Relationship Woes and Advice 25: Now with extra Valentine

[Eldariel]

To be fair, he didn't really say that. He only hinted that he, as an expert on the topic, didn't like it, or something like this. It's just my interpretation. Since he told me that he doesn't like feminism, I think that interpretation is correct, since it's the only other accusation I have heard raised against Fifty Shades of Grey. (Well, apart from the fact that it's badly written)

I wouldn't call him sleazy, although he did talk about sex a lot. I rather got the impression that he's the kind of person who doesn't really think before talking and has no sense whatsoever of what is appropriate. (He's roughly my age and I did ask him out, so it didn't seem so very inappropriate. To me. But I know nothing about manners anyway.)

All in all, it was pretty funny. I don't think I have ever met (or at least gone one a date with) a person who had less in common with me than that guy. Unless all men are secretly like this and just hide it in order to impress me. That's what I'm worried about.

It sounds to me like he was being at least somewhat facetious; otherwise I cannot imagine how saying anything to that effect could possibly be a good idea. As such, my first theory would be that he was trying to crack a joke that slipped into the easy innuendo territory as it so often does. But no, I think it's safe to say that regardless of what you add as "like that", "all men" do not fit the criterion. 3 milliard is a big number and all that.

Of course, women are different too; maybe the people he's been around before happened to appreciate that type of wit or behavior, or maybe that's his perception there-of. The message can get mucked at so many points in transit that it's hard to say what he even thinks of his own behavior, if anything at all.

That's not strange. I operate in much the same way as Eldariel. Not that I want people to always be contrary (I have a friend like that, and it's exhausting). But if you meet someone who shares most of your core values, but disagrees on application or details, and who notices different things, and who can challenge (and thus help you change or strengthen) your opinions and beliefs... in my opinion, you've struck friend gold.

Though yeah, especially when it comes to polarizing issues (like feminism), it's nice to have that one friend where you can just lean back and go "UGH, Fifty Shades of Grey!", and they'll completely know what you mean. Sometimes you do need a break.

The best case scenario is, I find, if the other party can engage in a discussion but also knows/broadcasts when it's not the time for that and you just want to relax a bit. Having both present in the same person is, of course, the ideal. But I certainly get frustrated in groups where all we ever do is agree on everything and conflict is somehow seen as undesirable. Yeah, conflict takes energy but that's the way you learn stuff, provided you keep an open mind. But after a week of 16-hour days of various tests and projects, I do rather feel the need to relax a bit, enjoy meaningless smalltalk with a drink and hopefully a dance or two (partner dancing is the best stress relief ever).

Feminism is, incidentally, a topic I wouldn't touch with a 10' pole unless I know the person I'm talking with is actually willing to discuss; I've lost one friend over the course of my life already because of a related misunderstanding that we never got to clear up. It doesn't of course help that I consider "The state of affairs is terrible"-types of discussions dull and unproductive; if talking about such a topic, I would much rather just establish a common baseline briefly and discuss the root causes for any given state of affairs and what should change and indeed, what I could accomplish in that regard with my own efforts rather than waste the whole time talking about the baseline.

[Themrys]

It sounds to me like he was being at least somewhat facetious; otherwise I cannot imagine how saying anything to that effect could possibly be a good idea. As such, my first theory would be that he was trying to crack a joke that slipped into the easy innuendo territory as it so often does. But no, I think it's safe to say that regardless of what you add as "like that", "all men" do not fit the criterion. 3 milliard is a big number and all that.

Of course, women are different too; maybe the people he's been around before happened to appreciate that type of wit or behavior, or maybe that's his perception there-of. The message can get mucked at so many points in transit that it's hard to say what he even thinks of his own behavior, if anything at all.

His wit was just fine, it was his opinions I didn't like.

The best case scenario is, I find, if the other party can engage in a discussion but also knows/broadcasts when it's not the time for that and you just want to relax a bit. Having both present in the same person is, of course, the ideal. But I certainly get frustrated in groups where all we ever do is agree on everything and conflict is somehow seen as undesirable. Yeah, conflict takes energy but that's the way you learn stuff, provided you keep an open mind. But after a week of 16-hour days of various tests and projects, I do rather feel the need to relax a bit, enjoy meaningless smalltalk with a drink and hopefully a dance or two (partner dancing is the best stress relief ever).

I prefer to engange in discussions on the internet, where I can leave anytime I want. I just don't have the energy to fight, most of the time, so I prefer the company of people whose opinions differ from mine only on matters that are not very important to me.

[Eldariel]

His wit was just fine, it was his opinions I didn't like.

