Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

[Grim Portent]

Oh neat, this really motivates me to post about my experiences in this game, happy to be of no assistance whatsoever.

That said, splinter cannons are neat dakka.

Your response didn't actually answer my original question, it answered a question I didn't ask.

[Cheesegear]

Because it seems like i will be up against a purifier list soon, and i am a little in doubt about what i should blow up first.

Actually, Purifiers are pretty much perfect for dealing with Eldar. They come with a ton of AP4, and, in Assault, they'll go before you do. I'm going to say you're in for a tough one. Are they GKs on foot? In Land Raiders? If you ever try and move in for a Bladestorm, they'll punish you for it.

Which unit has the most Psycannons in it? Shoot that unit. A Vindicare will be a pain to deal with, but, when all is said and done, it's only one model. Shoot it with Rangers or something, your main firepower should be dealing with Purifiers - if you let them keep shooting you, they will do that.

Also, what psychic dicipline would people recomend on general against Grey Knights, Divination yet again?

Always. The full BS Overwatch isn't your priority though. You're looking to grab the 4++ to survive Psycannon fire, or Ignores Cover to smash out a Bladestorm. If you get Ignores Cover, you might as well just take off the Vindicare in the first turn.

Telepathy isn't going to work because GKs have Aegis.

[lord_khaine]

Actually, Purifiers are pretty much perfect for dealing with Eldar. They come with a ton of AP4, and, in Assault, they'll go before you do. I'm going to say you're in for a tough one. Are they GKs on foot? In Land Raiders? If you ever try and move in for a Bladestorm, they'll punish you for it.

It certainly looks like it will be a tough one, not the least because i tried a slightly silly list this time, wanting to test my Karandras+Wraithguard combo before what i though would be the final round.

But they are mounted in 2 Rhinoes and a Razorback, the rest of his army is a Dreadknight, Dreadnought and that assasin.

But yeah.. i could see that almost anything getting within 24 would be shredded.
Karandras should be able to claw down anything he gets into melee with, but Crowe has that rather annoying power to take him down with him, and thats a bit annoying.

Which unit has the most Psycannons in it? Shoot that unit. A Vindicare will be a pain to deal with, but, when all is said and done, it's only one model. Shoot it with Rangers or something, your main firepower should be dealing with Purifiers - if you let them keep shooting you, they will do that.

But thanks for the advice, i guess anything with a psycannon will get a top spot on the target priority list.

Always. The full BS Overwatch isn't your priority though. You're looking to grab the 4++ to survive Psycannon fire, or Ignores Cover to smash out a Bladestorm. If you get Ignores Cover, you might as well just take off the Vindicare in the first turn.

Ok thanks, i considered using the serpent shields for squashing that guy, but though removing his transport options might be a better choice, so i dont suddenly have a unit with 4 flamers in my deployment zone.

[gooddragon1]

If you could treat vehicles as infantry when beneficial would that be enough to win games outright?

Idea came to me when I thought to use an editor to mod dawn of war 2 to allow dreadnoughts to garrison buildings.

[Jotunheim]

Well then! It looks like I am getting pulled back into the hobby, and reforming my Word Bearers army. I do have a question though. Ideally I'd like to field some daemons along with my Speehs mehreens, but I'm not quite sure which ones would work best in concert with them. Visually I like Daemonettes, but I'd also like to not lose too badly :p

[Grim Portent]

Well then! It looks like I am getting pulled back into the hobby, and reforming my Word Bearers army. I do have a question though. Ideally I'd like to field some daemons along with my Speehs mehreens, but I'm not quite sure which ones would work best in concert with them. Visually I like Daemonettes, but I'd also like to not lose too badly :p

Well if you're making unmarked marines then the Daemons all do something that you do but slightly better, Horrors are better for dakka, Daemonettes are faster, Bloodletters are stronger and Plaguebearer's are harder to kill (barely, when not in cover) so in order to make a recommendation I'd really need to know how you plan to use the marines themselves so I can guess what might work out well with them.

That said Plaguebearers make for good objective holders once they've gone to ground, Screamers of Tzeentch make a good unit for killing tanks, Furies are nicely expendable jumpers. If you go for a gunline based army then some Beasts of Nurgle would make a good deterrent for any assault units that get close. Soul Grinders are a decent source of firepower if find yourself short of heavy support choices in the marines side, and a Daemon Prince is always great to have.

