Relationship Woes and Advice 25: Now with extra Valentine

[Serpentine]

Ahhhh, there we go, that makes much more sense, thanks.
Hrm. It's a tricky one. Was it clear the plan was for a romantic date? It may be she was "dating", in the sort of browsing sense. Unfortunately, we can't ever know what interactions with others are going on in another person's life, and things change, unexpected things happen, new people come along and sweep them off their feet. With no commitment, and assuming they weren't deliberately deceiving, there's no blame.
But, of course, that doesn't make the subject feel any better for now, I'm sure. The best advice I have is... Have you heard of the "**** yes or no" thing? Look for someone who's as enthusiastic about you as you are about them.

[dehro]

In a circuitous way this reminds me of my best friends efforts to generate encounters between me and suitable single ladyfriends of his. Typically, we would meet with him, his wife and said friend for dinner or drinks, I would be social and not pressing any interest the first encounter might generate, waiting for the next week's planned second social call, also to make up my mind as to whether I was interested in the first place. Come the following week, she'd turn up hand in hand with the love of her life/long lost childhood crush, quenching any possible further potential development. After this happened 3 times in a row, I gave up and, I think, so did my friend.

[VincentTakeda]

Gotta be comfortable living in the gray area... Either something special is on the way or it isn't. While some folks are more comfortable establishing the nature of their connections to others, just as many people find the idea of 'categorizing' their contacts with others as much as possible to be unsatisfactory. Totally tough to be the kind of person who's making an effort and sees potential suddenly discover that the other person's been noncommittal specifically because they've had something else in the works for a while and weren't up front about it.. She may not have thought to mention the other guy simply because she wasn't aware that you were interested. She may have been in 'dating around' mode and didn't mention it because she didn't want to lose you as an option, which is kinda the whole purpose of dating around... Having options... Some folks are really averse to being 'one of the options' but in this case it sure doesn't sound like there was a tacit agreement to being exclusive...

I know a couple who, when they first started dating, were going to immediately fall apart because she almost immediately met a guy she liked better and the relationship had barely started so it wasn't like there was going to be any 'ruining any long term investment' type of thing with calling the relationship off, but then the guy she liked better got into a horrible car accident and, though he lived, suddenly the idea of a relationship with him didn't seem like a good idea to her, so she instead stayed with the guy she was already with and they have 2 kids and have been married for over a decade. I'm not sure how long it took before he found out about how that went down...

As much as my gamer brain riles against the idea, sometimes the strongest bonds are forged outside of the fairytale scenarios.

[Lissou]

I don't have a name for it (and thanks for the clarification. The first time I read it, I read it as "person A asks person B out. Person B says 'not yet, I'm dealing with stuff, but later, sure'. Then when the stuff is over person B posts on Facebook 'I'm dating person A' and somehow person A feels ****ty about it".

Then I thought maybe I misinterpreted it and the end was "even though person B asked to wait, person A starts talking about how they're dating on Facebook like it's already happening and so person B feels awkward".

Turns out there is actually a third person in the mix.

My guess is what happened is:

A- Hey, want to go out sometimes
B- Well, I could take it or leave it but I guess that might be nice, and maybe when I'm done with the stuff I'm dealing with I'll really want to. Sure, let's give it a try later.

Then B keeps dealing with stuff and meets someone. And rather than that someone making them feel "I could take it or leave it, I guess, let's revisit the issue in a bit", they make B feel "I want to be with you right now!". So they start dating. They might even only realise now that they weren't that much into A, because now they have a basis for comparison, while before all they had was "That sounds nice" which was better than neutral, and certainly not negative.

With things put into perspective, they might either forget about A (it's not like the promised anything anyways, just consider maybe dating later), or just assume that A found someone else by now, since they did, why wouldn't A? Sure, A probably wasn't looking. But neither was B.
So, on their little cloud of happiness, they want to share with everything, and don't realise how much A cared, because they didn't.

I've had that happen to me. I've even had it happen to me after dating had started. Guy meets someone else, realises the way he felt about me was probably just friendship. He likes me fine, thought if he went through the motions then love might show up. But hey, with this new person the connection is immediate! He guesses that means it wouldn't have worked between us either. He breaks up and says it's not working out and we should be friends, and dates someone else. He believes the transition to friendship is completely smooth because it is for him, plus we weren't that invested into each other anyways. At least he wasn't.

As Serpentine said, he was a "sure, why not". I was a "F*ck yes!". He doesn't realise how much it mattered for me because it doesn't for him.

