itachi are as far apart as a God (the Sun) is compared to a bug.

"If you want to kill me, despise me, hate me, and live in an unsightly way... Run, and cling to life, and then some day, when you have the same eyes as I do, come before me."



Raiga Kurosuki is filler and was not created by Kishi

The thing is, itachi pretty well beat the gap between them into sasuke without the mind rape. He broke both his arms, several ribs and did it without even giving a damn. He could have been fighting in his sleep and the battle would have ended the same way. Mind rape was overkill. The goal is to make sasuke think he can get strong enough, not to grind his nose into how hopeless it is until he breaks and doesnt even try anymore.

Of course, sasuke didnt exactly give him any openings to do something different. He fired up the loudest assassination technique in the world, screamed his hate at itachi, and ran for him head first. It was so stupid even naruto would have slapped him for it. He showed better tactics fighting orochimaru in the forest of death. But once again, I blame all that on itachi being an idiot and mind raping a 7 year old to the point where sasuke has a pavlovian response to the very mention of itachis name and is reduced to mindless berserker at the sight of him. It was just handled so stupidly all around.

[Ramza00]

The thing is, itachi pretty well beat the gap between them into sasuke without the mind rape. He broke both his arms, several ribs and did it without even giving a damn. He could have been fighting in his sleep and the battle would have ended the same way. Mind rape was overkill. The goal is to make sasuke think he can get strong enough, not to grind his nose into how hopeless it is until he breaks and doesnt even try anymore.

Of course, sasuke didnt exactly give him any openings to do something different. He fired up the loudest assassination technique in the world, screamed his hate at itachi, and ran for him head first. It was so stupid even naruto would have slapped him for it. He showed better tactics fighting orochimaru in the forest of death. But once again, I blame all that on itachi being an idiot and mind raping a 7 year old to the point where sasuke has a pavlovian response to the very mention of itachis name and is reduced to mindless berserker at the sight of him. It was just handled so stupidly all around.

I disagree

Yes Itachi beat him easily, but the beating and the mindrape were for different reasons. Itachi soundly defeated Sasuke when Sasuke was trying to do Chidori, but that wasn't enough. As you pointed out Sasuke could have believed with better tactics and better circumstances he might have defeated Itachi while keeping his power level roughly the same.

Itachi couldn't stand that for he needed to show Sasuke he needed to get stronger not just luckly. To use a phrase from the Lands of Waves arc. Kakashi to Naruto: "There are Shinobi younger than you, yet stronger than me." Itachi was trying to mindrape Sasuke to get strong enough that Sasuke didn't need a protector. Remember to Itachi, Sasuke is always his little brother and due Itachi's actions Sasuke is an orphan in a world that hates him and would desire his bloodline limit. Itachi in his own way did what he thought was best.

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Of course it was a stupid plan and was messed up on so many levels, but Itachi did what he thought was best.

[Traab]

I disagree

Yes Itachi beat him easily, but the beating and the mindrape were for different reasons. Itachi soundly defeated Sasuke when Sasuke was trying to do Chidori, but that wasn't enough. As you pointed out Sasuke could have believed with better tactics and better circumstances he might have defeated Itachi while keeping his power level roughly the same.

Itachi couldn't stand that for he needed to show Sasuke he needed to get stronger not just luckly. To use a phrase from the Lands of Waves arc. Kakashi to Naruto: "There are Shinobi younger than you, yet stronger than me." Itachi was trying to mindrape Sasuke to get strong enough that Sasuke didn't need a protector. Remember to Itachi, Sasuke is always his little brother and due Itachi's actions Sasuke is an orphan in a world that hates him and would desire his bloodline limit. Itachi in his own way did what he thought was best.

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Of course it was a stupid plan and was messed up on so many levels, but Itachi did what he thought was best.

