Simple Q&A for Pathfinder 3: Find With a Vengeance

[Rickshaw]

Quoting since it never got answered

Q310
Can multiple people ride the same creature? If, somehow, you got a huge mount, could you put the party wizard up there and the archer too? Would only one person have to make the ride check or direct the mount?

Also
Q313
Do the entangled and grappled conditions stack?

[Drackstin]

Q314

In the scene of feat and ability stack, how would you know what takes place during your turn. (ie. i have rage power knockback, Improved bull rush, Spiked Destroyer, Merciless rush, Squash Flat. do all of these activate, and in what order, also when initiating a bull rush when charging, is that counted as the bull rush traded from kockback)

so meaning do i charge, bull rush or charge kockback. and if so is it charge bull rush, kockback damage, spike destroyer damage, merciless rush damage, squash flat trip, aoo knockback?

[Cieyrin]

A 310 RAW doesn't talk about this instance as far as I can tell, though from what I can surmise, as long as you don't exceed the mount's carrying capacity and there's adequate room in the creature's space, you can have multiple creatures on the same mount. Only one creature would need to direct the mount but the others are still subject to Stay in Saddle use of Ride.

So if you got an Elephant and exotic saddles for all the riders, you could fit 9 Medium creatures and equipment, provided their total weight don't exceed 9600 lbs, a heavy load for a typical pachyderm.

A 313 Yes.

[Togath]

Q315
Does a Tekko-Kagi act as a buckler if used in the off hand and not used to attack?
This question spawns from this part of it's description: "A tekko-kagi can be used an offensive weapon, defensively like a buckler, or to disarm an opponent’s weapon"

[Lonely Tylenol]

Q316
How do the multipliers in the Foe-Biting weapon mythic weapon property, the Vital Strike chain of feats (and by extension their Mythic counterparts), and critical hits interact with each other? As I understand it, critical hits and the Vital Strike line stack additively, while the Foe-Biting property stacks multiplicatively; is this the case? If so, in which order do you put them together?

Bonus points: can you explain using the following example?
A character with a scythe (x4 modifier), who has the Vital Strike line up to Improved and Mythic Improved (x3 modifier), confirms a critical hit, expending two uses of Mythic Power to activate Foe-Biting (x2 modifier). What is the final damage modifier for weapon damage and flat modifiers, as well as for precision damage?

[Raven777]

Q317 What's the actual value of the rulings Paizo's staff often post on their message boards? Do they old sway in PFS? Are they expected to hold sway at regular table play? Are they considered corrections to the rules, or just advice from one DM to another?

[Psyren]

A314: Yes, these can all be combined because they do not require separate actions. So you can charge someone, knockback in place of the melee attack (or simply bull rush in place of the melee attack - there's actually no difference), get the bonuses from Improved Bull Rush, and if you succeed, you will trigger Spiked Destroyer, Merciless Rush and Squash Flat all at once.

A315 Yes, you can use it like a buckler because it has the "see text" property which then makes it act as described.

I'm not very familiar with Mythic yet; maybe CockroachTeaParty or someone else can help with 316?

[flamewolf393]

Q318

Would these stack for getting double your wisdom to bluff:

"You use your Wisdom modifier instead of your Charisma modifier when making Bluff and Intimidate checks." (Heresy Inquisition ability)

And

"She adds her Wisdom modifier on Bluff and Diplomacy skill checks in addition to the normal ability score modifiers" (Inquisitor: Infiltrator archetype ability)

[Yanisa]

A317
Well forum post that don't end up in the FAQ or Errata seem to be just advice or a look into the mind of that designer. Sometimes intention gets lost in editing, and even if designers explain their reasoning, Paizo can still disagree. A good example is the Titan Mauler, in which the designer said the two core ability (Jotungrip and Massive Weapons) were meant to work together, but Paizo really closed the door on that one. Not everything a designer says fits within the "grand design" of the rules.
Once Paizo feels it should be in the game, they add it to the FAQ or Errata, and then it becomes PFS legal. Before that, any post from a designer has no effect in PFS, and only effect in games if your DM agrees with it. (And even the FAQ is dubious whether it is RAW, but PFS treats it as such and so do many people.)