I was trying to communicate that to me at least based off this account, it didn't come off as entirely clear that he was able to properly communicate his actual view on the topic. Of course, perhaps he did; I rather suggested perhaps there might have been a miscommunication.

I prefer to engange in discussions on the internet, where I can leave anytime I want. I just don't have the energy to fight, most of the time, so I prefer the company of people whose opinions differ from mine only on matters that are not very important to me.

Goodness, I wouldn't want to fight either! I'm not talking about ripping each other to shreds, holding an unmovable opinion I'm smashing against another one; that would be ridiculous and not at all productive! I'm talking about sharing, considering and accepting different view points, considering your own position while being open to adjusting it and in general, developing an understanding. I don't even expect to agree with the people I discuss with after we're done but I do expect to have gained valuable input on a different view point and an understanding of how certain person, and by extension probably many similarly minded people, might think on the topic. In my experience, this leads to both sides gaining wider perspective and a richer understanding of the diversity of views on this topic.

Kind of like we're doing right now, really; clearly our views on this topic differ greatly and I'm developing an understanding of what you are talking about and thus relating my own views on what I was trying to communicate and coming out with an enhanced understanding of a different point of view. Indeed, I can hold this as valuable input that should help me understand them, should I ever develop a friendship with somebody to whom disagreement equals a vehement clash.

[Themrys]

I was trying to communicate that to me at least based off this account, it didn't come off as entirely clear that he was able to properly communicate his actual view on the topic. Of course, perhaps he did; I rather suggested perhaps there might have been a miscommunication.

Of course. There can always be a miscommunication.

Goodness, I wouldn't want to fight either! I'm not talking about ripping each other to shreds, holding an unmovable opinion I'm smashing against another one; that would be ridiculous and not at all productive! I'm talking about sharing, considering and accepting different view points, considering your own position while being open to adjusting it and in general, developing an understanding. I don't even expect to agree with the people I discuss with after we're done but I do expect to have gained valuable input on a different view point and an understanding of how certain person, and by extension probably many similarly minded people, might think on the topic. In my experience, this leads to both sides gaining wider perspective and a richer understanding of the diversity of views on this topic.

Kind of like we're doing right now, really; clearly our views on this topic differ greatly and I'm developing an understanding of what you are talking about and thus relating my own views on what I was trying to communicate and coming out with an enhanced understanding of a different point of view. Indeed, I can hold this as valuable input that should help me understand them, should I ever develop a friendship with somebody to whom disagreement equals a vehement clash.

Well, there are topics where I can change my point of view, and there are topics where I won't. The latter kind of topic I usually only discuss on the internet, so I can walk away when I want to.

And regarding the question whether it is preferable to have friends whose opinions differ from your own, this is a matter of taste, so there is no danger of the discussion becoming a fight. I can easily accept your point of view - it would be nonsensical to want to tell you what you should like in your friends.

[Amaril]

-snip-

Thanks for answering In this particular case, I get the sense it's a mix of 1 and 5, which doesn't sound problematic. Weirdly, I actually am an extroverted person, just shy when meeting new people or in an unfamiliar situation (such as having a random girl flirting with me the first time we meet). Anyway, as long as it's not somehow universally a bad sign, I think it's all good. Thanks again!

[Aedilred]

Goodness, I wouldn't want to fight either! I'm not talking about ripping each other to shreds, holding an unmovable opinion I'm smashing against another one; that would be ridiculous and not at all productive! I'm talking about sharing, considering and accepting different view points, considering your own position while being open to adjusting it and in general, developing an understanding. I don't even expect to agree with the people I discuss with after we're done but I do expect to have gained valuable input on a different view point and an understanding of how certain person, and by extension probably many similarly minded people, might think on the topic. In my experience, this leads to both sides gaining wider perspective and a richer understanding of the diversity of views on this topic.

Kind of like we're doing right now, really; clearly our views on this topic differ greatly and I'm developing an understanding of what you are talking about and thus relating my own views on what I was trying to communicate and coming out with an enhanced understanding of a different point of view. Indeed, I can hold this as valuable input that should help me understand them, should I ever develop a friendship with somebody to whom disagreement equals a vehement clash.

I think it's not only subjectively desirable, but wise in general, to surround yourself with people with whom you have minor disagreements (the proud ruler who won't listen to counsel he doesn't agree with is a pretty deeply entrenched literary trope, after all). It helps you to keep things in perspective, for one thing, and remind you that your gut feeling or general opinion on things is not (necessarily) a universal truth. And often it's only through having our beliefs and opinions challenged and examining them critically that we can come to conclusions about how valid they are and how strongly we feel about them.

