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  1. - Top - End - #331
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Quote Originally Posted by Requizen View Post
    what army would you say is the best Assault-oriented? I mean Nids used to seem the obvious choice but they've gone very shooty with TL Devo Flyrant, Hive Guard, and mass Gants.
    Tyranids and Daemons. If you want to Assault things, spam Monstrous Creatures and Iron Arm. They're hard to kill and hit like a truck. Just because you gave your Flyrant TL Devourers, doesn't mean he doesn't have Smash and T6 anymore. Daemons also have Screamers and Baleswords/Witstealers.

    If you aren't playing MC-spam, then you're playing Land Raider spam with Chaos Marines and Khorne Marines. Two Terminator Lords with Axe of Blind Fury and the other with Black Mace. Roll up in your Land Raiders.

    These three armies are the only 'Assault armies' that can actually do it properly. Other armies - like Space Wolves - have exactly one good Assault unit, so it doesn't count because the other 80+% is going to be Shooty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    Probably gonna be orks. never underestimate the power of 2/3 of a S4 attack per point.
    Orks are really, really bad. What's the point in having good attacks if you can't make it to Assault in the first place? Listen up you primitive screwheads, this is my Boltgun!
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2013-10-28 at 04:51 PM.
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  2. - Top - End - #332
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    So i'm guessing Black Templars and Grey Knights aren't assaulty armies? Not too surprised, but I did find it interesting how my friend went from playing Black Templar assault to Grey Knight assault due to Black Templar assault not being good enough/able to close the distance.
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  3. - Top - End - #333
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    My main list is a Space wolf assault list, relying on a ThunderwolfLord deathstar supported by Fenwolves, IG chimeras with flamers/meltas (IG equiv of assault squads) and vendetta support with the actual scoring units inside.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    The IG equivalent of assault squads is Ogryns. And nobody uses them.
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  5. - Top - End - #335
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Quote Originally Posted by Tychris1 View Post
    So i'm guessing Black Templars and Grey Knights aren't assaulty armies?
    Depends how many points you're playing and how many Land Raiders you can fit in. Of course, I'm thinking of Grey Knights as 'Coteaz & Friends', rather than as a Space Marine list. Crowe + Land Raiders makes a decent Assault list.

    Problem is, nearly all 'rush' armies took a nerf.

    Q: If a unit disembarks from a destroyed vehicle during the
    enemy turn, can it Charge in the Assault phase of its own
    turn? (p80)
    A: No, unless the vehicle in question was an Assault
    Vehicle

    You get shot at in their turn. And you can't Charge in your turn. Essentially, you get shot at twice after your Transport gets destroyed. All Assault armies need to be on foot, or in Assault Vehicles. No exceptions. That said, being on foot presents its own problems, which is why so many armies find it hard to Assault - because they can't get there in the first place!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rakaydos View Post
    IG chimeras with flamers/meltas (IG equiv of assault squads)
    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade Paladin View Post
    The IG equivalent of assault squads is Ogryns. And nobody uses them.
    For a unit to be an Assault unit, it must deal the majority of it's damage in the Assault phase. Neither of those units do that (including the Ogryns ).

    An IG Assault Squad is;

    Azrael - 215 Points
    Infantry Squad - Melta Bombs, Power Axe, Flamer - 70 Points
    Infantry Squad - Melta Bombs, Power Axe, Flamer - 70 Points
    Infantry Squad - Melta Bombs, Power Axe, Flamer - 70 Points
    Infantry Squad - Melta Bombs, Power Axe, Flamer - 70 Points
    Infantry Squad - Melta Bombs, Power Axe, Flamer - 70 Points

    You can sub in Logan for Azrael for +60 Points. But then your unit doesn't have a 4++.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2013-10-29 at 01:42 AM.
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  6. - Top - End - #336
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Couldn't a guard army assault by buffing up a blob or two with 'Iron Arm' Straken? As I recall he gives nearby guardsmen furious charge which would be terrifying when you consider the sheer scale a guard squad can get to.
    Sanity is nice to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim Portent View Post
    Couldn't a guard army assault by buffing up a blob or two with 'Iron Arm' Straken?
    A Guard army could. But that involves putting an Order-giving unit anywhere near an opponents' unit.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Like in a chimera behind 100+ guardsmen?
    Sanity is nice to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim Portent View Post
    Like in a chimera behind 100+ guardsmen?
    Come on, now you're just trying to be Orks, and not even Orks want to be doing that.
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  10. - Top - End - #340
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Come on, now you're just trying to be Orks, and not even Orks want to be doing that.
    I don'tz know, 'umies are perfect for gettin' shot at so da boyz don't haf to!

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    I would gladly screen my berzerkers with 500 points of flak armoured mobile cover.
    Sanity is nice to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    I was under the impression that Blood Angels were supposed to be the "assaulty" Space Marines force, kind of a Blitzkreig with all their fast moving assault units. Or is that kind of an outdated strategy?

