Toy Story Mafia: Back from hiatus 8/9

[Lex-Kat]

While I am not overly fond of the over-analysis of the first day, I don't think this is the game to oppose it vehemently. (And the recent games have been too small to waste a first day.)

Oh, it's not vehemently. Just kinda joking. I've been silently protesting this kind of analysis for a while.

[Penguinator]

I know. But this isn't the first time you've mentioned it, either.

[Ramsus]

I actually find myself at the middle ground of this issue. I enjoy some of the random silliness of non-analytic day 1's, but it's nice to not feel like day 1 is basically a freebie for the wolves and to have something to actually say/do. I don't think it's good to be too serious about barest of info analysis, but I like it being there at all. As such, I don't actually see what Sapo is doing as going too far in any way. I've seen people put on much stronger pressure for far less reason with nobody saying a thing about it. So it strikes me as either weird or actually disingenuous to say Sapo is being overzealous or crossing some kind of lynch-worthy line.

[Saposhiente]

Votecount:
Nonayer: 5 (TBFProgrammer, Aventine, Alarra, DukeGod, Saposhiente, Duck999)
Helgraf: 3 (Tanar Aerdoth, Murska, Rain Dragon, Legato Endless)
Saposhiente: 3 (Nonayer, Random_person, firedaemon33)
firedaemon33: 2 (Cuthalion, The Fiery Tower)
Eldritch Knight: 2 (Saposhiente, Ramsus, Tanar Aerdoth)
BasketOfPuppies: 2 (Zack, Jarema)
Tanar Aerdoth: 2 (Arik Kale, TBFProgrammer, Penguinator)
Random_Person: 1 (Zweisteine, Saposhiente)
Murska: 1 (firedaemon33, Disc Lorde)
Sprig: 1 (BasketOfPuppies)
Fullbladder: 1 (EmeraldRose)
Smuchmuch: 1 (Fullbladder)
Emeraldrose: 1 (Sprig)
Jarema: 1 (Elemental)
Legato Endless: 1 (autolycusfel)
Yaropolk: 1 (Lex-Kat)
Zar Peter: 1 (Mordokai)
Yumori: 1 (Zar Peter)
Mangosta: 1 (Zweisteine)
Disc_Lorde: 1 (Meta)
Aventine: 0 (The Fiery Tower)
Zweisteine: 0 (The Fiery Tower)

I stand by that, having read through the thread since then - people are saying Sapo's inconsistent, and that means if he flips any role with any kind of network we get information about that network publicly in the thread. My vote stands, because I think of all the players active Sapo's death gives us the greatest potential information.

I agree with this, but I want to add something. Inconsistency alone isn't Lynch-worthy. Inconsistency+Being as zealous as Sapo is, is not only suspicious, but also dangerous to the town in it's own right, no matter his role.

Holy crap, Random and fire doubled down! More on this below later.

I feel like Disc_Lorde has seen Murska get targeted early on in enough games that a vote there is poor.

Yes, and I drilled him on this, and my impression is that his Murska vote was a decoy vote intended to trick wolves into using bad logic to agree with him.

To the heckles of "inconsistency":
I can't drill everyone. Not only do I not have the time, we do not have the bandwidth as a town. It would be exhausting for everybody, and unproductive. Whenever someone makes a throwaway vote, I have to make a judgement call on whether I can drill them to dig up something better. I believe if you look at the people I question for better voting logic separately from the people whom I call out as suspicious, you'll find a lot more consistency in my suspicions.

I have to go now, response to Random and firedaemon in an hour or two.

[Penguinator]

Umm... I'm not voting for firedaemon33...

I'll unvote Tanar Aerdoth and vote for Helgraf. I don't know if I've seen anything from him, yet, and I'd like to see his opinions.

Specifically: Helgraf, what are your opinions of the Saposhiente and Nonayer wagons?

[Lex-Kat]

@ Penguinator: You mean Awesomenauts? I was just tired, and grumpy. I've had a lot of things on my mind recently, and over-analysis is one of the bigger thorns.

@ Any and Everyone else: I think Sapo is doing a fine job, picking and choosing who to go after. I don't mind being questioned as to why I voted one way or the other. But when I say it's random, it's random. And the analysis crew should be aware that there are those of us who like it that way. I don't do analysis until the end, if I survive that long. I long ago got tired of creating spreadsheets, keeping track of voting patterns, only to die before I could do anything with it. I don't read people as well as Murska, PizzaGuy, Sapo, and quite a few others.