Of course, as you say, it is sometimes nice not to have to do that, and for your friends to identify that and not disagree with you when you clearly just want to be agreed with - although it's also important to take that, as far as possible, as situational sympathy rather than permanent validation of that opinion. Some of my closest friends are people with whom, as one of them put it, I basically agree about everything while fundamentally disagreeing on every particular.

Besides which, how many people does anyone know who actually agrees with them about everything? I don't know any, I think. The person who came closest was my ex-girlfriend and even then we had one massive area of disagreement we just sort of silently agreed never to talk about. And I do kind of miss having that sort of relationship with someone, but only I think because it was easy, not because it was actually preferable. So long as your friends/partners are capable of reading the signals that suggest when you are and aren't prepared to make an argument about something (in the rhetorical, not the hostile, sense) you can have effectively the same relationship anyway.

[Coidzor]

To be fair, he didn't really say that. He only hinted that he, as an expert on the topic, didn't like it, or something like this. It's just my interpretation. Since he told me that he doesn't like feminism, I think that interpretation is correct, since it's the only other accusation I have heard raised against Fifty Shades of Grey. (Well, apart from the fact that it's badly written)

I wouldn't call him sleazy, although he did talk about sex a lot. I rather got the impression that he's the kind of person who doesn't really think before talking and has no sense whatsoever of what is appropriate. (He's roughly my age and I did ask him out, so it didn't seem so very inappropriate. To me. But I know nothing about manners anyway.)

All in all, it was pretty funny. I don't think I have ever met (or at least gone one a date with) a person who had less in common with me than that guy. Unless all men are secretly like this and just hide it in order to impress me. That's what I'm worried about.

If he hates the BDSM because it's not hardcore enough instead of because it presents entirely the wrong attitudes towards BDSM, that's a red flag and a little bit sleazy. Creepy. Lack of respect for consenty. Unsavory, even. Throw in hating feminism(and bringing it up out of the blue and not clarifying to the form that just shows they don't actually understand the feminisms) and the picture takes on a decidedly darker cast.

Generally you're supposed to get to the point where you've confirmed that the other party wants to talk about sex first, but it depends on the hows and other details, I suppose.

Well, most of us are not such big fans of Jane Austen that we categorize people and rate their dateability by comparing them to either A. characters from her books or B. pop cultural notions of the characters from her books.

Hey, I've never been on this part of the forums before, but I have a quick question and you folks seem to know what you're talking about. Hope you don't mind

I hear a fair bit about how in relationships (and social situations in general) it's always best to be confident, and that shyness and nervousness usually come across as unappealing and/or creepy. My question is, if one suspects that a prospective romantic interest finds them attractive partly because they act somewhat shy and nervous, should that be taken as a bad sign? I used to think meeting a girl who found my awkwardness cute was the best I could hope for, but these days I've been feeling a lot more self-assured, and now said experience, while still nice, makes me worry a little that I'm not being taken seriously. That, combined with the sentiment I occasionally see about awkward-adorable not being a real thing and confidence being a prerequisite for attractiveness, has me a little uncomfortable. Any advice?

As long as you practice safe dating practices, it seems like you wouldn't lose anything by giving them a shot by going on a couple of dates with them if they're asking. Should clear things up by interacting with them in such contexts. And if you're not actually interested in them at all, well...

[Verte]

To be fair, he didn't really say that. He only hinted that he, as an expert on the topic, didn't like it, or something like this. It's just my interpretation. Since he told me that he doesn't like feminism, I think that interpretation is correct, since it's the only other accusation I have heard raised against Fifty Shades of Grey. (Well, apart from the fact that it's badly written)

I wouldn't call him sleazy, although he did talk about sex a lot. I rather got the impression that he's the kind of person who doesn't really think before talking and has no sense whatsoever of what is appropriate. (He's roughly my age and I did ask him out, so it didn't seem so very inappropriate. To me. But I know nothing about manners anyway.)

All in all, it was pretty funny. I don't think I have ever met (or at least gone one a date with) a person who had less in common with me than that guy. Unless all men are secretly like this and just hide it in order to impress me. That's what I'm worried about.

I don't know - that sounds really uncomfortable to me, and I would find that pretty sleazy myself. I probably wouldn't want to date a guy who said he didn't like feminism and disliked Fifty Shades of Grey mainly because it isn't hardcore enough. That would be a fairly obvious incompatibility. Also, just as women aren't one big monolithic group with the same opinions and desires, men aren't, either, so I wouldn't assume that all men would secretly be like that.

As far as disagreements and relationships go, some overlap of interests is good, but there are certain big subjects (mostly political or social in nature) where I think there would need to be very strong agreement. Having the same taste in music, books, movies, and so on, is nice, but its also nice to introduce new someone to something you care about (or to learn about something new from someone else), and sometimes its fun to have a disagreement those kinds of things, as long as no one is mean about it.