On a sidenote, the PFD20SRD tends to take designers post as errata and either changes the rules, or adds a sidebar. It can be confusing, but it's no real Errata until Paizo publishes it as such.

A318
Yes, they stack. From the stacking rules they are untyped bonuses from different sources.

However, the Paizo Team strongly disagrees with that mindset (although I cannot find the post anymore), and in general they seem to threat ability based bonuses as typed bonuses. And following that logic you can two bonuses with the same type (in this case case Wisdom) which don't stack. The problem arises that unlike 3.5, pathfinder hasn't really published a list of bonuses, and by 3.5 logic, there is no "Wisdom Bonus", so it must be an untyped bonus.
This is not RAW, but see this as a warning that some people, and perhaps your DM, don't agree that it should stack.

[The Vagabond]

Q318: Is there a spell that replicates voices?

Q319: Can Ghost Sound make a violin tune, or a a guitar sound? Can it replicate a distinct voice?

[Yanisa]

A318
Ventriloquism

A319
Yes, it can make musical sounds. Even though most examples are human based sounds, the precise spell allows to create any volume of sound.
No, it cannot sound as specific people, it cannot even make intelligible speech. See the FAQ for more info. It can just make the impression that you hear people talking, but you cannot understand what they say.

[Drackstin]

Q320

dose the feat Accursed Hex let me use a Hex for a second time on a target the turn it made the save for free, or must i be able to use the Hex a second time for this to benefit, the text in unclear.

[Psyren]

A320: you have to use it a second time, which in most cases means another standard action and therefore another round.

You're allowed to target the creature a second time but it doesn't change anything about the Hex process itself.

[Dalebert]

Q 321 Can a hex meet a prerequisite for crafting a magic item? For instance, if you have the Disguise Hex, would you be able to craft a Hat of Disguise (assuming you had Craft Wondrous Item, of course).

[Drackstin]

Q322
When using Variant Channeling and picking Weather, are the channeling dice divided by 1/4 or do you gain the 1/2 dice back. (ex. 4d6 channeling turns into 2d6 with variant channeling, with weather channeling is it 2d6+2d6 sonic, or is it 1d6+1d6 sonic?

Q323
when taking the Improved familiar feat, do you lose the original bonuses from your first familiar (ex. +4 initiative from a compy) or do you retain it with your new familiar?

[Psyren]

A321: As written, no - the allowed sources are "spells, spell-like abilities, spell completion and spell trigger items." I can't seem to find anything that adds supernatural abilities to that list.

However, you're making a wondrous item, so you can simply add +5 to the crafting DC to ignore the requirement and make your hat with no problems.

A322: As written it is halved, and then you turn half of that into sonic/electricity while the other half stays as negative energy. So your Cleric 7 with a 4d6 channel would do 1d6+1d6 sonic.

A323: You have to lose your original familiar before you can take this feat anyway, so yes, you would have already lost the original benefit. (However, you will regain the stuff that is common to all familiars like Alerness.)

[HMS Invincible]

Q324. Can you rideby attack to run away/ past a hill giant without opportunity attacks. This refers to the feat, and a lancer on a horse.

[Psyren]

A324: Yes, neither you nor your mount will provoke from the giant at any point during that movement. You have to attack the giant however and you must ride in a straight line.

[Odessa333]

Q 325

I'm not sure if this falls under 'simple' so if not, feel free to tell me to shove off ;)


I'm trying to figure out my monk's base damage under some specific conditions. I am level 18 (monk's robe, so effective level 20 as I understand it) for 2d10 base. I am then adding four lovely complications: the spells Strong Jaw, Lead Blades, Animal aspect: gorilla, and the mythic feat Titan strike. All of these influence my base damage. The team's 'rules lawyer' told me my base was 12d10 with all of these factors, so we went along with it for weeks. We've added a new player who is also a 'rules lawyer' and he's raised objections on the math, arguing for 10d8. Frankly, I don't know which is right and I'm hoping someone who knows the rules better can clarify this. Again, if this isn't 'simple' I apologize and will seek aid elsewhere. Thanks for your time!