People aren't being ***** on purpose. They just tend to assume whatever they're feeling is what the other person is also feeling. If for them it wasn't serious or invested, they're not going to assume it is for the other person. They might not even think of it as something that has two perspectives on it. In the same way you can look at something white and say "it's white" and other people who see it the same colour, they saw the relationship or potential relationship, said "it's casual, un-invested, and wouldn't have worked" and assume that's how everyone would see it anyways.

[Jallorn]

Here's a conundrum from a while back: Last summer I reconnected with a girl I knew in high school who I had little interaction with, but was friends with on FB. Her posts on FB showed her becoming a person I would want to know better, so I talked to her. Eventually, I asked her if we could meet up for a real conversation. Communication was slow on her part in general, and I was having my own issues with FB. She flaked on a couple meet ups, then suggested we meet at an Anime Convention. I went in costume, and couldn't find her. Afterwards, there was no response to my communications. I have reason to believe that she might struggle with some level of depression.

What should I take away from this? If she hadn't been the one to suggest the Anime Convention meetup (which was also after I had decided to stop suggesting meetups because she was flaking) I'd have thought she was just trying to brush me off, but she did, suggesting there was some interest in meeting up on her end. Also, every other time she flaked she let me know ahead of time. Is it reasonable to try again in the future, or should I just write her off?

[Crow]

Here's a conundrum from a while back: Last summer I reconnected with a girl I knew in high school who I had little interaction with, but was friends with on FB. Her posts on FB showed her becoming a person I would want to know better, so I talked to her. Eventually, I asked her if we could meet up for a real conversation. Communication was slow on her part in general, and I was having my own issues with FB. She flaked on a couple meet ups, then suggested we meet at an Anime Convention. I went in costume, and couldn't find her. Afterwards, there was no response to my communications. I have reason to believe that she might struggle with some level of depression.

What should I take away from this? If she hadn't been the one to suggest the Anime Convention meetup (which was also after I had decided to stop suggesting meetups because she was flaking) I'd have thought she was just trying to brush me off, but she did, suggesting there was some interest in meeting up on her end. Also, every other time she flaked she let me know ahead of time. Is it reasonable to try again in the future, or should I just write her off?

If what you are saying is accurate, I feel that you have gone well past halfway on the issue, and the ball is in her court now. If she really wants you, she will bring it to half court regardless of what she has going on.

It may just not be a good time for her. Tell her how you feel, and let her take the next steps. In the meantime don't let her ambiguity keep you in limbo. Proceed with your life as if she was not part of it, until she indicates otherwise; or else you run the risk of letting this bug and frustrate you.

[Coidzor]

Here's a conundrum from a while back: Last summer I reconnected with a girl I knew in high school who I had little interaction with, but was friends with on FB. Her posts on FB showed her becoming a person I would want to know better, so I talked to her. Eventually, I asked her if we could meet up for a real conversation. Communication was slow on her part in general, and I was having my own issues with FB. She flaked on a couple meet ups, then suggested we meet at an Anime Convention. I went in costume, and couldn't find her. Afterwards, there was no response to my communications. I have reason to believe that she might struggle with some level of depression.

What should I take away from this? If she hadn't been the one to suggest the Anime Convention meetup (which was also after I had decided to stop suggesting meetups because she was flaking) I'd have thought she was just trying to brush me off, but she did, suggesting there was some interest in meeting up on her end. Also, every other time she flaked she let me know ahead of time. Is it reasonable to try again in the future, or should I just write her off?

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Why would you agree to meet at a Con without cellphone numbers and an agreed upon rendezvous point and time window? How did you have several agreed to rendezvous that failed without exchanging cell phone numbers?

If you actually have her number and she ignored your calls and texts when it was time to meet up and has been ignoring you since then to boot, then, well, that's a pretty clear sign that she's a very silly person who isn't interested in you in the slightest and has wasted time for both of you.

That or she died or ran into someone at the Con who was in the same costume as you told her you'd be in* and she thought this other person was you and then something happened so she got pissed off at them thinking it was you or something equally tortuously convoluted.

But, yeah, nothing's happening here for you unless she changes in a big way and approaches you which is vanishingly unlikely.

*You did tell her you'd be in costume, right? Rather than having a hilariously bad misunderstanding where she was looking for what she remembered of what you looked like of you and what she could glean from your profile picture and you were in a full-face mask like Deadpool or something. Right?

