Goblins XV: Klik Here

[Bird]

While trying to avoid getting into a whole long thing: Gez is right. The situation is creepily contrived regardless of whether Bowst is lying. Also: art creates the illusion of presenting us with a real world unfolding. In reality, what we see if a series of the artist's choices. Putting the sex curse in Goblins was the artist's choice. So is everything else in Goblins. Even if the sex curse were a standard D&D curse, this would not absolve the writer of the responsibility to consider whether it should be deployed, and how.

[Traab]

What you mean, not a real part of the web comic? It's been said (and probably done). The curse exists. And its pretty horrible (as in writing, not the effect).

He was talking about dominic deegan, and yes, that happened. If stonewater was going to save melnas life, he had to claim her, have sex with her, and be able to prove it happened. All this not 5 minutes after melnas parents were killed right in front of her. If he tried to fake it, they both would have died. If he refused, she would die. Needless to say, she wasnt exactly "in the mood" It was an awful situation all the way around, and honestly, I think the biggest issue was Mookie using the phrase "heroic rapist" as a description. Had he just left it as it was and let us draw our own conclusions I think it would have been less of a massive backlash against the guy, because the situation itself from a narrative standpoint could have gone really well in character development. But with mookie trying to portray stonewater as a hero for what he did, well, that didnt work out so well.

[BannedInSchool]

For me, while what's on the page isn't that bad, when any parallels to the real world are drawn it gets pretty icky, and I imagine the Internet can assume a variety of outrageously offensive authorial intents. A joke about the situation in the comic occurred to me that I find humorous as a play on words, applying the literal meaning of words to a phrase usually meant figuratively, but erm...applied to the real world is seriously not funny. If someone thought I was making a joke of the real world literal meaning then they'd be sure to think of me as Worse Than Pedantic Hitler. The situation in the comic just looks like similarly winding up to hit a hornet's nest with a bat.

[BaronOfHell]

Sex means more to some than others.. so far I'm not joining any wagon.

[Agi Hammerthief]

I'd somehow expect that everyone near the person getting cursed will know about it, via some ominous voice shouting:

"Thou Hath Failed The Test Of Agility!!!
Be Cursedd With Having Sex Every Day,
Lest You Die From An Exploding Password**"

[pause for drama]

"and you'll also die if you cut it off, smartypants"

** as in: Your password is not long enough /wink wink, nudge nudge

edit: changed text to match original comic

[Vinyadan]

I'd somehow expect that everyone near the person getting cursed will know about it, via some ominous voice shouting:

"Thou Hath Failed The Test Of Agility!!!
Be Cursedd With Having Sex Every Day,
Lest You Die From An Exploding Password**"

[pause for drama]

"and you'll also die if you cut it off, smartypants"

** as in: Your password is too short /wink wink, nudge nudge

This reminds me of all those Morrowind magic scrolls which said "Thy feet shall be bound" or were pretty unspecific with "Woe upon thee".

[Draconi Redfir]

I have a vast collection of official and third-party D&D 3rd/3.5th edition source books, and I can tell you that none of them contain traps inflicting random daily curses such as those inflicted to Bowst and Idle. That's not a D&D thing. That's not an "it's how their world works" thing. It's entirely an "it's what Thunt decided to put in his story" thing.

Creator of origional content decides to put mechanics and aspects into his world that are not pre-written and determined by somebody else. Scientists somehow baffled. Writers not at all.

[Gez]

Creator of origional content decides to put mechanics and aspects into his world that are not pre-written and determined by somebody else. Scientists somehow baffled. Writers not at all.

So, you agree that it's all Thunt's idea of what Thunt should put in that Thuntian story told by Thunt? Cool.

[Ibrinar]

So, you agree that it's all Thunt's idea of what Thunt should put in that Thuntian story told by Thunt? Cool.

Of course it is. Just take care that all criticism using that argument works at the same level of abstraction. (As in at that level it doesn't matter that it is ****ty for the fictional characters you need to build an argument why you think such a situation shouldn't be decipted or at least not decipted by Thunt. And I think your post about the topic were a bit lacking in that aspect. (Though personally I wish he hadn't. I simply don't think he is good enough at that sort of thing to produce an interesting exploration of the situation so in the best case I expect it to be awkward and uncomfortable and then be forgotten. In the worst case…*shrugh* well no point in speculating about that.))

[Gez]

why you think such a situation shouldn't be decipted or at least not decipted by Thunt

I do not understand what you mean by "decipted".


Anyway I don't see a need to build much of an argument about why introducing a couple locked into an eternal snuff movie scenario seems like a bad authorial decision to make. I would think that it is much like building an argument that two added to two brings a sum equal to four.

[Ibrinar]

I think I wanted the word "depicted".

[-D-]

As in at that level it doesn't matter that it is ****ty for the fictional characters you need to build an argument why you think such a situation shouldn't be decipted or at least not decipted by Thunt.

