LGBTAIitp # 49: Please check all baggage before boarding the Rainbow Rail Road

[Astrella]

@Lentrax; no, **** that. You being comfortable with yourself is not "being selfish or asinine".

[lord pringle]

@Lentrax; no, **** that. You being comfortable with yourself is not "being selfish or asinine".

I'm going to have to agree here. You're an awesome person, and you shouldn't get mad at yourself for wanting to be the awesome chick you feel like.

[Lentrax]

I have to make this decision the way I have.

I can't let what I want hurt the ones I love.

I can't destroy everything I have for a chance at being happy.

My life has been torment and suffering. I see no reason for it not to continue that way. I see no way for it to have anything in it that is not bleak and desolate.

My soul aches at what should have been, could have been.

My soul is broken.

I am broken.

[SiuiS]

I have to agree with Lena. I can respect your right to make a choice, but I don't believe the choice is correct. Life continues after your life is over. Wounds heal. Breaks mend. It is better to have a clean fracture and let it knit than to prolong the wound – even a wound of the soul – to let others stagnate.


But that doesn't matter. What matters is you. Your health. Your well being. What matters is putting on your oxygen mask first so you can survive long enough to help others. If you truly believe that self sacrifice is the best way to do this, then I wish you all the success in the world.


In all matters may you find good roads, however wise the journey.


In the meanwhile, I'll be seeing to my own hypocrisy.

[Lentrax]

I cannot survive.

I died long ago, next to a bed in a hospital.

I should have buried myself with her...

[SiuiS]

Care to talk about it?

[Lentrax]

If I weren't going to bed, I would.

And if you weren't about to have your filly, I would ask.

But well, I'll prolly be talking on skype eventually.

Can't avoid all of you forever can I?
I wonder where I can get a glorious solar desk to hide under...

[Selpharia]

I have to make this decision the way I have.

I can't let what I want hurt the ones I love.

I can't destroy everything I have for a chance at being happy.

My life has been torment and suffering. I see no reason for it not to continue that way. I see no way for it to have anything in it that is not bleak and desolate.

My soul aches at what should have been, could have been.

My soul is broken.

I am broken.

Lentrax, I've said those same things to myself, and here are the responses given by that stubborn part of my brain that refuses to surrender to the eminent logic of despair.

1) But you can let what you think they want destroy you? How is that reasonable, right, fair, or good? Why allow other people to have hold over you, without even the confidence that they love something more than external appearances?

2) If what you have doesn't make you happy, what is it worth?

3) There's no reason it should continue that way either.

4) Well, with broken things, there are two choices: you can let them stay broken, or you can try to paste them back together even a little. Only one of these options has any chance of making anything less broken. Even if it doesn't work, he worst you'll get is what you have already.

Whether or not that's helpful, I wish you the best.*hugs*

[Miriel]

I won't be coming back here to this thread when the forums return.

I will always be available by PM, and on Skype(when I remember to sign in.)

I am sorry, but it just hurts too much to see everyone here able to do what they want, be who they can.

I have to sacrifice who I am so I can make everyone happy again. I have to make the decision that isn't being selfish or asinine. I have to live a lie that others may live without fear that I will abandon them on the side of the road of life.

I love you all, and hope that your lives are able to become everything you ever wish for, and that you find the happiness you all deserve.

I will remember you all fondly, and wish you all the very best in your life's pursuits.

Signing off for the last time.

~Lentrax~

... Oh What's happened?

I hope you will feel better and come back. And I especially hope you will be able to do what you want, be who you can. You don't have to sacrifice yourself... *hug*

EDIT: Oh, other page.

I have to make this decision the way I have.

I can't let what I want hurt the ones I love.

I can't destroy everything I have for a chance at being happy.

My life has been torment and suffering. I see no reason for it not to continue that way. I see no way for it to have anything in it that is not bleak and desolate.

My soul aches at what should have been, could have been.

My soul is broken.

I am broken.

That's not the right way you put it.

Transition -> you risk some problems with family and such, + some discrimination, which may or may not destroy everything you have (but it most likely won't).
No transition -> you are absolutely certain you will not be happy.
I mean, sure, both decisions can be valid, but you're not certain to "destroy" anything if you transition. The only certainty is that you won't be happy.