I also have a question: would it seem odd to get in touch with some acquaintances to catch up, considering I haven't been in touch with them for a few months? Basically, I'd like to broaden my social circle, get to know more people, and have been too busy/distracted to do so until recently and I don't know what the typical time limit is before people are like "Why is this person emailing me out of the blue?" In case it matters, I'm not on Facebook and not looking to join. And yeah, I know this question belies my lack of social finesse as well as my tendency to over think things .

[Aedilred]

I also have a question: would it seem odd to get in touch with some acquaintances to catch up, considering I haven't been in touch with them for a few months?

No. I typically go many months between contacting/seeing almost all my friends these days. So long as you think they'll remember you, go for it.

[Coidzor]

Yeah, seems like you've basically got nothing to lose as long as you comport yourself well. And even if you flub a line it's unlikely to cause anything lasting because most of that would just be with people who'd already moved on anyway.

[Themrys]

I don't know - that sounds really uncomfortable to me, and I would find that pretty sleazy myself. I probably wouldn't want to date a guy who said he didn't like feminism and disliked Fifty Shades of Grey mainly because it isn't hardcore enough. That would be a fairly obvious incompatibility. Also, just as women aren't one big monolithic group with the same opinions and desires, men aren't, either, so I wouldn't assume that all men would secretly be like that.

Well, it is a bit more complicated than that, but since he is taken (i.e. his heart lies elsewhere) anyway, there won't be a second date, even if everything was just a big misunderstanding. So, it doesn't really matter what he actually meant to say.

I didn't feel threatened or sleazed-at or whatever you call it, so I guess my knowledge of human nature is not so bad that I need to stop dating to keep myself safe. Which is a relief.

[Stadge]

Hey there Playground,
I realise that these days I only ever really seem to be online whenever I’ve a problem (hopefully should change soon as will have a working laptop) and I’m sorry for that, but here we are. No real advice asked for here, more I need to write this for msyelf...

Spoiler

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Anyway… story-time. After quite a gap from the whole dating scene I decided to give the whole online dating thing a go and was pleasantly surprised. Put a lot of graft in, but had a number of nice dates and met a lovely lass: C.

Now that was 9 weeks ago, since then we’ve seen each other regularly and honestly had some fun times, we get along well, and I like her, but to me, it doesn’t feel right.
I realsied this over the long Easter weekend when I travelled north to visit my family. I don’t know if it was the thoughtful reflecting on my life that always happens when I travel ‘home’, the fact that in the run up to the 4 days away, I’d seen her for some extent 6 days in a row, or if it was the difference between us that were highlighted by my being around my family
(I don’t know how to explain that, but a more ‘surface’ one of these would be that she doesn’t really eat meat, or bread, or dairy or caffeine, and that’s not a bad thing, but being around my extended family, I twigged how much I love those things and would ideally be with someone who could also appreciate them. It might sound daft, but it’s one of the more ‘surface’ thing, not the whole reason for my thoughts) that brought about this realisation.

But arriving back in London town, I twigged that whilst things were good, they didn’t feel amazing, and my feelings were not as strong as C’s and that maybe part of the reason I hadn’t seen it sooner may have been due to being blinded by the relief I had in finding someone fun to do things with in this big and fairly lonely city.

I saw her only a couple of times last week, and wasn’t at my best due to feeling confused/conflicted as to how things were (also worrying about a lot of other not-related stuff) and to having a very hectic work week (at least 12 hours in the office every day, plus commute and some evening work, which meant a lot less communication time from me). She realized that’s something was up and after a pretty awkward day yesterday we did have something of a stilted chat. Being the coward that I am. I put most of my focus on the other non-related issues and said I would try to pick up and not to worry her again. And honestly, right then I thought that I could, I do like C, and we get along well and honestly/harshly it’s nicer to believe I could, and I headed back to mine fairly optimistic.

But this morning I woke to a message telling me that the distance of the last week had rocked her badly and it would take a while for her to pick up after that.
Perhaps wrongly, that’s made me realise I need to speak to her and end things. I honestly right now, can’t imagine more than a month or two down the line with C, and I realise that might change but I it seems to me that I’ll be conflicted later down the line, and so it seems best to do this now, rather than wait til she’s recovered, then deal a bigger blow.

And realistically, I have to do this this evening. Tomorrow she’s got an evening planned with her flatmate, which is a good thing, and on Wednesday she flies back to Ireland til Sunday, I don’t want to put a downer on her trip, but it seems better than her going and being relatively optimistic in front of her family, also when she gets back her flat mate is away, so there’ll be no support there. Following that I’m in Arizona, and I don’t feel I can leave it so long until I’m back. Therefore my best option seems to be to head over tonight, and hope that her flatmate and family can help her over the next week.

