OOTS #998 - The Discussion Thread

[The Pilgrim]

Loki, you have my vote.

I love how the Good Gods don't give a crap about mortal life... neither the Evil Gods, but at least they have grown a spine.

[Peelee]

Hm -- previously I was wondering whether Hel was on the "destroy" or the "save" side. (Or possibly unaligned and just intended to use her vote to trade favors.)

But if souls destroyed in the world's end move on to the afterlife, then it seems pretty clear Hel will be on the "destroy" side. That's a lot of souls she'd gain from ending the world...

Huh. What purpose does having those souls serve? Like, in the Nine Hells and Abyss, they can be used as currency or power or something like that, but does Hel's afterlife work similarly to this? What benefit does she gain from having a more populated afterlife?

[NerdyKris]

This just makes me wish the comics in the archive were dated (are they, somewhere?), because I think back to a totally different swath of my life when I first read the Snarl story and thought how cool it was, and now I'm seeing part of the payoff.

Cool god art, too.

The Discussion Thread Index will show you when each comic was posted

[bubba0077]

I wonder why everyone's afraid to say "Snarl".

The whole Snarl thing was being kept secret by the gods. I assume they are continuing that secrecy.

[blunk]

Err on the side of caution. Information blackout is still in effect, so far as we know.

Probably. It may also serve to keep readers wondering if it's really the Snarl, until the last minute.

I was still thinking it wasn't the Snarl myself, but then:

Also, gods of different pantheons do not meet in person anymore, lest any debates or squabbles turn into Snarl Jr.

... which really confirms the original story, doesn't it?

[kivzirrum]

Probably. It may also serve to keep readers wondering if it's really the Snarl, until the last minute.

I was still thinking it wasn't the Snarl myself, but then:

... which really confirms the original story, doesn't it?

I feel that all it confirms is that the Snarl is there and was, more or less, made the way we were told. The existence of the Snarl, if nothing else, was confirmed near the conclusion of the last arc/book.

[hroþila]

... which really confirms the original story, doesn't it?

It also suggests that Tiger was REALLY mad at Thor to pay him a visit in person.

[Peelee]

It also suggests that Tiger was REALLY mad at Thor to pay him a visit in person.

Other way around; it was Thor what was meeting Tiger. At least, that's how I read it; Thor was approaching the "Southern lands" part of godworld, and Tiger was playing border guard.

[Rodin]

It also suggests that Tiger was REALLY mad at Thor to pay him a visit in person.

I guess the reason is that 2-3 Gods = an argument, while all the Gods together would devolve into outright war. So the times we see more than one God together they're either broadly allied (Thor and Odin), settling personal differences between just the two of them (Thor and Loki, mostly), or dealing with conflicts of interest relating to their Godly jobs (arguing with Hel over who gets a soul, Tiger enforcing jurisdiction rules, etc.)

Everything else gets left to the clerics. For a big meeting, the Gods watch the Clerics as a kind of...conference call.

[foobar1969]

Oh come on, are we ignoring the high priest of Heimdall here ? Marvel citations incoming

Hah. My swordsage made his stealth check and scored a hit in the surprise round.

Although I appear to have missed on Veldrina.

[hroþila]

Other way around; it was Thor what was meeting Tiger. At least, that's how I read it; Thor was approaching the "Southern lands" part of godworld, and Tiger was playing border guard.

You're right. Well that's just 8 years of misinterpreting that strip for me.

[Shining Wrath]

The gods can only hear each other? Well, darn.

Good speech, Roy.

HPoH says ... nothing. And it sounds as though Hel doesn't clean up - or maybe she does?

The other pantheons must be voting at the same time, and Veldrina will convey the vote of the Western pantheon. I'm betting on the Elves, at least, to be patient. Elves usually are.

Unless the Northern Pantheon is willing to pull the plug on the word all by themselves. Can they do that? Probably.

EDIT: Vote Loki 2016? I've just got to say, Loki strikes me as a .. shall we say ... QUALITY candidate.

[The Recreator]

Holy crap on a stick, I think I can see the endgame approaching.

