Is Lolth Smarter Then She Seems?

[Killer Angel]

Except she does care about the drow. When their numbers get to low, she personally tells them to cut back on the murders until their population can support it again.

I think her interest in drows, it's based merely on 2 things:
- she likes to be worshipped
- the lack of worshippers, means a decrease in her power and in the number of disposable pawns

Her nature is chaotic, not suicidal.

[Rubik]

Have you ever actually read the Kojiki? There's plenty of weird crap in there.

Sure, but I'd still rather subscribe to "What Would Ammy Do?" than ask myself the same question of anyone or anything in just about any other pantheon.

Okami Amaterasu: Accept No Inferior Substitutions.

Plus, she can totally kick Lolth's eight-legged arse.

[RedMage125]

The OP's assertion about Lolth fits in 100% as canonical, especially when one reads the War of the Spider Queen series (particularly R.A. Salvatore's intros) and in the Rise of the Underdark plotline-wherein the drow try to invade the surface as a part of Lolth's bid to become the new goddess of magic-the intro video, narrated by Lolth, explicitly states that she brought the drow to the Underdark as sort of crucible, to forge them into perfect weapons.

Also, 2e's monster Manual said about the drow that since their training regimen is so harsh that no drow is ever encountered below 2nd level. Any drow that can't hack it gets executed.

So...yes. You're correct about her.

[Psyren]

Oh, my. I actually thought this was general Roleplaying, I'm sorry. I've been discussing in bad faith. Apologies Psyren.

No harm done.

Except she does care about the drow. When their numbers get to low, she personally tells them to cut back on the murders until their population can support it again. Actually, the fact SR has to do this is an indicator her idea for a heavy Darwinist society is kinda failing, since success would have the society become self suffecient.

My understanding is that her intervention in this way is pretty rare and usually involves external factors like mindflayer incursions and such.

[Telok]

Question: If Lolth has turned the society into a sort of survival test in order to produce uberdrow, why haven't high/epic level drow spellcasters conqured the underdark? There are people around here who can nuke entire planets with any caster class you wish to name and they've only been at this for a couple dozen years. Why haven't any drow with ten times as much time and lots of incentives for it managed to do even a tenth of that?

[Rubik]

Question: If Lolth has turned the society into a sort of survival test in order to produce uberdrow, why haven't high/epic level drow spellcasters conqured the underdark? There are people around here who can nuke entire planets with any caster class you wish to name and they've only been at this for a couple dozen years. Why haven't any drow with ten times as much time and lots of incentives for it managed to do even a tenth of that?

Because Lolth.

Also, because Edition Changes.

Also also, because WotC's Lack of Optimization Skills.

[Killer Angel]

Question: If Lolth has turned the society into a sort of survival test in order to produce uberdrow, why haven't high/epic level drow spellcasters conqured the underdark? There are people around here who can nuke entire planets with any caster class you wish to name and they've only been at this for a couple dozen years. Why haven't any drow with ten times as much time and lots of incentives for it managed to do even a tenth of that?

because they spend 99% of their energies, to watch their back for internal struggles, rather then seek dominance over the rest of the world!

[atemu1234]

because they spend 99% of their energies, to watch their back for internal struggles, rather then seek dominance over the rest of the world!

I'd be willing to bet this is also part of Lolth's plan. She's a goddess; she may be impatient by that standard, but that doesn't stop her from having plans that span aeons.

Also, they always fail because heroes/surface elves/Drizzt expies interfering. Every time she gets close she fails, because both the interior and the exterior of drow society is under attack.

Quite frankly, they're one epic paladin away from extinction.

[Psyren]

Question: If Lolth has turned the society into a sort of survival test in order to produce uberdrow, why haven't high/epic level drow spellcasters conqured the underdark? There are people around here who can nuke entire planets with any caster class you wish to name and they've only been at this for a couple dozen years. Why haven't any drow with ten times as much time and lots of incentives for it managed to do even a tenth of that?

Come on, they can't even optimize the gods or Chosen properly, you think they can handle a mortal spellcaster?