Ahhhh, there we go, that makes much more sense, thanks.
Hrm. It's a tricky one. Was it clear the plan was for a romantic date? It may be she was "dating", in the sort of browsing sense. Unfortunately, we can't ever know what interactions with others are going on in another person's life, and things change, unexpected things happen, new people come along and sweep them off their feet. With no commitment, and assuming they weren't deliberately deceiving, there's no blame.
But, of course, that doesn't make the subject feel any better for now, I'm sure. The best advice I have is... Have you heard of the "**** yes or no" thing? Look for someone who's as enthusiastic about you as you are about them.

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In the one, older case it was explicitly dating in the "we'll try being together" sense of interest.

In the other, current case it's deliciously convoluted the more I learn of it.

Though while I would never rule out the possibility of such incompetence or gross stupidity that someone could misinterpret being asked out on a date as not being asked out on a romantic date but a "just friends" date, the levels of either necessary make me balk at accepting that as a common explanation. My faith in humanity has not been eroded sufficiently quite yet.

Sort of a fine line as far as deceiving goes, though, in the cases where a woman has been dating one guy on the down low for a while and then is approached by a friend who expresses romantic interest in her and she states that she reciprocates this romantic interest and agrees that she'll be interested in a week or two when she has less on her plate.

If there was some form of clear misconduct or deliberate misuse that'd make things easier in advising someone who runs into it, because righteous indignation is a lot more useful in getting over someone than feeling crapped on by the luck of the draw or realizing just how unattractive one actually is to those one is interested in, or at least how unattractive one is relative to one's competition.

In a circuitous way this reminds me of my best friends efforts to generate encounters between me and suitable single ladyfriends of his. Typically, we would meet with him, his wife and said friend for dinner or drinks, I would be social and not pressing any interest the first encounter might generate, waiting for the next week's planned second social call, also to make up my mind as to whether I was interested in the first place. Come the following week, she'd turn up hand in hand with the love of her life/long lost childhood crush, quenching any possible further potential development. After this happened 3 times in a row, I gave up and, I think, so did my friend.

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It almost sounds like you could've started marketing your services as a reverse-match-maker.

That or that's some astoundingly flukey poor luck. Sounds rather awkward to have experienced, especially if you actually got interested in any of them, though, sorry.

Gotta be comfortable living in the gray area... Either something special is on the way or it isn't. While some folks are more comfortable establishing the nature of their connections to others, just as many people find the idea of 'categorizing' their contacts with others as much as possible to be unsatisfactory. Totally tough to be the kind of person who's making an effort and sees potential suddenly discover that the other person's been noncommittal specifically because they've had something else in the works for a while and weren't up front about it.. She may not have thought to mention the other guy simply because she wasn't aware that you were interested. She may have been in 'dating around' mode and didn't mention it because she didn't want to lose you as an option, which is kinda the whole purpose of dating around... Having options... Some folks are really averse to being 'one of the options' but in this case it sure doesn't sound like there was a tacit agreement to being exclusive...

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For "dating around" to be the case, one has to actually be dating around, though, and it'd change the scenario entirely for that to have been the case. As well as raise questions about why they'd tell someone to wait a bit due to being indisposed if they were trying people on like hats to see which ones fit, rather than telling them that their social calendar was full and they'd have to take a number and wait for it to empty out a bit. I'd say it significantly increases the possibility that there's something unsavory that went on, either interpersonally or within the minds and approach taken by individual actors if such were the case.

Kinda integral for the whole scenario, that, really, otherwise it'd be really simple and cut-and-dry stuff like a love triangle where two or more people were actively competing for another person and obviously someone has to lose in that scenario because we're not dealing with poly people if we can get into that kind of situation.

Though, I'll admit, I'm also not that familiar with how to console someone who just lost in a love triangle situation, either, other than to encourage them to cut those people out of their personal life and say something along the lines of "Oh, **** people who'd put you in a love triangle in the first place. We're better off without those kind of people in our social circle anyway." It hasn't exactly come up all that often, though, I think partially because it's less frustrating for there to have been at least the illusion of having had a chance to compete rather than being told to line up at the starting line when someone else had already crossed the finish line.

As much as my gamer brain riles against the idea, sometimes the strongest bonds are forged outside of the fairytale scenarios.

Well, yeah, that's part of why the friend who had this happen to them a few months ago pursued the girl at all, because she was one of the first people they'd been into where it wasn't some kind of head over heels thing, but a more sober, measured attraction rather than something that made them feel like their IQ had measurably decreased.

