Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. II: It's A Magical Thread

[Pex]

While bashing any form of identity is not good; there is a world of difference between attacking those in a position of priviledge and attacking those who are not. While one is antagonistic; the other is subjugative. Now I didn't particularly enjoy the men are weak jokes. But had it been the opposite it would have been objectively worse.

Everyone is equal but some people are more equal than others.

[Sith_Happens]

Yeah, I wondered that too. At the beginning of Avengers, when Loki appears in the base, you can see bullets bouncing off of him.

That was Loki, so it could have been magic and/or the staff. There have been no other instances of a bullet contacting Asgardian skin for us to know. Their armor, on the other hand, is demonstrably bulletproof, seeing as Sif's breastplate took a shotgun blast at three to five feet and wasn't even scratched.

[Xondoure]

Everyone is equal but some people are more equal than others.

Not actually sure if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me here.

[Madwand]

That was Loki, so it could have been magic and/or the staff. There have been no other instances of a bullet contacting Asgardian skin for us to know.

Well, Thor took blast from Iron Man gauntlet and helmet in the face without single scratch. So yeah, Asgardians are bullet proof. On the other hand - if lazy and uninspired writers want to make plot work, why don't change power level and toughness ( "cough-Iron Man 3-cough*)?

[Sith_Happens]

Well, Thor took blast from Iron Man gauntlet and helmet in the face without single scratch.

Neither of those things are bullets though.

[LaZodiac]

Also it's THOR. He's not a good baseline for durability given he's one of the best.

[grolim]

And wields a rather epic weapon, that in Avengers he used to summon his armor. Sif may be among the best warriors, but Thor and Loki are royalty and have access to the "good stuff". Plus in the show the shogun did not hurt her armor but it DID damage the necklace so a close enough shot from an earth gun might probably not be fatal to an Asgardian it could hurt. But yeah why did SHIELD not just use swat tactics and pump tear gas grenades or stun grenades in and just shoot what/who comes out?

[Silver Swift]

I don't think we can make any statements about general asgardian durability based on Loki and Thor.

Spoiler: Spoilers for Thor 1 and the avengers

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Loki has significant magical powers and, in his most prominent appearance, was using one of the infinity gems as well as that sceptre thing. Also, remember that he isn't actually an Asgardian, he is a Yotun (is that the correct singular?) passing as an Asgardian through illusions.

Meanwhile, Thor is consistently shown to be much a more powerful threat than Sif and the other named Asgardian warriors, who are presumably some of the most powerful in the Asgardian military. I think it's reasonable to guess that that gap in power extends to durability as well.

Edit: As for Sif specifically dodging human gunfire, she probably doesn't know the specifics of human weaponry, but she knows that the last time a bunch of humans (and Thor, but still) went up against an Asgardian and his armies, they won. She is also not hindered by Loki's enormous ego, so better safe than sorry might play a large role as well.

[thorgrim29]

The berserker guy could crumple a combat knife with one hand as easily as if it was paper, and he was just some mason guy with no equipment

[LaZodiac]

The berserker guy could crumple a combat knife with one hand as easily as if it was paper, and he was just some mason guy with no equipment

He also got his chest torn open and had to have his heart pumped manually until his healing factor could kick in. And the person who did that wasn't even Asgardian, just a human blessed with overwhelming rage.

[Silver Swift]

The berserker guy could crumple a combat knife with one hand as easily as if it was paper, and he was just some mason guy with no equipment

That's strength though, not durability. We know the average Asgardian is a lot stronger than the average human. Still, Coulson seemed pretty sure a berserker rage enhanced Ward wouldn't be able to hurt him so, if we assume Coulson has a good idea of this kind of stuff, then it still counts for something.

[Asheram]

But yeah why did SHIELD not just use swat tactics and pump tear gas grenades or stun grenades in and just shoot what/who comes out?

I'm constantly perplexed by this. SHIELD is supposed to be The Best of The Best of the 1%. Not mall cops who can be swayed with words.

My immersion is not so much broken over the science or the enemies as the gorram stupid decisions of the team. They're professionals (well, everyone except Sky) and Coulson is supposed to be the meanest guy around aside from Director Fury.

[Sapphire Guard]

The show probably doesn't have the effects budget for helicopter tear gas attacks. And the damage to the Asgardian was done with an Asgardian weapon.

[thorgrim29]

That's strength though, not durability.

The fact that his hand wasn't cut is durability though.

[Friv]

As far as durability goes - inside the bar, Sif took a point-blank shotgun blast to the side without so much as flinching; it did mainly hit her armor, though.

[Cikomyr]

And wields a rather epic weapon, that in Avengers he used to summon his armor. Sif may be among the best warriors, but Thor and Loki are royalty and have access to the "good stuff". Plus in the show the shogun did not hurt her armor but it DID damage the necklace so a close enough shot from an earth gun might probably not be fatal to an Asgardian it could hurt. But yeah why did SHIELD not just use swat tactics and pump tear gas grenades or stun grenades in and just shoot what/who comes out?

I don't see Odin send Sif on this super-special mission without the proper equipment. It's not like if Sif was just another random Asgardian Warrior; she's one of the Realm's champion and sister in arms of Thor himself.

Especially considering Odin's recent character development, which would make him even more considered of properly outfitting his loyal soldiers.

[Silver Swift]

Especially considering Odin's recent character development, which would make him even more considered of properly outfitting his loyal soldiers.

If you're talking about the "character development" I think you're talking about, then I don't get why that would make him more likely to give one of Thor's most loyal friends better stuff. Cause she may talk big about her duty but given the choice between following Odins orders and her friendship to Thor, I don't think there is much doubt where her loyalties lie.