[otakuryoga]

the toolbox opens its lid wondering what all the noise is about

asking a passing blue army man and hearing what happened last night
aww, shame what happened to Carl..sounds as though even my tools(plastic of course so the kiddies cant hurt themselves) wouldnt have been able to help him, and i have tools for every purpose..Saw, Hammer, Wrench, and even a Ruler.

Isn't there a Sherlock Holmes doll around? i seem to remember seeing a deerstalker cap recently

how come nobody is asking Barbie(Mordokai) about her whereabouts? Astronaut,Lawyer,12 sport Olympian, Cowgirl, etc, etc...seems like with all those personalities she herself wouldn't even know if she did it.....

[Penguinator]

@ Penguinator: You mean Awesomenauts? I was just tired, and grumpy. I've had a lot of things on my mind recently, and over-analysis is one of the bigger thorns.

You were grumpy? I almost got killed because I voted randomly. >_<

[Lex-Kat]

Yeah, well I did get killed.

[Fortuna]

@ Any and Everyone else: I think Sapo is doing a fine job, picking and choosing who to go after. I don't mind being questioned as to why I voted one way or the other. But when I say it's random, it's random. And the analysis crew should be aware that there are those of us who like it that way. I don't do analysis until the end, if I survive that long. I long ago got tired of creating spreadsheets, keeping track of voting patterns, only to die before I could do anything with it. I don't read people as well as Murska, PizzaGuy, Sapo, and quite a few others.

I want to clarify here - I do not particularly believe Sapo to be a wolf. It's day one, for crying out loud, there's essentially no data on that point yet. I do believe, however, that Sapo's death has the greatest potential to give village information if, in fact, he is a role with a network. If someone can point me at someone who, on day 1, there's any good reason to believe is a wolf, or if someone can point me at someone whose death is more likely to give us useful information, or has the potential to give us even more information, I'll happily shift my vote. Until then, I'm standing.

[Penguinator]

Yeah, well I did get killed.

By a nightkill for being the Seer. It's hardly the same.

[Ionbound]

Sapo, the reason I'm getting on to you is that people are making worse arguments than me. But you immediately aggro'd right to me as soon as I posted, which means that you are trying to protect Murska, even if you're trying to deny it, which, based on my suspicions of Murska, makes you seem wolfy.

[Duck999]

*Holds up sign* DOWN WITH DAY ONE OVER-ANALYSIS.

I got Cuthalion to make you a present, which is also in my signature. I am going to use one as a avatar after reanimation week is over.

[smuchmuch]

EH? Oh right. I voted for Smuchmuch, so, uh, Hey, Smuchmuch! You a bad enough dude to have night kill powers?

Arr there be no smuchmuch here, only captain Blockbeard

and I be killing my enemies in broad daylight, Ye be walking the plank next Greenie

*Holds up sign* DOWN WITH DAY ONE OVER-ANALYSIS.

Lex kat is shooting her way straight into my heart, alas our love cannot be. This is clearly a wolf tactic to break my heart so I'll ,vote for The Fiery Tower instead because.

[Sprig]

I got Cuthalion to make you a present, which is also in my signature. I am going to use one as a avatar after reanimation week is over.

but slight difference between over-analysis and analysis. But I agree on the over analysis, it raises my eyebrows (if i had any) somewhat.

For day one, its better to let the chips lay where they fall and take note of where they did rather than put overt pressure on. The reason I would give for this is people simply respond to pressure differently. This early on, the response is a personal character(meta) one rather than a gameplay based one. So I don't see much value in it for the villagers.

However, there is value for the wolf in a 'look-at-me-I'm-super-pro-villager'. Even with the dangerous drawbacks, being seen as a town leader is invaluable for a wolf team.

[Duck999]

It was supposed to say over analysis, but I think it was just the size of an avatar that had to make it a little smaller sign, ao the writing couldn't be too small, so a word was cut out. I need to check my PM to see if I actually wrote over analysis in it.

[Legato Endless]

I'll ,vote for The Fierry Tower instead because.

Relevant to that, does a vote count even if the name is misspelled?

[Penguinator]

Relevant to that, does a vote count even if the name is misspelled?

I can only think of one game where it didn't.

[Cuthalion]

I can only think of one game where it didn't.

That was a fun role. I might use that at some point again.

[Ionbound]

I can only think of one game where it didn't.

You know, Pengi, you've actually got me copypastaing people's names from their posts now, even though I died first then.