I don't have a name for it (and thanks for the clarification. The first time I read it, I read it as "person A asks person B out. Person B says 'not yet, I'm dealing with stuff, but later, sure'. Then when the stuff is over person B posts on Facebook 'I'm dating person A' and somehow person A feels ****ty about it".

Then I thought maybe I misinterpreted it and the end was "even though person B asked to wait, person A starts talking about how they're dating on Facebook like it's already happening and so person B feels awkward".

Turns out there is actually a third person in the mix.

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Well, yeah, I wouldn't have anything to console anyone for if it was a stupid argument about people announcing their relationship on Facebook for or someone being a prat by telling the world that they're dating when they're not.

I'm not that patient with others, especially when they're being so foolish. I'd pretty much just want to smack people if I were approached about either of those sorts of things. XD

My guess is what happened is:

A- Hey, want to go out sometimes
B- Well, I could take it or leave it but I guess that might be nice, and maybe when I'm done with the stuff I'm dealing with I'll really want to. Sure, let's give it a try later.

Then B keeps dealing with stuff and meets someone. And rather than that someone making them feel "I could take it or leave it, I guess, let's revisit the issue in a bit", they make B feel "I want to be with you right now!". So they start dating. They might even only realise now that they weren't that much into A, because now they have a basis for comparison, while before all they had was "That sounds nice" which was better than neutral, and certainly not negative.

I can guess at the order of operations, sure, but that doesn't really help with what to do about my friend who is distraught about it, unless I can dissect things enough to hold up something and point it out to them and say "Ok, this is where you ****ed up, don't do this again in the future, chalk this one up as a learning experience and move on." If that would even be something that'd hold traction with them, and I'm fairly certain it wouldn't in one of them and it might in the other.

IWith things put into perspective, they might either forget about A (it's not like the promised anything anyways, just consider maybe dating later), or just assume that A found someone else by now, since they did, why wouldn't A? Sure, A probably wasn't looking. But neither was B.
So, on their little cloud of happiness, they want to share with everything, and don't realise how much A cared, because they didn't.

That level of unawareness of the interest by the first party in the second party or of the second party of the first party's relationship status seems ...unlikely, given the interpersonal relationships and friendships involved in the situations I've encountered or been involved in.

Are women really that good at completely forgetting that their friends want to date them and have approached them about it and been told to wait for them? I mean, I suppose I've heard something about women often living in denial about their male friends being sexually or romantically interested in them as some sort of survival mechanism, but I thought that was mostly an exaggeration and it doesn't seem like it'd quite apply to the sort of situation where someone confessed romantic interest or intent and asked the other party out.

And why on earth would one assume that a friend who was waiting for them had found someone else and moved on when they haven't heard anything from their friend who is into them about said friend having found and started dating someone new?

We're supposed to assume people in our social circles or actual friends are in relationships when they give no indication of such and haven't told us or told anyone who then told us? What? Why?

I've had that happen to me. I've even had it happen to me after dating had started. Guy meets someone else, realises the way he felt about me was probably just friendship. He likes me fine, thought if he went through the motions then love might show up. But hey, with this new person the connection is immediate! He guesses that means it wouldn't have worked between us either. He breaks up and says it's not working out and we should be friends, and dates someone else. He believes the transition to friendship is completely smooth because it is for him, plus we weren't that invested into each other anyways. At least he wasn't.

If you were dating and then you got dumped because someone better came along, that's not really the same thing.

It's a pretty ****ty scenario, to be sure, but it's a different kind of craptacular feeling to go through, especially when someone goes from dating to "let's just be friends" by way of being dumped for someone else.

As Serpentine said, he was a "sure, why not". I was a "F*ck yes!". He doesn't realise how much it mattered for me because it doesn't for him.

Sort of weird that you never pointed this out to him or took some personal time away from him, then, that he's still unaware of such to this day.

IPeople aren't being ***** on purpose. They just tend to assume whatever they're feeling is what the other person is also feeling. If for them it wasn't serious or invested, they're not going to assume it is for the other person. They might not even think of it as something that has two perspectives on it. In the same way you can look at something white and say "it's white" and other people who see it the same colour, they saw the relationship or potential relationship, said "it's casual, un-invested, and wouldn't have worked" and assume that's how everyone would see it anyways.

Well, I'm not assuming that the women in these scenarios are being *********** to people on purpose. At least, I don't think that I am.

