Goblins XIV: Clerical Omission.

[Divayth Fyr]

With Thunt, it was "Bad stuff happened, comics are on delay." then it was "Bad stuff happened, I'll explain what soon^tm." then it was "This is not an explanation, but one is coming very soon^tm." and THEN, it was "Still not explaining anything, but have a drawing."

Arguably it was even worse since he gave a timeframe for an explanation, then moved that - twice - only to say "I'm going to sleep, here is a part of a drawing".

It is understandable with what we learned later but at that point it didn't help to improve his image.

[BannedInSchool]

We've got some vague hints that imply some sort of mental breakdown, but unless I'm missing something buried under everything else in the twit box, that's all it is... Vague hints and assumptions.

It might have been on the Goblins forum, but somewhere THunt did say he had lost forty pounds over the three weeks, and Danielle recorded him sleeping seven hours in the past ~70 hours (at the time), or numbers around that IIRC.

[Lord Torath]

Please see the bit about not knowing how long it takes to heal depression. I'm certain Thunt thought he could make those deadlines, or even that they might galvanize him to action. And each day he tells himself he'll get it posted that day, so there's no real reason to change that "soon." And then suddenly it's been 4 weeks since that "soon,", but he knows he's going to get it up today, and it won't matter once he posts it...

And so here we are.

[BannedInSchool]

And each day he tells himself he'll get it posted that day, so there's no real reason to change that "soon." And then suddenly it's been 4 weeks since that "soon,", but he knows he's going to get it up today, and it won't matter once he posts it...

I'd imagine the expected reaction from the Internet to the delay being "You're bad and should feel bad!" wasn't helping.

[Gez]

I'd imagine the expected reaction from the Internet to the delay being "You're bad and should feel bad!" wasn't helping.

I don't think this would count as being a "Unicron-sized ball of support" so I don't think Thunt has been overwhelmed by negative feedback yet.

[BannedInSchool]

I don't think this would count as being a "Unicron-sized ball of support" so I don't think Thunt has been overwhelmed by negative feedback yet.

I meant to suppose that's the reaction he himself could have been expecting from an announcement of a delay. Guess I missed a subjunctive in there.

[Suvar]

I don't think this would count as being a "Unicron-sized ball of support" so I don't think Thunt has been overwhelmed by negative feedback yet.

Yeah, his fans do a pretty good job of insulating him from that.

(Sigh). That was kind of petty and mean-spirited, but he recently hopped on the forums to ridicule and then ban a user who had been critical of the silence. And then everyone there congratulated him on it, telling him how "awesome" they thought it was. The more I think about it, the more it seems like he has a toxic relationship with a bunch of his fans - it's like they enable bad behavior.

[Ravenlord]

I think that's almost natural. Most fan-forums tend to invite folks who are overwhelmingly positive about the subject - with them being, you know... fans. With so many like-minded people, echo-chamber effects are only to be expected.

[Hazuki]

Natural and expected behavior, yes. But that doesn't make it any less unhealthy.

[Lissou]

I went to look at the Goblins forum when I read this, because it doesn't sound like Tarol to ban someone simply because they disagree. I found this post he made to answer the concerns you mention. It should answer your questions.

(Hopefully I linked to the right post. I've almost never been to the new Goblins forums and it's my first time linking to them).

[BannedInSchool]

Well what would be the response around here if someone "registered just to say" that Rich has ruined TOotS because it's not funny anymore, which was what made the bad art tolerable? That's not an attack but just a simple statement of fact, right?

[Loreweaver15]

Well what would be the response around here if someone "registered just to say" that Rich has ruined TOotS because it's not funny anymore, which was what made the bad art tolerable? That's not an attack but just a simple statement of fact, right?

We don't need to theorize; it happens with exasperating regularity :P

[Janus]

Yeah, his fans do a pretty good job of insulating him from that.

(Sigh). That was kind of petty and mean-spirited, but he recently hopped on the forums to ridicule and then ban a user who had been critical of the silence. And then everyone there congratulated him on it, telling him how "awesome" they thought it was. The more I think about it, the more it seems like he has a toxic relationship with a bunch of his fans - it's like they enable bad behavior.

*looks at the Goblins forums*
Oh, for the luvva...

[Hazuki]

Well what would be the response around here if someone "registered just to say" that Rich has ruined TOotS because it's not funny anymore, which was what made the bad art tolerable? That's not an attack but just a simple statement of fact, right?

I would suppose that Rich would respond sensibly and with a firm hand. As he does with many posters.

And if he did try to insult them, he'd be more witty than changing Brass to Ass.

