Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."

[Renegade Paladin]

Tournaments around here have basically stopped happening; hasn't been one in months. One of the local shop's co-owners will openly say that he's felt a lot better about his 40k playing since he realized that it isn't competitive and is basically a beer and pretzels game.

[Timberwolf]

I've heard a few similar things along the lines of "how many 40k codexes havent been upgraded to 6th ed now ?" The person I was discussing it with and I counted up and came up with. 8. Nids are next, that is widely accepted. Guard are also strongly rumoured to be coming soon which leaves Orks, Dark Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Space Wolves and Grey knightdunless theres one I've missed. With that in mind, if they ignore Fantasy and release a codex a month, thats everyone updated by August ready for whatever theyre doing. If they stick to a "less likely to alienate the Fantasy players" schedule then Christmas 2014 looks good. Once everyones updated then we reckoned that would be a good chance to either issue the fixes they want to or, thinking outside the box, switch to the Warmachine model, issue 7th ed and update everyone all at the same time when its time for 8th edition. We were just idly speculating but it seemed pertinent.

[Grim Portent]

Out of curiosity, what armies do each of you play? Not just the ones you play regularly but the ones you've got that you use once or twice a year.

I play chaos marines most games, daemons sometimes and very rarely grey knights. Originally played tyranids.

[Cheesegear]

Out of curiosity, what armies do each of you play? Not just the ones you play regularly but the ones you've got that you use once or twice a year.

1750 or more (i.e; tournament armies)
Space Marines for my tournament army.
Imperial Guard for smashing 'casuals' when I feel so inclined.
and...
Dark Eldar (haven't seen play since Tau came out, though)
Daemons (haven't seen play since everyone jumped on the bandwagon)

1500
Chaos Space Marines
Tau
Eldar

And I have 1250 or less for every other army - even Sisters! - that I've bought for store competitions and Escalation Leagues and Campaigns that I never really took seriously, but used it as an oppurtunity to try out an army that isn't one of the above tournament level armies.

(Congrats ****head, you brought ScreamerStar to a hobby event. I hope someone punches you in the head.)

[Wraith]

Out of curiosity, what armies do each of you play? Not just the ones you play regularly but the ones you've got that you use once or twice a year.

I virtually always play 1750-2000 points games, and just Codex-hop depending on my mood. So, my 5,000 points of Space Marines can be played reasonably well as Iron Hands (for which I originally started collecting them), Crimson Fists, Black Templars (4th Ed. Codex compatible), Blood Angels and Space Wolves.

I also have an extensive collection of Eldar, though they might soon be seeing the inside of eBay - I enjoyed painting them, and they have been loyal to me, but I their new Codex requires me to learn how to play in a way that I don't really enjoy. I've used them.... what, twice since the new book was released?

And when I'm in the mood, I break out Grey Knights, which I originally collected in the days of Codex: Daemonhunters, and seriously lucked-out when their new book was announced a couple of months later. One day, I might even finish painting them.

And very soon, I will be picking up Tyranids, if their new Codex is even slightly better than their old one. I've wanted 'Nids for a long time, but could never muster the enthusiasm while they were a dull mono-build.

[Renegade Paladin]

I have roughly 6,000 points of Imperial Guard, and some stray Space Marine Terminators that I've yet to do anything with. I plan to pick up a Space Marine strikeforce sometime in the next year to use as an allied detachment and smaller secondary army, though.

[Eldan]

I don't play 40k that often, I'm a Warhammer Fantasy man.

That said, about 2000 points of Eldar (not counting a few hundred points of old tin models I never play these days) and I'm a player in my shop's year-long build campaign that should end with me having about 2500 points of painted Nids.

Apart from that, 4500-5000 points of Skaven (Skryre clan), some 1500 points of vampire counts (ghoul kings) and a few single monsters that I just liked to own and paint. (An Arachnarok spider, an Elder Elemental of Beasts, a Chimaera, a few more and a few Tyranids.)

[lord_khaine]

I also have an extensive collection of Eldar, though they might soon be seeing the inside of eBay - I enjoyed painting them, and they have been loyal to me, but I their new Codex requires me to learn how to play in a way that I don't really enjoy. I've used them.... what, twice since the new book was released?

Ahh what?
I did notice that the new codex has forced me to retire all my banshee's and Harlequins, but besides that it most feels like itself, just faster and stronger.

[Timberwolf]

Out of curiosity, what armies do each of you play? Not just the ones you play regularly but the ones you've got that you use once or twice a year.

