Tippyverse DnD VS Tippyverse Potterverse

[Raineh Daze]

The lord voldermort kills everyone because he Horicruxed the voyager plate, and is unkillable. For those who get the reference.

Oh, no, he's still very much killable, it's just that actually making him, you know, deader than dead would be surprisingly annoying.

[Arcanist]

Other than that, the Wizards in HP are hidden from the mundanes. In TV, the Wizards rule the world openly.

Clarification: In the TV there is only one Wizard (or there were multiple Wizards, but they largely abandoned the idea of existing peacefully in the same world and left) who silently rules the world hidden off in a Demiplane that cannot be accessed. If there are other Wizards they are completely incapable of casting any spell that would find the Wizard-In-The-Sky or harm him/her. Awakened Factotum Shadesteel Golems patrol the streets for rogue Wizards who happen to threaten the Wizard-In-The-Sky's rule or power, citizens are indoctrinated into believing that they live in a magically suppressive society that favors technology (Artificers) and inherently magical entities (Warlocks) to perform their task.

Think 1984 meets D&D with a darker utopian style to it and you've effectively got the Tippyverse from how Tippy describes it to everyone when they ask (Actually, I expect him to arrive fairly shortly to correct me). In the Tippyverse, there is no hunger, no disease; It is a post scarcity society where people are expected to ignorantly serve a master that they do not know exist and is monitoring their every actions... My god this setting sounds pretty cool

A conflict between D&D [TV] and HP would be more subtle since the Wizard-In-The-Sky would most likely prefer to conquer his new world with more subterfuge than an all-out attack, lest he run the risk of unifying his enemies against him.

[Fouredged Sword]

Characters and important figures from the PV would find themselves wished naked into a self resetting trap of mindrape, turned into loyal servants with all their old memories and skills, and wished back to exactly where they came from.

Double points if the TV wizards move the PV characters back in time enough to get them to simply blink in and out of existence for a instant.

[Togo]

Characters from the Tippyverse would find themselves subject to a prophecy that foretells their eventual defeat at the hand of a small orphan, despite any precautions they may take or any obvious power differential. Bonus points if this involves the Tippyverse slowly sliding into factional politics as people start to use their sympathy for the small orphan to break away from the rule of the wizard in the sky and go independent.

That's the power of plot, you can tell any story you want.

How about this one:

Spoiler

Show

The TV invade, using their wish engines and multiple spell-resetting wish traps, and initially devastate the HP forces. However, not understanding the delicate balance between wizard and muggle, they bring magic out into the open, and the muggles secretly join forces with the HP forces. Together they launch a daring raid to capture a wish engine, and then replicate in a secret lab. A short amount of high-powered mass-product later, the earth is in an arms race using the TV's principle weapon, the wish engine, but with an infrastructure and industrial mindset alien to the TV invaders. Shortly thereafter, an army of 100 ft high unkillable (voyager horcrux enable) cybernetic monster robots armed with computer driven wish machine guns capable of algorithmically targeting over a 1000 wishes a second backwards through time to a point identified chaotically using HP-style non-linear divination. The wishes, powered by a replica elder wand interface, are not counterable. These robots also self-duplicate via time turner technology, exponentially filling the target area with endlessly multiplying duplicates of themselves. They systemically reformat the entire TV universe so it never occurred in the first place, achieving total annihilation of the entire crystal sphere system in a little under 0.46 seconds, destroying the crystal sphere, severing all planar connections and rendering the entire HP universe forever unreacheable even by epic magic or divine power.

Of course, we could let the TV people do something cool too, but where's the fun in that?

[Raineh Daze]

Characters from the Tippyverse would find themselves subject to a prophecy that foretells their eventual defeat at the hand of a small orphan, despite any precautions they may take or any obvious power differential. Bonus points if this involves the Tippyverse slowly sliding into factional politics as people start to use their sympathy for the small orphan to break away from the rule of the wizard in the sky and go independent.

That's the power of plot, you can tell any story you want.

How about this one:

Spoiler

Show

The TV invade, using their wish engines and multiple spell-resetting wish traps, and initially devastate the HP forces. However, not understanding the delicate balance between wizard and muggle, they bring magic out into the open, and the muggles secretly join forces with the HP forces. Together they launch a daring raid to capture a wish engine, and then replicate in a secret lab. A short amount of high-powered mass-product later, the earth is in an arms race using the TV's principle weapon, the wish engine, but with an infrastructure and industrial mindset alien to the TV invaders. Shortly thereafter, an army of 100 ft high unkillable (voyager horcrux enable) cybernetic monster robots armed with computer driven wish machine guns capable of algorithmically targeting over a 1000 wishes a second backwards through time to a point identified chaotically using HP-style non-linear divination. The wishes, powered by a replica elder wand interface, are not counterable. These robots also self-duplicate via time turner technology, exponentially filling the target area with endlessly multiplying duplicates of themselves. They systemically reformat the entire TV universe so it never occurred in the first place, achieving total annihilation of the entire crystal sphere system in a little under 0.46 seconds, destroying the crystal sphere, severing all planar connections and rendering the entire HP universe forever unreacheable even by epic magic or divine power.