I definitely see potential grounds for critique of people's personal conduct and some potential explanations for certain behaviors or actions would require an ill will or carelessness to the point where the difference is semantic, though.

[Lissou]

I'm not sure exactly how you should act, except being there for them. As for giving them advice for the future, the only one I can think of is "If they're really into you, they will want to date now. A "later" is still not a yes. And you should treat anything that isn't a clear yes as a no".

So... treat it as "they turned me down, but said I can try again later after they're done dealing with some stuff". Which is what seems to have happened in effect anyways.

[Jallorn]

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Why would you agree to meet at a Con without cellphone numbers and an agreed upon rendezvous point and time window? How did you have several agreed to rendezvous that failed without exchanging cell phone numbers?

If you actually have her number and she ignored your calls and texts when it was time to meet up and has been ignoring you since then to boot, then, well, that's a pretty clear sign that she's a very silly person who isn't interested in you in the slightest and has wasted time for both of you.

That or she died or ran into someone at the Con who was in the same costume as you told her you'd be in* and she thought this other person was you and then something happened so she got pissed off at them thinking it was you or something equally tortuously convoluted.

But, yeah, nothing's happening here for you unless she changes in a big way and approaches you which is vanishingly unlikely.

*You did tell her you'd be in costume, right? Rather than having a hilariously bad misunderstanding where she was looking for what she remembered of what you looked like of you and what she could glean from your profile picture and you were in a full-face mask like Deadpool or something. Right?

I told her I'd be dressed up as Dr. Horrible, and I had her cell phone, but she did warn me her reception was spotty there. I didn't know enough about the location to advise a meetup point (I didn't even realize there was a second building until I'd been there an hour or two), and she wasn't suggesting a specific meeting place. The previous meetups that were planned were discussed purely over FB. She didn't flake on the day of, but before the date.

[dehro]

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It almost sounds like you could've started marketing your services as a reverse-match-maker.

That or that's some astoundingly flukey poor luck. Sounds rather awkward to have experienced, especially if you actually got interested in any of them, though, sorry.

I know.. I'm thinking of setting up a company for it. I shall call it
the blueballs corporation,
There's your guy, now you kids run along and play... I'll just sit here quietly, in a corner, counting my thumbs...

On a more serious note, it takes more than a pasta dish at my friend's house for me to get a serious crush going on, so I didn't lose any sleep over any of them. Other than a mild irritation with my life once the pattern emerged, I'm good.

I told her I'd be dressed up as Dr. Horrible, and I had her cell phone, but she did warn me her reception was spotty there. I didn't know enough about the location to advise a meetup point (I didn't even realize there was a second building until I'd been there an hour or two), and she wasn't suggesting a specific meeting place. The previous meetups that were planned were discussed purely over FB. She didn't flake on the day of, but before the date.

[Chen]

I'm not sure exactly how you should act, except being there for them. As for giving them advice for the future, the only one I can think of is "If they're really into you, they will want to date now. A "later" is still not a yes. And you should treat anything that isn't a clear yes as a no".

So... treat it as "they turned me down, but said I can try again later after they're done dealing with some stuff". Which is what seems to have happened in effect anyways.

I'm not even sure the last bit is worthwhile. In very many cases the "not now, maybe later" is just the polite way of saying "Never". I'm sure many people have experienced the "I'm not really ready yet" just to have the person get into a relationship very soon after with someone else. The above statement "If they're really into you, they will want to date now" is very apt. There are a lot of people out there. Don't get fixated on a "maybe later", just drop it and move on.

[Serpentine]

It's not necessarily "just politeness". I feel like an awful lot of people jump awfully readily to lies, where mere uncertainty or not being honest to themselves is, I think, a lot more common. It goes back to that "**** yes or no" thing: it's not a no, it's a "well, maybe", until a **** yes actually does come along and they leap for it. They didn't, couldn't know that would happen, and maybe hoped that their "like" would grow to more.
For the person who was already dating someone, well, if they were in a committed, monogamous relationship, then they were either exceptionally oblivious or being unfaithful. That's a different kettle of fish.

[Lissou]

Yeah, I don't think people are trying to be deceitful. I think they're thinking "Well I have a lot to think about right now so it's not the right time, but... maybe later". So they say exactly that. Only when they meet someone they're really into do they realise that their lukewarm feelings weren't due to being stressed out or busy, but to the fact they weren't that into the first person to begin with.