Spoiler: Endgame Predictions

Show

The gods are going to vote "yea" on destroying the world. Comic #1000 is rapidly approaching, and a vote to keep the status quo for another week doesn't exactly make for milestone material. Belkar's prophecy will come true, but it will be irrelevant - the entire adventure party is about to move to the afterlife.

Hel's not here just to cast a vote though (she'll probably vote "yea"), nor is she trying to subvert the voting process. She's here to claim that Death by Critical Existence Failure is grounds for every dwarves' soul released from this event to go directly to her - there's nothing honorable about ceasing to exist. Gods are fueled by worship and soul ownership, and having an entire species on her side may give Hel enough power to become the strongest deity in the Northern Pantheon.

Apologies if this all has been mentioned in this thread already, but I wanted to get it off my chest.

[Dusk Eclipse]

I must be blind, I only realized today that the High Priest of Odin is in fact a woman. I also love all the other bodyguards, the Giant really did a great job with them. The Clerics too.

[VanFanel]

Ohhhhh!
I love the trial scene shown with the new art in Roy's flashback! And the whole cathedral and the huge god-proxies are gorgeous (even if my wife is disappointed that Loki doesn't wear green, I tried to explain her that this is the original Loki from Norse religion, but she still prefers Tom Hiddleston. At least she adores Little Whiskers!).

Oh, and of course the plot gives palpitations, I can't wait for the next comic!

[Ralanr]

I'll cast my vote in with Loki.

Though there is one thing that bugs me. Sure all the souls are safely brought through the afterlife, but can they be brought back to life as the same person they were upon death? Or will 1% of them become badgers?

[Jasdoif]

The Discussion Thread Index will show you when each comic was posted

Yeah. Or, if you don't need the exact date, the copyright year at the bottom of the comic strips themselves works too.

I was still thinking it wasn't the Snarl myself, but then:

Also, gods of different pantheons do not meet in person anymore, lest any debates or squabbles turn into Snarl Jr.

... which really confirms the original story, doesn't it?

Well, it confirms that the gods agree with the general gist of the story we've been told, at least.

[Giggling Ghast]

I love how the Good Gods don't give a crap about mortal life...

They do; Heimdall even says their deaths are regrettable. The Good Gods just recognize that their sacrifice may be necessary; the unleashing of the Snarl will mean the deaths of everyone on the planet anyway, and unlike the victims of a divine apocalypse, those people will not go on to an afterlife.

[Ezekiel]

I'll cast my vote in with Loki.

Though there is one thing that bugs me. Sure all the souls are safely brought through the afterlife, but can they be brought back to life as the same person they were upon death? Or will 1% of them become badgers?

They stay dead.

[Vrock_Summoner]

Holy crap!

I mean, holy crap at everything, but most importantly... How did a comic with this art and writing come out in three days!?

Rich Burlew, you are hereby promoted to Overdeity. Step aside, Ao.

Regarding the strip itself... The thing about the gods not hearing Roy, well, I was disheartened by it, at least after I stopped laughing hysterically. I really like Roy, and I think he delivered that speech very well, so it's a true shame if none of the gods heard him. I'm hoping one or more of the gods was just watching (maybe they recorded it on the TeeVo? ) and it ends up changing their vote so that what would've been a one vote lead for destroying the world becomes a one vote lead on giving the mortals one last chance to fix everything. But I recognize that Rich probably has something planned that's simultaneously more logical and more unpredictable for us as an audience, and that will be more satisfying than anything I can come up with. Because he's an amazing author, and we are mere peons basking in the glory of his craftsmanship.

[Legato Endless]

I feel that all it confirms is that the Snarl is there and was, more or less, made the way we were told. The existence of the Snarl, if nothing else, was confirmed near the conclusion of the last arc/book.

I think the twist is going to be that while the story is mostly accurate, we're missing some crucial context that redefines things. The simplest change being that the Snarl never bothered destroying the original world, and perhaps more speculatively had no grudge against the mortals who lived there. Note that we never actually hear the release of it-who-shall-not-be-named is never couched in terms of negative consequences for the mortals, just the Gods.

Heimdall: My fellow deities, we must protect ourselves.

His following comment on the souls isn't stated to be protecting them, it's more a justification that while what follows if they do this will be unpleasant, it's not really a big deal. In fact, his comment that losing their followers corporeal bodies being unfortunate seems bizarre no? If the Snarl is going to obliterate everything anyway, that's not a real cost. Why rationalize it?