Yes having the a male and a female character, **** and kill each other, in order to fufill some ridiculous curse is pretty dumb. It's bordering Buckley's level of tone deafness.

You can't mix different tones and expect your audience to not care. That's dumb.

Summary: You can't mix the written equivalent of pineapple and lutefisk, and expect no one to mind.

[Killer Angel]

Probably Thunt expects some reaction (he should know, after the whole affair of the dog pile your soul), but he hopes in some "benefit of doubt" and that we readers wait to see how it developes. Maybe.

[Agi Hammerthief]

he wrote the story up years ago, before he had any experience with public reactions.
Probbably looked like a good idea then.

[The Glyphstone]

Yes having the a male and a female character, **** and kill each other, in order to fufill some ridiculous curse is pretty dumb. It's bordering Buckley's level of tone deafness.

You can't mix different tones and expect your audience to not care. That's dumb.

Summary: You can't mix the written equivalent of pineapple and lutefisk, and expect no one to mind.

Except Thunt doesn't mix different tones. It's always just miserable and depressing.

[-D-]

Except Thunt doesn't mix different tones. It's always just miserable and depressing.

That's a simplification. There are some attempts at slapstick/dumb jokes, some minor horror and the whole "lets be miserable and depressing" shtick.

And now there are rape-y curses.

It's not impossible to have slapstick, horror and drama (look at Unsounded), but the transition needs to be done masterfully and subtly. You can't have **** joke and someone getting decapitated on the same page in a gruesome* manner. You need to space the slapstick far away from horror IMO.

* Orks chopping off someone's head isn't gruesome - its played for laughs. You need to have some emphatic connection to guy getting his head chopped.

[Vinyadan]

dog pile your soul

A weirdly worded benediction

[-D-]

A weirdly worded benediction

Dem Bene Geserit, getting into everything.

[Dexam]

So, his curse is la petite mort, and hers is le grand mort?

... I'll show myself out.


Seriously, though, I'm curious to know how does one exactly verify that a "perform X activity or you'll die" curse is legitimate? Without access to any kind of resurrection magic, it's really the kind of thing that you can (and would) only test the once. For all the recipient of the curse knows, the actual curse might be "you believe you need to perform X activity or you'll die".

[Draconi Redfir]

And now there are rape-y curses.

okay, no. Seriously. How?

She consents, she visibly TOLD us that she consents, he consents, he kinda has too if he wants to live, but if he /really/ didn't want too her could just say "no" and die, but as far as we know (considering there has been exactly ONE page on the topic and people are already flipping their nuts.) So how is this anything like that? Yes, there is an overarching force that makes it a requirement, but if both parties consent reguardless then that kind of makes the entire accusation null and void.

Yeesh, if "required to have sex to live" is a problem then do yourself a favour and never read "the Mote in God's Eye", it's all about an entire species of aliens who need to have sex to live.

... or homestuck for that matter.

[SaintRidley]

Because external pressures sort of force her to consent - he's the guaranteed source of fulfilling her curse. Letting him die would jeopardize her life. The curse acts as a form of coercion, and coerced consent isn't consent. The curse is rapey. There's no question about it.

[Lizard Lord]

Because external pressures sort of force her to consent - he's the guaranteed source of fulfilling her curse. Letting him die would jeopardize her life. The curse acts as a form of coercion, and coerced consent isn't consent. The curse is rapey. There's no question about it.

How would letting him die jeopardize herself? He needs her to fulfill his curse of having sex once a day. She doesn't need him to fulfill her curse of "dying" once a day. Suicide is a thing.

And with Forgath there and him knowing about her curse she now has three options.

[Otomodachi]

I love that this character is all explicitly- "Eh, I dunno if we would've done this without the curses but it's pretty good, haha! I'm cool with it, ya know? Why SHOULD I have hang-ups about sex?" and people have to charge in to talk about how terrible it is; like, it really non-sarcastically cracks me up. This isn't a rape situation, this is someone being pretty comfortable with sex.

If she had to, I dunno, do his laundry every day (inconvenient, but not a huge deal) or he'd die, and he had to... I dunno... carry her around in a Yoda backpack (uncomfortable, but manageable) or she died, would anyone be this upset? Don't project YOUR hangups.

[Draconi Redfir]

maglubiyet forbit a female character be comfortable with, open about, or otherwise enjoy sex in a story.


Thunt has stated that the curses will be relevent and important, all we can really do is take his word for it. And hey, maybe they're essentul to shaping up their characters. I myself have a character who had her arm ripped off by an owlbear when she was like, three. As a result she shaped up to be the very person she is today, if she hadn't lost that arm she would have been an entirely different character, not the one i created at all.

[-D-]

okay, no. Seriously. How?