And what he thought was best was to psychologically destroy sasuke and turn him into a raging lunatic? He should have seen his plan backfired the instant sasuke screamed out his name. I honestly dont see how making a child watch the brutal murder of his entire extended family over and over and over again for 3 straight days could possibly leave him anything other than mindlessly obsessed with revenge, which is a really bad thing to be, or just a mindless drooling husk as his brain shatters under the sheer weight of horror and pain. So what does itachi do when 5 years (or whatever) later they see each other again? HE DOUBLES DOWN ON THE TORTURE! "Well, it didnt have the outcome it was supposed to last time, lets try doing the exact same thing and seeing if it does something different. No, that isnt insanity at all, shut up."

Here is an alternate method for better results. Heck, it even includes the mind rapeage that itachi loves so much. After giving him three days of horror, leave him with this message. "If you ever want to kill me grow stronger. Grow stronger or I will come back and destroy everything else in this village just to make you suffer more." Basically, try to instill in him the desperate need to grow strong enough to protect the village and be able to stop itachi when he returns to finish the job on the rest of konoha. Then at the second meeting, use tsukiyoma to show him exactly what he will do to konoha if sasuke doesnt grow stronger. Show him everyone he knows being slaughtered, every building being destroyed, and let him know that this is what will happen because he isnt strong enough yet. You will still have an insanely obsessive sasuke, but at least this one has a chance of connecting with the village and wanting to protect it. Makes it far less likely he would betray everything for power. Still possible it could backfire, but a possibility of backfiring is better than a damn certainty.

[Kato]

On the new chapter...

Juubi looks... weird. I guess the EVA comparison isn't half bad but I'd not say eldritch.

Otherwise... not that much actually happened except for the Juubi being Haxx and... stuff. I' mot sure... I'm not that reluctant to believe this is the end of it but I'd say we would have gotten more of a goodbye if it was.

But I'll have to agree with Morph's first paragraph.

[Giegue]

^ Jubi looks weird because it did an off-screen fusion with bulbasaur and a piece of modern art. Nothing else adequately explains why the heck it looks like that.

Also...

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FINALLY some named characters are going to die in this war! Sadly none of them are really super-important, so it's not that much of a loss. Oh well, at least there is going to be some named casualties finally, even if they are VERY minor side characters...

[Socratov]

Well, last time

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Shikamaru lost a father figure, the murderer got blown into little bits. Now his ACTUAL dad is gone?
Who else wants Shikamaru going all vengeful badass on the Uchiha?

ME! MEMEMEMEMEME! OH! PICK ME!

no, seriously, that kid needs a CMOA stat!

so here's my prediction:

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Shikamaru by virtue of pure distilled intelligence figures out the weakspots for madara, obito and the bijuu and uses naruto as his messenger of vengeance (brain leading the brawn, just like last time they were together).

[Traab]

ME! MEMEMEMEMEME! OH! PICK ME!

no, seriously, that kid needs a CMOA stat!

so here's my prediction:

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Shikamaru by virtue of pure distilled intelligence figures out the weakspots for madara, obito and the bijuu and uses naruto as his messenger of vengeance (brain leading the brawn, just like last time they were together).

Im thinking he steals chojis ultra pills, pops all three, and does that shadow sewing technique only about 100x bigger, chopping jyuubi madera and obito to bits, before exploding from the strain. This buys naruto enough time to do something awesome, or for sasuke to show up and save the day with his latest new eye power.

[Morph Bark]

Im thinking he steals chojis ultra pills, pops all three, and does that shadow sewing technique only about 100x bigger, chopping jyuubi madera and obito to bits, before exploding from the strain. This buys naruto enough time to do something awesome, or for sasuke to show up and save the day with his latest new eye power.

If only. The pills are so strong for the Akimichi because they work by burning fat rapidly and turning it into energy. Shikamaru being pretty scrawny, it'd work much, much less effectively for him.

...if the war ends the ninja world as we know it, at least the Akimichi and Nara can make a fortune producing diet pills.

[Dusk Eclipse]

If only. The pills are so strong for the Akimichi because they work by burning fat rapidly and turning it into energy. Shikamaru being pretty scrawny, it'd work much, much less effectively for him.

...if the war ends the ninja world as we know it, at least the Akimichi and Nara can make a fortune producing diet pills.