I don’t really know why I’m posting here, as I don’t seem to be asking for advice, but I think I need to talk/write to someone about it to ensure that I go ahead (the one friend I spoke to the other day told me to hang around as ‘a relationship is better than no relationship’ but if concern is making it unpleasant, I disagree with him).

I also realise that my core reason for this is me not feeling right in the relationship, and my ‘epiphany’ this morning of not wanting to hurt her more (whilst true) is probably not as honourable as all that, as it does help me do what I feel I need to do.

As an aside, this is a first for me being on this side of things, so perhaps that’s the reason for my ramble.

Thanks for reading and sorry if I annoyed anyone.

[Aedilred]

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Being the coward that I am. I put most of my focus on the other non-related issues and said I would try to pick up and not to worry her again. And honestly, right then I thought that I could, I do like C, and we get along well and honestly/harshly it’s nicer to believe I could, and I headed back to mine fairly optimistic.

Although it might be a bit late, given the time of evening, I'll respond to this bit specifically: it seems you recognise that in retrospect this was a mistake (and you're probably right) so no matter how bad you may feel about the conversation this evening, at least you're trying to correct that mistake rather than compound it. And if you keep that in mind it might give you the conviction to do what you feel needs to be done, even though it may (probably will) be upsetting. Good luck!

[Amaril]

Um, hey again. So, about the girl I was talking about when I was on here a little while ago...we ended up going on what I thought was a date last night. When we happened to bump into what I'm given to understand were some of her school friends, who asked us whether we were on a date, she confirmed that we were. Later, after we'd both gone home, she texted me that she'd had a great time and we should hang out more. Today, we were texting again and talking about the possibility of meeting up again this weekend, and she told me she already had a boyfriend. When I asked her why she'd said we were on a date last night, she replied "I thought it was just a friend date".

I'd thought she'd been very obviously flirting with me since we met. When I asked her about some of the signals she'd been sending, she claimed that they hadn't been intentional, and that that's just how she is with all her friends. She told me she really was into me and would happily date me if she wasn't already in a relationship. I can understand misinterpreting her signals (although I still don't think it's likely), but I can't get past the fact that she literally said we were on a date while we were there. Is it really possible that she didn't understand the connotations most young people in North America attach to the word "date"? Was I just kidding myself thinking she was into me? I don't really know what I expect anyone to tell me--I'm not really even upset, just incredibly confused, and I feel the need to tell more people about it.

[Jallorn]

Um, hey again. So, about the girl I was talking about when I was on here a little while ago...we ended up going on what I thought was a date last night. When we happened to bump into what I'm given to understand were some of her school friends, who asked us whether we were on a date, she confirmed that we were. Later, after we'd both gone home, she texted me that she'd had a great time and we should hang out more. Today, we were texting again and talking about the possibility of meeting up again this weekend, and she told me she already had a boyfriend. When I asked her why she'd said we were on a date last night, she replied "I thought it was just a friend date".

I'd thought she'd been very obviously flirting with me since we met. When I asked her about some of the signals she'd been sending, she claimed that they hadn't been intentional, and that that's just how she is with all her friends. She told me she really was into me and would happily date me if she wasn't already in a relationship. I can understand misinterpreting her signals (although I still don't think it's likely), but I can't get past the fact that she literally said we were on a date while we were there. Is it really possible that she didn't understand the connotations most young people in North America attach to the word "date"? Was I just kidding myself thinking she was into me? I don't really know what I expect anyone to tell me--I'm not really even upset, just incredibly confused, and I feel the need to tell more people about it.

Well, since she herself said she was into you, I would actually say that you deserve a pat on the back for picking up on the signals she didn't know she was sending. It sounds to me like everything is relatively copacetic, and I would... ok, no I probably wouldn't, but I don't want to tell you what you should do, not in those words... it would be wise to appreciate that you've had proof that your friend trusts you enough to be generally okay with you being into her and vice versa even though you can't currently date. Sounds like a keeper (as a friend at least) whatever happens.

[Amaril]

Well, since she herself said she was into you, I would actually say that you deserve a pat on the back for picking up on the signals she didn't know she was sending. It sounds to me like everything is relatively copacetic, and I would... ok, no I probably wouldn't, but I don't want to tell you what you should do, not in those words... it would be wise to appreciate that you've had proof that your friend trusts you enough to be generally okay with you being into her and vice versa even though you can't currently date. Sounds like a keeper (as a friend at least) whatever happens.