[Serpentine]

Because I think this is just the sort of situation it could be useful in, here's the Eff Yes Or No thing (tinyurl cuz it has swearing in the original URL which would be censored by the forum. Also, language warning).
Now, this has flaws, doesn't necessarily apply to every situation, sometimes thinking about the grey area is worth doing and hesitation isn't necessarily bad... But I think it can be particularly good for shoving yourself out of that zone when, really, you know that's what it is.

[golentan]

Okay, I'm gonna go ahead and ask for general advice here because dating is not really working out for me and I'd like to try to figure out why so I can fix it.

For one thing, I'm not interested in asking out people I don't know. I had a dating profile for a long time, but I never asked anyone on a date until we had talked for a while and I had decided I was in fact interested in them as a person. I don't want to invoke the friend zone, but the most common response I've gotten to asking out my friends (because my friends have at least some of the qualities I'm looking for in a mate or I wouldn't want to spend time with them) is "I don't think of you that way, you're my friend." Which is cool, I figure 10 rejections to one acceptance is acceptable odds if the acceptance is likely to lead to a lasting and satisfying relationship, except when they're weirded out by my asking them and cut off the friendship, since I wouldn't ask them out if I didn't think they were cool people who I want to spend time with, which has made me more reticent about asking people out, which seems to aggravate things when I do ask them out. Feels kinda like a catch 22, if I wait too long it's unacceptable to them and I look like a "nice guy," but if I don't wait to see that there's a solid friendship there it's unacceptable to me.

I deleted my dating profile out of aggravation because I was getting a lot of messages from jerks, and no messages from decent human beings (I think of the 30 people over 5 years who seemed nice and interesting enough to message, 3 answered me with anything other than a brushoff, even though I composed each message individually with a comment about common interests and questions about the things they enjoyed), and even then there was basically never any chemistry on the dates I went on. But this opened a new problem: I have a small social circle, I'm slow to make new friends, and I avoid the bar/club scenes. There's nobody in my circle currently who is both interesting and who I haven't asked out already, and I don't really know how to meet new people other than through work, school, or group therapy. I've got an upcoming new group therapy I'm going to be joining, but I don't know how to avoid the abovementioned catch 22 should I meet anyone worth adding to my social circle.

This wouldn't so much be a problem if cheap teleportation was available. There are several people who I've met through the LGBT thread who I know would be interested and who I find interesting (we've talked about it at length in some cases), but I don't know how to convert my success with internet friendships to IRL friendships. It might be a physical thing, I'm not particularly unattractive but I do have some issues with body odor (and yes, I know they're issues and I have taken steps, I shower at least once daily with a full body scrub and use deodorant, but I have a very strong odor nonetheless and especially if I'm nervous, say on a date, it can overpower every method I've found to keep it in check). I'm trying to be realistic and practical but this is growing extremely disheartening, I've had one date since I broke up with my girlfriend last year, and that was kind of disastrous. I know I'm good in relationships once I'm in one, but making that first connection is daunting. There's also the issue that I have never been attracted to heteronormative people in practice: Indeed, apparently my biggest draws are asexuality and lesbianism, followed by transgender or genderqueer folks, distantly followed by bisexuality and gay men. I don't know what signals I'm picking up on, but I'm immediately attracted to every person that I later found out was asexual with bonus attraction points for aromantic, and sexual/romantic incompatibility as good a reason for rejecting me as any I can come up with. So the fact that I prefer women generally speaking is not helpful information to have when combined with my attraction almost exclusively to women who just are completely uninterested in anything I could bring to the table. I'm willing to go out on a limb, but doing so has such a low success rate...

I'm not willing to go to the bar/club scene because I tried it and the people there are not for me. Initiating a conversation with a stranger is hard enough without the tendency to realize "Oh, I hate you, goodbye." But other than that, advice for broadening my circle and making new friends would be helpful, since as mentioned it's with friends that I most often find a deeper connection that's worth exploring.

Okay, enough talking in circles, golentan. Help?

[Serpentine]

Expanding your circle certainly seems like a good start. You can do that by getting your friends to introduce you to their friends, or striking up conversations with random interesting strangers (I did that just last night). Easier is probably clubs, groups and meet-ups. Check Facebook groups for things that interest you - I recently joined a local groupfor people who like sci fi and fantasy that occasionally has events, for example. Meetup.com is also a thing - my housemate joined one for rockclimbing and met a bunch of new people through it. There's more I'm sure, basically just look for things that engage your interest and involve contact with other people.