Of course, we could let the TV people do something cool too, but where's the fun in that?

I don't think any of this really gets past the issue of 'can only be killed by themselves'.

Also, I don't think muggles have the capability to reproduce high CL D&D magic items, so the entire scenario fails miserably (not to mention banking on the extremely unreliable HP divination)

[Arcanist]

Characters from the Tippyverse would find themselves subject to a prophecy that foretells their eventual defeat at the hand of a small orphan, despite any precautions they may take or any obvious power differential.

Clarification: The Wizard-In-The-Sky would never allow such a prophecy to become common knowledge and the moment he comes aware of him would send an Ice Assassin of himself (The Wizard-In-The-Sky LMD) to his home to slaughter him, his friends, his family and anyone else he happens to care about (Failure being an impossibility since he can just keep sending more and more, hell if the Wizard-In-The-Sky wishes he can travel back in time and just prevent the poor S.O.B. from ever existing). Getting away with a Lightning Bolt scar (Actually disguised as a Symbol of Pain trap that triggers whenever he tries to cast a spell and auto-resets) will be a blessing compared to what he does to that little boy gets (most likely an eternity of torture in some far-realm prison).

Never underestimate the power of... Power!

[Mystic Muse]

Ok, consider this, HP has an unbreakable mind control ability that cannot be resisted that lasts until the death of the caster.

Umm...no. In fact, harry resisted this ability in his fourth year at Hogwarts, so clearly you get a will save, so mind blank should make you immune, and even if it doesn't, the rather high will saves of D&D-verse wizards means they could in fact resist it.

Plus, this is assuming the potterverse wizards can even get within range of the D&D-verse wizards, which wouldn't be the case with Tippy-verse wizards, since they're all so paranoid (And rightfully so) they basically send proxies and stuff to take care of things rather than risk it themselves.

[Fouredged Sword]

A pair of goblins from TV steal all objects in the PV universe through free action epic slight of hand. Yes, even that.

The PV wizards now lack wands, have a nice day.

[Spuddles]

D&D magic works very differently from magic in most settings, HP included.

D&D magic, due to the rules heavy nature of the system, and the rules lawyers that play it, is more like technology than "magic". Magic in D&D is a known quantity- predictable, without risk, and easily usable. The tippyverse is an entire campaign setting designed around the rules, whereas most rule sets are designed around a campaign setting.

Not only is D&D magic over 9000, there's no risk with turning the dials past 11. You can't really do that in most other settings. Even in D&D, every setting has some civilization going full retard with magic, for instance, the Suel (greyhawk), Thassilonians (golarion), Xendrik (eberron), and Netherese (Forgotten Realms).

[Hecuba]

The principle advantages PV magic has over D&D magic are:

• No Spells/day limitation
• Early access to specific abilities corresponding to powerful (but not extremely powerful) spells in D&D
• Seemingly easier access to item creation feats without XP costs (though the access function may simply be a social tendency)

While this would give them a significant advantage over any of the relevant published example characters, all of these advantages are effectively available through sufficient optimization in D&D. Likely on the same character.

And the Tippyverse is explicitly optimized.

[Arcanist]

Even in D&D, every setting has some civilization going full retard with magic, for instance, the Suel (greyhawk), Thassilonians (golarion), Xendrik (eberron), and Netherese (Forgotten Realms).

HEY! ... That... Is... Not false in the slightest

[Tulya]

Has Rowling ever actually set out sufficiently detailed rules of magic in the Potterverse that you can take out to their logical extreme and generate a Tippyverse?

My impression from the books is that the rules of magic are a hodgepodge of arbitrary and sometimes inconsistent rule 0 rulings combined with some general principles that absolutely necessitate DM adjudication to use - much like creating novel spells and magic items not strictly based off of existing spells in D&D.
That, and there are several major implications that the perspectives of magic presented in the book are extremely anthropocentric, and not necessarily fundamental rules of the magic.

[hamishspence]

Not only is D&D magic over 9000, there's no risk with turning the dials past 11. You can't really do that in most other settings. Even in D&D, every setting has some civilization going full retard with magic, for instance, the Suel (greyhawk), Thassilonians (golarion), Xendrik (eberron), and Netherese (Forgotten Realms).