I was a little worried that the whole "I would date you if I could" thing was just her trying to make me feel better, but I guess if it wasn't true, she probably would've come up with some other way to do that.... But I'm still kind of having trouble understanding how she could not realize that the term 'date' isn't normally used between friends in this culture, except maybe as a joke, which I'm pretty sure this wasn't. It makes me think maybe she's not being honest about something--I thought for a while that she might have been cheating on her boyfriend with me and not wanted to admit it, but if that were the case, she wouldn't have told her friends we were on a date...argh, I don't know what's going on here.

[Themrys]

I was a little worried that the whole "I would date you if I could" thing was just her trying to make me feel better, but I guess if it wasn't true, she probably would've come up with some other way to do that.... But I'm still kind of having trouble understanding how she could not realize that the term 'date' isn't normally used between friends in this culture, except maybe as a joke, which I'm pretty sure this wasn't. It makes me think maybe she's not being honest about something--I thought for a while that she might have been cheating on her boyfriend with me and not wanted to admit it, but if that were the case, she wouldn't have told her friends we were on a date...argh, I don't know what's going on here.

I suspect she was indeed cheating on her boyfriend. Although you are right, she wouldn't have admitted it in front of her friends, would she? On the other hand, maybe those friends don't know her boyfriend? Is it a long distance relationship?

How are your feelings for her? If you're in love with her, it makes hardly any difference what's going on - you wouldn't be happy as her just-friend, and you wouldn't be happy as the one she cheats on her boyfriend with, so it'd be better to not see her again.

[Kalmageddon]

and you wouldn't be happy as the one she cheats on her boyfriend with, so it'd be better to not see her again.

I agree, being the lover of an unfaithful person is an ugly business, expecially if you are not a cynical bastard.
On the other hand, some people are cynical bastards, or even just really into that person that they would find a way to justify their behaviour.

So this is more a case of "do what is right" instead of "do what you feel is right", in my opinion.

[Thundercracker]

Um, hey again. So, about the girl I was talking about when I was on here a little while ago...we ended up going on what I thought was a date last night. When we happened to bump into what I'm given to understand were some of her school friends, who asked us whether we were on a date, she confirmed that we were. Later, after we'd both gone home, she texted me that she'd had a great time and we should hang out more. Today, we were texting again and talking about the possibility of meeting up again this weekend, and she told me she already had a boyfriend. When I asked her why she'd said we were on a date last night, she replied "I thought it was just a friend date".

I'd thought she'd been very obviously flirting with me since we met. When I asked her about some of the signals she'd been sending, she claimed that they hadn't been intentional, and that that's just how she is with all her friends. She told me she really was into me and would happily date me if she wasn't already in a relationship. I can understand misinterpreting her signals (although I still don't think it's likely), but I can't get past the fact that she literally said we were on a date while we were there. Is it really possible that she didn't understand the connotations most young people in North America attach to the word "date"? Was I just kidding myself thinking she was into me? I don't really know what I expect anyone to tell me--I'm not really even upset, just incredibly confused, and I feel the need to tell more people about it.

My guess is she and her boyfriend were on the outs while she was hanging out with you. Since then, they've made up and she's decided to stay with him for the time being. Keep her contact info in case her relationship self-destructs, and keep asking out other girls. Don't wait for this one because she sounds wishy washy to me.

[Amaril]

I suspect she was indeed cheating on her boyfriend. Although you are right, she wouldn't have admitted it in front of her friends, would she? On the other hand, maybe those friends don't know her boyfriend? Is it a long distance relationship?

How are your feelings for her? If you're in love with her, it makes hardly any difference what's going on - you wouldn't be happy as her just-friend, and you wouldn't be happy as the one she cheats on her boyfriend with, so it'd be better to not see her again.

I know nothing about her boyfriend except that she apparently has one. Her friends didn't seem to give any indication that they thought something inappropriate about us going out...although, as we were leaving, someone from that group pulled her aside and they seemed to be talking about something important; I didn't listen in, but it might be related.

I can't say I love her, because I don't know her that well yet, but we have a great time hanging out and there's definitely chemistry. I'm fine with being just her friend, but yeah, I don't want to be the guy she cheats with, for her or anyone else.

I agree, being the lover of an unfaithful person is an ugly business, expecially if you are not a cynical bastard.
On the other hand, some people are cynical bastards, or even just really into that person that they would find a way to justify their behaviour.

So this is more a case of "do what is right" instead of "do what you feel is right", in my opinion.

I'm about as far from cynical as you'll find, at least in matters of love. I'm absolutely not going to date her if she's already committed.