    I really ask because I'm working on finishing up my 'Crons, and for my second army I want to go in the opposite direction. That is, assaulty instead of shooty. I like Tyranids a lot, but am wary about buying them until the codex drops in January. Aside from stuff that's going to remain good like Tyrants and Gaunts/Gants.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Quote Originally Posted by Requizen View Post
    I was under the impression that Blood Angels were supposed to be the "assaulty" Space Marines force, kind of a Blitzkreig with all their fast moving assault units. Or is that kind of an outdated strategy?
    Emphasis mine. They're meant to be good at assault, they just... aren't, really. You're better off taking the 2-point discount on marines and calling it a day, unless you're willing to spam the few units that make BA worth it.

  14. - Top - End - #344
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    You're better off taking the 2-point discount on marines and calling it a day, unless you're willing to spam the few units that make BA worth it.
    'Just play Space Marines' is never the correct answer. It may be, later down the track. But, if someone tells you that they want to build an Assault army, and wants to do it with Blood Angels, you tell them how. Or, you point them to Space Wolves who can flood with Blood Claws. Dark Angels aren't dead. Neither are Blood Angels. If you think they are, it's because you're using them wrong.

    Why is everyone sad about Blood Angels? Because their entire Rhino/Razorspam list became garbage. Nearly every single model that a 5th Edition BA player had became useless in 6th Ed. because of the nerf to any Transport that isn't an Assault Vehicle. Guess what? Non-Land Raider Mech sucks. Throw your Blood Angels away, or start from scratch. Not many people were willing to do that. Dark Eldar were in the same boat. Your entire 5th Ed. army is now bad. Start again for 6th Edition. ...And a lot of that residual hatred is left over, and people forgot what else they could do with the Codex. But, new players who start brand new in 6th, don't have that baggage train of hate and some people actually place with them.

    So here's what Blood Angels can do;
    Dante (and Sanguinary Guard) and/or Mephiston, and BA Librarians
    Librarian Dreadnoughts in Drop Pods.
    Frag Cannons in Drop Pods.
    Death Company
    40+ Assault Marines (yes, 40+, any less is no good).
    Baal Predators
    Blood Angel Stormravens
    Land Raider Dedicated Transports for everyone.

    If your meta is full of Eldar and/or Tau - like, full - then don't play Blood Angels, it's not worth it. Play fast moving Daemons instead.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2013-10-29 at 11:17 AM.
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  15. - Top - End - #345
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Yeah, as someone relatively new I don't really feel like any of the armies are entirely trash, but I've seen people quit over changes, I guess like any other game.

    There's this dude at my LGS that played BT, has a giant shoulder tat of their insignia. He sold all of them and quit because they don't have a codex of their own anymore...

    Some people lol.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    'Just play Space Marines' is never the correct answer. It may be, later down the track. But, if someone tells you that they want to build an Assault army, and wants to do it with Blood Angels, you tell them how. Or, you point them to Space Wolves who can flood with Blood Claws. Dark Angels aren't dead. Neither are Blood Angels. If you think they are, it's because you're using them wrong.
    Do you have something against subordinate clauses, or do you just not like reading my posts before replying?

  17. - Top - End - #347
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    'Just play Space Marines' is never the correct answer. It may be, later down the track. But, if someone tells you that they want to build an Assault army, and wants to do it with Blood Angels, you tell them how. Or, you point them to Space Wolves who can flood with Blood Claws. Dark Angels aren't dead. Neither are Blood Angels. If you think they are, it's because you're using them wrong.

    Why is everyone sad about Blood Angels? Because their entire Rhino/Razorspam list became garbage. Nearly every single model that a 5th Edition BA player had became useless in 6th Ed. because of the nerf to any Transport that isn't an Assault Vehicle. Guess what? Non-Land Raider Mech sucks. Throw your Blood Angels away, or start from scratch. Not many people were willing to do that. Dark Eldar were in the same boat. Your entire 5th Ed. army is now bad. Start again for 6th Edition. ...And a lot of that residual hatred is left over, and people forgot what else they could do with the Codex. But, new players who start brand new in 6th, don't have that baggage train of hate and some people actually place with them.

    So here's what Blood Angels can do;
    Dante (and Sanguinary Guard) and/or Mephiston, and BA Librarians
    Librarian Dreadnoughts in Drop Pods.
    Frag Cannons in Drop Pods.
    Death Company
    40+ Assault Marines (yes, 40+, any less is no good).
    Baal Predators
    Blood Angel Stormravens
    Land Raider Dedicated Transports for everyone.

    If your meta is full of Eldar and/or Tau - like, full - then don't play Blood Angels, it's not worth it. Play fast moving Daemons instead.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Why is everyone sad about Blood Angels?
    Not GW, apparently - the next digitally released Codex is going to be Blood Angels. SOMEONE out there wants us to play them it seems....

