Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. II: It's A Magical Thread

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Skye the Perfect bats her wonderful eyelashes at him. Overwhelmed by his love for her he betrays

Not sure why people get so worked up about Skye - I've seen much worse Mary Sues, and her competence is at about the same level of every other main character. But hey, if it helps, MovieBob did mention this week [warning, spoilers for last episode, plus unbridled speculation] that there is a certain superhero who has as one of her powers to generate Mary-Sue pheromone fields that makes everyone like her.

GW

[ryuplaneswalker]

When AoS started months ago there was one critique that I couldn't really avoid thinking about, namely how ponderously black & white the show was. I saw Skye, a member of a anarchistic hacker community as a direct analogy for Anonymous and Wikileaks in the Marvel Universe, more or less learn to follow the rules and don't complain because super-spies know what's best ultimately... and even that theme was thinly developed only to be removed completely with learning Skye was just looking for her parents and broader identity issues and didn't really care about all that freedom of information stuff. The show took any opportunity for conflict and really just tucked it under the rug indifferently, but more importantly I simply don't think a covert intelligence organization as definitive white hats gelled with reality with everything we've learned from the last ten years and just made everything dull in the way Marvel comics as a whole avoids. Hell, even James Bond has gotten more self aware than that, and it spent decades as an abysmally one-dimensional power fantasy.

I felt the opposite on that, when Skye was first Introduced my first thought was "Oh god we are doing this, another little guy hacker against the biiiiggg bad goverment, who will be inevitably proven right that the secret agency is EVIIIILLL MC ECVIIILL cause conspiracy and MURKA IS EVIL! (despite SHIELD not really being american in this continuity...atleast not really...maybe they are not really clear on it honestly)"

Now they technically are doing that, however it

A. Make sense in that Zola DID jump sides under duress and it would be in character for Zola to rebuild Hydra as he did (technically they did build Hydra as a secret organization within the Nazi party, so really Hydra may have predated the Nazis themselves like they do in the comics)

B. Looking back, it was foreshadowed like you would not believe (phase 2 weapons anyone?)

[Kitten Champion]

I felt the opposite on that, when Skye was first Introduced my first thought was "Oh god we are doing this, another little guy hacker against the biiiiggg bad goverment, who will be inevitably proven right that the secret agency is EVIIIILLL MC ECVIIILL cause conspiracy and MURKA IS EVIL! (despite SHIELD not really being american in this continuity...atleast not really...maybe they are not really clear on it honestly)"

There are plenty of interesting themes and conflicts to explore when examining the post-9/11 State intelligence and security apparatus which needn't be reduced to such a simplistic worldview. This can be done without attacking America... which as this is ABC and the main character Philip Coulson, wasn't that likely.

The point is to have an outsider character with a fundamentally different viewpoint to provide conflict and elicit thoughtful discourse. To provide the audience with... well, something. Anything more stimulating than bland melodrama. Simultaneously, it could express the character's intellect and give them depth as people by having them have opinions and positions outside of what they do and their thin characterization which the pilot provided.

Skye's character really got reduced from someone with a legitimate moral position and deep passion to pursue it, to a lost girl looking for her parents. Her brief betrayal was for a man, not an ideal or wider ethical framework - granted it tied into her eventual arc of yearning for a family after having it robbed from her all her life by mysterious circumstances - but it was part of the show's persistent attempt to create sympathy for the character rather than actually growing to respect her as a multifaceted person.

[ryuplaneswalker]

There are plenty of interesting themes and conflicts to explore when examining the post-9/11 State intelligence and security apparatus which needn't be reduced to such a simplistic worldview. This can be done without attacking America.

Yeah there is, hilariously we saw the same character...and saw it going in the exact opposite directions and both rolled our eyes....and we were both kinda right, Skye learned that not everything should be free knowledge..and Coulson learned that maybe super secret spy agencies with no oversight are not a great idea.


and in terms of "Skye is not a Multifaceted person with motivations"

None of these characters outside of Coulson really were before the whole Hydra thing.

Skye generic hacker female who is obviously supposed to be the POV character to explain complex things to.

Ward is generic white Hoora Soldier dude

Fitzsimmons were smart person (really they were effectively a singular person till the train job) with no social skills

May was Awesome Action girl (because that is NOT at all a generic stereotype 2 decades after buffy)

[BRC]

Okay, am I the only one whose noticed that they seem to awkwardly use the phrase "Agent of Shield" instead of "Shield Agent".

Like, I get that it's the name of the show, but it comes across as a little bit forced.

[Joran]

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Regarding Ward/Skye: I have a feeling that Skye's line about Ward not teaching her how to withstand torture is going to turn out to be prophetic.

