Strong Female Protagonist II

[Leewei]

Psychobabble, maybe? I dunno, it's wordy, but the situation seems pretty clear to me.

[Nettlekid]

Yeah, I'd say it's written actually pretty well. It makes sense, and I agree with the message. I've met people who act like they're superior because they live a life based on what they call logic rather than being emotionally driven, but that "logic" is based on assigning values based tacitly on emotional judgments rather than actual logic which would have exactly one answer. This is solid.

[Ibrinar]

I find it always a bit weird when a character is speechifying about something blindingly obvious. I mean of course logic can't provide its own goals/priorities. But I guess since there are people that think like that it is isn't obvious to everyone.

[Dragonus45]

I mean, there is nothing wrong with living logically or using logic as a basis for how you want to live your life. It certainly is better then some people I see floating around the internet who seem to think that personal feelings are the overriding force of the universe.

[Ibrinar]

Living logically in a non stupid way is acting on your goals/motivations in logical ways. Pretending the goals themselves are a product of pure logic is not logical. It is a response to the "cleansed of irrational desires" stuff which usually is a rather illogical standpoint. (Of course subgoals can be a product of logic. I you want to lead a life of leisure logic can give you goals which would allow that. And sometimes you can use it to recognize that a desire for X is actually based on an underlying desire for Y and you should better strive to fulfill Y. There just aren't any underlying axioms to derive goals from directly. )

[Vinyadan]

Well, it is written in an interesting way. Ali is channelling very well the model of "undergraduate outraged by your ignorance". So "OMG read a book", "Gross", "scared infant", and then some more-or-less specialised language like "basic cognition", "emotional input", "prompt", "prioritize", "judgement call", "craft a logical statement", "process" (the last ones I think really are industry buzzwords).

The obvious problem with the dialogue/monologue is that a long, angry comment on a blog isn't normal speech.

[Ibrinar]

Not common but people can and do speak like that sometimes if nobody interrupts. Mostly I think it is too long of a speech it should have given her plenty of time to start smashing. But talking is a free action applies I guess.

[danelsan]

Well, it is written in an interesting way. Ali is channelling very well the model of "undergraduate outraged by your ignorance".

Which I find pretty funny in a horrible* kind of way, in that Patrick likely has the memories of hundreds of people more scholarly advanced than Alison, a number of which he has gone through the effort of properly absorbing and integrating as knowledge of his own. If he wasn't more interested in destroying her for real, he should be easily able to "destroy" her in debate.




*I mean, you have the most complex mental problem in history. Someone is gonna forcefully apply a treatment to you after they decided they know what is best for you in an "eureka" moment. Who would you rather have that person be: someone highly educated and experienced in fields such as psychiatry or neurology...or a first-year philosophy student (who is also a former child-soldier going through issues of their own)?

[Ibrinar]

She totally isn't qualified for this. But no matter how many smart peoples minds he read you can't really destroy someone in an argument when they are right. At least not when it is based on relatively simple logic instead of something with a strong subjective component. Well if they don't pay attention you can just shift the topic to something where you could, of course. Like for instance that she has no real idea what destroying the wall will do.

[Lethologica]

The story's dialogue shortcuts are noticeable, and Anima (being a portion of Patrick's surface rationality) should have access to some significant portion of Patrick's philosophical knowledge. But while a few more panels to properly portray Anima's flawed thinking would be nice, it would still end up here, because the thinking is still flawed.

[BRC]

I mean, remember that Anima isn't a full person. She's a metaphor for part of Patrick's shattered psyche. So, even if she "Knows" all the same philosophy that Allison is quoting, that doesn't mean it applies to her.

Anima claims that Menace is a "False, Idealized Self" created by Patrick, while she is Patrick's "Truest, Most Rational, Logical Self".

I think she's right about Menace, but wrong about herself.

Let's unpack the metaphor.
Lord Boy is Patrick, controlling the Tower means deciding which "Idealized Self" Patrick will be. Lord Boy looks like Patrick as a child because his inner decision-making processes haven't really changed since then.

Menace is Patrick after he cut out everything that didn't lend himself to survival. Any desire for love and companionship. Patrick as the Big Bad Supervillain.

Anima claims to be "Patrick, without any irrational desires", but, reading back through the flashbacks , it seems like this "Hyperrationality" was exactly what led to Menace in the first place. Clear out everything "Not Useful", and the end result was a Supervillain.