[SaintRidley]

Well what would be the response around here if someone "registered just to say" that Rich has ruined TOotS because it's not funny anymore, which was what made the bad art tolerable? That's not an attack but just a simple statement of fact, right?

Rich would probably not attack the person with vitriol but give a measured, if slightly sarcastic response pointing out that he doesn't make the comic to fit other people's wants and desires but his own. If that doesn't work for them, they can stop reading. He also doesn't usually ban people making critiques of that nature unless they continue doing it incessantly and become belligerent.

In fact, I know that's how he would do it because that's how he always does it.

Thunt's free to conduct his forum however he wishes, though. But I don't think the analogy holds.

[Lissou]

RHe also doesn't usually ban people making critiques of that nature unless they continue doing it incessantly and become belligerent.

That's exactly what happened. The user had received a warning and ignored it, and been insulting for a long time. He definitely qualified both as continuing incessantly and being belligerent. To my knowledge, in the eight years or so I've read the comic, over at least two different forums, that's the only person he's ever banned, despite many people being critical of him. You're making it sound like he bans whoever says something he doesn't agree with.

[Anteros]

Well, the important thing is that Thunt seems to be doing better. We can disagree on whether the situation was handled as good as possible, but hopefully we can all agree that his well being comes first.

Honestly, if it's the comic putting this type of level on his mental health, he should probably give it up. It sucks if it has to end this way...but your health has to come first.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

And the countdown timer is counting down! Let's see if Thunt is back in business in 4 days.

[Divayth Fyr]

And the countdown timer is counting down! Let's see if Thunt is back in business in 4 days.

For some reason I'm more curious about his ability to finally post the blog.

[Vinyadan]

Well, there's an update: the full gore image from twitter.

I hope we'll get back to Goblins soon.

At the same time, I can't but think about the need of side projects for an author. I couldn't work on a single thing like that for years. I need to take some time off, work on something else, and then come back refreshened.

[Daywalker1983]

Well, there's an update: the full gore image from twitter.

I hope we'll get back to Goblins soon.

At the same time, I can't but think about the need of side projects for an author. I couldn't work on a single thing like that for years. I need to take some time off, work on something else, and then come back refreshened.

But he does, doesn't he? That pencil drawing stuff...his donations drive stuff doesn't count I guess...

Someone said something about the comic taking a toll on him...what would be his alternative? Does anyone know what he did before goblins?

I think it'd be hard if the thing he says he loves doing is impossible for him...working at Taco Bell really seems a lot worse.

Someone called THunt a woobie, and I think that is all there is to say. I hope the best for him, but reading his posts and other stuff, I can see him digging his hole deeper and deeper...he is just one of those people, who to a certain group of other people can only do wrong.

[Cuthalion]

It's... a good drawing...

[Hazuki]

Someone called THunt a woobie, and I think that is all there is to say. I hope the best for him, but reading his posts and other stuff, I can see him digging his hole deeper and deeper...he is just one of those people, who to a certain group of other people can only do wrong.

It's not as black and white as you're making it out to be.

[Nettlekid]

I feel really weird about this image that he's just put up. Something about it, in my mind (which I know doesn't count for anything with regard to how the artist feels and all that) cheapens the entirety of his mental struggle. Like, I can appreciate an out-of-the-blue mental breakdown, panic attacks, and being overwhelmed by stress. In the modern world that is a serious affliction and should be treated with the same severity as physical ailments. I agree with above posters that the bleak cutoff from the fans and then trickling back in wasn't the most effective way to deal with it, but it seems to have managed.

But then this is like...He write Goblins day in and day out, full of this exact same stuff. The gore and the "spookreepy monstar doin' blood stuff" and all the attempts at visceral shocks are the same as he uses in his comic. If he was having a mental breakdown (I assume because of the comic, or at least with regard to matters related to it) then spending I can only imagine a large part of his recovery drawing the exact same thing can't really have helped matters, right? Look at it, it's a huge picture with close detail, the weird over-shading that I don't like so much but whatever, which must have taken him a long time. He must have had a breakdown and then almost immediately sat down to draw that. That can't have been helpful, and horrendously selfish though it may be I did find myself thinking "So if you were able to draw that, why not a few pencil drawings/sketches of the next few pages you missed last month?"

I also think that using his own monster (or something very similar to it) cheapens the effect. Like yeah, we remember Mr. Fingers from the dungeon, we know it was there to look totes scary and stuff, so y'know, give it a rest? There's so much of the gore and shock tactics that I don't feel like it's a genuine cathartic means of relieving his stress instead of something he made so people would be impressed when he got back, like "Ooh look at the monsters you have in your mind." If he likes drawing and that would have soothed him, then by all means draw what he wants and then not share it on the internet because it's personal and private to him and his mind, not something to be gawked at. For him to put this up means he wants acknowledgement and discussion about it. And, overly critical and unfair may be it of me to say this, but I'm going to agree with previous posters and say that does feel kind of attention-seeking.