[Dalebert]

Q 326 Can a caster choose not to disbelieve his own illusion spell or is he considered automatically to disbelieve? Ex: Shadow Evocation--if I want to benefit from the non-damaging effects of the spell like to see by the light of Continual Flame.

Q 327 If you use Shadow Conjuration to mimic Summon Totem Creature, does it still have the restriction about requiring you to be part of a clan? (Presumably you're not actually summoning the creature. You're creating a shadow magic illusion of one.)

[HMS Invincible]

A324: Yes, neither you nor your mount will provoke from the giant at any point during that movement. You have to attack the giant however and you must ride in a straight line.

Q324.b I realize this complicates the question, but I had a player who was pretty adamant about not attacking. So, where does it say I have to attack on a charge and/or ride by attack in order to benefit from the charge/ride by attack. The goal of the player was to avoid opportunity attacks, which ride-by attack states. Withdrawal action was ruled out because it only avoided 1 opportunity attack.

[Psyren]

A325: In the previous iteration of this thread, one of our regulars (Keneth) calculated an expansion of the Bestiary's natural weapon table up to Colossal size. Unfortunately, this was before the board redesign so the table formatting broke; I'll leave this here in case someone else is able to fix it, but your answer should be somewhere in that table.

A326: Yes - "A creature can voluntarily forgo a saving throw and willingly accept a spell's result." Simply fail your will save to disbelieve and the shadow illusion becomes 100% real for you. Your allies can choose to do the same as well, e.g. if you're making a shadow wall of force as a bridge for them to cross a chasm.

A327: This is tricky - it depends on how much of a spell's text gets mimicked by the shadow line. I would say you could use it regardless of clan, but remember that your summons will be pretty weak (1/5 HP and 1/5 AC even to people that fail their save, and Augment Summoning et al. won't work since they're illusions.)

EDIT:

Q324.b I realize this complicates the question, but I had a player who was pretty adamant about not attacking. So, where does it say I have to attack on a charge and/or ride by attack in order to benefit from the charge/ride by attack. The goal of the player was to avoid opportunity attacks, which ride-by attack states. Withdrawal action was ruled out because it only avoided 1 opportunity attack.

A324 addendum: It says so here in the text for Ride-By-Attack:

"You and your mount do not provoke an attack of opportunity from the opponent that you attack."

Thus if you do not attack anyone, you will not get the anti-AoO benefit. (You should be able to just voluntarily miss though.)

[Dalebert]

...but remember that your summons will be pretty weak

That is unfortunate, but it lasts an hour unlike most summons and some of them would make great scouts/spies.

[Slithery D]

Q 325

I'm not sure if this falls under 'simple' so if not, feel free to tell me to shove off ;)


I'm trying to figure out my monk's base damage under some specific conditions. I am level 18 (monk's robe, so effective level 20 as I understand it) for 2d10 base. I am then adding four lovely complications: the spells Strong Jaw, Lead Blades, Animal aspect: gorilla, and the mythic feat Titan strike. All of these influence my base damage. The team's 'rules lawyer' told me my base was 12d10 with all of these factors, so we went along with it for weeks. We've added a new player who is also a 'rules lawyer' and he's raised objections on the math, arguing for 10d8. Frankly, I don't know which is right and I'm hoping someone who knows the rules better can clarify this. Again, if this isn't 'simple' I apologize and will seek aid elsewhere. Thanks for your time!

The general rule is that each size increase bumps your damage about 50% and each two size increases almost always doubles your starting damage. If uneven dice doesn't allow a perfect 50% jump for one increase, you still end up at a double increase for two size jumps.

So for 5 increases, starting at a 2d10 base, I'd say 12d10 is right. Four increases is two doublings, to 8d10, plus 50% for your left over gets you to a nice even 12d10.

[Yanisa]

A325 Correction
Going from a Medium Monk to a Large Monk changes the Dice from 2d10 to 4d8. Then you get another 4d8 from two size increases, which leads to 8d8. Which then gets doubled by Strong Jaw to 16d8.

