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Thread: Upcoming TABLE Code Changes
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2014-02-19, 10:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Upcoming TABLE Code Changes
Does your browser's text-input field accept tab-characters (Firefox doesn't, at least for me)? Or do you just use a lot of extra spaces? Because for me, and for any table I've quoted either to see how they did something (I always forget how to do odd spacing and merges) or to comment on a homebrew, there's no spaces in it and it all runs together. Looks nothing like a table.
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2014-02-19, 11:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Upcoming TABLE Code Changes
It's Tab's and i delete them once i'm done with a column, (usually it's one or 2 tabs per column so it's easy to knock out), do it column by column. Works, though with chrome i think i can paste it directly and the forum currently formats it right.
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2014-02-20, 03:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Upcoming TABLE Code Changes
It sounds like this'll provide better utility and flexibility of tables, whilst sacrificing some of the simplicity of the current code. I'm sure I'll get used to it, for the basic tables I use.
If there's going to be a button that will draw up a basic table to populate then great.
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2014-02-20, 07:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Upcoming TABLE Code Changes
I for one welcome this change, will make making tables a lot simpler.
Assuming this'll make nested tables easier to deal with also?"I'm just going on motive and opportunity here and the fact that if the earth got swallowed by a black hole, I'd look suspiciously in your direction first."
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2014-02-20, 07:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Upcoming TABLE Code Changes
John Ling
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Note: unless explicitly stated otherwise, opinions in my posts are my own and not those of Frog God Games.
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2014-02-20, 07:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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2014-02-20, 08:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Upcoming TABLE Code Changes
Ah, ok. Well, I'm pretty sure I've answered that since then anyway.
This is one specific change in an entire upgrade, one change we are announcing specifically because of how drastically different it is. We're making the upgrade because the new version is, on the whole, going to be better for us at this present time.
While I personally prefer the current TABLE format (except for the messy BR situation) in a lot of ways (simplicity and ease of use is preferable), this new code is actually an improvement in many other ways: It now aligns much closer with the standard (as seen in the HTML you are formatting), it provides many more options, it will be easier for us to customise/create layout improvements you can use, and it will be easier to get it the way you want it to look.
It's a trade off that many others have already expressed preferring.
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2014-02-20, 10:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Upcoming TABLE Code Changes
This is very similar (if not identical) to the basic {TABLE} code over on minmaxboards. Prime32 was able to implement fancier tables, with row/cell shading, column spanning, sortable tables, etc. Maybe some code merging might help?
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2014-02-20, 10:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Upcoming TABLE Code Changes
I'd be interested in knowing the site you find, so I can start converting my tables now, and then test them. That way, the switch over process, while the server is upgrading, I can upgrade my tables.
I appreciate the information, Rawhide. Now to wrap my mind around the coding.
Once question I have is will things like lists, and such be able to be placed into the tables like they are now? What about things like [div] [/div] and such?
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2014-02-20, 10:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Upcoming TABLE Code Changes
well, hopefully after the flood gate is opened and the upgrade happens, i hope for 4 features to quickly suit.
1) Column-Spanning
2) Row-Spanning
3) Possible background color changes (EX: a 2x2 table, top 2 colored red, bottom 2 blue.)
And 4) Thickness/Color of certain lines on the table.
Making having maps on GITP easier at least.
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2014-02-20, 12:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Upcoming TABLE Code Changes
While I personally prefer the current TABLE format (except for the messy BR situation) in a lot of ways (simplicity and ease of use is preferable), this new code is actually an improvement in many other ways: It now aligns much closer with the standard (as seen in the HTML you are formatting), it provides many more options, it will be easier for us to customise/create layout improvements you can use, and it will be easier to get it the way you want it to look.Last edited by Carl; 2014-02-20 at 12:02 PM.
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2014-02-20, 12:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Upcoming TABLE Code Changes
Because explicit tr/td tags make things like multiline cells, variable width columns, and such easier to do, and because it conforms more closely to the HTML standard.
That means that it can offer many more customization options, since there's more structure to work with and since you can port over some HTML stuff. The second point also means that people unfamiliar with BBcode formatting can use HTML tools like these to get them started with the formatting so they don't do things like forget a | in the first row and lose a column or the like.
Not to mention that this style is more standardized, so people who post on multiple forums don't have to remember different formats and people who want to transfer material to and from MinMax (for instance) can just copy-paste and not need to reformat stuff.
Originally Posted by Rawhide
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2014-02-20, 01:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Upcoming TABLE Code Changes
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2014-02-20, 01:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Upcoming TABLE Code Changes
Well that's unfortunate. Nothing to be done, though. Always knew the old version was too good to last; still haven't seen it anywhere but here.
My days of forum tables are over.