[Zubrowka74]

"Lloth" is how the name is spelled in the drow language. And she's a lloth smarter than you think...

[Zaq]

I believe her full title is "Rof'lolth."

[Rubik]

[georgie_leech]

I believe her full title is "Rof'lolth."

TIL what coffee feels like when you snort it through your nose. Bravo.

[The Viscount]

While we're on the topic of Lolth's master plan, we might as well discuss the outcome of having so many losers. These drow, being CE and pledged to Lolth, would likely go to the Abyss in the afterlife. I have few ranks in knowledge (planes), does anyone know what fraction of these drow souls end up in Lolth's domain to contribute to her demon army?

[Necroticplague]

While we're on the topic of Lolth's master plan, we might as well discuss the outcome of having so many losers. These drow, being CE and pledged to Lolth, would likely go to the Abyss in the afterlife. I have few ranks in knowledge (planes), does anyone know what fraction of these drow souls end up in Lolth's domain to contribute to her demon army?

I'm pretty sure all that actively worship have their souls go to her domain, just like any other god. Of course, because of her caprice, and how her "attention" to a drow typically involves cursing them, I imagine your typical drow isn't as much a worshipper as someone who just hopes her gaze skips them. So probably not too many. On the bright side, their lifetime should get them pretty used to the abyssal way of living.

[atemu1234]

I'm pretty sure all that actively worship have their souls go to her domain, just like any other god. Of course, because of her caprice, and how her "attention" to a drow typically involves cursing them, I imagine your typical drow isn't as much a worshipper as someone who just hopes her gaze skips them. So probably not too many. On the bright side, their lifetime should get them pretty used to the abyssal way of living.

I always thought her goal wasn't to control the dead, but the living. She wants to rule the prime material, hence the entire "crucible" thing. Her worshipers do still return to her upon death, but most don't - that doesn't stop them from creating a stronger drow to rule the world someday.

Also, I'm pretty sure you don't have to follow a god/goddess to go to their domain following their demise. A lot of the description of sacrifice and societies implies that those that are the result of either can be magically stolen and sent to Lolth's Domain.

[Graypairofsocks]

It is a leap to jump from fertile amazon elves underground who murder each other constantly have a thriving and spreading society that functions well on a social level.

The drow aren't exactly amazon elves, they are even shorter than the other sub-species of elf.

[SiuiS]

because they spend 99% of their energies, to watch their back for internal struggles, rather then seek dominance over the rest of the world!

"Those who watch for a knife in the back will be stabbed in the front" is an actual drow proverb. They're a weird people.

The drow aren't exactly amazon elves, they are even shorter than the other sub-species of elf.

You can tell me drow women aren't mine feet tall and shoot lightning bolts from their arse, but I won't believe you.

[toapat]

Also, the three things you've listed in quotes are hardly societal dealbreakers - there have been successful civilizations with far weirder mores, so they're not indicative of some impossible construct.

The Social Darwinist explanation certainly works and at least has in lore admitted that its not working as well as intended. Honestly, the wierdest part of the Society is that the "angry lesbians" part hasnt won out so completely that there are no male drow. Its not like you cant use Bestow Curse to create a debuff that does "-8 to Appraise*, Can only procreate with other women**, Inheritable (100% chance)" and call that the "Blessing of Lolth". the only problem is that this ends up giving reptilian/amphibian traits to drow as opposed to arachnid traits. Then again Lolth gets her preferred gender of followers in bulk in return for a few minor insults.

The racial description of Drow you pulled from DotU is kinda weird though with the full edition context, as RotW has normal elves reaching full physical maturity at age ~20 and then mental maturity at around 110. although if you want to put the canon-dissonance into perspective more insane troll logic falls on the reproduction rate for regular elves, not drow, as there is only one logical outcome of having a race be physically mature for 90 years while mentally driven by hormones and an overgrown immortality complex in desperate need of pruning.

*Id have it apply to Craft: Basketweaving but that skill actually seems flavorfully appropriate for drow clerics

**Imagine this line is the summary of a legal text 700 pages long