    ....All the more emphasized by Codex: Inquisition coming in November, as if they don't want people buying Codex: Grey Knights to make what is basically the same damn thing anymore.

    Meh, I'll just stick with my Codex: Assassins, thanks very much.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Wait, what? Is Codex: Inquisition going to replace Grey Knights or is it a different army?

    Edit: nvm, read the release. Interesting.
    Last edited by Requizen; 2013-10-29 at 04:27 PM.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    From the blurb, it will apparently have rules for including an Inquisitor and retinue in any Imperial army, so I doubt it will replace any of them rather than being a set of units added to every Imperial army list or perhaps fieldable as an allied detachment. This is something that Grey Knights doesn't presently do, since they aren't battle brothers with anybody, which means the Inquisitors in the book aren't either.
    Last edited by Renegade Paladin; 2013-10-29 at 04:28 PM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    So basically, it appears to be "Codex: Coteaz". Again.

    Unless they include official rules for a Deathwatch squad, I can't imagine that it's going to be a revelation.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    While including the Deathwatch would be excellent, I doubt they're going to do that when they can just copy-paste the Inquisition units from Grey Knights and change their allies matrix to Battle Brothers with all Imperial forces. The pattern with the e-books so far seems to be just repackaging what they've already done with little to no effort spent on new content.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Not all Imperial forces. One would think Space Wolves and Dark Angels would fall into the desperate allies range given their distrust of the Inquisition.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Quote Originally Posted by Ceridan View Post
    Not all Imperial forces. One would think Space Wolves and Dark Angels would fall into the desperate allies range given their distrust of the Inquisition.
    It's more complex than that. The Space Wolves have been known to vigorously defend Inquisitors they get on well with.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Orks are really, really bad. What's the point in having good attacks if you can't make it to Assault in the first place? Listen up you primitive screwheads, this is my Boltgun!
    See, it's claims like this that make me yearn for a meta closer to what you play in, because I just can't tell if I'm too good for where I am or you have no idea what you're talking about. Props for the AoD reference, either way.

    To clarify, I understand that Orks SHOULD be bad, on paper. No armor or invuls, mediocre anti-tank options, bad transports, ramshackle everything, passable flyers.......But in spite of all that, I haven't lost a single game since 6th Edition started. Granted, I do not get to play as much as I'd like, but I have still had quite a few games at many different point values, against many different armies, and my Boyz pull through for me time and again. And not just "I played to the mission, so I snuck in enough points to win" either. I mean complete tabling with over half my force still kicking around. I mean spending the last 2 turns CHASING DOWN the final vestiges of my enemy army with a few spare units while my Troops sat back on the objectives and laughed their heads off.

    Sure, some of it is luck. My Shootaboyz perform well above their statistical average, and my 500pt Nob Bikerz have faced some 2000+ points worth of shooting without losing a single wound (God, they were so mad at me after that), but that couldn't possibly account for EVERY game I've had that's gone like that.

    Am I just too good for my meta? I suppose we ARE weighted pretty heavily away from Marines, but we have Tau and Necrons. And Tyranids in their monobuild. We DID just pick up a Vanilla and a Wolves player, though. This needs more testing before I can confirm anything. Which means....more 40k! I love testing.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Quote Originally Posted by Hootman View Post
    But in spite of all that, I haven't lost a single game since 6th Edition started.
    Let's be clear, the start of 6th Edition, was a completely different game to the Tau/Eldar era of 6th Edition. Kustom Force Fields were a Mork-send to Orks everywhere, and Nob Bikers being flat out upgraded to T5 and two wounds each with a permanent Cover Save, etc.

    Then Tau/Eldar have the ability to negate Cover Saves, and chuck out a whole lot of shots and then get free Overwatches for no reason, etc.

    Orks can still win Objective-based missions. There are flat out just too many models on the board. However, Kill Points are nearly always factored in at tournaments simply because "I killed 10 of your units, and you killed 3 of mine, and you win because you camped the Objective with a 30-man unit that I couldn't even hurt? What!?" doesn't quite make sense so tournamnts generally have multi-objective missions.

    I have more KPs, I get X points.
    I have more Objectives, I get X points.
    I did [Mission] so I get X points.
    Plus secondaries.

    [Mission Objectives] are a pain in the arse because its whatever the TO thinks will be 'fun'. But, that's why you read Players' Packs before the tournament and you build your army to suit.