Saying that what you want "hurts your loved ones" is wrong. If they disagree with who you are and wish to stop you, they are hurting who they love. You're not doing anything to anyone but you.

You don't have to live a life of torment and suffering. No one has to.

@Everyone: Seeing as the forum is going down for a week, and the IRC looks to have been abandoned long ago, does anyone want me to set up q Quicktopic (basically, a private message board available only to those who have the link) for those of us who post here? Obviously it'd be less private than public, given we'd be posting the link here so we don't miss anyone, but the point is that we'd be able to keep talking through the downtime.

Of course this is probably a terrible idea and I'm going to be shouted out of the thread for asking, but oh well. :x

I think it's a good idea, in fact.

[Karen Lynn]

Lentrax, life is short, and experienced once at a time. Live for you. Do what you need for your happiness. Sometimes, you need to be selfish. Sometimes, you have to care about only yourself. If you lose your marriage, so what? Examine it. Analyze it. Is a prolonged relationship in which you torment yourself for another's happiness truly worth it?i

[Mina Kobold]

I have to make this decision the way I have.

If the decision can still be made, then it can be made more than one way. I do not decry your right to choose, but things are always changing and there will always be the possibility that things can change for the better.

I can't let what I want hurt the ones I love.

I can't destroy everything I have for a chance at being happy.

And neither can they let what they want hurt you, if they also love you. What about you being you would cause them harm? It cannot cause physical harm and only a person's own hatred and bigotry can make it harm their mind. What you want is not to take something from others or cause something to others, it is quite literally not going to do a thing to them other than expose them to you being a non-threatening Lentrax who exists and isn't lying.

What will you destroy by taking a chance to be happy? You will not destroy your friendship with us, and I certainly hope it will not get you thrown out on the street or killed (if those are legitimate consequences, I deeply apologise m(_ _)m ). I know it is hypocritical of me, who is scared of the stress of having to come out to one person, but I do not believe either of us would lose everything by trying to be happy. Especially when everything you have is based on being forced to choose unhappiness.

My life has been torment and suffering. I see no reason for it not to continue that way. I see no way for it to have anything in it that is not bleak and desolate.

Suffering means that something is wrong and is hurting you. That alone is reason enough to discontinue it. If you burn your hand, you do not need to have any reason beyond the suffering of the burn to move it, and anyone who forces you to keep it on the burning surface is being cruel. Your life does not have to be bleak, even if it kept the entire world happy. You are no less worthy of not suffering than anyone else.

I am broken.

We do not discard people as broken. You are still our friend and still worthy of happiness no matter what, you are not a broken toy to be replaced.

I'm sorry that I really come off as forceful here, and I do not mean that you cannot choose to keep things as they are, but you say that you have no choice, that you have to do it one way, and I do not wish you to be forced to deny yourself. In part, because absolutely every person around me would be much happier and much less hurt if I stay closeted and shut up about equality till the day I die, but I still will transition and I still will be an anti-racist, anti-ableism trans feminist regardless of them. Sacrificing yourself only means that those who love you are denied being able to support you and see you happy. No matter what may be in the way, if you are willing to suffer to prevent others from being hurt, then you must accept that others can also work to make your suffering stop. Else, it all ends in everybody suffering, especially those who love you. ;_;

[Asta Kask]

I have to make this decision the way I have.

I can't let what I want hurt the ones I love.

I can't destroy everything I have for a chance at being happy.

My life has been torment and suffering. I see no reason for it not to continue that way. I see no way for it to have anything in it that is not bleak and desolate.

My soul aches at what should have been, could have been.

My soul is broken.

I am broken.

Listen, Lentrax, I have been where you seem to be and... that's not all there is. If you are bleeding, let us patch the wound. If you are broken, let us mend you. There is another way. Always.

[Miraqariftsky]

Lentrax, I am sorry that all I can offer are my friendship, my commiseration, my empathy, my sympathy. I'm sorry that you feel that way. Please, hold on. Hold on.

[Lord Raziere]

I have to make this decision the way I have.

I can't let what I want hurt the ones I love.

I can't destroy everything I have for a chance at being happy.

My life has been torment and suffering. I see no reason for it not to continue that way. I see no way for it to have anything in it that is not bleak and desolate.

My soul aches at what should have been, could have been.

My soul is broken.

I am broken.