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2014-02-20, 01:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Upcoming TABLE Code Changes
So basically you'd be implementing the whole thing from scratch and then run into namespace collisions halfway that break everything anyway? Well that kinda sucks.
If someone were to, hypothetically, make a little Java tool or webpage or something that would let you enter the old-style forum code and then spit out the new-style formatting for you to copy and paste, would you find that useful? I'd been planning to convert the table in my PbPs and homebrew that way already, and I wouldn't mind hosting such a converter somewhere if people would find that helpful.
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2014-02-20, 01:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Upcoming TABLE Code Changes
Code:[th]text[/th]
Any chance for getting a table generator while at it ... another forum i'm attending have a table generator that works nicely (although its crapshot at formatting it so its manually edit able)
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2014-02-20, 01:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Upcoming TABLE Code Changes
If there is some place where it is possible to test the new code, that would be really nice.
But since I have the feeling that it is possible to add features, I think it could be hard to locate one that works exactly like the one we will get. On top of that it might even be troublesome if the code is the same, since other (layout-)options might even change how the tables will look.
EDIT:
If it is easy usable I think that would be nice for some, but it might have some hard stuff (like {BR}-stuff, nested tables, colspan). So it might be helpful to get a easy Tool that does the easy part (which should be rather easy), but with a Disclaimer it will (/might not work) with more complicated stuff.
I personally can say that I would not use, because I generate the BBcode for the post I maintain with a Perl-script, and changing that code to the new should be rather trivial
[I might use such a tool for random posts I will find that uses table, but I'm probable not in the mood to search my past posts for random tables]Last edited by ChristianSt; 2014-02-20 at 01:58 PM.
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2014-02-20, 02:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Upcoming TABLE Code Changes
been looking a bit around how the tables are most likely going to be implemeneted
do this look like what it's going to be changed to?
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2014-02-20, 02:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Upcoming TABLE Code Changes
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2014-02-20, 03:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Upcoming TABLE Code Changes
Basically instead of table=head, you'll do something like:
{table}
{tr}{th}*header column 1*{/th}{th}*header column 2*{/th}{th}*header column 3*{/th}{/tr}
{tr}{td}table data for col 1{/td}{td}table data for col 2{/td}{td}table data for col 3{/td}{/tr}
{/table}
Honestly, I'm disappointed. I understand the benefits that going with the html standard can have, but it's mostly a lot of features that the majority of us won't use anyway. The old format is intuitive and easy to use (I've even come to using that same format to organize things outside these forums, when I want to work on something quick in notepad instead of opening up Word and worrying about formatting), and it's pretty sad that there's no way to get the two to work side by side.
I take it that there's no way to create a new code that would give that older functionality? Like having {table} read both the new and old code is impossible, but couldn't you make a new BBCode something like {oldtable} and configure that to interpret things the way we're used to? Or is that what you already tried and it just doesn't play nice with the new forum software?If my text is blue, I'm being sarcastic.But you already knew that, right?
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2014-02-20, 03:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Upcoming TABLE Code Changes
I was poking around earlier today on a site that uses 4.2.2, and this is correct. the TH tag does work to create a header record. However, at least on the site I was using, the header was not formatted with a different background color, nor could you click the column name to sort by it. The former, I'm fairly certain, is just part of the CSS code for the site. If so, Rawhide can add the codes to the site CSS and that should work all pretty like. That would leave the sorting, which - I'm guessing - is something we'd lose, at least in the short term.
John Ling
Frog God Games Lead Pathfinder Developer
Note: unless explicitly stated otherwise, opinions in my posts are my own and not those of Frog God Games.
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2014-02-20, 04:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Upcoming TABLE Code Changes
yeah the coloring is just setting up the CSS / Forum Palette up correctly ... the table sorting on the other hand i'm not quite sure how to handle ... been ages since i dived deep into html coding
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2014-02-20, 05:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Upcoming TABLE Code Changes
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2014-02-20, 09:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Upcoming TABLE Code Changes
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2014-02-20, 11:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Upcoming TABLE Code Changes
I much preferred the current system for ease of use as well (except for BR issues). Unfortunately, it was not possible to keep it, so now I'm looking to what the future holds and what we (both users and staff) will be able to do with it.
I need to make a list of things that are answered in finality. There is no point in asking these, because it's only just going to occupy our time answering in the negative. Not taking a dig at you or anyone else posting, everyone is curious and wants to help out, but there's nothing more to be said on these matters:
- There was no way to get the two systems to run concurrently.
- There was no way to use the old and not the new.
- There is no way to do a board-wide find and replace to switch existing tables safely.
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2014-02-21, 12:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Upcoming TABLE Code Changes
No offense taken. I figured that it was something you had already considered and for whatever reason isn't possible with the forum software (I have no experience with whatever software this forum runs on), but figured it was worth mentioning.
