The Pub: Off-topic chat for forum gamers

[Ramsus]

I don't know that anyone would agree on exactly what an "old style" of playing would precisely mean. Also not sure people would have fun forcing themselves to play a certain way. I still recommend just looking for games that play in different ways, since not all games even fit into standard werewolf at all or barely at all. Also an idea, running games yourselves that promote certain playstyles.

[Logic]

Part of the reason I currently prefer Avalon to Werewolf is that players are not eliminated.

A fame of werewolf can easily boil down to this: "Oh, people don't trust you? Guess what, your fun is over. Bye bye."

Whereas in Avalon, you arent eliminated from the game due to a lack of trust among the loyalist, or because you are a dangerous target for the minions.

[Aventine]

DBZ, is there a site where you do regularly play? I would be interested in looking at some games there and seeing the difference.

[banjo1985]

This is all just part of Ducks scheme to get me to run Cat Fight again, isn't it?

On a more serious note, I play WW for the RP first, shenanigans second. If I can't find a foil for the former, then I start looking for the later. RP in WW has gotten rare, I think the last Fears game was the last one to really focus on it, or at least it was the last one to really grab me with the narrative. It's a shame, but it's not the only way to play. There's room for both styles in a game, and all the shades of grey in between, but it becomes an issue when one style dominates the other. I miss being able to just RP a character and not really give a crap about the tactics.

Another side effect of lack of RP is the adverse affect it has on some very narrative narrators. Fears relied on character development to feed the narrations, as did WoD and Advent Children to an extent, and Vampire. The urge to run these narrative games dissipates in me when I think of how little my story will probably be participated in. I might as well run Cat Fight again, comedy games are easy to write for, and less effort for the same result. It's a selfish way to be, and I freely admit it, but I wouldn't be surprised if other narrators had reservations about putting in the effort to run story-driven WW's because the player base as a whole might not participate in the story.

Thing is, I'm guilty of it as a player too. My time is limited, and if I don't find an RP foil early I stop trying. I should make more of an effort if I'm going to moan about it, and so I will.

Jeez, serious Banjo is serious.

*trips over invisible rock*

*rolls end over end into nearby stream*

There, that's better.

[Ramsus]

Well, I think you guys are making too big a deal of the lack of roleplaying. So far as I've seen, if you actually SAY in your opening post you expect people to RP, they will. I mean, you might get people who are more into it than others, but even the least talkative people in Core Component gave me something to work with. And some of the others I suspect are holding out on me and have an entire novel of backstory written.

[Cyber Punk]

Well, I think you guys are making too big a deal of the lack of roleplaying. So far as I've seen, if you actually SAY in your opening post you expect people to RP, they will.

I've hosted 3 RAF games so far. In three of them, I included in the first post that it'd be really nice if people RP'd, pretty please. In exactly none have people RP'd.

Yes, they choose theme-friendly names and post while the thread is active. No, they don't RP (well, some do when sending in their guesses), leaving lil' ol' me to wing it from the guesses.

[Duck999]

This is all just part of Ducks scheme to get me to run Cat Fight again, isn't it?

On a more serious note, I play WW for the RP first, shenanigans second. If I can't find a foil for the former, then I start looking for the later. RP in WW has gotten rare, I think the last Fears game was the last one to really focus on it, or at least it was the last one to really grab me with the narrative. It's a shame, but it's not the only way to play. There's room for both styles in a game, and all the shades of grey in between, but it becomes an issue when one style dominates the other. I miss being able to just RP a character and not really give a crap about the tactics.

Another side effect of lack of RP is the adverse affect it has on some very narrative narrators. Fears relied on character development to feed the narrations, as did WoD and Advent Children to an extent, and Vampire. The urge to run these narrative games dissipates in me when I think of how little my story will probably be participated in. I might as well run Cat Fight again, comedy games are easy to write for, and less effort for the same result. It's a selfish way to be, and I freely admit it, but I wouldn't be surprised if other narrators had reservations about putting in the effort to run story-driven WW's because the player base as a whole might not participate in the story.