And how happy do you think your loved ones will be when they know that your broken?

how happy do you think they will be when they see you, constantly in pain, yet never telling them why, always trying to hide it?

how happy do you think they will be when they constantly worry about you in ignorance, in the dark, not knowing what to do or how to solve this?

how happy do you think they will be when they don't know why you will not trust them to help you?

how happy, do you think they will be when they can only speculate what your problem is or why your having it? when all they have to go on is your refusal to tell them?

I apologize if I'm being inaccurate and don't know your exact situation, but I highly question your logic in this situation. how do you know that this will not cause more problems than it solves?

[Proud Tortoise]

How do I argue against this asshat? I'm at a loss.

Spoiler: "TW: Rampant homophobia

Show

Recently I've made and completed a petition called "Tony Baldwin: Let Grayson bring his backpack to school and crack down on bullying"

It was about a boy named grayson who was told not to bring his MLP backpack to school, in response to being bullied.

(You know for all you dummies who think I support gender stereotypes just cause I think men and women should dress and carry themselves differently)

Now it was success and the womans mother brought it up during her discussion with the school board, who agreed to let him bring his backpack. So I declared it a victory.
So where's the problem

Well, you see, I found that my petition was spread by a few gay rights groups. And well... That makes me mad. I made it for anti-bullying, and I did it to help a kid who was punished for being bullied. There ain't no homo stuff in it. My thread had NOTHING to do with gays at all. Yet, gays have been spreading it around like I support their kind. I don't support their kind. Stop trying to turn a sincere act of generosity into some gay stuff. But then again, that's just what the DFBT community does. Dyke, ***, bisexual, tranny community.

EDIT: Lentrax, no. Just no. 38(

[Arkhosia]

*cannot think of anything other than "PUNCH HIM IN THE FACE"*

[Miriel]

Lord Pringle : You asked for trans stuff for college, right?

Here's the main content of our (newly printed!) flyer, translated!

Spoiler

Show

Gendered spaces
Spaces with male/female separation exclude, in fact, many trans* people, either because they do not feel either choice respects their identity or because they fear to experience discrimination or violence.

Bathrooms are a first cause of unease. Without gender-neutral bathrooms, some trans* people will simply not go to the bathrrom and will wait to go back home or to finder a safer place.

Similarly, if they do not feel sage in changing rooms, they might simply not do any physical activity that requires changing.

To accomodate them, we only need to offer some individual rooms without gendered labels. It won't be necessary to start great project because several single-occupancy bathrooms distinguish between men and women. We only have to remove the distinction to make them gender-neutral.

Preferred first name
Transitioning trans* people often have two first names: a legal name (their birth name) and a preferred name which reflects their gender identity.
eir
Using a trans* person's legal first name instead of the preferred name can cause various prejudices. In addition to negating their identity, if they live full-time in their gender identity, calling them with the older name can reveal they are trans* and expose them to discrimination.

At [College], the legal name is used in several places where the preferred name would be sufficient: college email, online system, schedule, student card, class lists, etc. There is no legal reason not to use the preferred name. In fact, [two local universities] already have this policy.

[More local stuff.]

How to be a good ally

An ally is a cisgender person who support trans* people. Here are a few tips to be a good ally:
* Accept that you are cisgender -- it is not an insult.
* Never reveal without authorization someone's trans* identity to other people. It's a question of safety.
* Use someone's preferred name and pronouns (at least, if it's safe). When in doubt, ask respectfully.
* Do not ask question to a trans* person about their body or their past. In particular, do not ask if they have had "the surgery".
* Confront transphobia where you see it, in your daily life or in the media. Defend victims of discrimination. Support our demands [meh, doesn't translate well].
* Do not forget that trans* people are normal people and worthy of respect, and that they lead interesting and fulfilling lives which do not only revolve around their gender identity.

[BladeofObliviom]

How do I argue against this asshat? I'm at a loss.

You can't, technically. To a (very) limited degree, he's correct: That specific context of bullying has nothing whatsoever to do with sexuality. And honestly, it's good when people go out of their way to oppose that kind of abusive behavior, so it's kind of hard to damn this person for opposing the bullies.

It's a lot less good when that same person turns around and starts bullying someone else.

Technically speaking, though, his argument is internally consistent and there isn't much to tear apart. Fundamentally, you would approach this one in exactly the same way as you would any other completely ignorant anti-LGBT rant. If you're looking for something specific, you could point out that they're being somewhat hypocritical by opposing abuse/bullying and then throwing out a bunch of slurs, but that's really about it.