I am curious, could you tell us some of the non-table related benefits coming from the forum switch? I assume there are new features that you believe will be more popular, or some other benefits to justify making the upgrade. I think it'd help if instead of "All your tables are broken" we got to hear some of the positive things coming up. Or is there already another topic with something like that that I haven't seen?If my text is blue, I'm being sarcastic.But you already knew that, right?
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2014-02-21, 09:01 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Upcoming TABLE Code Changes
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2014-02-21, 10:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Upcoming TABLE Code Changes
I really don't care that much about what is used as a separator.
But the old system is just inflexible in how whitespace can be used to format the code. And that will change.
Spoiler: comparison of old vs. new tables
Here is some of the current code I have in a thread I maintain:
{TABLE][CENTER][IMG]http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r704/ChristianSteu/Roy_04_zps7d104f60.gif[/IMG][B][/CENTER][/B]|[CENTER][IMG]http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r704/ChristianSteu/Haley_02_zpsb3044f38.gif[/IMG][B][/CENTER][/B]|[CENTER][IMG]http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r704/ChristianSteu/Redcloak_02_zpsb5823832.gif[/IMG][B][/CENTER][/B]|[CENTER][IMG]http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r704/ChristianSteu/Redcloak_03_zps662d1091.gif[/IMG][B][/CENTER][/B]
[CENTER][IMG]http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r704/ChristianSteu/Roy_03_zps5bf84ca0.gif[/IMG][B][/CENTER][/B]|[CENTER][IMG]http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r704/ChristianSteu/Roy_05_zps31420d6d.gif[/IMG][B][/CENTER][/B]|[CENTER][IMG]http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r704/ChristianSteu/Roy_02_zps195b4ef3.gif[/IMG][B][/CENTER][/B]|[CENTER][IMG]http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r704/ChristianSteu/Belkar_03_zps6a39fd27.gif[/IMG][B][/CENTER][/B]
[CENTER][IMG]http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r704/ChristianSteu/Belkar_06_zps31c0f401.gif[/IMG][B][/CENTER][/B]|[CENTER][IMG]http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r704/ChristianSteu/Belkar_04_zpsc47431ba.gif[/IMG][B][/CENTER][/B]|[CENTER][IMG]http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r704/ChristianSteu/Belkar_01_zps77fa3d80.gif[/IMG][B][/CENTER][/B]|[CENTER][IMG]http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r704/ChristianSteu/Belkar_05_zps6cb5e946.gif[/IMG][B][/CENTER][/B]
[CENTER][IMG]http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r704/ChristianSteu/Durkon_05_zps8122ebf4.gif[/IMG][B][/CENTER][/B]|[CENTER][IMG]http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r704/ChristianSteu/Durkon_01_zps00df6cd0.gif[/IMG][B][/CENTER][/B]|[CENTER][IMG]http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r704/ChristianSteu/Durkon_03_zps60507f68.gif[/IMG][B][/CENTER][/B]|[CENTER][IMG]http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r704/ChristianSteu/Durkon_04_zps0e643130.gif[/IMG][B][/CENTER][/B]
[CENTER][IMG]http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r704/ChristianSteu/Elan_04_zps50a2a1f2.gif[/IMG][B][/CENTER][/B]|[CENTER][IMG]http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r704/ChristianSteu/Elan_03_zps3b024274.gif[/IMG][B][/CENTER][/B]|[CENTER][IMG]http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r704/ChristianSteu/Elan_05_zpsb5e62612.gif[/IMG][B][/CENTER][/B]|[CENTER][IMG]http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r704/ChristianSteu/Durkon_02_zps23d063d2.gif[/IMG][B][/CENTER][/B]
[CENTER][IMG]http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r704/ChristianSteu/Elan_01_zps50f79653.gif[/IMG][B][/CENTER][/B]|[CENTER][IMG]http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r704/ChristianSteu/Elan_06_zps7bb33cfb.gif[/IMG][B][/CENTER][/B]|[CENTER][IMG]http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r704/ChristianSteu/Vaarsuvius_02_zps6a3d2018.gif[/IMG][B][/CENTER][/B][/TABLE]
Imo it is really hard to change that, because It is even optically rather hard to catch the "|", and it is just horrible to have such long lines. (This whole text are just 6 lines!)