Regarding your odour, have you talked to a doctor? If it's that much of a problem it's almost certainly a medical issue. There's treatments for things like that, including heavy-duty prescription-only deodorant.

[golentan]

It hasn't been bad enough for me to decide to switch to a prescription deodorant or anything, but I'm leaning that way, yeah.

[dehro]

It hasn't been bad enough for me to decide to switch to a prescription deodorant or anything, but I'm leaning that way, yeah.

actually if it's the symptom of something else, fixing that something else could very well take the problem away.. like bad breath can be caused by a rotten tooth and if you take that out, away goes the bad breath

[rogueboy]

It hasn't been bad enough for me to decide to switch to a prescription deodorant or anything, but I'm leaning that way, yeah.

If it's bad enough that it's interfering with your life despite you doing the basic hygiene things (shower, deodorant, etc), it's bad enough to warrant at least talking to a doctor. Whether a stronger deodorant is the answer or not, well, that's what a doctor is for.

I'll also second Serp's recommendation of meetup.com - I used it last summer to find pick-up soccer games, and eventually a team that I hang out with. That, and forcing yourself outside of your comfort zone (myself, I'm going to do a community outreach on heartburn this weekend, and am going down to the capital to talk to legislators in a little under 2 weeks... more things that force me to interact with people I tend to shell up around - but I've got the advantage of the pharmacy program organizing a bunch of things like this that I can join).

[rs2excelsior]

Well, I have recently met and started talking to a girl in choir, and things seem to be going well. I don't know if things will develop into any kind of romantic relationship, but I certainly think there's a chance it might go that way. And even if they don't, she seems really cool, so I'd be happy with having her as a friend, too. We're meeting up this afternoon after we're both done with classes so I can help her make her first D&D character

Now, I just can't let my usual (not entirely unjustified) paranoia that if I do ask her out, she'll say no and it will basically kill any friendship we had beforehand take over.

So I guess I'm not really here for advice. More moral support, and a general thanks for all the advice people have given me here in the past. Y'all are great, really.

[Coidzor]

So I've joined a new D&D group and so I now have a group of people to inflict baked goods upon when I'm in the mood and a game is coming up, so I asked the hostess about whether she or the DM who is her bestie had any food allergies or anything I should know about now rather than after one of them is dying of anaphylactic shock or about to go all militant vegan on me. And then remembered her roommate as an afterthought because if I bring enough to actually share, chances are that some would eventually filter through or be exposed to le roomie.

And the hostess said that none of them had any particular dietary concerns, but that her roommate would appreciate my asking.

I'm quite confused by that reply and asked "she'd be appreciative of my not wanting to kill her with anaphylaxis?"

Apparently, yes.

Should I be confused here or is this one of those cases where normal human responses are alien and strange things to me due to my social reclusion/ineptitude or something?

Or is there something to read into that, like I was being inappropriate somehow?

[Crow]

So I've joined a new D&D group and so I now have a group of people to inflict baked goods upon when I'm in the mood and a game is coming up, so I asked the hostess about whether she or the DM who is her bestie had any food allergies or anything I should know about now rather than after one of them is dying of anaphylactic shock or about to go all militant vegan on me. And then remembered her roommate as an afterthought because if I bring enough to actually share, chances are that some would eventually filter through or be exposed to le roomie.

And the hostess said that none of them had any particular dietary concerns, but that her roommate would appreciate my asking.

I'm quite confused by that reply and asked "she'd be appreciative of my not wanting to kill her with anaphylaxis?"

Apparently, yes.

Should I be confused here or is this one of those cases where normal human responses are alien and strange things to me due to my social reclusion/ineptitude or something?

Or is there something to read into that, like I was being inappropriate somehow?

There is nothing to read into that. Most people are surprised with common courtesy these days for some reason.

[Oneris]

I feel like it's more like "She'd be appreciative of being acknowledged as a person (who may be affected by goings on in the apartment) and not just as a piece of ambulatory furniture or background scenery."

It happens pretty often with non-best-friend roommates that the other occupant is treated as not existing except in cases where interaction is unavoidable.

[Coidzor]

There is nothing to read into that. Most people are surprised with common courtesy these days for some reason.

That would have been my 5th guess, right after "this was some kind of joke or reference I just failed to get or the hostess was teasing me or something."

I feel like it's more like "She'd be appreciative of being acknowledged as a person (who may be affected by goings on in the apartment) and not just as a piece of ambulatory furniture or background scenery."