[Murska]

I don't think lynching Sapo is a good idea. He's giving us a lot of data to work with, so he'll string himself up sooner or later if he's a wolf.

[Cuthalion]

You know, Pengi, you've actually got me copypastaing people's names from their posts now, even though I died first then.

Oh, huh. You were in that game? You've been playing them longer than I have? Interesting.

[Saposhiente]

Umm... I'm not voting for firedaemon33...

Whoops, misred your orange as red.

I got Cuthalion to make you a present, which is also in my signature. I am going to use one as a avatar after reanimation week is over.
*image snip*

Duck, you complain about overanalysis, but here you sit contributing to a giant smokescreen over anything to be learned from town.

I'll join the Saposhiente wagon, and see what comes of it.

"And see what comes of [the wagon]".
Motivations for encouraging a wagon for the sole purpose of examining it and its results:
1. Seeing how the wagonee reacts.
2. Seeing what other people join the wagon, and for what logic.
3. Determining whether it's a safe wagon to end day on (wolf)
I'll assume it's 1 or 2

My vote for Sapo was based on a hazily half-remembered skim of the thread which gave me the impression that Sapo was acting funny, and therefore that building a wagon on Sapo to see what he flips would let us better understand the motivations for acting funny, and therefore what to read into them. Or something.

So you're building a wagon with the intent of killing me. That's different.

I stand by that, having read through the thread since then - people are saying Sapo's inconsistent, and that means if he flips any role with any kind of network we get information about that network publicly in the thread. My vote stands, because I think of all the players active Sapo's death gives us the greatest potential information.

This doesn't work because only alignment is revealed, not role, in addition to other problems. Furthermore, in the reality where role is revealed, you know who wants to get information about non-Wolf networks? Wolves.

I want to clarify here - I do not particularly believe Sapo to be a wolf. It's day one, for crying out loud, there's essentially no data on that point yet. I do believe, however, that Sapo's death has the greatest potential to give village information if, in fact, he is a role with a network. If someone can point me at someone who, on day 1, there's any good reason to believe is a wolf, or if someone can point me at someone whose death is more likely to give us useful information, or has the potential to give us even more information, I'll happily shift my vote. Until then, I'm standing.

Someone could also scry me and get the same information without lynching an analyst. This is not a request to be scried, and in fact a scry on me is a bad idea because I'm likely to die early, I do that a lot. If I eat the nightkill you get the same information.
I don't think that this is a good Day 1 tactic, not on someone like me. Day 3-6 maybe, but not Day 1. Day 1, if there's nobody who is clearly wolfy (Don't be too eager to go to this, I'm still in wolfhunting mode), we want to lynch people that are contributing poorly, because we're less likely to be able to suss out their alignment later without a scry, and it'll improve our ability to hunt wolves in the short term.

[Duck999]

My contribution to the protest was more of a joke, but I am sort of against people not joking around much.

[Saposhiente]

My contribution to the protest was more of a joke, but I am sort of against people not joking around much.

Have I not been meeting my Joke Quota? Nooo, please, I'm sorry, I'll do better next time! Joke Police, show mercy! Nono, you can just put down the taser--AAAAAH!

[Lex-Kat]

I got Cuthalion to make you a present, which is also in my signature. I am going to use one as a avatar after reanimation week is over.

Aww. That's cute. Thanks.

[Penguinator]

Oh, huh. You were in that game? You've been playing them longer than I have? Interesting.

Longer, perhaps, but not as many games, as far as I know.

I think it was the first for both of you?

Have I not been meeting my Joke Quota? Nooo, please, I'm sorry, I'll do better next time! Joke Police, show mercy! Nono, you can just put down the taser--AAAAAH!

[Cuthalion]

Longer, perhaps, but not as many games, as far as I know.

I think it was the first for both of you?

Ah, I see.

I came in, I believe, as an auto-lynch replacement, is that correct?

EDIT:Ah yes. And lasted 'til the next day, whereupon I was lynched.

[Penguinator]

Ah, I see.

I came in, I believe, as an auto-lynch replacement, is that correct?

EDIT:Ah yes. And lasted 'til the next day, whereupon I was lynched.

Nice parallel. First game for both of you, and you both lasted a single day.

[Ionbound]

Well, let's be honest. Thanks to the noble efforts of the FCC, I did last quite a while. And then I come back a year later, and I see all this jazz about not killing new people? What even is this!? Why, when I joined, I was mercilessly offed!