I think Daemonettes are one of the better troop choices for Daemons though, they're not great, but none of the Daemons troops are really. They might work well as a distraction unit or to be a defense against deepstriking 2+ saves, but it depends on what you want the marines to be doing.

[Jormengand]

If you could treat vehicles as infantry when beneficial would that be enough to win games outright?

Vindicators in drop pods.

That is all.

[Forrestfire]

That's terrifying.

[Volthawk]

Hell, couldn't you transport tanks in tanks? Not for any real reason, mind, but just because.

I suppose part of it would be what special rules infantry-vehicles have.

[LeSwordfish]

Surely either:
A) Those tanks now count as infantry, so can't transport anything.
or B) You can nest tanks inside tanks indefinitely.

[Volthawk]

Surely either:
A) Those tanks now count as infantry, so can't transport anything.
or B) You can nest tanks inside tanks indefinitely.

I'm assuming the 'when beneficial' part means I can count the outer tank as a vehicle (transport) while the inner tanks would be infantry.

[bluntpencil]

There are some instances already, sort of.

The prime examples seem to be Dreadnoughts in Drop Pods and Dreadnoughts in Stormravens.

[Tychris1]

Literal eggs in a basket theory:

"My Stormraven transports 5 Drop Pods with 10 man squads in each of them. Alpha Team, GO GO GO GO!"

[Jormengand]

Literal eggs in a basket theory:

"My Stormraven transports 5 Drop Pods with 10 man squads in each of them. Alpha Team, GO GO GO GO!"

Unfortunately, the DP has the start in deep strike. In fact, the vindicator trick doesn't work because vindies can't take DPs as DTs, so they can't start in them. But hey, no reason you can't drop 10 chimaerae out of a valkyrie!

Or you could have a land raider, in a rhino, in a rhino, in a rhino, in a rhino...

The land raider fires out of the first rhino, which it can do because it can fire out of the second rhino...

AKA: You are not killing these terminators.

For the grand finale, a Battlewagon hides in a Battlewagon in a Battlewagon, and there are, say, meganobz inside. Triple-disembark, use the open-topped nature of the Battlewagons to charge out, ladies and gentlemen we have a first-turn charge.

[ZeltArruin]

This feels relevant to the conversation, as the vehicle stacking would reach really really stupid levels.

hulls.

[Penguinizer]

A Thunderhawk Transporter can actually carry a Land Raider with Terminators in it. That just kind of feels like a waste of a Thunderhawk though.

[Renegade Paladin]

A Thunderhawk Transporter can actually carry a Land Raider with Terminators in it. That just kind of feels like a waste of a Thunderhawk though.

It's a fluff unit, like most of the things Forge World sells that don't have really big guns. They also make Valkyries with hooks to carry Sentinels or Tauros vehicles, but unless you're playing a really big game of Apocalypse on a suitably large table or with some special rules, they really don't have applicable value. (Being able to pick up that Land Raider full of Terminators after they kill their objective and carry it 20 feet away or so in a turn instead of driving for twenty turns might come in handy, but for a 6'x4' table that will just never have value.)

[Cheesegear]

A Thunderhawk Transporter can actually carry a Land Raider with Terminators in it. That just kind of feels like a waste of a Thunderhawk though.

That's actually the theory behind Blood Angels having Deep Striking Land Raiders.

[bluntpencil]

That's actually the theory behind Blood Angels having Deep Striking Land Raiders.

I was thinking oversized grav chutes. Maybe dropped from a high altitude Thunderhawk.

[Grim Portent]

I was thinking oversized grav chutes. Maybe dropped from a high altitude Thunderhawk.

I always thought they drifted down gently on a current of Ward's hot air.

[Jotunheim]

Alrighty. I think I figured out a painting process that I like for my word bearers. Let the batch painting commence! So far, I'm still a little fuzzy on exactly what my army list will look like for this particular host of word bearers, but some of the things I've decided on (Unless someone in in, say, a thread on the internets who knows more'n I do tells me they are a horrible idea).