With the new style I can sort the cells in the code how I like, and get a much more readable code, like the following:
{TABLE]
[TR]
[TD][CENTER][IMG]http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r704/ChristianSteu/Roy_04_zps7d104f60.gif[/IMG][B][/CENTER][/B][/TD]
[TD][CENTER][IMG]http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r704/ChristianSteu/Haley_02_zpsb3044f38.gif[/IMG][B][/CENTER][/B][/TD]
[TD][CENTER][IMG]http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r704/ChristianSteu/Redcloak_02_zpsb5823832.gif[/IMG][B][/CENTER][/B][/TD]
[TD][CENTER][IMG]http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r704/ChristianSteu/Redcloak_03_zps662d1091.gif[/IMG][B][/CENTER][/B][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][CENTER][IMG]http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r704/ChristianSteu/Roy_03_zps5bf84ca0.gif[/IMG][B][/CENTER][/B][/TD]
[TD][CENTER][IMG]http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r704/ChristianSteu/Roy_05_zps31420d6d.gif[/IMG][B][/CENTER][/B][/TD]
[TD][CENTER][IMG]http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r704/ChristianSteu/Roy_02_zps195b4ef3.gif[/IMG][B][/CENTER][/B][/TD]
[TD][CENTER][IMG]http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r704/ChristianSteu/Belkar_03_zps6a39fd27.gif[/IMG][B][/CENTER][/B][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][CENTER][IMG]http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r704/ChristianSteu/Belkar_06_zps31c0f401.gif[/IMG][B][/CENTER][/B][/TD]
[TD][CENTER][IMG]http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r704/ChristianSteu/Belkar_04_zpsc47431ba.gif[/IMG][B][/CENTER][/B][/TD]
[TD][CENTER][IMG]http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r704/ChristianSteu/Belkar_01_zps77fa3d80.gif[/IMG][B][/CENTER][/B][/TD]
[TD][CENTER][IMG]http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r704/ChristianSteu/Belkar_05_zps6cb5e946.gif[/IMG][B][/CENTER][/B][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][CENTER][IMG]http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r704/ChristianSteu/Durkon_05_zps8122ebf4.gif[/IMG][B][/CENTER][/B][/TD]
[TD][CENTER][IMG]http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r704/ChristianSteu/Durkon_01_zps00df6cd0.gif[/IMG][B][/CENTER][/B][/TD]
[TD][CENTER][IMG]http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r704/ChristianSteu/Durkon_03_zps60507f68.gif[/IMG][B][/CENTER][/B][/TD]
[TD][CENTER][IMG]http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r704/ChristianSteu/Durkon_04_zps0e643130.gif[/IMG][B][/CENTER][/B][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][CENTER][IMG]http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r704/ChristianSteu/Elan_04_zps50a2a1f2.gif[/IMG][B][/CENTER][/B][/TD]
[TD][CENTER][IMG]http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r704/ChristianSteu/Elan_03_zps3b024274.gif[/IMG][B][/CENTER][/B][/TD]
[TD][CENTER][IMG]http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r704/ChristianSteu/Elan_05_zpsb5e62612.gif[/IMG][B][/CENTER][/B][/TD]
[TD][CENTER][IMG]http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r704/ChristianSteu/Durkon_02_zps23d063d2.gif[/IMG][B][/CENTER][/B][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][CENTER][IMG]http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r704/ChristianSteu/Elan_01_zps50f79653.gif[/IMG][B][/CENTER][/B][/TD]
[TD][CENTER][IMG]http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r704/ChristianSteu/Elan_06_zps7bb33cfb.gif[/IMG][B][/CENTER][/B][/TD]
[TD][CENTER][IMG]http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r704/ChristianSteu/Vaarsuvius_02_zps6a3d2018.gif[/IMG][B][/CENTER][/B][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Last edited by ChristianSt; 2014-02-21 at 10:50 AM.
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2014-02-21, 11:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Upcoming TABLE Code Changes
Based on what I saw yesterday, honestly, the buttons - there are several, actually - do a great job. You push the Create Table button, tell the dialog box how many rows and columns, what width, and what style of border (if any). It creates the table for you. There was a separate button that allowed you to manage the settings (width and border style). And then there were four more buttons: Insert Row Before, Insert Row After, then the same two for columns.
I know the bbcode looks daunting, but the tools available - at least on the site I played with for a bit - made it real easy to make and manage a table.John Ling
Frog God Games Lead Pathfinder Developer
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2014-02-21, 12:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Upcoming TABLE Code Changes
Used to be even easier, though. For me at least. {table], then [/table], done. {table=head] for a header. Automatic column sizing. Automatic table resizing. No having to tell it how many or use two sets of tags for every single item. I don't need customization; I just need to be able to go "whack, done" and not have to worry about going back to tweak settings because my original calibrations were off.
Anyway, it's moot if Dice comes through, but beyond that I don't see myself using tables anymore. I don't use them on any other site already because it's too much hassle.Need a place to hang? Like Discord? Don't mind dealing with a capricious demon lord? Then you're welcome to join our LGBTQ+ friendly, often silly, very geeky server to discuss food, music, video games, tabletop, and much more.
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