Great catch. I know the Whedons love to subvert expectations, but the conventional plotline would go as follows:

Spoiler: Predictions

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Next episode: Ward gets found out, takes Skye hostage, GTFOs and brings her to Garrett.
The episode after that: Skye is tortured by Garrett, testing Ward's loyalty. Bus comes to save Skye, Ward remains behind, but has his loyalty shaken.

[Sith_Happens]

By the way, Over Enthusiastic Hydra Goon is my favorite unnamed character in the series.

Did anyone else immediately pause the show and look up whether he was played by the same guy as Steve Holt from Arrested Development, or was that just me?

[Thrudd]

Did anyone else immediately pause the show and look up whether he was played by the same guy as Steve Holt from Arrested Development, or was that just me?

LOL "SteveHolt!" I mean "Hydra!"

[SeeDarkly_X]

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... I thought the dude at Providence was Stark's bodyguard for awhile.

Finally, oh my god mysterious metal panel on Garret WHAT COULD MEAN?????

He does look incredibly familiar, doesn't he? I feel like he's someone I'm supposed to know.

I was wondering if anyone else saw that

Spoiler: Garret put on another turtleneck

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piece of armor covering a portion of his waist.

As for Patton Oswald, you might have recognized him from Dollhouse, where Whedon used him for a couple episodes... but he has not been present in the MCU otherwise until now. Stark's bodyguard, Happy, was a different chubby guy named Jon Favreau... you know.. the director of Iron Man. :P

Also had a hard time remembering the guy Garret mentioned

Spoiler: in the fridge...

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Johnny Horton, with the "lion paws"... That's the Griffin! HA!

[LaZodiac]

I was wondering if anyone else saw that

Spoiler: Garret put on another turtleneck

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piece of armor covering a portion of his waist.

As for Patton Oswald, you might have recognized him from Dollhouse, where Whedon used him for a couple episodes... but he has not been present in the MCU otherwise until now. Stark's bodyguard, Happy, was a different chubby guy named Jon Favreau... you know.. the director of Iron Man. :P

Also had a hard time remembering the guy Garret mentioned

Spoiler: in the fridge...

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Johnny Horton, with the "lion paws"... That's the Griffin! HA!

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I really do wonder what that metal panel could be. Wouldn't it be HILARIOUS if it turns out that Garret becomes MODOK anyway, thus fulfilling all the people saying "Clairvoyent is Modok"?

Also, who is the Griffin? I don't know comics much D:. Sounds funny though.

[Reverent-One]

So apparently they've started releasing posters for each episode starting at "Turn, Turn, Turn" and will continue to do so until the end of the season.

Spoiler: Turn, Turn, Turn

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Spoiler: Providence

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Spoiler: Next week's epsiode: The Only Light in The Darkness

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Well, so the Cellist has some significance again, huh?

[SeeDarkly_X]

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I really do wonder what that metal panel could be. Wouldn't it be HILARIOUS if it turns out that Garret becomes MODOK anyway, thus fulfilling all the people saying "Clairvoyent is Modok"?

Also, who is the Griffin? I don't know comics much D:. Sounds funny though.

Spoiler: No Mo & The B-Lister

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Nah, not MODOK... really there are few reasonable ways they can pull off MODOK without it just looking goofy. IMO anyway.

As for Griffin... essentially a b-list villain, but has been around since the 70's. Most recently active as a member of The Hood's gang, pre-Siege.

[Athaniar]

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By the way, Over Enthusiastic Hydra Goon is my favorite unnamed character in the series.

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I'm pretty sure his name was Kaminsky.

[TheEmerged]

Spoiler: No Mo & The B-Lister

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Nah, not MODOK... really there are few reasonable ways they can pull off MODOK without it just looking goofy. IMO anyway.

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I would counter that, if you pull off MODOK without it looking goofy, you haven't pulled off MODOK. Looking goofy but still being a legit threat is MODOK's stock in trade and part of why I'm a fan.

[Sith_Happens]

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I'm pretty sure his name was Kaminsky.

Spoiler: Kaminsky

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That's his last name. His first name is Overly Enthusiastic Hydra Goon.

[Athaniar]

Spoiler: Kaminsky

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That's his last name. His first name is Overly Enthusiastic Hydra Goon.

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Agreed, just like Coulson's is Agent.

[The New Bruceski]

There was marvelous B-plot to this episode, but it felt like it was all B-plot with no A-plot. I think it would have worked better had they done the 2-hour thing last week with the first airing of Turn Turn Turn, since it was all denouement for that episode and setting up the staging for the future.

And extra credit to non-stupid goons:

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"Agent Hand is doing everything she can to hold SHIELD together. Do you really want me to tell her to turn the plane around?"
"Yes sir, I do."

