An Enemy Spy Reads The Wheel of Time! *golf clap*

[Reddish Mage]

A Deus ex Machina is more something that comes up out of nowhere and saves the day, usually at the climax. Making the hand of fate an explicit part of the in-universe explanation for what's happening from the beginning might strike some as contrived, but its hardly something coming out of left field and late in the game.

[Zaydos]

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Yeah, Ta'veren might be contrived but it's not a true DEM.

That said I'm not sure Elyas is even a result of Ta'veren. He came with the wolves because he felt something, and started following Perrin because he felt it from him. Wolves (and wolfbrothers) in the setting can kind of sense each other, and what he felt was Perrin developing into a wolfbrother. It's actually a sensible reason for him to be here. Of course it could be Ta'veren. Was it simply a coincidence that Elyas and his pack were nearby? Was it in their usual range? It's hard to say. It's easy enough to explain without Ta'veren, but at the same time there is no coincidence when Ta'veren is involved.

And that's the real thing speaking to the good use of Ta'veren in the series. Until it goes full blown it's hard to say if it is doing anything at all, and when it does it's more a matter of having a force of presence which makes people do what you want, and implications that they won't die from random happenstance or a stray arrow... which is true of the non-ta'veren main characters (what chance is there that a stray arrow will kill Egwene or Nyneave?).

[Lethologica]

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Ringworld is apropos to the discussion of ta'veren and luck abilities in narrative. Just throwing it out there.

[Lentrax]

So, as a random aside, for those interested: I am seeking interest for a game using the WotC setting book bullishness years ago. And was hoping to score a couple of players in here.

Plenty of Emonds Field tabac and mulled wine for those that wish to come and join us!

See us over Here if you please.

[An Enemy Spy]

Chapter 24: Flight Down the Arinelle
We're back on the boat with Rand. The journey downriver has been going on for a while, and the crew is getting restless. At first, the fear of trollocs was enough to get them moving but now they're getting tired of the fast pace and hard work the captain is making them do. This isn't helped by the sleeping sentry Rand encountered when he first jumped on the boat(it's called the Spray btw) who is trying to cover up his laziness by calling our heroes Darkfriends who snuck up on him. Youy know how every workplace has that one weaselly guy that always tries to get out of work and is rude to everybody? Yeah, that's this guy and his name is Florin Gelb. If I had a name like that, I'd be bitter too. I bet nobody liked him before and they certainly don't like him now that his laziness could very well have gotten them all killed. As a result, nobody wants to hang out with him and he gets all the crap jobs which only makes him angrier.

Rand has another dream with the Dark One in it, if these can really be called dreams. In it, he's in an inescapable maze where the Dark One is stalking him. He's been having these dreams every night. While he has trouble navigating the maze, for now it seems that the Dark One is having similar difficulty because he hasn't caught Rand yet. Of course, it's also likely that he's just toying with him. Rand goes through a wall of thorns and pricks his thumb. Remember this, because it will be important later. After some wandering around he comes face to face with the Dark One, who for some reason is always referred to as Ba'alzamon in the dream sequences. If anyone can give me a nonspoilery explanation for why Shai'tan is called different things at different times, I'd love to hear it. Anyway, the same scene as usual occurs, the Dark One tells him that Rand is his, bad stuff will happen, Rand goes "no, this is a dream!", weird stuff happens and Rand wakes up with a bloody finger. See, it was important.

Thom is a veteran at judging the moods of people, and while he does what he can to keep the crew happy and morale high, he also knows when it's time to not be noticed, and he can see how things are souring on board the Spray. He warns the two boys that if the crew mutinies, they won't leave behind any passengers to rat them out to the nearest authorities. Until that happens, he trains Mat in Rand in his gleeman craft to help with the cover that they're his apprentices.

The boat passes by a big metal tower with no doors, and Mat thinks it must be filled with treasure. Captain Domon talks at length aboout all the myterios and wonderful things there are to see in the world; a giant stone hand on the isle of Tremalking, the place of Tanchico with the bones of animals no one has ever seen before, an island covered in crystal lattice, a mountain hollwed into a bowl with a tall silver spike that if you go within a mile of will die, ruins at the bottom of the sea. Neat stuff, and with a series this long I wouldn't be surprised if we see some of it for ourselves. It's a wide world out there, and once you've seen it you can never go back to herding sheep. Rand halfheartedly insists that he's going back as soon as this business is over but Mat is acting funny.