Space Wolves mainly, got maybe 7ks worth and Blood Angels, an unknown amount. I break out the codex marines too, but not too many of them, as an allied detachment.

[Darwin]

Anything from 1000 to 2000 points Chaos Space Marines. Recently purchased a Chaos Land Raider and am very disappointed in watching it blow up on turn 1/2 every single game

[Cheesegear]

Anything from 1000 to 2000 points Chaos Space Marines. Recently purchased a Chaos Land Raider and am very disappointed in watching it blow up on turn 1/2 every single game

Land Raiders are fantastic in a meta full of Daemons, Eldar and Tau.

In a Marine-dominant one though, not so much.

[Penguinizer]

Land Raiders are fantastic in a meta full of Daemons, Eldar and Tau.

In a Marine-dominant one though, not so much.

I'm curious, what should I put in my raiders when my only real choices are 3-man terminator squads or plaguemarines?

Also, for those that know about The Horus Heresy, should I give my Praetor a thunderhammer or paragon blade?

[Darwin]

I'm curious, what should I put in my raiders when my only real choices are 3-man terminator squads or plaguemarines?

Also, for those that know about The Horus Heresy, should I give my Praetor a thunderhammer or paragon blade?

As far as I know Terminator Armor only gives bulky, so you should be able to fit in at least 5 of them, though it won't do you much good...

I've tried running melee oriented Noise Marines in there, and I think if you can protect the tank well enough you might be able to make chosen semi-playable.

Also, my meta is basically ALL marines, especially Space Wolves. Incidentally, any advice on beating SW as Chaos Marines? Preferably without the use of Plague Marines

[Penguinizer]

As far as I know Terminator Armor only gives bulky, so you should be able to fit in at least 5 of them, though it won't do you much good...

I've tried running melee oriented Noise Marines in there, and I think if you can protect the tank well enough you might be able to make chosen semi-playable.

It's mainly since I only have 6 terminators left over from when Termicide squads were a thing.

[Darwin]

It's mainly since I only have 6 terminators left over from when Termicide squads were a thing.

I still do Termicide whenever I feel like playing my termies. I haven't found much use for them outside of that.

[Jormengand]

Also, my meta is basically ALL marines, especially Space Wolves. Incidentally, any advice on beating SW as Chaos Marines?

If your meta is basically all marines, then plasma weapons should be your go-to. Hell, you might even actually want to use Thousand Sons. Their vehicles die to things that vehicles die to, and their flyers die to things that fliers die to (though if they're wolves, they're less likely to have them because they have to break out DftS or SM/BA allies). If you know almost certainly that you'll be against mehrens, plasma everywhere, and if you think they're gonna throw vehicles at you, lascannons everywhere.

[Cheesegear]

I'm curious, what should I put in my raiders when my only real choices are 3-man terminator squads or plaguemarines?

Unless you're maxing out your Heavy slots, you don't really need to put anything in them. The only thing you need to put in Land Raiders are Assaulty-squads or Troops units that aren't integral to your firing line that you don't need to be shooting every turn.

A particularly terrifying unit is Abaddon in a unit of Slaanesh Marines with FNP. Abaddon with FNP is no joke.

Also, for those that know about The Horus Heresy, should I give my Praetor a thunderhammer or paragon blade?

On what world do you live in where you aren't taking the Paragon Blade? S5, AP2, at-Initiative with a chance for Instant Death? Yes please!

You know what having a Thunder Hammer gets you? Insta-killed by the other guy who strikes at his full Initiative with a Paragon Blade.

Also, my meta is basically ALL marines, especially Space Wolves. Incidentally, any advice on beating SW as Chaos Marines? Preferably without the use of Plague Marines

Beating Space Wolves is easy. They have no air defence save for the bought Quad-Guns which you should aim for in the first turn (they're only T7...). Then you flood the board with Heldrakes. That's game.

Rune Priests throwing out Jaws is kind of scary, but, if you aren't interested in Plague Marines, you pick up Slaanesh Marines with I5 and basically ignore it.

Then pick up Forgefiends. Forgefiends are kind of good. But you'll need two or three of them.

If you can't pick up multiple Heldrakes, see if you can find a way to convert or kitbash 10+ Spawn and just run up the board with dual-Lords.

If you can pick up Eternal Warrior from Black Legion, that works too.

Your only big worry is Thunderwolf Cavalry. You know your meta better than I do. Bring Vindicators.