I'm pretty sure the pills could kill someone as skinny as Shikamaru

[DiscipleofBob]

I'm pretty sure the pills could kill someone as skinny as Shikamaru

By the time the pills were done with him, there'd be nothing left but a shadow...

Or perhaps with Shikamaru's specialty that's the idea...

[LaZodiac]

^ Jubi looks weird because it did an off-screen fusion with bulbasaur and a piece of modern art. Nothing else adequately explains why the heck it looks like that.

Also...

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FINALLY some named characters are going to die in this war! Sadly none of them are really super-important, so it's not that much of a loss. Oh well, at least there is going to be some named casualties finally, even if they are VERY minor side characters...

Well, I remind you that Lady Tsunade's dead. Like, we haven't confirmed it, but she's absolutely dead.

ME! MEMEMEMEMEME! OH! PICK ME!

no, seriously, that kid needs a CMOA stat!

so here's my prediction:

Spoiler

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Shikamaru by virtue of pure distilled intelligence figures out the weakspots for madara, obito and the bijuu and uses naruto as his messenger of vengeance (brain leading the brawn, just like last time they were together).

Don't forget, Shikaku left a final bit of information for the shinobi alliance. Shikamaru will use this to the utmost of his ability!

[Madara]

Good chapter, I did like the weird Jubi thing, but it seems like they're beating around the bush.

[Traab]

I'm pretty sure the pills could kill someone as skinny as Shikamaru

They would kill someone as fat as an akamichi. However, its an 8 gates kind of effect, your entire body gets converted to chakra pretty much, so for that brief period of time, you can do just about anything. Like say, fillet the juubi with shadows. If anyone could make incredible use of 5 seconds of supreme power before dying, it would be shika.

[Morph Bark]

They would kill someone as fat as an akamichi. However, its an 8 gates kind of effect, your entire body gets converted to chakra pretty much, so for that brief period of time, you can do just about anything. Like say, fillet the juubi with shadows. If anyone could make incredible use of 5 seconds of supreme power before dying, it would be shika.

Prettymuch, which is why Lee or Guy could probably not benefit from them so much. Besides, the Gates have extra effects that make them even more effective, but they're also more destructive, unless the user is experienced in their use and their body is trained for it.

[Ramza00]

Here is an alternate method for better results. Heck, it even includes the mind rapeage that itachi loves so much. After giving him three days of horror, leave him with this message. "If you ever want to kill me grow stronger. Grow stronger or I will come back and destroy everything else in this village just to make you suffer more." Basically, try to instill in him the desperate need to grow strong enough to protect the village and be able to stop itachi when he returns to finish the job on the rest of konoha. Then at the second meeting, use tsukiyoma to show him exactly what he will do to konoha if sasuke doesnt grow stronger. Show him everyone he knows being slaughtered, every building being destroyed, and let him know that this is what will happen because he isnt strong enough yet. You will still have an insanely obsessive sasuke, but at least this one has a chance of connecting with the village and wanting to protect it. Makes it far less likely he would betray everything for power. Still possible it could backfire, but a possibility of backfiring is better than a damn certainty.

Your plan wouldn't work for Itachi has been away from the village for 5 years, thus Itachi doesn't know what bonds that Sasuke has formed. He can't mind rape him showing he will kill Sasuke's mentor for he doesn't know who Sasuke's mentor is. He doesn't know that Sasuke and Naruto has formed a bond so he can't show that he will torture Naruto...etc.

The only bonds that Itachi knows that Sasuke has is the bonds of his dead clan which Itachi himself murdered.

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A generic I will destroy Konoha would not work on a person like Sasuke. Sasuke has never cared about Konoha he has never formed a bond with the village like Itachi did.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

"Aim for the mind...it's basic tactics."

Even Madara, who defeated the five kages and now has Obito and the Juubi in his corner, decided to aim for the intelligence of the opposing army first. It's interesting to see him, despite his demigod-like power, take the smart move instead of just unleashing his wrath at the nearest target.

A different villain would say, "all your tactics are meaningless before me!" and just mess around but not Madara. Respect.