He's been surly and stand offish for some time, and we find out he's been carrying a golden dagger from the treasure hoard in Aridhol. He says the curse doesn't apply because he took it rather than having been given it, either ignoring or forgetting the part where Mordeth told them they could take whatever they wanted. Yeah, Mat is cursed and going mad, and he is going to cause some real trouble down the line.

Rand performs some acrobatics on top of the mast without even noticing it and everyone thinks that weird, including himself. And with that weirdness, our chapter ends.

And as post recap note, I hate the word weird. I before E except after C, my ass.

[industrious]

The reason why the Dark One is referred to by different names is partially cultural, but partially pratical. Shai'tan is the true name of the Dark One, but saying it invites his attention, which is never a good thing. As such, people give him other names in order to refer to him safely.

[Psyren]

If anyone can give me a nonspoilery explanation for why Shai'tan is called different things at different times, I'd love to hear it.

Sure: Ba'alzamon is the Trolloc language - that's what trollocs call him. It's far enough removed from his real name (Shai'tan, rhymes with Satan) that some folks feel comfortable saying it. The going myth is that actually saying his real name attracts very unwelcome attention.

There is a little more to it than that, but that would start to get into the spoilery territory. Suffice to say that you shouldn't take everything you see (or the characters believe) in the dream sequences at face value; just try to hang onto as many details as you can, or at least bookmark them.

The boat passes by a big metal tower with no doors, and Mat thinks it must be filled with treasure. Captain Domon talks at length aboout all the myterios and wonderful things there are to see in the world; a giant stone hand on the isle of Tremalking, the place of Tanchico with the bones of animals no one has ever seen before, an island covered in crystal lattice, a mountain hollwed into a bowl with a tall silver spike that if you go within a mile of will die, ruins at the bottom of the sea. Neat stuff, and with a series this long I wouldn't be surprised if we see some of it for ourselves. It's a wide world out there, and once you've seen it you can never go back to herding sheep. Rand halfheartedly insists that he's going back as soon as this business is over but Mat is acting funny.

By the way, that thing I said about hanging onto details? This, all of this.

And as post recap note, I hate the word weird. I before E except after C, my ass.

"Except in 'ay' words like neighbor or weigh." Weird isn't quite one of those but it's closer to that than being a long "e"

[Lethologica]

'Weird' definitely uses a long-e sound. Say 'weird', then say 'thief'; same sound, except the latter may be a bit less nasal. I before E is a junk principle to begin with.

My reaction to the captain's speech is something along the lines of "Oh, look, level-gated adventures."

[Traab]

I always pronounce weird with a hard e, was that wrong? But yeah, english sucks, even the rhymes that tell you the spelling order and its exceptions has freaking exceptions. I mean COME ON! Also, as was said, thats the trolloc version of the devils name. You are going to hear a LOT of names, as pretty much every nation has at least one name they use to refer to him. And yeah, using his real name is frowned upon. I always thought of him as "You Know Who" just for amusement's sake.

[tonberrian]

Yep, the Dark One has a bunch of names, usually representing what that culture fears and hates. Sightblinder, Leafblighter, Father of Lies, Father of Storms, Heartfang, Grassburner, Lighteater, and quite a few more.

[An Enemy Spy]

Shai'tan is pronounced 'Shay-tin'? I've been calling him 'Shy-tan'. I also pronounce trolloc as tro-lok.

[Douglas]

The boat passes by a big metal tower with no doors, and Mat thinks it must be filled with treasure. Captain Domon talks at length aboout all the myterios and wonderful things there are to see in the world; a giant stone hand on the isle of Tremalking, the place of Tanchico with the bones of animals no one has ever seen before, an island covered in crystal lattice, a mountain hollwed into a bowl with a tall silver spike that if you go within a mile of will die, ruins at the bottom of the sea. Neat stuff, and with a series this long I wouldn't be surprised if we see some of it for ourselves.

Of the six things you mention here (including the big metal tower), I recognize some of them as plot relevant later, but others are just background.

Some background on how those ruins got to be under the sea (no comment on whether they're plot relevant): Lews Therin grew up in a world where saidin was clean. He was a male Aes Sedai, highly trained and practiced, and there were thousands, probably tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands more, in the height of the Age of Legends' utopian prosperity. And when the Taint came, every single one of them either died or went insane. And the rest didn't have Elan Morin to give them a moment of sanity to kill themselves in. Imagine 10,000 people like the Lews Therin of the prologue, each one free to commit more and more acts of insanity until stopped by force, and each wielding power great enough to destroy a city in moments. There's a reason that period of time is called The Breaking of the World.