As in a curse that on some level forces you to become rapist. Not to mention that curse itself is mind rape (Not into ladies? Too bad there isn't a cooperative dude in a kilometer, or vice versa).

What if Bunny dies (because this is Thunt)? Do you think Bowst won't just search for nearest orifice? However its unwilling to cooperate?

[Killer Angel]

What if Bunny dies (because this is Thunt)? Do you think Bowst won't just search for nearest orifice? However its unwilling to cooperate?

This is an unpleasant thought. The most unpleasant thing, is that it's not baseless at all.

[Anteros]

It's not unpleasant because a female character is open about sex. You're moving the goalposts. It's unpleasant because the author chose to create a contrived situation where characters (regardless of gender) have no choice except to have sex with each other. The way the characters are acting in their situation is fine, the situation itself is creepy, and it's a bit odd that Thunt thought it would be a good idea to add it to his comic.

Also, knowing Thunt's history with these kind of topics, he's either setting up for Forgath to be forced to have sex with him, or for some rapey betrayal plot where he lied about his curse. Neither one is a particularly appealing plot line.

[Draconi Redfir]

As in a curse that on some level forces you to become rapist.

uhh... pretty sure it doesn't... work... that way... Also, both parties are consenting. So it's kind of... not true at the moment.

Not to mention that curse itself is mind rape (Not into ladies? Too bad there isn't a cooperative dude in a kilometer, or vice versa).

Well that sucks, but he's doing what he needs to do to survive, and also both parties are consenting so...

What if Bunny dies (because this is Thunt)? Do you think Bowst won't just search for nearest orifice? However its unwilling to cooperate?

Well we don't know, maybe this will be a plot point in the future, maybe it won't. until it does though we can't jump to conclusions, you don't go calling someone a criminal before they've actually comitted any crimes.

[Otomodachi]

It's not unpleasant because a female character is open about sex. You're moving the goalposts. It's unpleasant because the author chose to create a contrived situation where characters (regardless of gender) have no choice except to have sex with each other. The way the characters are acting in their situation is fine, the situation itself is creepy, and it's a bit odd that Thunt thought it would be a good idea to add it to his comic.

Also, knowing Thunt's history with these kind of topics, he's either setting up for Forgath to be forced to have sex with him, or for some rapey betrayal plot where he lied about his curse. Neither one is a particularly appealing plot line.

As in a curse that on some level forces you to become rapist. Not to mention that curse itself is mind rape (Not into ladies? Too bad there isn't a cooperative dude in a kilometer, or vice versa).

What if Bunny dies (because this is Thunt)? Do you think Bowst won't just search for nearest orifice? However its unwilling to cooperate?

It's a work of fiction. It is by nature contrived. That's what contrived is.

At least Gex is working from a place of "this situation creeps me out" instead of "THunt always makes things terrible so this can only go one of these ways." You don't know that. Even if you do, if you don't like that, why are you reading the comic?

Gex, I GET your point, or I think I do. This plot thread is making you uncomfortable- sure! It IS weird. But making you uncomfortable doesn't mean it's made to BE uncomfortable, you know? THunt DID knowingly choose to make the story THIS way, and you don't have to like it, definitely not.

But Anteros, D-, these characters have a choices, including death (death is ALWAYS a choice, thanks Dangerous Minds!) and you're not the writer; don't try to tell me you know what's going to happen. That's just disingenuous. We've known Bowst for less than 10 strips at a guess, you think you know what he's going to do? That's silly.

[Otomodachi]

It's a work of fiction. It is by nature contrived. That's what contrived is.

At least Gex is working from a place of "this situation creeps me out" instead of "THunt always makes things terrible so this can only go one of these ways." You don't know that. Even if you do, if you don't like that, why are you reading the comic?

Gex, I GET your point, or I think I do. This plot thread is making you uncomfortable- sure! It IS weird. But making you uncomfortable doesn't mean it's made to BE uncomfortable, you know? THunt DID knowingly choose to make the story THIS way, and you don't have to like it, definitely not.

But Anteros, D-, these characters have a choices, including death (death is ALWAYS a choice, thanks Dangerous Minds!) and you're not the writer; don't try to tell me you know what's going to happen. That's just disingenuous. We've known Bowst for less than 10 strips at a guess, you think you know what he's going to do? That's silly.

EDIT: Plus, what I really don't get is... this type of curse (more like a geas) is ALWAYS coercive, that is literally what they are for! The oldest myth-type one I can think of is the classic "never sleep in the same place twice". This type of curse IS MEANT to force some action to happen; it's DnD that decided to strip that down to "well, it can give these penalties until removed, if the target fails their save" but back in 2nd edition curses were a LOT more freeform. I still have trouble believing there's anything to this other than sexual hangups to varying degrees.

Sex is fun! It feels good! If noone's being hurt, literally no one is being hurt.