Host of the Broken Throne:
Warlord HQ: Chaos Lord in Terminator armor (I know this should be a dark apostle, but the rules for dark apostles in 6th edition do not lend themselves well to not getting your arse handed to you)
I'm looking to get this model for some oathpaper and impurity seal conversion to act as the lord of my merry band of religious murderers:


Secondary HQ: Dark Apostle or Sorcerer (Again, dark apostle fits the fluff, but dem rules man)


Allies HQ: Possibly a herald of Slaanesh (Fits with the Daemonettes)

X amount of Terminators

X amount of Chaos Space Marines

X amount of Daemonettes

One or two Rhinos

Something shooty. Possibly Obliterators or Havocs.

Thoughts? Advice? I'm pretty new at being back in the hobby, so some of these are based mainly on what I think would be cool :p

[Volthawk]

Well, for one thing you can't have a Herald in an allied detachment. They're just for primaries.

[Jotunheim]

Well darn. I need to have an allied hq to be able to field daemonettes though, don't I? And if so, which are my options?

[Volthawk]

Well darn. I need to have an allied hq to be able to field daemonettes though, don't I? And if so, which are my options?

For daemon allies, it's either a greater daemon or daemon prince.

[Drasius]

Well, for one thing you can't have a Herald in an allied detachment. They're just for primaries.

Yes you can, you just can't have more than 1 herald per HQ slot in an allied detatchment. Can have up to 4 heralds in 1 HQ slot if daemons are primary, but only 1 per otherwise.

[Jotunheim]

For daemon allies, it's either a greater daemon or daemon prince.

Really? Damn, if that's true, that's a real point sink.

[Volthawk]

Yes you can, you just can't have more than 1 herald per HQ slot in an allied detatchment. Can have up to 4 heralds in 1 HQ slot if daemons are primary, but only 1 per otherwise.

Really? Huh, been misreading that since the book came out, then.

[Jotunheim]

I mean, for big games there might be something to fielding a daemon prince to wreak some havoc, but for 1000 point and down games, it'd be hard to manage. What is the best choice for chaos sm heavy support these days?

[unbeliever536]

Hey all, I'm pretty new to 40k (or at least, not particularly adept at building lists), and I'll be participating in an escalation league in about two weeks, using a Tau force. It's primarily meant for new(ish) players like myself, so my list doesn't need to be super-optimized or anything, but I would like to make sure I won't automatically get blown off the table by anyone who knows what they're doing.

In the first round, the FOC is as follows (as the tournament is pretty informal, they won't mind if I go slightly over the point cap until the last round):
1 HQ
2-4 Troops
0-1 Fast Attack, Heavy Support, Elites
Allied Detatchment (I am currently lobbying that the allied FOC be limitted at first, and it probably will be, but it technically isn't yet...)
Fortification

I'm not allowed a single model over 250 points (not really an issue...), and forgeworld is discouraged except to add (anti-)air to armies that don't have it.

We are registering our main faction before the tournament, so I can expect to face the following, plus at least one other army of an unknown faction:
-Codex Marines
-Nids
-CSM
-Eldar
-Orks

Jump troops have been houseruled to be able to assault hovering fliers.

My current list:

Spoiler

Show

HQ
Darkstrider (100 pts)

Troops

Fire Warrior Team (108 pts):
Fire Warrior x12, Pulse Rifles

Fire Warrior Team (108 pts):
Fire Warrior x12, Pulse Rifles

Kroot Carnivore Squad (91 pts):
Kroot x13 with sniper rounds

Elites

XV104 Riptide (260 pts):
-Riptide Shas'vre with ion accelerator, twin-linked fusion blaster, early warning override, velocity tracker
-Shielded Missiel Drone x2

Fast Attack

Pathfinder Team (140 pts):
-Pathfinder with ion rifle x3
-Pathfinder x7

Heavy Support

Hammerhead Gunship (191 pts):
Hammerhead gunship with Longstrike, submunitions, smart missile system, disruption pod, blacksun filter

Total: 998 points

As this is a fairly low-op environment and Darkstrider appeals to me, I'd rather get help making him work than get help replacing him. Otherwise, proxies are an option (tournament for new people and all), so I probably can run almost anything, though I would prefer not to have to proxy anything to dissimilar to a tiny-huge D&D figure, or easily constructed out of cardboard (since that's what I have available to proxy with).

[Cheesegear]

Day 1 of the tournament was...Successful.
Now in six hours I get to wake up for Day 2.

A Fortress of Redemption is OP. That is all.