My guess is she and her boyfriend were on the outs while she was hanging out with you. Since then, they've made up and she's decided to stay with him for the time being. Keep her contact info in case her relationship self-destructs, and keep asking out other girls. Don't wait for this one because she sounds wishy washy to me.

That's a possibility. I've also had it suggested to me that she might have been in an uncertain situation with some other guy, where she wasn't sure whether they were really a couple or not, and in the time between when we went out and when we next spoke, she'd felt pressured to make that decision and had decided to commit to this other person. Anyway, I'm keeping her number, but I'm not going out of my way to contact her again, and I'm definitely not waiting for her. Unless she later comes forward with some explanation that makes everything clear and shows there's no real problem, I won't be going out with her in the future.

[Philemonite]

So, I have a problem. I wasn't sure if I want to post it here, but I decide to do it. The story has sexual premise(nothing explicit), so read carefully.

Spoiler

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I have this two friends, friend A and friend B. They are together for a few years. They have kind of an opened relationship, where sex with someone else is OK, as long as they are both involved. A few weeks ago friend B said that he found out that friend A cheated on him a few years ago. Friend B is thinking about breaking up. I didn't try to convince him either way, I just tried to ask a few friendly questions to help him decide what he wants. My advice is to communicate what he is feeling, get it out in the open. Friend A refuses to talk about it. He thinks ignoring it is the best way to deal with it. This situation is complicated by the fact that friend A doesn't know I know about it. I don't like lying to friend A. This is further complicated because I think that friend B is starting to develop a crush on me. I am not sure, but I do tend to get under people's skin and it wouldn't be the first time that is happening.
Here is my (main) problem: If I say something to friend B and it turns out I was wrong I will turn out to be self-centered narcissist. If I don't say anything and I am right I will end up as a complete jerk.

First of may is a big deal here, and since I am working then I made arrangements to celebrate the day after. I will be staying with the mentioned friends for two nights, so that adds an extra layer of complication. I am completely lost.

[Xhosant]

Been there for a while. My crush, more like obsession, was in a relationship with a duche.

Had to advice her either way, repeatedly, and all in all not a good year.

Now, it isn't the same, but premise is alike and solution could work.

Make your resolve on the right advice, disregarding your link to the situation, then go on and to hell with the consequences. If it makes you feel better, make a hard copy of your motives and resolutions too.

Will it help interpersonally? No, but it will help you, and that will help them believe you. My 2 cents.

[Philemonite]

Been there for a while. My crush, more like obsession, was in a relationship with a duche.

Had to advice her either way, repeatedly, and all in all not a good year.

Now, it isn't the same, but premise is alike and solution could work.

Make your resolve on the right advice, disregarding your link to the situation, then go on and to hell with the consequences. If it makes you feel better, make a hard copy of your motives and resolutions too.

Will it help interpersonally? No, but it will help you, and that will help them believe you. My 2 cents.

Maybe it's because it's half past one and I am really tired from an "awesome" day I had, but I don't understand you.

[Coidzor]

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Here is my (main) problem: If I say something to friend B and it turns out I was wrong I will turn out to be self-centered narcissist. If I don't say anything and I am right I will end up as a complete jerk.

First of may is a big deal here, and since I am working then I made arrangements to celebrate the day after. I will be staying with the mentioned friends for two nights, so that adds an extra layer of complication. I am completely lost.

Spoiler: Reply Spoilers!

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How? You don't have to say yes just because someone approaches you sexually, and unless they make a move or get creepy or inappropriate about it you don't have to mention it to them or to their partner.

What, you think one of them will try to sneak into bed with you while the other is asleep? Or that your presence may just act as a catalyst

[Philemonite]

Spoiler: Reply Spoilers!

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How? You don't have to say yes just because someone approaches you sexually, and unless they make a move or get creepy or inappropriate about it you don't have to mention it to them or to their partner.

What, you think one of them will try to sneak into bed with you while the other is asleep? Or that your presence may just act as a catalyst

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I didn't mean the sexual part, that's not the problem. The problem is the emotional part. I don't want friend B to do something stupid because of me, assuming that I am right and that he does have a thing for me. I like him, but I have no intention of pursuing a relationship with him, and I don't want him to get the wrong impression. I am probably overreacting, I just don't like the situation.

[Glass Mouse]

So, I have a problem. I wasn't sure if I want to post it here, but I decide to do it. The story has sexual premise(nothing explicit), so read carefully.