Huh. What purpose does having those souls serve? Like, in the Nine Hells and Abyss, they can be used as currency or power or something like that, but does Hel's afterlife work similarly to this? What benefit does she gain from having a more populated afterlife?

Power, according to the HPOH. He describes it here only in terms of the mass death, but the soul being the thing that's actually desired would explain why Hel argues constantly with Thor about them.

[Shining Wrath]

Seeing how some of them acted before, I wouldn't put the possibility of them simply not thinking about such a solution completely out of the question ;)

So it's not their potency which is insufficiently omni, but their science?

[Witty Username]

Destroying the world does look like safest option for it's inhabitants. And if we believe in motives of the Dark One, it is an option that might fix the way thing work between world inhabitants for the better. Well, "better" being quite relative, to be honest...

Giving the world a chance is risky. But I can't say how risky "10-15 min to spare" is for the gods. Loki, being trickster god he is, is not a really reliable source for time estimations.

I vote Yes, if waiting for last gate resolution is too much of a gamble and No, But Then Totally Yes If Things Go South if risk is manageable.

Unless waiting gives Redcloak enough time to weaponize Snarl and then force gods to, uhhhh... recreate the world anyway? I think I forgot some of the details on The Plan.

Hm. With world destroyed on spot, there is no reason to not make new world carbon copy of previous one, including alignment questions or else Dark One's blackmail plan would be pointless.

So... The only way for evil gods and their worshippers to get a better deal in the new world is to roll along with Redcloak & co.

And if Roy wants to cancel selfdestruct sequence immediately, he is helping Evil side to get a hold on ultimate anti-god weapon.

And I don't remember comic giving any proof that it will actually be used in a fair and honest manner.

I vote Yes.

I think this is the outcome the Dark One wants. Stong Arm the Gods into rebuilding the world is exactly what is happening here, so Redcloak may not even be required for the plan as presented anymore. That being said maybe the Dark one wants to destroy the other gods and build his own world the the old ones place. I wonder how Redcloak would react to the possibility that he is just a puppet for petty revenge.

[Shining Wrath]

I wonder why everyone's afraid to say "Snarl".

"Speak of the devil, and he appears" may be literally true. Not for Roy - but for a god, yes.

[ratfox]

Oh god, that last image… If only we could see Durkula and have some idea of what he's doing!

I expect that chapter 999 will end on the biggest cliffhanger ever, and chapter 1000 will be epic.

[Fellow]

Roy just aknowledged just how easily these clerics could deal with Xykon, effectively killing them. Back on the ship, Elan suddenly gets a migraine.

[Doug Lampert]

Huh. What purpose does having those souls serve? Like, in the Nine Hells and Abyss, they can be used as currency or power or something like that, but does Hel's afterlife work similarly to this? What benefit does she gain from having a more populated afterlife?

In traditional Norse Mythology the souls Hel collects are her army for Ragnarok.

[Tass]

Ok, here is my thinking on this. These are the gods of the main pantheons right? What stops them from using their diving gifts to basically shift everyone and everything off the planet into another plane, obliterate the world and reform it, then shift everyone back? Or even just create them a new world on a new plane instead? Once again, all gods working in concert should be able to pull that off fairly easily and Snarl solved.

Because not everyone on the planet are aquatic? Also I never knew the gods were great divers, you learn so much.

[Gwynfrid]

Such a splendid comic. And I love it that the evil god is voting against destruction, while the good one is in favor.

Also, I'd love to see the primary debates for the 2016 Supreme God election (both for the Good and the Evil party candidates)

[Ralanr]

They stay dead.

Sucks for mortals who enjoyed living.

I think this is the outcome the Dark One wants. Stong Arm the Gods into rebuilding the world is exactly what is happening here, so Redcloak may not even be required for the plan as presented anymore. That being said maybe the Dark one wants to destroy the other gods and build his own world the the old ones place. I wonder how Redcloak would react to the possibility that he is just a puppet for petty revenge.

Well he's serving his god and I believe he wouldn't care as long as the outcome strengthened Goblin kind.

More character development might change that.