If your meta is basically all marines, then plasma weapons should be your go-to. Hell, you might even actually want to use Thousand Sons.

Really though, only if you plan on allying in some Daemons for access to Divination and Ignores Cover.

[Penguinizer]

On what world do you live in where you aren't taking the Paragon Blade? S5, AP2, at-Initiative with a chance for Instant Death? Yes please!

You know what having a Thunder Hammer gets you? Insta-killed by the other guy who strikes at his full Initiative with a Paragon Blade.

It was mainly since I originally planned on it being a Siege-breaker Consul, but realized that with phosphex medusas my long-range anti-vehicle weaponry was lacking. So I went back and decided that I'd run a Praetor instead.

[Darwin]

I'm definitely going to try out Abby with Noise Marines in my Land Raider next game, sounds pretty brutal. Also, spawns are fantastically fun units to play. Why must they be so goddamn expensive? (cash-wise) :( I only managed to scrounge up 5 of them from another player who was selling out of his massive collection. Those with a Nurgle Bike Lord is probaly my favorite unit in the codex

[Grim Portent]

I'm definitely going to try out Abby with Noise Marines in my Land Raider next game, sounds pretty brutal. Also, spawns are fantastically fun units to play. Why must they be so goddamn expensive? (cash-wise) :( I only managed to scrounge up 5 of them from another player who was selling out of his massive collection. Those with a Nurgle Bike Lord is probaly my favorite unit in the codex

One of the good things about spawn is that just about any big model can be converted into them with a bit of work and spare bits. Tyranid Warrior/Raveners, Ogre Kingdoms basic Ogres, and the actual Chaos Spawn kit are the ones I'd use. Back when I first started chaos I still had a lot of nid parts lying around and found that some are similar sizes to spawn limbs.

[Penguinizer]

One of the good things about spawn is that just about any big model can be converted into them with a bit of work and spare bits. Tyranid Warrior/Raveners, Ogre Kingdoms basic Ogres, and the actual Chaos Spawn kit are the ones I'd use. Back when I first started chaos I still had a lot of nid parts lying around and found that some are similar sizes to spawn limbs.

I have a spawn that is literally constructed out of random parts I grabbed from the bitsbox at my LGS. A Stegadon's head, three giant feet, a high elf dragon tail and various detail bits. All on a papier mache torso with greenstuff for details.

[Wraith]

I did notice that the new codex has forced me to retire all my banshee's and Harlequins, but besides that it most feels like itself, just faster and stronger.

It's hard to put a finger on, and it's certainly nothing at all to do with how GOOD the army is. Just... I dunno. Lots of little things.

Bare in mind that I started collecting them in 2nd Edition and already had to make some thematic and 'crunch' changes in 3rd, 4th and 5th editions.

Such as, the Eldar were always dependent on how well you used your Farseer. To me, the army is now even more so - utterly reliant on psychic powers, no matter what else you bring - and I don't like that. I also don't like how redundant so many of their powers are, it's very nearly a mono-build (Death Frenzy? Really? Reroll! )

I also never owned any Jetbikes or Wave Serpents, which seem to be where it's at, and I don't particularly want to buy any, either. The bulk of my army is now stuff that works fine, but is stuff that the meta doesn't particularly care for - Rangers, Guardians rather than Dire Avengers, that sort of thing.

In short, I'm a crotchety old man and I remember everything with rose-tinted spectacles, while being too miserly to expand upon the already large collection of tin soldiers that I rarely use anyway, and I could use the funds to go towards my next project

[Eldan]

I know your pain. My poor Harlequins and Falcons.

[lord_khaine]

Bare in mind that I started collecting them in 2nd Edition and already had to make some thematic and 'crunch' changes in 3rd, 4th and 5th editions.

Hey, when do you think i started my Eldar army?
Indeed, back when you gave Wraithlords Crystaline web, and you could leave it to the Exarches to do most of the heavy lifting :P

Such as, the Eldar were always dependent on how well you used your Farseer. To me, the army is now even more so - utterly reliant on psychic powers, no matter what else you bring - and I don't like that. I also don't like how redundant so many of their powers are, it's very nearly a mono-build (Death Frenzy? Really? Reroll! )

Really? to me it were mostly reliant on it in the 2 previous codexes, where you could be certain about what powers you got.
Now they are so unreliable, that my farseer have not really down anything worth mentioning in the last 2 battles he were in (won them anyway).