The fact that his hand wasn't cut is durability though.

Fair enough, but I'd still say tanking a gunshot is a bigger feat than that, durability wise.

[Cikomyr]

If you're talking about the "character development" I think you're talking about, then I don't get why that would make him more likely to give one of Thor's most loyal friends better stuff. Cause she may talk big about her duty but given the choice between following Odins orders and her friendship to Thor, I don't think there is much doubt where her loyalties lie.

Because Odin more than understand the importance of generating loyalty to him by approaching all of his key warrior on a 1 on 1 basis.

Like... for example, assigning Sif to a mission that she had clear personal stake in, and giving her your full support so she would remember how wise/generous you are as a leader. Despite the actress' sub-par acting, it was rather clear that Sif was rather happy to be the one assigned to capture back the sorceress.

Also, Odin's deeper motive would be clearly better served by making sure Sif accomplish her mission thoroughly, and that she is not forced to just kill the sorceress in the end.

[huttj509]

So, Sif's been fighting across the realms, on many different worlds, against different levels of tech.

Is it worth overriding your safety reflexes just because you happen to be in a fight where stuff's less likely to harm you? Especially if Lorelei happened to bring/make something more potent with her?

[Petrocorus]

Despite the actress' sub-par acting, it was rather clear that Sif was rather happy to be the one assigned to capture back the sorceress.

As i recall, she was not acting so badly in her previous appearance in the two Thor movies. Is this a counter-performance on her part? Or was she better directed in the movies?

[LaZodiac]

As i recall, she was not acting so badly in her previous appearance in the two Thor movies. Is this a counter-performance on her part? Or was she better directed in the movies?

I think it was just better directing in the part of the Thor movies. Maybe she's just good with movies, but bad with TV?

[Cikomyr]

As i recall, she was not acting so badly in her previous appearance in the two Thor movies. Is this a counter-performance on her part? Or was she better directed in the movies?

I said it was subpar. Not "so badly"

She was very well written. It's just.. I don't know. Sif was Stif?

[Sith_Happens]

The fact that his hand wasn't cut is durability though.

It's not hard for a human to grip a blade without cutting themself, so I see no reason why an Asgardian should have trouble catching one that's actually moving based purely on that same principle.

[Cikomyr]

It's not hard for a human to grip a blade without cutting themself, so I see no reason why an Asgardian should have trouble catching one that's actually moving based purely on that same principle.

Yhea, but a blade trust by Ward?

He'd know how to jab without the possibility of it being caught.

[Silver Swift]

Because Odin more than understand the importance of generating loyalty to him by approaching all of his key warrior on a 1 on 1 basis.

Like... for example, assigning Sif to a mission that she had clear personal stake in, and giving her your full support so she would remember how wise/generous you are as a leader. Despite the actress' sub-par acting, it was rather clear that Sif was rather happy to be the one assigned to capture back the sorceress.

Also, Odin's deeper motive would be clearly better served by making sure Sif accomplish her mission thoroughly, and that she is not forced to just kill the sorceress in the end.

Okay, now I'm confused. Do you realize that

Spoiler: Thor 2 ending

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Odin has been replaced by Loki? Because while all these actions make some sense for Loki, I think his priority would be more along the lines of getting rid of Thors friends before his charade inevitably fails, definitely not spending resources to make them harder to kill.

I recognize that it is entirely possible that you did realize this and you were talking about Loki in the above post, in which case, sorry for the misunderstanding.

Edit: As for Sif's acting, I think it is mostly the clash between the semi futuristic SHIELD and the medieval Asgardians, those things are always hard to do non-awkwardly.

[Cikomyr]

Okay, now I'm confused. Do you realize that

Spoiler: Thor 2 ending

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Odin has been replaced by Loki? Because while all these actions make some sense for Loki, I think his priority would be more along the lines of getting rid of Thors friends before his charade inevitably fails, definitely not spending resources to make them harder to kill.

I recognize that it is entirely possible that you did realize this and you were talking about Loki in the above post, in which case, sorry for the misunderstanding.

Spoiler

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Yes, I realize Odin has been replaced by Loki. That's my point when I mentionned "character development".

And I don't think that Loki is planning on his charade failing. In fact, he's probably rebuilding Odin's trust-based with Asgard's main champions on a 1 on 1 basis. This is probably to eventually isolate Thor from his group of friends. If they each have their reason to trust Odin's judgement as a wise leader, they might hesitate to side with their friend with the eventual Thor/Odin disagreement.

Basically, Loki is undermining Thor's power base among Asgard's champions. He weaves his web, and props Odin as a more... pleasing leader. Which would make sense for everyone, now that Thor has officially renounced the throne. I'd figure Odin had stepped back and allowed his son to build his leadership in preparation for his eventually accession to the throne, but now that it's no longer an option, Odin had to step back.

[Dragonexx]

I just had a thought. Maybe Lorelei will be involved in Thor 3 somehow, and this was just an early cameo for her.

[Cheesegear]

Can Lorelai be Enchantress somehow?
Can Sif be Valkyrie somehow?

Can Thor and Captain America fight Hel(a)'s armies for Valkyrie's soul?

Can my dreams come true?

[Thrawn183]

I love how Coulson makes such a big deal that two guys died to protect TAHITI because it was important it be protected.

Yeah, you murdered two guys doing their (very important) jobs.

[LaZodiac]

Well to be fair TAHITI was also destroyed in the resulting explosion, so the secret dies with them.