[Traab]

Your plan wouldn't work for Itachi has been away from the village for 5 years, thus Itachi doesn't know what bonds that Sasuke has formed. He can't mind rape him showing he will kill Sasuke's mentor for he doesn't know who Sasuke's mentor is. He doesn't know that Sasuke and Naruto has formed a bond so he can't show that he will torture Naruto...etc.

The only bonds that Itachi knows that Sasuke has is the bonds of his dead clan which Itachi himself murdered.

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A generic I will destroy Konoha would not work on a person like Sasuke. Sasuke has never cared about Konoha he has never formed a bond with the village like Itachi did.

He doesnt have to pick specific people, just general slaughter of everyone there and the destruction of the village itself. It would be more effective if he had specific info sure, so keep in mind he is a secret agent working with jiraya. It would be easy to request a few updates from time to time. "How is sasuke doing? Does he have any friends? Has someone adopted him?" Whatever. Itachi leaves his messages for jiraya, and jiraya does the same. After all, he did all this to protect sasuke, obviously he would be kinda curious how he is doing, and if he is getting close to ready to kill him.

*EDIT* Some better phrasing of the first mind rape could drive him to form attachments. Make him seek them out. Certainly he would be more likely than after itachis hate speech.

[Aotrs Commander]

*EDIT* Some better phrasing of the first mind rape could drive him to form attachments. Make him seek them out. Certainly he would be more likely than after itachis hate speech.

A better solution would probably have been not to mind-rape a child at all. Seriously, was the trauma inflicted already not enough? Itachi was just, as a famous lagomorph scholar occasionally observes, something of a maroon and an ignoranimus...

[DiscipleofBob]

As much as I love good-Itachi during this whole war arc, I will admit his suddenly being good all along was a total retcon, and not a very well-done one at that.

Murdered his entire clan, not just the masterminds behind the conspiracy but all the women and children and spared his brother only to literally torture him with a Genjutsu of him reliving the most horrible moment of his life over and over.

There is no part of this plan that's a good idea.

Granted, when he came back during the war arc and broke the control over his body to go fight Kabuto, he was one of my favorite characters, but his heel-face-turn was still BS.

[Dusk Eclipse]

since I am one of the few people who actually liked Sasuke before all this SNAFU I would have preferred Itachi being a bad guy, that way there could still be a way for Sasuke to redeem himself and return to Konoha.

[Traab]

A better solution would probably have been not to mind-rape a child at all. Seriously, was the trauma inflicted already not enough? Itachi was just, as a famous lagomorph scholar occasionally observes, something of a maroon and an ignoranimus...

In a way I can see that being necessary. He had a very limited time to work with, and he only had one shot to drive home whatever directive he was after into sasukes mind. He had to make sure sasuke blamed him and only him for the slaughter, make sure he would be ready as soon as possible to kill him and restore his clans honor, and possibly even get him ready to handle tobito. He messed up in his methods, but I can see why he had to use tsukiyoma. he didnt neccessarily have to make sasuke watch the slaughter of his family for several days, but using the technique would have been needed no matter what, all that would have changed is exactly what was shown to sasuke in that time period.

All that being said, yes, its a retcon. Its one that could have worked if it had been setup a bit differently, it could have been one hell of a twist if it all fit, but it didnt.

[Aotrs Commander]

since I am one of the few people who actually liked Sasuke before all this SNAFU I would have preferred Itachi being a bad guy, that way there could still be a way for Sasuke to redeem himself and return to Konoha.

Eh, not-pants-on-head-insane Sasuke had his moments, pretty much up until the end of the Chunin Exam Arc (funnily enough, I suspect being tortured again shortly thereafter, in concert with the curse seal was enough to snap his fragile mind like a brittle twig). So, I'd agree with you, nominally (provided Sasuke hadn't run off to Roachymoron... I'm sorry, to Orochimaru - because actually, given how laughable all the other bad guys are, I suddenly feel a lot more well disposed to ol' snakey...) It certainly would have been less... ridiculous.

I've seen a few fanfics where Sasuke doesn't go bonkers and they manage to make him actually kinda likable; so he could have been pretty okay, a sort of Neji-like character. But there you go.