Thing is, I'm guilty of it as a player too. My time is limited, and if I don't find an RP foil early I stop trying. I should make more of an effort if I'm going to moan about it, and so I will.

Jeez, serious Banjo is serious.

*trips over invisible rock*

*rolls end over end into nearby stream*

There, that's better.

1) Maybe. I didn't think of that, but maybe.
2) So where did this whole 'gambler' role come from?

@FE:
After one attempt at CoA with no RP, Lex has gotten some people to RP in the current one, so there is a hope for roleplay.

[Murska]

Part of the reason I currently prefer Avalon to Werewolf is that players are not eliminated.

A fame of werewolf can easily boil down to this: "Oh, people don't trust you? Guess what, your fun is over. Bye bye."

Whereas in Avalon, you arent eliminated from the game due to a lack of trust among the loyalist, or because you are a dangerous target for the minions.

I much, much prefer Resistance to Avalon. The extra roles add nothing interesting to the game, and simply work to detract from the actual effort of finding the spies, leading to situations where no matter how well you might have played as an ordinary rebel, figuring out the game and convincing people to choose the right teams, a spy can guess at Merlin and win anyway.

[Ramsus]

RAF and such games are a lot harder to get people to RP in than "regular" werewolf games.

[Logic]

I much, much prefer Resistance to Avalon. The extra roles add nothing interesting to the game, and simply work to detract from the actual effort of finding the spies, leading to situations where no matter how well you might have played as an ordinary rebel, figuring out the game and convincing people to choose the right teams, a spy can guess at Merlin and win anyway.

I have only played Avalon, so what are the win conditions for Resistance? I was told they were functionally the same.

RAF and such games are a lot harder to get people to RP in than "regular" werewolf games.

Could you please clarify your acronym? I can only read it as "Royal Air Force."

[Legato Endless]

I have only played Avalon, so what are the win conditions for Resistance? I was told they were functionally the same.

Base resistance doesn't have the power roles Avalon does. There's no major Merlin dynamic, and there isn't all the various roles that in turn interact with Merlin. It's just one team vs. another without the flowery extras.

Second Edition Resistance adds plot cards, which function as a kind of event that can be used for further information or obfuscation. Plot cards give the game variety, but they are quite swingy, and can if not break, bend the game to randomly favor one team or another. One's impression of them rests typically on how much luck you like in your game, and whether a random draw derailing everything is tolerable. There is also a version of Res that only has Merlin and Mordred, and simply forgoes the more elaborate roles.

Base Resistance has better theme integration, as the mechanics of the game don't really sensibly map to Avalon as a narrative, but Avalon is more colorful and uses a distinct known myth makes it more approachable for some people.

Resistance versus Werewolf depends on a few factors. Resistance avoids the day 1 "tax" some people despise, though in WW's defense, day 1 is a good day for role-play, fun, and for ambitious players to test themselves. Resistance also has a major advantage participation wise in that there is no player elimination. However, Resistance is much smaller, and far far less flexible. Werewolf can be altered in hundreds of major and minor ways to keep the game fresh. Resistance...is pretty much the same thing from game to game, and while you can sort of fiddle with the roles, it doesn't work half as well as far as I've seen. WW also tends to be a better role-play experience arguably, as the narrator can help create a much more comprehensive story and atmosphere, and player elimination creates more plot drive than simple mission completion, Res is episodic in that regard. In Resistance's defense however, the lack of a need for a narrator (if you're playing in real life) is a major gain for small groups.

[Ramsus]

RAF is Ready Aim Fire. Similar to the Circle of Assassin games and the like.

[Luizeu]

I have an idea for a Werewolf game with a different settings and an extra set of mechanics. Who can I PM to discuss ideas?

[Cyber Punk]

I can't wait, Lex-Kat!