    Am I just too good for my meta? I suppose we ARE weighted pretty heavily away from Marines, but we have Tau and Necrons. And Tyranids in their monobuild. We DID just pick up a Vanilla and a Wolves player, though.
    How do Tau lose to Orks? That doesn't make any sense! Although, if you're running a 500+ Point Nob unit, that'd do it. Tau don't do well against fast-moving units that can get in their face, fast.
    ...So ForgeWorld invented R'varna suits! Because why should Tau ever lose to anything?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Let's be clear, the start of 6th Edition, was a completely different game to the Tau/Eldar era of 6th Edition. Kustom Force Fields were a Mork-send to Orks everywhere, and Nob Bikers being flat out upgraded to T5 and two wounds each with a permanent Cover Save, etc.
    Fair enough. Though I haven't actually used a KFF in....god, since 'Ard Boyz stopped being a thing? My Biker Boss is just so....easy. And my Warphead is the king of 'Ere We Go when he's hanging out with Burnaboyz.

    How do Tau lose to Orks? That doesn't make any sense! Although, if you're running a 500+ Point Nob unit, that'd do it. Tau don't do well against fast-moving units that can get in their face, fast.
    ...So ForgeWorld invented R'varna suits! Because why should Tau ever lose to anything?
    I've actually had to stop using my Nobs in anything less than (or even equal to) 2000 points, because no one wants to deal with their shenanigans and I don't want my opponents to just refuse to play me and/or break down in tears. So instead I just throw like 4 Meganobz in a Trukk to distract people for the first turn and bring in another 60+ Boyz behind them to roll over the opposition. It...sort of always works, in some way or another.

    Goddamn, I really want to play more 40k right now. I hate being 45 minutes away from my FLGS during the middle of the week.

  28. - Top - End - #358
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    Griffon

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Codex: Orks
    WAAAAAGH!!!!!

    Ork Special Rules
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    Waaagh! - Once per game, your whole army has Fleet of Foot, with a small drawback. It's hard to say that this is a big help to the average Ork army; most of your units should be on bikes or in transports, and the sort of massed fire power that you can get from thirty Assault 2 Shootas to soften up the enemy before the charge shouldn't be passed up. Save it for Turn 6, and run for objectives if you can't spare the time to re-embark onto a Trukk.

    Mob Rule - Your unit's Leadership is equal to the number of models in it; units bigger than 10 models are Fearless. You should never NOT invoke this rule in your Troops! A unit of 30 Ork Boys has to take 20 wounds before it has to take a Morale Test, so put them on an Objective, Go To Ground and forget about it. The downside is that if you're doing this, you're not taking Transports - Ork transports have a maximum capacity of 12, and it's very easy to pick up a couple of casualties and lose the benefit - so this rule pretty much decides how your army is going to look. A small unit in a Trukk/Wagon, or a full sized Mob on foot - there's absolutely no point in taking anything in between.


    HQ Choices
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    Warboss - Ork HQ are all about Force Multiplication - what they bring to the army other than their personal stats and equipment. In that respect, a Warboss is pretty tame. His stats are decent but not great, and his choice of equipment is actually quite poor - he wants to be in Close Combat, but is only I4 so you're pretty much always going to take a Power Klaw and be s10 instead. He's T5, but his Saving Throws are either pretty unremarkable or Mega Armour, which has it's own problems. In short he will eat basic Troops all day long but a half-decent Assault orientated unit, or another character who is equipped for challenges (Are there any other kinds?) will beat him down.
    A Warboss' big strength is that he lets you take one unit of Nobz or Meganobz as a Troops choice, and everybody has probably heard that Biker Nobz are the best thing in the Ork book. More on that later but quickly: they're still worth taking, but given the cost involved you will want one or the other, and if you take Bikers you will a) want to put the Warboss with them and b) thus lose Mega Armour, making him kinda fragile.
    Bosspoles are mandatory, 'Eavy Armour and a cybork body practically are too.
    It can be argued that taking two Warbosses allows you to take two units of Nobz/Meganobz as Troops. The wording suggests a 'one for one' arrangement but does not specify. As the errata makes no mention of it, consult your TO before taking to the table, some might have different ideas to others.

    Big Mek - This entry basically reads: "Kustom Force Field, 85pts". That's why he's here, either as your army rolls up the board and comes under fire or as they squat on an objective and now need 27 wounds before they try to run away. Otherwise, he's not great in a fight but his equipment is mostly the same as the Warboss so add a Bosspole, Armour and a set of weapons and he'll be fine if you keep him away from Challenges. Shokk Attack Guns can have their moments, but a significant amount of Ork weaponry and abilities are random enough without relying on yet more to get by.
    He also allows you to take one Deff Dread as a Troop option. If you really, really want a Deff Dread then this is probably the way to do it, since you have more vital things to take in your Heavy slots, but they're not really worth it.
    Like Warbosses - Does taking 2 Meks allow you to take 2 Deff Dreads as Troops? The Codex could be argued either way, and the errata is no help at all.

    Weirdboy - Yeah, you thought that Eldar having to randomly roll their powers at the start of the game, was a demotion from their old Codex where they picked exactly what they wanted in their army list? Try rerolling your power new at the start of every turn, sucker! The Warphead upgrade is therefore mandatory, if you want any chance of getting a relevant power, but quite frankly you're very rarely going to get a useful power as and when you need it. Easily the least reliable - and thus, least useful - HQ choice.