Rand performs some acrobatics on top of the mast without even noticing it and everyone thinks that weird, including himself. And with that weirdness, our chapter ends.

I'm curious, do you have any guesses for why Rand did such a weird thing?

And as post recap note, I hate the word weird. I before E except after C, my ass.

Really, there are so many exceptions to that rule that the only reliable way to handle it is memorizing them all.

[Seerow]

By the way, that thing I said about hanging onto details? This, all of this.

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I can only think of like 1 of the things mentioned that the characters actually see, the giant stone hand. Even then I'm not sure it's the same stone hand that's mentioned, it could be referencing the one on the island where all of the people commit suicide after the cleansing. Which we only know about due to cutscene and later reference by the Wavemistresses, no PoV character that I can recall ever visits it.

[Kitten Champion]

Sure: Ba'alzamon is the Trolloc language - that's what trollocs call him. It's far enough removed from his real name (Shai'tan, rhymes with Satan) that some folks feel comfortable saying it. The going myth is that actually saying his real name attracts very unwelcome attention.

Shai'tan's also the Islamic term for the Devil - sort of - though it shares the same origin with Satan.

Have to say, settling on "The Dark One" is worlds better than Harry Potter's "You-Know-Who" or "He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named" as far as euphemisms go.

[Douglas]

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I can only think of like 1 of the things mentioned that the characters actually see, the giant stone hand. Even then I'm not sure it's the same stone hand that's mentioned, it could be referencing the one on the island where all of the people commit suicide after the cleansing. Which we only know about due to cutscene and later reference by the Wavemistresses, no PoV character that I can recall ever visits it.

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The big metal tower, which they're passing by right now rather than just having it mentioned, is the Tower of Ghenjei, which Mat eventually enters in order to rescue Moiraine. The giant stone hand is the only above-ground part of the female Choedan Kal, the ultimate sa'angreal that Rand and Nynaeve use to cleanse saidin. The collection in Tanchico is, I believe, the one Nynaeve visits and finds a seal on the Dark One's prison in. The other three I don't recall showing up.

[mangosta71]

Shai'tan is pronounced 'Shay-tin'? I've been calling him 'Shy-tan'. I also pronounce trolloc as tro-lok.

I always pronounced it the same way. And trolloc like trollop except for the terminal sound, because that way amuses me.

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I can only think of like 1 of the things mentioned that the characters actually see, the giant stone hand. Even then I'm not sure it's the same stone hand that's mentioned, it could be referencing the one on the island where all of the people commit suicide after the cleansing. Which we only know about due to cutscene and later reference by the Wavemistresses, no PoV character that I can recall ever visits it.

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Yes, it is explicitly the hand of the female Choedan Kal. We have a brief POV of someone sitting on the beach watching it during the Cleansing, because its activation was linked in her culture's prophecies of the end of the world (which is likely what triggered the mass suicide that we hear about from the Wavemistress). The palace of Tanchico (with the mammoth skeleton) features in Elayne and Nynaeve's adventures there. I don't recall the island covered in crystal lattice (unless it's a reference to Tar Valon, but I would expect Domon to refer to it by name) or the spike in the mountain, and I don't know how anyone would have seen ruins on the bottom of the sea as I didn't think anyone in the setting had developed diving gear, but the Aes Sedai (and anyone else with access to historical libraries) should know about the existence of cities that sank during the Breaking.

[Seerow]

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The big metal tower, which they're passing by right now rather than just having it mentioned, is the Tower of Ghenjei, which Mat eventually enters in order to rescue Moiraine. The giant stone hand is the only above-ground part of the female Choedan Kal, the ultimate sa'angreal that Rand and Nynaeve use to cleanse saidin. The collection in Tanchico is, I believe, the one Nynaeve visits and finds a seal on the Dark One's prison in. The other three I don't recall showing up.

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Yeah I wasn't counting the Tower, since they were obviously already looking at it. The Choden Kal was the only 1 that any named character may have seen that I mentioned (and even then, it being on an island points at it being the Choden Kal that no named character ever visits in person. Rand gets to see the one closer to Andor, but for the most part the characters interact with the keystones not the Choden Kal themselves.