[Ramsus]

That depends, Luizeu. Would the discussion of those ideas wind up with whoever discussed it with you not be able to play in the game?

[Internet Flea]

I have an idea for a Werewolf game with a different settings and an extra set of mechanics. Who can I PM to discuss ideas?

I'm up for it. But keep in mind only one of my games has been close to balanced so far.

[banjo1985]

Well, I think you guys are making too big a deal of the lack of roleplaying. So far as I've seen, if you actually SAY in your opening post you expect people to RP, they will. I mean, you might get people who are more into it than others, but even the least talkative people in Core Component gave me something to work with. And some of the others I suspect are holding out on me and have an entire novel of backstory written.

I blame me getting old - I've gotten a lot more grumpy lately.

1) Maybe. I didn't think of that, but maybe.
2) So where did this whole 'gambler' role come from?

It'll never work! As for the gambler, I needed something to fake, and it sounded convincing. It's a role I never quite used in my games yet, but have planned to.

[Duck999]

It'll never work! As for the gambler, I needed something to fake, and it sounded convincing. It's a role I never quite used in my games yet, but have planned to.

It wasn't even my idea, you brought it up.
It had just been such an elaborate claim, I was very impressed with it. Good job. That is why I like being included in PMs in my games.

[Luizeu]

@Ramsus, hum, I guess thats nothing to be revealed per se. I need help to balance the game, decide if theres going to be or how many power roles should exist. I have more or less a general idea, but only experienced players would be able to help me with the details a novice like me wouldnt think about

[Cyber Punk]

Speaking of games and RAF, Duck, you haven't introduced any of your head-explodey logic goodness!

[banjo1985]

It wasn't even my idea, you brought it up.
It had just been such an elaborate claim, I was very impressed with it. Good job. That is why I like being included in PMs in my games.

I can see it now: Cat Fight 3 - Epic Yarn: Kitties going on a quest for personal fame and fortune by finding a golden ball of string...

I'm not really cut out for shenanigans in WW, but damnit I'll try and make it sound good.

[Logic]

Speaking of games and RAF, Duck, you haven't introduced any of your head-explodey logic goodness!

....
Please don't do that to my head.

[Ramsus]

Luizeu, you can probably discuss it here then. Unless you actually want it to be something of a surprise for as many people as possible. In that case feel free to PM me (though you might as well make a QT and PM me a link to that as it'd probably be an ongoing discussion).

[Cyber Punk]

....
Please don't do that to my head.

Hehe.

*focuses on Logic's head*

[Duck999]

Speaking of games and RAF, Duck, you haven't introduced any of your head-explodey logic goodness!

I need another thread for that. I don't want any brain bits sticking up this thread.

....
Please don't do that to my head.

I won't... until there is another RAF game.

I can see it now: Cat Fight 3 - Epic Yarn: Kitties going on a quest for personal fame and fortune by finding a golden ball of string...

I'm not really cut out for shenanigans in WW, but damnit I'll try and make it sound good.

I'm not really cut out for shenanigans in WW, but damnit I'll try and make it sound good.

I'm not really cut out for shenanigans in WW

Oh really? I disagree. Especially if you are the one narrating it Mister Cat Fight. Or if you claim a role of your making in my game.

[Cyber Punk]

So, who's hosting the next CoA game? I'm up for it, if Penguinator isn't yet.

[Penguinator]

Honestly? I like a cooldown from CoA, because I invest more time in it than is healthy.

You can run the next one, but could you give it a couple weeks?

[Luizeu]

How is this game played?

[Duck999]

How is this game played?

Everyone, at the beginning of the game, sends in a secret to the narrator. A list of players and secrets is given. Each round, you try to match a player with their secret by PMing the narrator a guess. If you are right, they die. If someone matches you up to your secret, you die.

[Penguinator]

Everyone, at the beginning of the game, sends in a secret to the narrator.

And several people post a fake secret. Then Duck yells at them for it.