[Neoriceisgood]

But then this is like...He write Goblins day in and day out, full of this exact same stuff. The gore and the "spookreepy monstar doin' blood stuff" and all the attempts at visceral shocks are the same as he uses in his comic. If he was having a mental breakdown (I assume because of the comic, or at least with regard to matters related to it) then spending I can only imagine a large part of his recovery drawing the exact same thing can't really have helped matters, right? Look at it, it's a huge picture with close detail, the weird over-shading that I don't like so much but whatever, which must have taken him a long time. He must have had a breakdown and then almost immediately sat down to draw that. That can't have been helpful, and horrendously selfish though it may be I did find myself thinking "So if you were able to draw that, why not a few pencil drawings/sketches of the next few pages you missed last month?"

I also think that using his own monster (or something very similar to it) cheapens the effect. Like yeah, we remember Mr. Fingers from the dungeon, we know it was there to look totes scary and stuff, so y'know, give it a rest? There's so much of the gore and shock tactics that I don't feel like it's a genuine cathartic means of relieving his stress instead of something he made so people would be impressed when he got back, like "Ooh look at the monsters you have in your mind." If he likes drawing and that would have soothed him, then by all means draw what he wants and then not share it on the internet because it's personal and private to him and his mind, not something to be gawked at. For him to put this up means he wants acknowledgement and discussion about it. And, overly critical and unfair may be it of me to say this, but I'm going to agree with previous posters and say that does feel kind of attention-seeking.

As someone who does a comic himself I wanna throw in my own two cents here, as I can relate.

first of all regarding the monster; From what I've seen of Thunt's art I'm pretty sure that's just how he draws monsters. Nothing against the guy, but his stylistic variation doesn't seem all that wide. I wouldn't look too deeply into that part.


Regarding why he could draw this versus drawing his comic in particular, I don't know the exact reasons behind his breakdown but I do know that there's a lot of different pressures & motivations associated with drawing different types of things. Audience expectations aside (which can be a huge factor) doing a story-driven comic requires a lot of pre-planning and consideration. From the stuff I've heard Thunt say near the end of the maze-of-many he was really looking forward to the moment Minmax's party encountered the Goblins again. Maybe the buildup to that moment and finally reaching it broke something in him? When writing a lineair story you're usually building up towards some sort of climax or resolution which comes with big disadvantages, like not really being able to draw "what you want to draw" as each page needs to be a logical follow up to the previous one.

Personally I'm using a buffer for my own work, which gives me a lot of distance from what's currently going on. But back in my old comic I've had pages I was proud of/personally very happy with get pretty negative fan feedback, which did sometimes affect my willingness to create new pages very negatively. Did this outright kill my motivation to just draw something, even if it was similar to my comic? Not at all, largely because anything stressful/demotivating was directly tied to the story I was telling, not to my art in general.

Obviously we know very little about what's up with Thunt exactly, but I know there's a huge difference in the underlying motivation between "I gotta keep producing a page for my comic, 2-3 times a week, every week, for years to come." and "I wanna just draw an amazing picture that explains how I feel." (though personally I'd be far too lazy to ever try that second one myself.)

[Killer Angel]

Well, there's an update: the full gore image from twitter.

It's... twisted. Evilly twisted.

[BannedInSchool]

IIRC, THunt said he was drawing that at the peak of his three-week no-eating freak-out, so asking why he didn't draw the comic is like, I dunno, asking why Tom Hanks didn't just call home instead while stranded on the island if he had that free time to build the raft.

[Draconi Redfir]

also that's nor mr. fingers. Not nearly enough hands, arms, fingers, and it has teeth. Mr fingers has well... fingers.

this is an arm monster, not a finger monster.

[BannedInSchool]

this is an arm monster, not a finger monster.

...that lurks inside your teddy bear, waiting to erupt and eat your brain when you're looking away.

[ThirdEmperor]

also that's nor mr. fingers. Not nearly enough hands, arms, fingers, and it has teeth. Mr fingers has well... fingers.

this is an arm monster, not a finger monster.

Remember, Mr. Fingers was a minor version of whatever he was.


And on the subject of the drawing and how it looks like other things he's done.. Whatever? I mean, look at his comic. There's a lot of gore, rape and monstrosity that doesn't need to be there, but is because... well, because Thunt's drawing it. Considering he just had a mental breakdown, it doesn't seem that unusual to me to say that maybe the guy has some bad experiences in his life and they occasionally boil over into his work?