    Ork Psychic Powers
    • 'Eadbanger - Always only ever a penalty that is going to hurt you, as powers 1, 2 and 3 can't be used in close combat. Have fun with that!
    • Frazzle - An AP3 Blast attack that doesn't scatter. Pretty good.
    • Zzzap - 36" range with Melta and you don't know when you can use it? That's.... not helpful. Still, if you can get it then it's actually a really good anti-vehicle attack, considering what else Orks have in comparison.
    • Warpath - Everyone in the unit gets +1A. Really, really good.... Unless you get it in the first 2 turns and (probably) can't assault anything.
    • 'Ere We Go - Your unit is forced to Deep Strike immediately, no exceptions. Great in turn 1 or 2 if you need to get close to your enemy quickly, terrible thereafter if you're already in a fight or trying to hold down an objective. A sensible Ork mob uses a Weirdboy to get where they want to go, then boots him out of the group to fend for himself thereafter.
    • Waaagh! - The whole army gains Fleet of Foot, potentially six times per game. If you don't get it in turn 2 or maybe 3, it's probably going to be wasted.


    Elites
    Spoiler
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    Nobz - Everyone likes Nobz. Even with 6th Edition changes to wound allocation, they're still very good as now, you don't have to bother with 'Musical Wounds'; Just give everyone 'Eavy Armour and Cybork bodies instead of picking and choosing! Painboyz are mandatory. At least one bosspole is mandatory (and hilarious, on units with multiple-wound models). An even split between Big Choppas and Power Klaws is usually a good idea, though at I3 you could probably go Klaw heavy and it wouldn't matter much.
    More than anything, they need a way of getting around. A Trukk is decent though fragile, but most people default to making the unit into Biker Nobz. It's expensive, but it's everything you could possibly need for a small (comparatively) unit; +1 toughness, a 4+ cover save and Hammer of Wrath to soften up your next victim. If you can afford to do it, you should strongly consider doing it - your opponent will hate you. Beware a cunning opponent who knows what they're doing and Assaults your Biker Nobz first. It negates a lot of your inherent bonuses, like your saves and Furious Charge, and thus - as good in CC as Nobz are - a well-prepared Assault unit is usually the best way to take them down.

    Meganobz - Decent stats, but they're nearly as expensive as Biker Nobz and not quite as flexible. A small unit Deep Struck into the middle of the enemy line can act as a good distraction, and if your opponent tries to ignore them then they put out a frightening amount of Power Klaw attacks as punishment. Ultimately they're slow and and have only one response to whatever is dumb enough to come close, but when it does? It's mincemeat.
    What really separates Meganobz from the other choices is their ability to take Battlewagons as Transports. With enough small units led by enough Warbosses (See above) you can potentially end up with up to 6 AV14 vehicles on the table. Keep an eye out for Outflankers targeting your side/rear armour, but there's potential for a lot of mayhem here.

    Burna Boyz - Once upon a time, it was common knowledge as to how much these guys sucked. The inclusion of Reaction Shots with 6th edition has, however, created a niche for them as a defensive unit. Park them on an objective and just dare your opponent to come and take it from you. If they don't, your Mek's Kustom mega-blasters can make his life difficult from a distance. Generally though, Burna Boyz are about 5pts each too expensive, and most other Elite units are better. Least of all, because they can't fire an Assault weapon AND fight effectively in Assault in the same turn....

    Tankbustas - Your most reliable source of s8 shooting, which in itself is depressing (BS2!) but not quite as depressing as their I2 and s10 close combat suckage. With Tankhammers they are a reasonable answer to an opponent's unit of Power Fist-using Terminators (but never a far more likely unit of Assault Terminators) and anything smaller than a Land Raider, but like Burna Boyz they're a bit too expensive and Nobz can do everything else better.

    Kommandos - Normal Orks that pay 3pts for Move Through Cover and Infiltrate, which would be a very good price on anything that wasn't a normal Ork. The big problem is, they just don't do much - they can pay extra for Burnaz and then get close enough to use them quickly, but normal Burna Boyz are already too expensive. Same for Rokkit Launchas, which don't NEED to get close (and are still BS2). They're pretty much nothing more than a blob of ablative wounds for....
    Boss Snikrot - An alternative for a Kommando Nob. A very expensive, and extremely underwhelming upgrade at that, too, as he's 85pts for +1A, +1WS and rerolling to hit. He doesn't even have a power weapon, or Rending. Avoid.