It happens pretty often with non-best-friend roommates that the other occupant is treated as not existing except in cases where interaction is unavoidable.

Ah, yeah, I suppose so, though they seem pretty chummy so I don't think that's quite the dynamic they have, but I do have a very limited amount of exposure seeing as how I met both of them in the flesh for the first time this past Thursday.

[Amaril]

So I was just told that my most recent ex, whom I broke up with several months ago, has hated me ever since because I ended it via phone call. I did this because the girl I dated before that asked me to come meet her in person, a fairly long ride from my house, specifically so she could dump me; it was a miserable experience, I wish she'd done it just about any other way, and I didn't want to inflict that on anyone else. The friend who told me her reaction said that breaking up with someone over the phone is a universal faux-pas, like doing it via text. I had never once heard of this.

In the interest of full disclosure, my call apparently caught her while she was out of the house with her family. I picked that moment to call her because she had messaged me on Facebook a second before, which I took to mean she was at home in her bedroom; I failed to consider that she had messaged me from her phone just as often for as long as I'd known her. It didn't occur to me to ask her where she was.

Did I do something horrible?

[Crow]

So I was just told that my most recent ex, whom I broke up with several months ago, has hated me ever since because I ended it via phone call. I did this because the girl I dated before that asked me to come meet her in person, a fairly long ride from my house, specifically so she could dump me; it was a miserable experience, I wish she'd done it just about any other way, and I didn't want to inflict that on anyone else. The friend who told me her reaction said that breaking up with someone over the phone is a universal faux-pas, like doing it via text. I had never once heard of this.

In the interest of full disclosure, my call apparently caught her while she was out of the house with her family. I picked that moment to call her because she had messaged me on Facebook a second before, which I took to mean she was at home in her bedroom; I failed to consider that she had messaged me from her phone just as often for as long as I'd known her. It didn't occur to me to ask her where she was.

Did I do something horrible?

Breaking up with someone over the phone is usually a pretty big no-no. You go to them and do it in person.

Though speaking from experience doing it over the phone is in my opinion okay if you're worried that making the attempt in person will result in more sex with that person.

[dehro]

Seconded. Your previous ex being a insert expletive * for making you do the ride does not mean you should be as inconsiderate. Any form of breakup that isn't face to face is either inconsiderate or problematic, or both.
And no, nobody is that good in the sack that they should be capable to sway you from breaking up with them with sex.

[Coidzor]

So I was just told that my most recent ex, whom I broke up with several months ago, has hated me ever since because I ended it via phone call. I did this because the girl I dated before that asked me to come meet her in person, a fairly long ride from my house, specifically so she could dump me; it was a miserable experience, I wish she'd done it just about any other way, and I didn't want to inflict that on anyone else. The friend who told me her reaction said that breaking up with someone over the phone is a universal faux-pas, like doing it via text. I had never once heard of this.

In the interest of full disclosure, my call apparently caught her while she was out of the house with her family. I picked that moment to call her because she had messaged me on Facebook a second before, which I took to mean she was at home in her bedroom; I failed to consider that she had messaged me from her phone just as often for as long as I'd known her. It didn't occur to me to ask her where she was.

Did I do something horrible?

You didn't exactly do good, either. But the fact that it's been more than 2 months and she's still mad about the manner in which you dumped her rather than merely slightly put off by it relative to the whole bitterness and recrimination towards you as a person as her ex as a whole is... Well, that's on her. Probably. Certainly there's most things we don't know about that could be a factor there.

Definitely sounds like an experience you can learn from, though.

Breaking up via phone call is generally undesirable and to be avoided with people who are generally accessible. It's the best of a bad lot when it comes to LDRs, but, well, unless you're part of a rare subset of people, LDRs are a bad time all around

As for whether it's a true faux pas... Couldn't say, but if it isn't, it's close to one. Outside of rare or extenuating circumstances, anyway.

[Crow]

And no, nobody is that good in the sack that they should be capable to sway you from breaking up with them with sex.

Nobody said that it stopped the breakup. :)

[Amaril]

Seconded. Your previous ex being a insert expletive * for making you do the ride does not mean you should be as inconsiderate. Any form of breakup that isn't face to face is either inconsiderate or problematic, or both.

I honestly had no idea I was even being inconsiderate at the time. I knew texting was not okay, but I thought an actual call was considered a different matter.

Well, now I know to never do it again...assuming this doesn't make me a horrible person who can't be allowed to have a relationship forever, at least