You're right about the Tanchico collection though. I had completely forgotten about that. For some reason I was thinking it was referring to just a place where people had dug up dinosaur fossils, rather than a big museum. That particular location has a lot of other fun Easter eggs buried in it tying WoT back to our own world, if I recall correctly.

[mangosta71]

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Yeah I wasn't counting the Tower, since they were obviously already looking at it. The Choden Kal was the only 1 that any named character may have seen that I mentioned (and even then, it being on an island points at it being the Choden Kal that no named character ever visits in person. Rand gets to see the one closer to Andor, but for the most part the characters interact with the keystones not the Choden Kal themselves.

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Yes, the one on Tremalking is the female Choedan Kal, and we never get a named character POV of it, though obviously named characters (Bayle Domon being one) have seen it at some point. The male one is in Cairhien somewhere near the city; you may recall that Rand looking at it during book 2 was thought to be part of Daes Dae'mar.

[Psyren]

To the folks correcting me - part of "all of this" was so he wouldn't know which ones were actually important. Spoilers, remember?

Shai'tan is pronounced 'Shay-tin'? I've been calling him 'Shy-tan'. I also pronounce trolloc as tro-lok.

Shay-tan. There's a pronunciation guide in the back of one of the books. (Crossroads?)

[Seerow]

To the folks correcting me - part of "all of this" was so he wouldn't know which ones were actually important. Spoilers, remember?

Wasn't trying to correct, was trying to figure out if there were others I had forgotten about. Incidentally, there was at least one!

[An Enemy Spy]

I'm curious, do you have any guesses for why Rand did such a weird thing?

Well, I am 100% sure that Rand is the Dragon, so I'm guessing it's a skill he had in a past life that's starting to come to the fore.

[tiornys]

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Well, I am 100% sure that Rand is the Dragon, so I'm guessing it's a skill he had in a past life that's starting to come to the fore.

I can't help but think that this guess is completely on the nose, but probably not in ways that An Enemy Spy is thinking about just yet.

[Seerow]

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I can't help but think that this guess is completely on the nose, but probably not in ways that An Enemy Spy is thinking about just yet.

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I went and looked it up... apparently it's a reaction to his channeling. Which is not a connection I would have made at all with doing random acrobatics. I thought it was supposed to make you sickly?

[Zaydos]

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I went and looked it up... apparently it's a reaction to his channeling. Which is not a connection I would have made at all with doing random acrobatics. I thought it was supposed to make you sickly?

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Holding the one power makes you sort of high on life and especially saidin makes you sort of showboat-y so that's what I eventually figured it was.

[tiornys]

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I went and looked it up... apparently it's a reaction to his channeling. Which is not a connection I would have made at all with doing random acrobatics. I thought it was supposed to make you sickly?

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IIRC, this is the second such reaction. The first was the showdown with the Whitecloaks in Baerlon (after he lends strength to Bela during their ride from Emond's Field).

[An Enemy Spy]

Chapter 25: The Traveling People
Elyas leads Perrin and Egwene along with Dapple Hopper and Wind. Burn has gone off to wherever the rest of the wolfpack is. Dapple has the other wolves staying back, but Perrin knows exactly where they are by instinct. He's not really sure about this whole wolf thing, but I think he should embrace it. Being a wolfman would be so cool.

Perrin's been having Shai'tan dreams too, but in his a wolf is always standing guard and the Dark One can't approach. I'm starting to wonder if wolves are really just animals in this series, or if they're some kind of magical creature. It's already been established that wolves and trollocs hate each other and they seem opposed to the Dark One in some way.

They run into a few giant mastiffs who growl menacingly at them but Elyas easily gets the dogs to calm down and follows them to the Tinkers.

The Tinkers are gypsies. There's really no other way to put it. They have no lands, travel in caravans, dress in flamboyantly colored shawls, love to dance, and people make up stories about them stealing children. They're gypsies. The Tinkers are called that because they are experts at fixing things, so good that they make them better than they ever were. People tolerate them because of this, but they don't really like them. They welcome Elyas but they don't seem to like him or his wolves that much. Raen, the leader ask Elyas if he knows the song, and Elyas says no. The Tinkers travel the world, looking for a specific song that will bring back the Age of Legends when the world was a paradise. They don't know what the song is but they'll know it when they hear it.