    Lootas - Ranges from a quite good, to very good, source of s7 shooting. A unit of 10 can take down almost any Monstrous Creature or medium-sized vehicle (AP12 or less) in a single round, and will do horrible things to other tough guys like Crisis Suits too. Again though, they're a bit too specialised to justify taking them all the time - though you can pay extra for s8 weapons by upgrading some Lootas to Meks and thus Instant Death capabilities, they're also quite expensive to start with. And STILL being BS2 means that you need to be lucky when determining your number of shots as one crummy dice can neuter the whole unit.!


    Troops
    Spoiler
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    Ork Boyz - At this price, Ork Boyz are a good unit. They can put out a ridiculous number of shots (and statistically, BS2 Assault2 to hit makes them better shots than BS4) and are decent in close combat, which only gets better as you can take more and more of them. If you're giving them Sluggas+Choppas, always give them Stickbombz - they're too cheap not to. If you're taking Shootaz, remember that Trukks are Open-Topped so you can roam around firing everything in one big barrage. Shouting "DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA" as you do so is mandatory.
    A unit of 'Ard Boyz are a decent investment, and Ork Boyz are still cheap enough to consider taking a full 30 of them. No matter what combination you take, you should always take as many Rokkit Launchas as you can (they may only be BS2, but how else are you going to break open enemy tanks if you don't take what little s8 you can get? Harsh language?) and a Nob with a Power Klaw (there's enough models between him and the opponent that he'll always get to use is) and a bosspole. You'll always appreciate having him around.

    Gretchin - If your army is footslogging, it's worth taking one full-size unit to use as a bullet-soaking screen; 30 ablative wounds with Mob Rule (and probably with a 5++ save, since you might have a Big Mek nearby) for under 120pts is amusing.
    There's not much else for them to do though, as they're so puny that they barely qualify as a tarpit, so generally they should find an objective early in the game, Go To Ground and stay there - it's going to take a lot of effort on your opponent's behalf to shift 30+ wounds with a decent cover save.


    Dedicated Transport
    Spoiler
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    Trukks - With a capacity of only 12, they severely limit the Mob Rule ability which is pretty damn important for Orks. Having said that, they are very cheap Fast, Assault Vehicles and the Ramshackle rule gives you a 1-in-3 chance of not taking any casualties from being wrecked, and a 1-in-3 chance of what is basically a free move closer to the opponent, which is probably what you wanted in the first place.
    As for Wargear, a Reinforced Ram and Red Paint Job will help you get to where you need to be faster (very important, if you're going down the Assault-orientated route) are useful, and Deff Rollas are hilarious on Assault Vehicles, but given the resilience of Trukks then they're probably going to explode and be removed before you have to worry about anything else. Take what you like, don't be surprised if you don't get a chance to use any of it.


    Fast Attack
    Spoiler
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    Stormboyz - Cheap (by the standards of other Codices, at least - they're still twice as expensive as Ork Boyz with the same statlines and equipment) jump infantry, but not really fast enough. If you can use them to tie up an enemy unit early in the game while you bring the rest of your army to bare, then you can save yourself from being shot at by something scary for a turn or 2. The thing is, you kind want this to happen as early as Turn 1, and Stormboyz won't do that - arguably, infiltrating Kommandos are preferable.
    Boss Zagstruk - Replaces the Nob in charge of the unit. As expensive as Snikrot, but much better for what you get, which is allowing his unit to Assault in the turn that it Deep Strikes (very good) AND a free s8 hit when he does (got to love a guy whose preferred method of warfare is the Goomba Stomp). If you must take Stormboyz, Zagstruk is a strong consideration. 'If'.

    Warbikers - Cheaper than Biker Nobz, but still with a lot of the benefits - tough, good save, fast moving. Like Ork Boyz, they're a good candidate for a Nob-with-Power Klaw delivery. Probably the best of the Fast Attack choices, certainly one of the better units in the book.

    Deffkoptas - All the normal benefits of Jetbikes, but are quite expensive and only come in small units. A unit full of Buzzsaws can easily make a dent in enemy vehicles, and a unit full of Bigbomms are fun against enemy hordes, but the upgrades are expensive to take together and it's very hard to justify a unit with only one or the other. Being able to Scout is a huge benefit, however....

    Warbuggies - Similar to Warbikes, except that they are more expensive and can't fight in close combat (they're vehicles) and as such rely on shooting. With BS2. For the price, it's still not worth paying extra to give them Skorchas either.
    Still.... They represent the single easiest way for you to get your hands on a lot of Twin-Linked Rokkit Launchas. If you have filled all your Heavy Support slots, all of your Troops are loaded up with Rokkit Launchas and you're still truly desperate for s8 shooting, BS2+Reroll to hit is statistically better than a Space Marine with BS4. But Warbikes are better for everything else, except Scouting, which Deff Koptas are for.


    Fast Attack (Fliers)
    Spoiler
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    Dakkajet: Cheapest Flier that Orks have access to - even after you've given it upgrades! Therefore, it's the best Flier. Not only that, it outputs a stupid number of shots at BS3 making it arguably a must-have in any Ork army that doesn't include Lootas - and, even if does. The best defence against Fliers, is Fliers of your own.