Didn't help them in the end, but it's a damn sight better than most goons do in media.

[HandofShadows]

So apparently they've started releasing posters for each episode starting at "Turn, Turn, Turn" and will continue to do so until the end of the season.

Spoiler: Turn, Turn, Turn

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Spoiler: Providence

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Spoiler: Next week's epsiode: The Only Light in The Darkness

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Well, so the Cellist has some significance again, huh?

Very cool. They look like different styles of comic book covers. "Turn Turn Turn" looks a lot like ones used "Nick Fury, Agent of Shield" from the late 1960's.

[TheOldCrow]

[QUOTE=The New Bruceski;17339717]There was marvelous B-plot to this episode, but it felt like it was all B-plot with no A-plot. I think it would have worked better had they done the 2-hour thing last week with the first airing of Turn Turn Turn, since it was all denouement for that episode and setting up the staging for the future.

Spoiler: Providence

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I really liked the juxtaposition of Team Garrett and Team Coulson and their divergent paths. Garrett's side is on the upswing, organizing, getting all the toys; Coulson's side is disintegrating and on the run, with limited supplies and leaking jet fuel. Garrett can deal with dissension and dissatisfaction in his ranks simply with bribery, because he does have all the toys and can give people like Raina and Quinn the material things they want. Coulson only has faith in an ideal and a set of coordinates that might be a trap, and a team that is starting to question his leadership. I thought it made a good contrast.

Did anyone else notice that Raina's lab had three bodies in it for experimentation with the T.A.H.I.T.I serums? Were those Hand and her men from the plane?

[LaZodiac]

Spoiler: Providence

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I really liked the juxtaposition of Team Garrett and Team Coulson and their divergent paths. Garrett's side is on the upswing, organizing, getting all the toys; Coulson's side is disintegrating and on the run, with limited supplies and leaking jet fuel. Garrett can deal with dissension and dissatisfaction in his ranks simply with bribery, because he does have all the toys and can give people like Raina and Quinn the material things they want. Coulson only has faith in an ideal and a set of coordinates that might be a trap, and a team that is starting to question his leadership. I thought it made a good contrast.

Did anyone else notice that Raina's lab had three bodies in it for experimentation with the T.A.H.I.T.I serums? Were those Hand and her men from the plane?

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...oh my god I think it was! I think we know how Hand's coming back, if she is

[Palanan]

So, another excellent episode, tautly paced and quite involving. I have to say, ever since B.A.D. G.U.Y.S. showed up, it's been a mini-cliffhanger every time.



First, the episode's best line:

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Which, as usual, goes to Coulson:

Coulson: --because nothing bad ever happens when you mess with something called "dark forces."

Followed closely by:

Jemma: The TARDIS!

I almost gave her a standing ovation for that one.

And...FINALLY!!!

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WE GET TO MEET THE CELLIST!!!

She's only existed as references until now, so it's great to see her as a character.

It vaguely makes sense that Coulson would've met her in the line of duty, but while this makes for a conveniently tight setup, it also reinforces the sense that S.H.I.E.L.D. agents have no life outside their work. I'd been hoping that Coulson might have met the cellist simply by going to one of her concerts, maybe mingling at an event or something. Alas, apparently S.H.I.E.L.D. agents don't mingle at events, unless those events involve Tony Stark.

As for Coulson not telling her that he's alive...it might have seemed overdone a couple of weeks ago, but considering that HYDRA is on the loose, keeping her in the dark is probably a good idea. Here's hoping that Garrett didn't read too deeply into Daniels' file, learn that his obsession was Coulson's Special Person, and show up at her door once Coulson's team is gone.

Alas, Poor Guest Star of the Week:

Spoiler: We Barely Knew Him

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Well, Koenig didn't last long, or Keurig, or whatever his name was. He was an annoying quasi-foil, to be sure--but now that he's gone, Coulson's team effectively has their own super-secret hideout, for which they've just been helpfully screened and cleared. (They even have lanyards!)

But of course, HYDRA knows where their super-secret hideout is, so it's more the Enemy Agent Revolving Door Hideout. But still. It was fun while it lasted.

My Favorite Guest Star Is Back:

Spoiler: ...And Does She Have Curves

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I love the boss little cruiser-jet that Garrett was originally flying, which Ward brought back to Providence and which Coulson's team is now using as their personal ride. Half Rutan, half Naboo, and all-over gorgeous.

But wow, Ward must have scrubbed that cargo hold with bleach. Here's hoping he did a better job than he did stowing Keurig in the closet.

Name-Dropping:

Spoiler: It's Who You Know

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I just about lost track of all the names they dropped in this one: Steve Rogers, Bruce Banner, and of course the obligatory Romanoff reference--half the Avengers at least. I'm sure I missed a couple more.