The Netherese weren't the only ones- I think the Imaskari might also qualify.

[Emmerask]

Has Rowling ever actually set out sufficiently detailed rules of magic in the Potterverse that you can take out to their logical extreme and generate a Tippyverse?

My impression from the books is that the rules of magic are a hodgepodge of arbitrary and sometimes inconsistent rule 0 rulings combined with some general principles that absolutely necessitate DM adjudication to use - much like creating novel spells and magic items not strictly based off of existing spells in D&D.
That, and there are several major implications that the perspectives of magic presented in the book are extremely anthropocentric, and not necessarily fundamental rules of the magic.

So for all intents and purposes its almost identical to the 3.5 magic system ?

[Spuddles]

The Netherese weren't the only ones- I think the Imaskari might also qualify.

I'm not too familiar with FR, but there are some other empires that were crushed by their own magic. At least one other one in Golarion, Greyhawk, and Eberron, but I cant remember their names. I am sure FR has a couple others that escape me. I use Lost Empires of FR all the time for OP builds but rarely look at the fluf :/

Sauron & Voldemort also kind of do themselves in with magic. I am sure tvtropes has like 12 variations of this cliche and all the animes it's ever shown up in.

[Arcanist]

The Netherese weren't the only ones- I think the Imaskari might also qualify.

Actually the Imaskari just enslaved a group of people from across the planes and severed their connections to their Gods which caused them to become the focus of those very same Gods who asked Ao if they can come in and just clear that problem right up, which he was totally down for since he was sick and tired of having to listen to their prayers day in and out.

Honestly, the entire catastrophe behind the Imaskari is because Ao was being a lazy ass and didn't want to teach the new guys in his crystal sphere how divinity works in these parts, so technically it was just a nice cool piece of 24-karots of bad luck

[Spuddles]

HEY! ... That... Is... Not false in the slightest

I'm... not sure what the frowny faces are for?

[Raineh Daze]

Nobody beats Netheril in sheer magical overkill, though.

Starting with all their cities being built out of mountaintops they hacked off and made fly. Then there's the mythalar in general...

Also, I think Karsus was level 40 something. Seriously, what.

[hamishspence]

Honestly, the entire catastrophe behind the Imaskari is because Ao was being a lazy ass and didn't want to teach the new guys in his crystal sphere how divinity works in these parts, so technically it was just a nice cool piece of 24-karots of bad luck

The result being a massive showdown between gods and Imaskari Artificers- I think some gods were killed in the process.

Even after they won, some Imaskari escaped into the Underdark.

Other magocratic collapses- I think the Ruamatheri Empire were destroyed by Kossuth after they summoned him to destroy their enemies. One group of Raumathari survivors became the Witches of Rashemen.

It seems rather common in FR for magic-heavy empires to fall, and the survivors to build new magic-heavy kingdoms.

[Khatoblepas]

Before you even start to think about the Tippyverse invading anyone, you've got to think: What's in it for them? Sure, they can take over the Potterverse, but the most powerful magic items in the Potterverse are, what, an At-will item of Teleport Through Time?

Please, everyone in the Tippyverse is already hooked up to Mindrape traps that make them absolutely blissful and then go through a trap of Distilled Joy, constantly while a Planar Bubble emulates the sustaining environment of Elysium, while rocks are being Polymorph Any Objected into people so that they can be ritually sacrificed by sentient golems with ludicrous amounts of Knowledge (religion). Any object the world leader desires is his to command, and any creature is his to create. There is nothing that can stand against him, so why bother doing it? The Potterverse has nothing he wants. His every wish is already reality, and his every whim satisfied.

Basically, the Sky Wizard has already lost, since there's no reason for him to do anything at all.

[Emmerask]

Most powerful item imo is the luck potion.

[Arcanist]

I'm... not sure what the frowny faces are for?

It is no secret that I:

1. Like magic
2. Like the Netherese and the other ancient cultures in the Realms

While I would try to argue that they didn't bring it upon themselves, they did whether they were aware of it or not. It's like every single Empire (fictional or otherwise) can only go so high before burning itself out and with the Netherese, they achieved the ultimate irony in trying to gain mastery over magic and inadvertently stripping themselves of it (momentarily).

Nobody beats Netheril in sheer magical overkill, though.

Starting with all their cities being built out of mountaintops they hacked off and made fly. Then there's the mythalar in general...

Also, I think Karsus was level 40 something. Seriously, what.

Karsus was a 41st level Arcanist specialized in Mentalism. Yes, one of the most powerful known spellcasters of all time fought with Illusions, Enchantments and, quite obviously, Divinations

I think it is fair to say that I am wrong in the statement that the Netherese shot themselves in the foot... Karsus shot Netheril in the foot and the bullet ricocheted and blew his head off...