They meet Raen's wife, Ila, who takes a shine to Egwene, as does Aram, a guy about her age who's apparently quite the lady's man. He reminds Perrin of a guy in the Two Rivers named Wil, and not in a good way. So Perrin is bothered by another guy liking Egwene? Something's brewing here.

Rael explains the Tinker philosophy to Perrin, the Way of the Leaf. The Tinkers are pacifists, they don't even fight to defend themselves. He gives an analogy of an axe chopping down the trees. The axe may kill the tree, but it also gets dulled and rusted. Violence hurts everyone, even the one doing it, so to commit violence of any kind. There's a term for people like this. It's "Easy Target". I won't get into my philosophy on violence but let's just say I think the Way of the Leaf is a load of garbage. Perrin agrees with me.

People who don't follow the Way have to leave and go in villages, and are called the Lost. Yeah. Apparently the Tinkers aren't big on divergent points of view.

Thjey talk about the people of the Aeil Waste, who are basically the polar opposites of the Tinkers. They only sing war songs, and like to go off into the Blight to hunt trollocs. The Tinkers ran into a group of warrior women who along with a whole mess of trollocs were all dead except for one. She tells them the Leafblighter means to blind the Eye of the World and slay the Great Serpent, and that they need to warn the people to stand ready for He Who Comes With the Dawn. Nobody knows what that's supposed to mean.

The Leafblighter is of course the Dark One. I don't know what this Eye of the World is, but I know it's important because it's the name of the book, which means that this specific thing she's talking about will likely go down in this novel. Don't have a clue what the Great Serpent is, or who He Who Comes With the Dawn is supposed to be. Is it the Dragon? I'm sure we'll find out by the time this book is over.

[Psyren]

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IIRC, this is the second such reaction. The first was the showdown with the Whitecloaks in Baerlon (after he lends strength to Bela during their ride from Emond's Field).

Yep, nailed it.

I'm starting to wonder if wolves are really just animals in this series, or if they're some kind of magical creature.

They're special in this setting.

The Leafblighter is of course the Dark One. I don't know what this Eye of the World is, but I know it's important because it's the name of the book, which means that this specific thing she's talking about will likely go down in this novel. Don't have a clue what the Great Serpent is, or who He Who Comes With the Dawn is supposed to be. Is it the Dragon? I'm sure we'll find out by the time this book is over.

You can probably guess that last one.

[Douglas]

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I went and looked it up... apparently it's a reaction to his channeling. Which is not a connection I would have made at all with doing random acrobatics. I thought it was supposed to make you sickly?

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The reactions vary. Quoting from Moiraine's explanation in chapter 21:

Perhaps fever and chills that came on suddenly and put you to bed, then disappeared after only a few hours. None of the reactions, and they vary, lasts more than a few hours. Headaches and numbness and exhilaration all mixed together, and you taking foolish chances or acting giddy. A spell of dizziness, when you tripped and stumbled whenever you tried to move, when you could not say a sentence without your tongue mangling half the words. There are others.

The first time Rand channeled was to remove Bela's fatigue during their flight. Why Bela and not his own horse? Because Egwene, who he cared about a great deal, was on Bela. When Moiraine did it for all the horses, she found Bela didn't need it - because Rand had already done it. The reaction to that was Rand's confrontation with the Whitecloaks.

The second time was moving a boom on the ship to save himself from a trolloc. This incident just past was his reaction to that.

[LokeyITP]

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Alviarin visits Tremalking. Lots of important bits in those 3 pages of fluff in CoT.

It's the main problem with discussing the series. There's just so much detail, and a great deal of it is skewed through the character that relates it as well as the pile of red herrings RJ throws in, nobody can keep much of it straight. Including the authors :)

[Psyren]

It's the main problem with discussing the series. There's just so much detail, and a great deal of it is skewed through the character that relates it as well as the pile of red herrings RJ throws in, nobody can keep much of it straight. Including the authors :)

Worse still, this thing started before crowdsourced minutiae-tracking (read: Wikis) were a thing. Hell, search engines were barely a thing. So even if I noticed {insert cool detail that explains/foreshadows longstanding fan conundrum} buried on a page, I'd have no way of sharing it with the wider fandom, and even if I posted it to my Geocities page, it was a crapshoot whether anyone would find it.

Nowadays, burying these kind of details is much harder for authors because the tools available for the eagle-eyed fans to suss them out are so numerous.

But red herrings (un)fortunately still work.