I also never owned any Jetbikes or Wave Serpents, which seem to be where it's at, and I don't particularly want to buy any, either. The bulk of my army is now stuff that works fine, but is stuff that the meta doesn't particularly care for - Rangers, Guardians rather than Dire Avengers, that sort of thing.

And.. at least from my experience.. all you need then is a couple of Wave serpents, and you are back in the game, jetbikes are for new kids and people who want to win anyway :P

[Wraith]

Really? to me it were mostly reliant on it in the 2 previous codexes, where you could be certain about what powers you got.
Now they are so unreliable, that my farseer have not really down anything worth mentioning in the last 2 battles he were in (won them anyway).

I dunno.... All the powers that you really need - Conceal, Guide and such - are Primaris anyway. You don't even need to roll, if you're feeling lazy.

More to the point, you virtually have to take at least one Farseer, if not two or one and Eldrad. If you remember 2nd Ed, you remember when the Avatar was really, really scary. But now.... you just wouldn't.

Well, too late for it now anyway - just spent the last three hours getting it on eBay, while it's still free listings week.

It's actually quite surprising how easily 3000 points can fit into little plastic bags. Surprising, and slightly depressing - some of the best painted stuff I ever did in there.

Having said that, I'm also surprised that so much managed to move house with me intact!

....Codex Tyranids sure as Hell better be worth it, now.....

[Closet_Skeleton]

I managed to beat Sisters of Battle with my 'whatever models I have around Chaos army', 1500 points.

5 Chaos Terminators with no marks and a Chaos Lord with terminator armour and nothing else vs Sisters Command squad with Cannones, Inquisitor and 2 priests.

2 terminators killed by a standard bearer with no power weapon when I roll double ones, one terminator champion killed after three turns in a challenge with a priest. No other casualties. Overloaded customised Sisters Command Squads fail to impress.

On the other hand, my chosen loaded with AP2 guns didn't come close to making their points back either and failed the only break test of the game.

[lord_khaine]

I know your pain. My poor Harlequins and Falcons.

My poor Harlequins as well..

The unit i spend the most time on painting ever.. obsolete..

I dunno.... All the powers that you really need - Conceal, Guide and such - are Primaris anyway. You don't even need to roll, if you're feeling lazy.

Well.. Conceal is only found on warlocks or Spiritseers, and i do think Guide lost a lot of its value after every Eldar got BS 4. Its certainly not something i consider a must have any longer.

More to the point, you virtually have to take at least one Farseer, if not two or one and Eldrad. If you remember 2nd Ed, you remember when the Avatar was really, really scary. But now.... you just wouldn't.

And.. if you are not running something with Jetbikes.. then i think a Phoenix lord and a spirit seer will do pretty well instead, i dont feel like farseers are that nececary any longer.

But.. yes.. that was back in the days where Weapon skill were actually more important than number of attacks :P

Well, too late for it now anyway - just spent the last three hours getting it on eBay, while it's still free listings week.

Dam.. to bad you dont have any of the good stuff :P

[Eldan]

New Tyranids are on the site under pre-orders. Seems a lot of the rumours were right.

Not liking the Haruspex model much, but I was looking for some giant melee beast, since I have an arachnarok spider that I have converted into a tyranid monstrosity (featuring 16 limbs, 8 legs, 2 crushing claws and six blades) that might fit as one.

[Grim Portent]

I'm rather fond of the haruspex, think it would look better in green or red but it's got a good gribbly monster feel to it, I just hope it has decent stats to go with it.

EDIT: Upon examining the prices of the models I anticipate much complaining about the prices of tryant/hive guard and the flyer kit from the gamers I know.

[Cheesegear]

EDIT: Upon examining the prices of the models I anticipate much complaining about the prices of tryant/hive guard and the flyer kit from the gamers I know.

The frustrating thing about the price is because of the 'Hybrid Kit' bollocks that GW have churned out. Only the truest of the true OCD people ever need to magnetise their stuff, because there really, only ever is one good option, and possibly a second option 'to cost less points if playing in a low-point game'.

Because of the Hybrid Kit, GW can charge you 50% more for the kit because LOOK AT ALL THE PARTS YOU GET! OMG!

...The problem started with Grey Knight Strike Knights. Really GW? $55 AUD, for five 25mm bases? Try $41. Like the Imperial Guard Command box. Oh, wait, PAGKs have SO MANY PARTS!


On that note, Termagants have gotten cheaper. Even if their up front cost is more expensive.