Spoiler

Show

I have this two friends, friend A and friend B. They are together for a few years. They have kind of an opened relationship, where sex with someone else is OK, as long as they are both involved. A few weeks ago friend B said that he found out that friend A cheated on him a few years ago. Friend B is thinking about breaking up. I didn't try to convince him either way, I just tried to ask a few friendly questions to help him decide what he wants. My advice is to communicate what he is feeling, get it out in the open. Friend A refuses to talk about it. He thinks ignoring it is the best way to deal with it. This situation is complicated by the fact that friend A doesn't know I know about it. I don't like lying to friend A. This is further complicated because I think that friend B is starting to develop a crush on me. I am not sure, but I do tend to get under people's skin and it wouldn't be the first time that is happening.
Here is my (main) problem: If I say something to friend B and it turns out I was wrong I will turn out to be self-centered narcissist. If I don't say anything and I am right I will end up as a complete jerk.

First of may is a big deal here, and since I am working then I made arrangements to celebrate the day after. I will be staying with the mentioned friends for two nights, so that adds an extra layer of complication. I am completely lost.

Stay out of it.

Really, this is in the category of stuff that couples absolutely need to work out on their own. Asking more questions when asked is a good strategy, but if you pick sides or start stirring up things, you're just asking for drama (especially considering the "possible attraction" thing).

I'm not sure why you feel like you'd be lying to Friend A? Knowing stuff like that is a little awkward, but nowhere near lying-levels.

I'm also not sure what you're considering telling Friend B ("If I say something to friend B and it turns out I was wrong")? You have already talked about it, so what is there to say?

[Philemonite]

Stay out of it.

Really, this is in the category of stuff that couples absolutely need to work out on their own. Asking more questions when asked is a good strategy, but if you pick sides or start stirring up things, you're just asking for drama (especially considering the "possible attraction" thing).

I probably shouldn't have made plans to stay with them, but It's too late to cancel now.

I'm not sure why you feel like you'd be lying to Friend A? Knowing stuff like that is a little awkward, but nowhere near lying-levels.

lying by omission?

I'm also not sure what you're considering telling Friend B ("If I say something to friend B and it turns out I was wrong")? You have already talked about it, so what is there to say?

I meant his (potential) attraction towards me.

[Chen]

lying by omission?

Just knowing something and not sharing it, is not lying. Lying by omission would be someone asking you what you did the day you learned about this issue and you not mentioning that part. It doesn't mean not telling someone something you know, out of the blue. Otherwise we'd be lying by omission all the time. I'd be lying to you right now by not telling you where I am while writing this.

Anyway I'm pretty sure Glass Mouse is correct. Stay out of it. I'd even say if they start asking you advice in this area you tell them you don't really want to take sides. Assuming of course you want to keep them both as friends.

[Philemonite]

The thing is that friend B shared with me something deeply personal that involves friend A, and told me to pretend like I don't know. If I told you a secret about Glass Mouse (just an example, I don't know any such secret) and told you to pretend like you don't know it would make you uncomfortable, right? It might not be a direct lie, but it's still...Well, I can't find the right word, but it's not very honest.

The problem is that a friend B told me something very personal, requesting my assistance. I can't just say I don't want to meddle. Is it possible to help while remaining neutral?

I do want to keep them both as friends. I don't like what friend A did, but that's his problem, not mine, and I am trying not to let that affect my opinion of him. They are both great guys, we are planing to go to a music festival together this summer, and stay at my grandparents house, that is vacant at the moment.

[Chen]

The thing is that friend B shared with me something deeply personal that involves friend A, and told me to pretend like I don't know. If I told you a secret about Glass Mouse (just an example, I don't know any such secret) and told you to pretend like you don't know it would make you uncomfortable, right? It might not be a direct lie, but it's still...Well, I can't find the right word, but it's not very honest.

I've had friends tell me secrets about other friends all the time. I have no problem keeping it to myself. You don't suddenly owe it to your other friend to tell them you know something, especially when it was told in confidence to you. Frankly I'd feel MORE bad about telling A that I know and breaking the confidence with B who told me.

The problem is that a friend B told me something very personal, requesting my assistance. I can't just say I don't want to meddle. Is it possible to help while remaining neutral?

I do want to keep them both as friends. I don't like what friend A did, but that's his problem, not mine, and I am trying not to let that affect my opinion of him. They are both great guys, we are planing to go to a music festival together this summer, and stay at my grandparents house, that is vacant at the moment.

Even if he asked for assistance, its ultimately B's decision. If he wants to break-up that's his choice. It's not for you to decide that for him. You can ask him what HE really wants. He needs to figure that out. Really communication between the two people in the relationship is key here. If they're refusing to talk about it (or A is as you mentioned), then really B needs to make his decision without that conversation.

As an outside observer A is not coming off very well in this situation. The lack of wanting to communicate about it is probably worse to me than the actual cheating (especially since the cheating was a fair while ago), but that's just my personal opinion.