[Eldest]

How do I argue against this asshat? I'm at a loss.


EDIT: Lentrax, no. Just no. 38(

You point out that just because a black guy supports something doesn't make it a racial issue. Just because a poor guy supports something doesn't make it a class issue. Just because a woman supports something doesn't make it a feminism issue. (best word I can think of for it)

Also he's being a prick, and I personally would hit him in the face. But that wouldn't help.

[Asta Kask]

Technically speaking, though, his argument is internally consistent and there isn't much to tear apart. Fundamentally, you would approach this one in exactly the same way as you would any other completely ignorant anti-LGBT rant. If you're looking for something specific, you could point out that they're being somewhat hypocritical by opposing abuse/bullying and then throwing out a bunch of slurs, but that's really about it.

I think that's more powerful than you seem to think. He is being inconsistent in not opposing all forms of bullying, because there's no question that LGBTAI kids is being bullied. And by using slurs he's actually legitimizing the bullies.

[Coidzor]

The most direct way to stop straight kids from being bullied for being gay is to stop bullying kids for being gay, after all.

That this person is apparently unable to see that is most unfortunate, as is his endorsing the very same line of thinking that caused the kid to get bullied for having a MLP backpack in the first place.

[SiuiS]

How do I argue against this asshat? I'm at a loss.


EDIT: Lentrax, no. Just no. 38(

Point out that bullying is a gay issue in that we often get bullied.

[Lentrax]

Hey everyone.

I'll still be around. I just hurt right now from things going on here at home.

I can't leave. Anymore than I can deny who or what I am.

It just hurts right now, to be told I am being selfish.

I love you all.

See you in a week.

(*^3^)/~☆

[Asta Kask]

That's good news. *hugs*

[noparlpf]

Hey, we're back. How's everybody doing?

[turkishproverb]

*hugs everyone who will take them*

I MISSED YOU ALL SO MUCH!

*hides in corner.*

[The Giant]

Hey folks.

You'll notice that your thread has a shiny new rainbow LGBTAI+ prefix on it. You can use that for this thread, but we also want you to use it for new threads you may start here in Friendly Banter.

It's part of our response to user requests about this thread and the fact that there seem to be two purposes that are slightly at-odds with one another. On one hand, you have the function as a support thread for the community, where you can talk about your personal experiences. On the other hand, discussions of LGBTAI+ issues keep breaking out in the middle of this thread, derailing the support function for a while and generally causing mayhem.

Now, you can take those LGBTAI+ discussions to a new thread when they arise and simply apply the LGBTAI+ prefix to it. This will also prevent the "ghettoizing" effect that sometimes crops up where someone starts a thread on an LGBTAI+ topic and gets told to bring it to this thread…we don't want to force everyone into one corner of the board.

OK, that's all I wanted to say. Carry on.

[Rawhide]

*psssst*

<.<

>.>

*shifty look*

Also, you should totally check out the gender section.

*ducks into back alleyway*

[Lentrax]

Hey folks.

You'll notice that your thread has a shiny new rainbow LGBTAI+ prefix on it. You can use that for this thread, but we also want you to use it for new threads you may start here in Friendly Banter.

It's part of our response to user requests about this thread and the fact that there seem to be two purposes that are slightly at-odds with one another. On one hand, you have the function as a support thread for the community, where you can talk about your personal experiences. On the other hand, discussions of LGBTAI+ issues keep breaking out in the middle of this thread, derailing the support function for a while and generally causing mayhem.

Now, you can take those LGBTAI+ discussions to a new thread when they arise and simply apply the LGBTAI+ prefix to it. This will also prevent the "ghettoizing" effect that sometimes crops up where someone starts a thread on an LGBTAI+ topic and gets told to bring it to this thread…we don't want to force everyone into one corner of the board.

OK, that's all I wanted to say. Carry on.

That is so awesome!

Thank you all so much for this.

Thanks for all the hard work getting us going again!

[Serpentine]

*psssst*

<.<

>.>

*shifty look*

Also, you should totally check out the gender section.

*ducks into back alleyway*

Oooo!
*checks out gender selection on profile*
*can't see any change*
...
*goes looking for a gender subforum or prefix*
...
Um?