    Blitza-Bomma: Sacrifices the shooty power of the Dakkajet for Bombs. Not even remotely worth it.

    Burna-Bomma: Not as Shooty as the Dakkajet, and it's Bombs are less powerful. But, these Bombs Ignore Cover, which is good for taking out annoying units that have Gone to Ground or otherwise are just a pain to deal with (Like Rangers with 2+ Cover). Definitely does not have priority over Dakkajets, but, if you've already got two Dakkajets, and want to up your Flier count, then get a Burna-Bomma - or another Dakkajet!


    Heavy Support
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    Battlewagon - Your only source of AV14, and you can turn it into a frightening source of firepower. Fill it with Boyz, go crazy with Big Shootas and run it right at the enemy with a Deff Rolla and you'll have a lot of fun. If you'd rather give it a Killcannon, on the other hand, there's argument on either side; it's more expensive than a Looted Wagon and the gun isn't quite as good, but it's tougher and you don't have to worry about Don't Press Dat!. Decide on what role you want it to perform, and choose accordingly.

    Looted Wagon - As above. The Boomgun is very, very scary and one of your great sources of both s8, AP3 and Ordinance (for the armour penetration bonus).
    Honestly, though? I've fought against these things before, and in my opponents' place I'd take three if I could even smell MEQ on the breeze, screen them with Grots and let da Boyz worry about everything else.

    Deff Dread - Can be a cheap source of s10 close combat ability, but they don't synch well with the rest of the army. They're not all that tough, not all that great in a fight, they can't be moved very quickly and they are big targets even if you do go out of the way to support them. They demand a cover save constantly, for little in return.

    Killa Kans - Another cheap source of s10, but they're cheaper than a Deff Dread and you can take several of them, as backup for when a couple inevitably die. In many ways preferable to Dreads, but frankly the Ork Codex has a lot of competition between their Heavy choices and 'Kans don't even make third place.

    Big Gunz - Zzap Guns will, statistically, be a good source of at least s7 (20 times out of 36) and AP2, but that's 30 points for one BS3 shot. If you're taking them, take three and stock up on ammo runts, but otherwise Looted Wagons and Battlewagons are more reliable.

    Flash Gits - Painboyz are still awesome. At BS2, 'More Dakka' is mandatory. 'Shootier' and 'Blasta' are worthwhile but another expensive addition to an already expensive unit, so fit them in if you can. Flash Gits are one of your best units for mowing down enemy troops, and with A3 each they're pretty handy in a fight, too.
    Kaptain Badrukk - Decent gun for adding a tiny bit of consistency to a unit of Flash Gits, but he's otherwise quite unremarkable and FAR too damn expensive.


    Special Characters
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    Ghazghkull Thraka - He's got everything that marks a good Close Combat; 2+ armour, an invulnerable save, Eternal Warrior and a train-load of attacks with other stats to back it up. His 'Prophet of the Waaagh' ability is invaluable to a footslogging army. He's also nearly as expensive as a Land Raider, and has no choice but to fight at Initiative 1. He's expensive Deathstar material, sure, but quite frankly anything joining a unit of Nob Bikers or Meganobz can already do that.

    Mad Doc Grotsnik - He's 'okay' in a fight, but his unique abilities are a) usually going to be cancelled out by Mob Rule and b) a bloody pain in the neck that's going to get him and his unit killed off. If he could join Deep Striking Meganobz he'd be great, but alas....

    Wazdakka Gutsmek - Virtually identical to a Warboss on a Bike, but about 50 points more expensive because.... he can turbo-boost and shoot his gun in the same turn, and he can't get an invulnerable save. Sound good? No? Correct.

    Old Zogwort - Probably the worst fighter in the book after Squigs and Gretchin, but that's not what you want him for. You want him for his default psychic power, which is "you have a 50/50 chance to remove a target enemy Independent Character from the game instantly". It's not always useful - it's an Ork psychic power after all, so that shouldn't surprise you - and it doesn't apply to the glut of terrifying Monstrous Creatures that have come out since Codex: Orks was printed (not even HQ choices like Bloodthirsters and Special Characters like the Swarmlord) but.... In the right place at the right time? You can change the course of the game with one dice. Logan-, Draigo- or Nipplewing? Neutered. Eldar Farseer who thinks his Witch Helm is all that? Nope. Eldrad Ulthuan, said to be 'the most powerful mortal Psyker' in the game? Pfeh. Ahriman, the actual most powerful mortal psyker in the game? Squig'd. Kairos Fateweaver, the most powerful NON-mortal in the game? Suck it, bird boy!
    Zogwort is 145pts for the opportunity to make everyone hate you, forever. It's not reliable, it's not sensible, and it's not Tournament winning..... But it's funny.
    Neither the Codex nor the 40k Rulebook say whether or not a save is made against this power, invulnerable or otherwise. Given it's similarity to powers in other codices - Warp Quake and Jaws Of The World Wolf, for example - one could reasonably assume that the victim gets to 'Deny The Witch' but otherwise gets no other saves. Be sure to check with your TO before you start playing, though, as without a ruling from GW some people may read it differently to others.