Just remember, this is not strict RAW. The insanely strict RAW would say we already "breaking rules" by being "off chart". There are no printed damage charts for monk fists beyond large, so your damage cannot increase past large, 4d8.(It can double with Strong Jaw, if you increase your size twice. But that leads to the stupid case of increasing size but not increasing damage. It also means your maximum damage is 8d8...)

Also see Natural Attacks for the progression of d10 and d8 damage dices... Although that chart is officially strictly for the feat, it still shows us the general formula.

Edit: Keneth' s Table also holds true because it follows the same logic. Just remember that as soon as you hit Gargantuan, Strong Jaw doubles dice.

Here is the table fixed:

Monk Level	Fine	Dimunitive	Tiny	Small	Medium	Large	Huge	Gargantuan	Colossal
1st-3rd	1	1d2	1d3	1d4	1d6	1d8	2d6	3d6	4d6
4th-7th	1d2	1d3	1d4	1d6	1d8	2d6	3d6	4d6	6d6
8th-11th	1d3	1d4	1d6	1d8	1d10	2d8	3d8	4d8	6d8
12th-15th	1d4	1d6	1d8	1d10	2d6	3d6	4d6	6d6	8d6
16th-19th	1d6	1d8	1d10	2d6	2d8	3d8	4d8	6d8	8d8
20th	1d8	1d10	2d6	2d8	2d10	4d8	6d8	8d8	12d8

[Odessa333]

A325: Wow, 16d8.... that's huge. I should be able to increase my size another step next level too, so that chart will help. Adding the vital strike chain to these numbers is going to be crazy. Thanks for tackling such a sticky question!

Anywho, I have one that's hopefully easier.


Q328.

What actions can be used in gaseous form? As I understand it, Physical attacks are out, super natural effects are out, and spells with a V/S/M/F/DF requirement are out. I guess some spells without those requirements (Are those with still spell and the like) can be used. Could one use class features? Since I'm a monk, I'm curious about things like Abundant step, empty body, or a Qinggong Monk's shadow walk. Any ideas?

[Psyren]

A328: It's pretty clear - you can use SLAs (and still/silent/eschewed spells, which function similarly) but not supernatural abilities. Class features are typed, so the ones you mentioned will generally fall into one of those two categories.

Abundant Step: This is Su, so it's out.
Empty Body: Also Su, also out.
Shadow Walk: SLA, so it's in.

Basically, look at each ability and see which tag it gets - Su, Ex or Sp. Most Qinggong things that mimic a spell are SLAs and so they work.

[Drackstin]

Q329
How dose Multiweapon Fighting work, is it just like two-weapon fighting or would it not matter if you use a light weapon in your off hand? also if you had two sets of arms and 2 2handed weapons, would the first set of arms be the primary and the second set be the secondary? also would you be able to take improved two-weapon fighting if you only had Multiweapon fighting?

[Psyren]

A329a: As written, Multiweapon Fighting gets you down to -4/-4/-4/-4/.... with your primary and off-hands. Though not outright stated, it's reasonable to assume you can reduce these to -2/-2/-2/-2/... if all your offhand weapons are light, but this is not strictly RAW. RAW would be that you are stuck with -4s and no way to improve them further.

A329b: There is not, as far as I know, any IMWF or other feats that expand on MWF. There is a IMWF in Savage Species that basically doubles your attacks if you really want one.

For what it's worth, JJ has weighed in on the topic pretty recently here. He may even still be watching that thread.

[Drackstin]

Psyren thank you for the help. I'm toying with a few fun builds and I'm new to pathfinder.

Q330a
If i pick a large race, and then pick my class as synthesis summoner, can i not use my Eidolon until level 2 summoner and take the large evolution?

Q330b
Do i still gain the benefit of picking a Eidolon base form if i am a synthesis summoner?

Q330c
If i start with a quadruped base form and take the ride evolution on a synthesis summoner, can i benefit from using the feat spirited charge, or any mounted feats for that matter? since a centaur can count as its own mount. and they have a centaur package i think yes, but i wanted to ask.