And, most intriguingly, the last line of the episode, which was apparently a reference to Maria Hill. She's been a little underused in the franchise so far--I know she showed up in Winter Soldier, but that's about it.

Mommy Dearest:

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I was not expecting to meet May's mother. She looks like she could break Ward with two fingers and an eyebrow.

And I loved the mother-daughter nagging: "Five hundred miles. You could've said thank you."

.

[Pex]

I'm sure Amy Acker is a fine actress. I had not seen "Angel" myself, her big break. I know actors loathe being typecast. She's just always going to be Root from "Person of Interest" to me. I don't like Root. I don't like they made her a semi-regular. I don't like they're spending so much time on metaplot falling into the trope of no longer being about what the show was originally and why I liked it in the first place. Amy Acker, actress, is unfortunately caught up in my rant about that she's forever Root. Having her play Coulson's beloved does not change that.

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I guess it's also official. Ward is on Team Evil, not a triple agent.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Pex

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I guess it's also official. Ward is on Team Evil, not a triple agent.

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Ward is absolutely officially on Team Evil. Until the next plot twist.

[LaZodiac]

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Ward is absolutely officially on Team Evil. Until the next plot twist.

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The next plot twist is going to be bullets into his sternum. Ward's firmly placed himself in "Gonna Die Villain" territory, far as I'm concerned. I genuinely want him to die. For good reasons.

So, I knew IMMEDIATELY that the Cellist mentioned would be Coulson's Cellist, but it's still fantastic. I approve of this.

And yes, the Dark Force line is amazing. Now, question, who is this dude in the comics?

[The New Bruceski]

Best lampshade of the episode goes to Skye's real name.

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Mary Sue Poots

[Giggling Ghast]

And yes, the Dark Force line is amazing. Now, question, who is this dude in the comics?

Blackout. Not to be confused with a similarily-named minor villain from Ghost Rider.



I remember him from the Avengers comics. Like in AoS, he's delusional and - despite being fairly powerful - mostly ineffectual as a result of his insanity. He was, however, instrumental in the storyline where Baron Zemo's Masters of Evil took over the Avengers mansion.

These were in the days when Monica Rambeau was with the Avengers - she really was, you know! - so he was basically a counter to her own power set.

[ryuplaneswalker]

So

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"Are you saying we are going to Hack the NSA" I guess SHIELD is pretty firmly NOT a pure American syndicate. Good, I am glad that is completely settled and we can stop the half hearted "ZOMG BIG BROTHER" stuff, I have no issue with those sorts of plots but this is not really the show to do it, minus the Hydra stuff but I would have liked a season of SHIELD being the good guys before we hit the grey area.

To Shake up the Status Quo you need to have one in the first place IMO.

Edit : Just gonna say, I love the effects in the episode, It is amazing how tv shows (Once Upon a Time, Agents of Shield) manage to know HOW to use CGI effectively and Movies have not.

[LaZodiac]

Best lampshade of the episode goes to Skye's real name.

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Mary Sue Poots

Oh my god you get fifty billion internets for noticing this. I love it when writers are in on the joke.

So

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"Are you saying we are going to Hack the NSA" I guess SHIELD is pretty firmly NOT a pure American syndicate. Good, I am glad that is completely settled and we can stop the half hearted "ZOMG BIG BROTHER" stuff, I have no issue with those sorts of plots but this is not really the show to do it, minus the Hydra stuff but I would have liked a season of SHIELD being the good guys before we hit the grey area.

To Shake up the Status Quo you need to have one in the first place IMO.

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I always thought it was obvious Shield was extra governmental. They worked under a World Council, not American council, after all.

[Joran]

Mommy Dearest:

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I was not expecting to meet May's mother. She looks like she could break Ward with two fingers and an eyebrow.

And I loved the mother-daughter nagging: "Five hundred miles. You could've said thank you."

.

I have a feeling I'm going to LOVE her. Just the right mix of sarcasm.

Also, Simmons continues not to be able to lie worth a crap.

Spoiler: license plates

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Any speculation about the importance of the license plates on Melinda's mom's car? She had Pennsylvania plates.

[ryuplaneswalker]

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I always thought it was obvious Shield was extra governmental. They worked under a World Council, not American council, after all.

They were not treated that way in the early going WAY back in Iron Man 1 where it was a Department of the federal government, and in Incredible Hulk where the US Military patches into SHIELD communications monitoring which is how, it was generally treated until Avengers where the "Invisible Council" showed up, so I figured "Okay they are a worldwide thing now, KK that makes a bit more sense honestly" THEN.....they go back to the "American Spying on people, Hackers must save us from the spies!" for the early episodes of the series.

I just wanted them to PICK something so I know which tired cliche to gripe about.