    Allies
    Spoiler
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    Orks are Allies of Convenience with Tau, Imperial Guard, Necrons and Chaos Space Marines, which is somewhat convenient as all of these guys have good access to ranged weapons of s9 and higher, which Orks lack.

    As the Primary Attachment, Orks definitely like IG or Necrons best. A single Infantry Platoon can put out as much long ranged artillary as some entire Ork armies, as well as fielding some very good fliers (Valkyries) reliable tank busting (Meltavets, etc) and AV14/13 tanks, whereas Gauss Weapons can and will glance ANYTHING to death - especially AV14 vehicles, which Orks truley fear - while having some good fliers as well.
    Chaos Marines and Heldrakes are there for the same reason, especially Noise Marines - while Orks have enough 'Fearless' units to sit on objectives that Power Armoured allies aren't in such high demand, Noise Marines can do it while claiming and shooting some horrifying guns to boot.

    As the Allied Detachment, Orks bring numbers. Put a pile of 'Fearless' Ork Boyz in front of a Tau army and you not only have your Close Combat protection but suddenly your army is now twice as big, and still scoring.
    Chaos Space Marines, not so much - they have Cultists doing the same job, and cheaper, though Orks hit harder and die slower if that's what you need.
    Imperial Guard have a similar issue - they can already field as many bodies as they need, and their guns and vehicles are better than Orks. Still, Orks are a cheap and plentiful and are better in close combat so there'd be some synergy in rushing the Boyz forward while IG artillery fires over their heads.
    Necrons simply enjoy having big units of Warboss/Nobz roaming around, solving problems, notably because Orks do not yet have any "Primary Detachment" restrictions on them, as armies such as Dark Angels or Chaos Marines do.


    General Advice
    Spoiler
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    Your best units are:
    HQ - Big Mek + Kustom Force Field
    Elite - Biker Nobs
    Troops - Ork Boyz led by a Nob with a Power Klaw
    Fast Attack - Warbikes
    Heavy Support - A decent sized unit of Flash Gits with a tank on either side.
    Special Characters - Ghazgkhull if you're on foot, nobody if anything else.

    The vast majority of your shooting attacks cap out at strength 7. You have very, very few options for anything above s8 in shooting, so take what you can get as often as possible; if your best option for killing an enemy tank or Monstrous Creature is to chase it around the table trying to punch it - and it's not entirely unlikely that this could happen - you're in trouble.

    Orks units have a very limited access to what other armies consider special weapons - meltaguns, flamers, things that have specific roles that can be 'hidden' in normal units. Take what you can, when you can, or find an alternative and take lots of those instead (this will invariably be an Ork Nob with a Power Klaw and as many Ork Boyz as it takes to get him where he needs to use it).

    Don't take yourself too seriously. Codex: Orks is an old book and it's missing a lot of things that others take for granted, so be prepared to struggle. Make the most of small victories, be graceful with big victories, and when things are looking grim don't be afraid to scream 'Waaaagh!!!' and declare an assault or five. It'll probably work out okay in the end.
    Last edited by Wraith; 2013-11-02 at 11:52 AM.
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  29. - Top - End - #359
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    deuterio12's Avatar

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Pretty nice guide, some critique tough:
    -As pointed before, biker bosses are pretty damn good with their T6. Keep them inside other unit to avoid shooting, then at the last moment split them off and send them after some vehicle/squad that can't properly fight back at him. If your opponent sends their close combat specialists to chase after him, great, your boyz mobs are free to rampage around then!
    -For basic boyz special weapons, I prefer rokkit launchas over big shootas. The rokkit launchas just have one shot each sure, but S8 means they can pop up light vehciles reliably when they hit, and with three per blob, you're bound to hit at least one shot. Also helps softening up monstrous creatures with 3+ save.
    Last edited by deuterio12; 2013-11-01 at 12:04 PM.

  30. - Top - End - #360
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Griffon

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

    Nice ideas deuterio, thanks for adding them

    Personally I'm not fond of Rokkit Launchers in Boyz mobs. Yes, you can take up to 3.... but that's 30 points for the weapons alone, and for 1 hit (statistically) I don't think that's good value. Were they AP2 or Melta or something, then maybe.

    And, I didn't include the Biker Boss thing because it's not really unique to Orks. I do the same thing, sometimes, with my Autarch and I've definitely done it with Pedro Kantor. Maybe we'll include that when we finish the Guide to Codices and get around to the "6th Edition Guide to Tricks and Tactics"
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