The result being a massive showdown between gods and Imaskari Artificers- I think some gods were killed in the process.

Even after they won, some Imaskari escaped into the Underdark.

Other magocratic collapses- I think the Ruamatheri Empire were destroyed by Kossuth after they summoned him to destroy their enemies. One group of Raumathari survivors became the Witches of Rashemen.

It seems rather common in FR for magic-heavy empires to fall, and the survivors to build new magic-heavy kingdoms.

It is a common theme in a lot of fictions for new empires to be born from new empires. Sooner or later an up and coming nation will announce itself as an Empire and everything will be great and dandy for a while and then everything will crash. Life is like a Rollercoaster. Even if it is a fictional life, this rule still applies.

Basically, the Sky Wizard has already lost, since there's no reason for him to do anything at all.

I don't know about you, but in the business we call that "Winning"

[unseenmage]

Before you even start to think about the Tippyverse invading anyone, you've got to think: What's in it for them? Sure, they can take over the Potterverse, but the most powerful magic items in the Potterverse are, what, an At-will item of Teleport Through Time?

Please, everyone in the Tippyverse is already hooked up to Mindrape traps that make them absolutely blissful and then go through a trap of Distilled Joy, constantly while a Planar Bubble emulates the sustaining environment of Elysium, while rocks are being Polymorph Any Objected into people so that they can be ritually sacrificed by sentient golems with ludicrous amounts of Knowledge (religion). Any object the world leader desires is his to command, and any creature is his to create. There is nothing that can stand against him, so why bother doing it? The Potterverse has nothing he wants. His every wish is already reality, and his every whim satisfied.

Basically, the Sky Wizard has already lost, since there's no reason for him to do anything at all.

This. Very much this.

You wind up with a Superman vs Goku scenario. Neither side would ever give their all to even fight the other let alone try to obliterate the other.

They're both just cool dudes who've already won in their universe and have good enough sense to not meddle in the universe of others.


Then again Potterverse could try to invade chasing some rumor of a BBEG of theirs who's escaped in that direction. But then not only their lost BBEG but their invading forces would be blissed out and woven into the fold so to speak.

[Flickerdart]

Most powerful item imo is the luck potion.

"Luck can only get you so far, Harry..."

[Emmerask]

It is still the most powerful thing they have, and since it is just potioneering without magic involved (I assume) its something the d&d universe might actually want... the whole potioneering aspect could be interesting in fact.

So there is something wizards might want to learn/steal ie a motif to invade ^^

[Raineh Daze]

Karsus was a 41st level Arcanist specialized in Mentalism. Yes, one of the most powerful known spellcasters of all time fought with Illusions, Enchantments and, quite obviously, Divinations

I think it is fair to say that I am wrong in the statement that the Netherese shot themselves in the foot... Karsus shot Netheril in the foot and the bullet ricocheted and blew his head off...

I think you've understated things. Not 'one of the most powerful known'. I think you can safely remove the 'one of'.

What really seems to be the problem is that Karsus picked entirely the wrong god to target. Seriously, if you want to borrow a god's power for a little bit, fine; but if you're using magic to do so, why the hell would you target the Goddess of Magic?

[Arcanist]

It is still the most powerful thing they have, and since it is just potioneering without magic involved (I assume) its something the d&d universe might actually want... the whole potioneering aspect could be interesting in fact.

So there is something wizards might want to learn/steal ie a motif to invade ^^

Just capture one guy who knows how to make it, drain the information from his brain, and throw him back while no one being any the wiser.

[Khatoblepas]

It is still the most powerful thing they have, and since it is just potioneering without magic involved (I assume) its something the d&d universe might actually want... the whole potioneering aspect could be interesting in fact.

So there is something wizards might want to learn/steal ie a motif to invade ^^

Greater Invisibility + Plane Shift + Teleport Without Error + Mindrape. No need to invade at all.

(haha, wow, getting that information took less than 5 rounds)

[Flickerdart]

Seriously, if you want to borrow a god's power for a little bit, fine; but if you're using magic to do so, why the hell would you target the Goddess of Magic?

It's probably much easier to do so - you can simply run the spell back to the entity that grants them, instead of having to aim it at another god and possibly have it be defeated by defenses that the current of magic from the Weave doesn't have because it was only ever intended to go one way.

[Darth Stabber]

The lord voldermort kills everyone because he Horicruxed the voyager plate, and is unkillable. For those who get the reference.

So many ways to deal with people well nigh permanantly that don't involve killing them. But now we know why voldemort wanted to take over, he was preparing for the tippyverse's invasion and needed to unify the world under one leader and make the spells he thought would help more well known and ready to go.