Patrick is basically stuck between "Be a Supervillain" (menace rules the tower) and "Be Hyper-rational" which basically just leads to being a supervillain.

So, even if Patrick knows that "Clearing one's mind of irrational desires" is in itself Irrational, Anima is a metaphor for the part of his mind that wants to do that.

[Onyavar]

Will Patrick survive that?

The whole Red river does implicate something, no?

[Vinyadan]

Personally I'd feel more like wondering if Ali will survive this, since IIRC she's been bleeding for a while. And if Feral will ever wake up... wait, did we just find her magical anaesthesia? Patrick?

But, yes, while his mind is healed, the question is how his body will react to all these new things pumping everywhere.

[Kish]

The river is Component. Which, if Alison's reading of the difference between Tara's mind and Patrick's is correct, is an essential component (so to speak) of a healthy mind--something that needs to be allowed to flow everywhere, with bottling it up being the definition of unhealthy.

[137beth]

I'm curious how this is going to look on the outside of mind-world.

[Vinyadan]

What a lady!

[The Glyphstone]

My guess:

Spoiler

Show

Patrick hands his gun to Dad, who shoots his wife in revenge before dying. The whole thing looks like a murder suicide, never connected to Menace at all.

[Honest Tiefling]

Does Patrick dye his hair? I know this is probably a silly point, but getting such dark hair out of two people with fair hair does seem like he was adopted at some point. I wouldn't consider this much of a plot point, but Mama Menance has showed some VERY troubling behavior and many suspected metahumans went missing as children...

[virgileso]

Does Patrick dye his hair? I know this is probably a silly point, but getting such dark hair out of two people with fair hair does seem like he was adopted at some point. I wouldn't consider this much of a plot point, but Mama Menance has showed some VERY troubling behavior and many suspected metahumans went missing as children...

My ginger wife was born of a full-blooded Iroquois and an olive-skinned German immigrant with brown hair. There were three paternity tests. Genetics allows for some crazy things.

[Honest Tiefling]

My ginger wife was born of a full-blooded Iroquois and an olive-skinned German immigrant with brown hair. There were three paternity tests. Genetics allows for some crazy things.

Oh, it's certainly not impossible. But he doesn't exactly resemble either parent in any other sense, especially not with height. But that could be a quirk of his memory, he remembers his parents as being VERY different from himself.

[Vinyadan]

They're also well fed, while he's still young and lean.

[Deliverance]

Okay. I didn't see that coming. So Patrick can (or could) change somebody's mind with his power. Obviously to large effect, though the precise level of control is unknown. I can't wait to see where the story takes this.

[Honest Tiefling]

Okay. I didn't see that coming. So Patrick can (or could) change somebody's mind with his power. Obviously to large effect, though the precise level of control is unknown. I can't wait to see where the story takes this.

It might very well be that he can enact change, but not with precision or within normal human parameters. Considering that it is clear that she has antisocial personality disorder, I don't think you can just shove a bunch of empathy onto someone and have it work.

Through, I do note that Patrick's boy persona ALSO lacked people and was made of geometric shapes without plant life. But maybe that's just a coincidence.

[The Glyphstone]

Could Patrick's internal mindscape with all its compartmentalization be a result of him trying to use this mental rewrite power on himself? The Walls did symbolize him locking things away from his conscious mind, which might be how his power works - 'lock away' the original personality/emotions behind the artificial one you apply over it.

[Honest Tiefling]

Interesting idea! I mean, he did say he couldn't remember this memory, implying something was blocking it...Perhaps a subconscious application of this power?

Then again, he did just mind control his mom after making her stab his dad and reveal the monster she was. Maybe it was entirely intentional.

[Vinyadan]

I wonder if it has anything to do with Ali having a crush on Menace.

[Honest Tiefling]

I wonder if it has anything to do with Ali having a crush on Menace.

He's a reasonably attractive man who she can talk to about herself as a superhero quite openly and had a vulnerable side only she saw. If he needed the help, he's a bit hopeless.

[Vinyadan]

"Hello reader! Did I tell you that I studied philosophy? Is it clear enough? I just wanted to make sure."

Odd, he seems to have removed this detail (his studies) from his short bio on the site.

[The Glyphstone]

Did the whole Gurwara arc not run that into the ground?

[Vinyadan]

Oh right, Gurwara. We still don't know what he was doing in there.